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Showing content with the highest reputation since 02/28/20 in all areas

  1. 29 points
    in the wake of the changes to the repair system it has come to our attention that multiple people may be in need of a support group to handle the changes we are seeing it become more common in the populace to exhibit unhelpful thinking patterns, such as "it is only when we see our motivations laid before us that we can begin to challenge or change them" - me as such we are assembling a multi-disciplinary support group to help the citizens of wurm it is located at what was the Great Release Bake Off (and still is called this) located near O13 on Release despite this name it is not a Bake Off, however refreshments will be provided activities included: art therapy - join in creating painting and murals to the repair system as it was, allowing ourselves to leave behind the idea that keeping an item at QL98 literally forever was sensible percussion therapy - let the sounds of the bells put you in the now, rather than the what was guided meditation - remember to get your 5 ticks in today. that's literally all of the guidance mindfulness lunchbox construction - subject to the mission still being there, seriously who gets the lunchbox missions done? we will, and we'll all get SB and maybe learn something primal draconic screaming - led by our very own venerable white dragon, an opportunity to Release the pent-up anger caused by this update we hope to see you there
  2. 27 points
    ne and all are invited to attend the slaying of The venerable fat fierce green dragon hatchling. The slaying shall occur promptly at 8pm UTC. The following clock has been provided for those whom may live in timezones that are not GMT, and require conversion. And it shall occur only at the location marked roughly on this map: N13 upon the isles of Release. Turning up elsewhere is extremely unlikely to incur a dragon fight. the bottom left arrow is nearest, it's on N13, I should stop using this image The rules of previous dragon slayings shall be repeated in this one: Alts in local are fine. All those who join in the fight (and are not, themselves, alts) are eligible to retrieve loot rolled from the corpse of the dragon, as well as the corpse itself. All items attained from the dragon will be rolled. All people are advised to arrive early, lest they miss the event. Washing basins will be provided to slow the spread of COVID-19 in this trying time. In the leadup to the fight, all characters are asked to wash and engage in social distancing.
  3. 21 points
    Our current focus is still general balancing of the game and making it more accessible to a wider range of people. And no, that does not mean dumbing it down, as some tend to assume everything that's what any attempt at making the game more approachable is. This encompasses all kinds of tweaks and larger changes that we've already introduced and some we still plan to (most remaining now being related to early game experience) For the past couple years the focus has been on new content, but for the while being we're more prioritizing the polishing and reconsidering some of the already existing features. For a more inside view, in the upcoming weeks you'll see the some more instances of the new UI changes, of which many features will be of good use to more established players as well, a VI post will soon reveal some more details. When deciding on the roadmap to the Steam release of Wurm Online, we essentially had two options - we could've introduced the major changes only to the new upcoming servers, cut off the possibility of a future merge and prevent any influx of players from the Steam release to the current server clusters, or we could introduce the changes to all of it and keep it a single unified game. We chose the second option, because we're not interested in splitting it all and cutting off the older servers already filled with players from the new marketing opportunities (which include Steam), but we were also not happy in bringing WO as it was to a possible wider audience. Wurm will always be a niche game, but we aim to widen that niche, which we really can't do without affecting the meta, and effectively making some not universally welcome changes. This has been a very change intensive couple months and we appreciate anyone sticking with us in this time - this pattern of sudden gameplay changes is not something that'll be seen for long, but we've found it necessary so far. While this depends strongly on the success of the Steam release, afterwards we'll most likely return to focusing on developing more content features, but we're still not entirely happy with the existing feature set and we'd like to tweak some stuff further on - for example, in the near future we'll revisit fishing, as while it's a good system, it does have a fair share of annoyances and drawbacks, and its complexity is a bit much for what it offers in return.
  4. 19 points
    As some of you might have seen, Retro announced the steam page last night/today and revealed that I had been making some screenshots for that purpose. To make my task easier, Retro and Samool helped get me set up with the tools I need to be able to make them, and so over the past couple of weeks I have been traveling around the various servers admiring your guys amazing creations and taking screenshots of the ones that felt especially picturesque. Retro already revealed some of them in the Steam page, but I thought y'all would be interested in seeing the rest of the final ones I came up with, together with what was the name of the deed and what server it was on. Below, are just a few samples. There were 41 in total. Here are a few samples, but if you want to check out all the rest, you can do so from this link: https://www.andrea.net/wurm_shots_fixes/forum/
  5. 15 points
  6. 14 points
  7. 13 points
    We're not yet advanced enough to be able to choose what we dispell, so I think a bandaid would at least be a better option for now. There is no reason a rune should be in the middle or above any enchant. We can just replace runes with no penalty as we desire, so it makes dispelling them to get to a cast below it a frustrating thing. It's kinda weird that nobody though this should be a thing when runes were introduced but hey ho. Same for imbues, and metallic liquid effects, put them AT THE BOTTOM JESUS CHRIST I think best order would be: Enchants as they currently stack, you can control the power for dispelling and improving if you use your head Rune Metallic liquid Imbue
  8. 13 points
    Yup here we are again.... this time its Mining potion bloods! Bring your alts if you like. Again the location is not near the coast. So plan on at least a brief walk down the highway. Found by Almostsolitude. Penned by Explora, Almostsolitude, Dragonshearts, and deeded by myself. Loot reserved Location is south central pristine, inland from the lake. Exact location revealed a couple hours before the event. Location is about P15 http://prntscr.com/rd28w6 See you there!
  9. 13 points
    Rare lantern has been sold and sent, thank you
  10. 13 points
    Hi... This morning I had a surprise, I walked past my Pandemonium wagon and my eyes nearly jumped out of my head. My nice black wagon had turned pink... How did that happen with a few colorful words following. I was somewhat angry really, but seeing I do not like to stay angry, I decided to turn the damn think into a funny display. Barbie's Lil Wagon. I would like to give a big thank you to Mrcoolman who made and donated some very nice dyes for this silly project, if you ever need good dyes made to a specific RGB, he's the man.
  11. 13 points
    Greetings Wurmians! As you know as of midnight on the 1st of March, 2020 (GMT) RMT will no longer be tolerated within the game and will be against game rules. Any information stating otherwise will be considered out of date, reporting it will allow us to correct the matter. We know this change may take some time to get used to but we do expect it to be followed. As such any attempts to sell anything via ingame chat for any money will be met with a request to avoid doing so. Continued actions or behaviour to promote RMT will result with moderation. Posts elsewhere will also be removed for including RMT transactions as available options. As of the 1st of March we will reset the Discord market channel. We'll also be looking at reviewing past sales and threads involving RMT and whether we will take action on them. Any decisions to archive or remove part of the market threads history will be communicated with notice to remove or rewrite with no mention of RMT. Of course over the coming weeks these guidelines will firm up and attempts to sell via RMT will result in instant action, we appreciate you all adapting to these new rules as quickly as you will.
  12. 12 points
    I've double checked the code and there is zero chance that this fix has affected any situations outside of the ones mentioned (moonmetal/steel material, Vynora deity bonus). If you see worse repairing results after the change than you did before, it is purely due to the RNG involved in the repairing - you are not going to see the consistent results when comparing a small amount of repair actions. The quality amount lowered by the repair action is not dependent on the action time, and this doesn't in any way punish repairing items more often, or reduce the usefulness of the repairing skill. We should have clarified that the repairing timers have always been capped at 2 seconds, unless the material bonus brought it below that, or more recently the Vynora follower bonus. This was not intentional, and the two second lower cap was meant to be applied after the bonus calculations, not before, which is all the fix was. Mind you this may not be exactly the same action time that your game client shows, which can differ slightly, but an internal server counter. The bugfix effectively resulted in somewhat of a nerf to some steel, and most moonmetal material items, sure. It did not affect anything outside of that, and if you notice it did, again, this must be only due to the limited time that this change has been live, hence the limited sample sets showing bad luck with the randomized skill checks, which have always been there. I'm locking this thread for now since it's no longer near a constructive discussion, and this post should explain what the change actually was. Feel free to open a suggestion thread and discuss it in a civilized manner if you feel the material bonuses no longer provide enough of a difference after the bug was fixed, and we'll make sure to consider further if those need tweaking. For the record, accusing developers of lying based on anecdotal knowledge you've gained over one day is neither constructive or reasonable. Another thing for the record, we're not going to hold off on fixing bugs that have been there for years just because they've become the meta, or just have been assumed to be intended (which this clearly was not) With the very limited development manpower we have, which is a handful of contracted developers and volunteers, certain things tend to slip through the cracks, but I do believe that the main fault here was us not classifying this as a high priority issue earlier on. We're taking steps to avoid situations like that in the future, and I apologize that the fix has come so late and for our lack of communication on the matter before the fix.
  13. 12 points
    At the moment this high end piece of furniture doesn't really do more than a small barrel with 10 jars in it, and it's only real feature is looking pretty. So I propose the following changes: 1. Allow the vials to be resized in a similar way to measuring jugs (only available if empty, current measure shown in the name to make things easier) 2. Liquids stored in this table DO NOT DECAY, AT ALL. 3. A special container for healing covers only; covers stored in here DO NOT DECAY.
  14. 12 points
    Today I ran into a situation where I couldn't charm my own animal on deed. So I'm sitting here scouring all my permissions looking all over for why I can't do this. Allowed to do spells, allowed to brand, allowed to manage the animal.. etc etc etc to no avail. I go to CA chat to get help, checking and double checking to make sure I have everything I'm supposed to have. Until finally I realize that charm animal counts as "attacking a citizen" when the animal is branded. Now this is extremely obscure, because under normal conditions, why would you ever grant a citizen the ability to attack other citizens. Of course this is freedom, so you can't really attack other players anyway. But still, this was really confusing. However this isn't really point of this post; the real problems boils down to poor messages that do not explain why you can't do things. Just make it easier to resolve permission headaches, which is something that comes up very commonly with new or even veteran players. Suggestion: Update not allowed messages to include all the permissions the user is lacking to perform said action. Instead of [02:15:38] That would be very bad for your karma and is disallowed on this server. It should say [02:15:38] You do not have the 'Attack Citizens' permission so that would very bad for your karma and is disallowed on this server.
  15. 11 points
    Alloys have two major problems: they are difficult to make and their bonuses don't make up for that. Fixing one problem makes the other problem acceptable--steel with its meager bonuses would be fine if steel wasn't awful to make, and steel that's difficult to make would be fine if the material's bonuses were incredible. Personally, I'd gut simple item creation (or make alloy creation its own action so it can have its own mechanics) so that the resultant lumps had more reliably high quality, similar to farming's QLs. I don't know if there's a good solution for moon metals. It feels like they should've stayed on Epic. Is it too late to just delete all of it and disable the forums for a few weeks?
  16. 11 points
    I speak for some, not all, and maybe not even very many (these days), but it was always intended to be travel intensive and finding your way on the map meant using real life skills. Tracking yourself on a map as you move using landmarks, moving out of a forest and into a desert you would see the spot on the map and know where you were. I get it's hard, but Wurm is oldschool and was meant to be this way. I personally, absolutely love manually tracking myself on a map, it's just a good skill to have in RL when shtf, but that's me. I don't care for easy-mode and if a sort of live map was introduced I'd be the first to say I'd disable it on my client. All this said, you should have seen the game a decade ago, the changes they've made to retain players make Wurm look easy-mode these days I was spawn killed on the PvP server a few times by another player when I first started, as a matter of fact, I'm in the OP on the Chaos forums in the Kills and Skirmishes thread. I was barely 2-weeks old when that post was made and they bragged about killing me Don't give up, this game is meant to be unfair early on, forces you to learn from mistakes and reach out to players for help and advice. If you are on a PvE server and see someone in your area, ask for help.. this is one of the friendliest communities you will ever find in a game. You may also PM me here or ingame and I would gladly sort you out with some basic gear, weapon, and shield.
  17. 10 points
    Because that's how it works. Ships don't have 2-mile long chains to anchor themselves in the middle of the ocean and I've never heard of a captain jumping over board to let his compass settle.
  18. 10 points
    Even more Wurm Lore friendly would be the Tower Guards just giving you an ingame coordinate relative to the ingame map, no dots or markers. "The Guards kindly point to a location on your map. You appear to be somewhere around L-5." Anything more accurate then that I feel places Wurm further into the Easy-Mode category
  19. 9 points
    Some colleagues said we should use Microsoft Teams, some insisted on Skype, others wanted to use Zoom... In the end, I took an executive decision and we all logged into Wurm Online.
  20. 9 points
  21. 9 points
    I just find it funny that the answer to a bug is to instead of fixing the actual bug, it's to make chore tasks in the game take longer to force the bug to not work. Make items take damage as whatever they should be if they aren't, it doesn't matter to me, but continually doing things to make playing artificially longer? Why do we keep being the victim of this mindset? It's not even a timer issue, I get 1 second or less repair timers on so many things, frying pans, shields, scale armor, iron and wooden tools, you name it and they all have been losing ql as they always have. Now this change disguised as a buff to repairing skill by "making it useful" is ultimately a nerf to high repairing skill because it's making it worse.
  22. 9 points
    This may sound daft but mine is: [11:39:10] A small finely polished stone used to sharpen the edges of weapons. It was given to me by a player called VonWolf who rescued me on Indy in July 2011. The quality of the stone was 73.73 and to me this seemed more valuable than gold. When I had mining skill of less than 10 he simply seemed like a super-hero. I have kept the stone in my back-pack until this day and it has taken a lot of damage but I don't care- it will remain there for as long as I play Wurm. I could now make my own whetstone with a quality far in excess of this aged, damaged chipped pebble but I will not do that. To me it is like carrying my own lucky charm. Sadly, I never saw VonWolf after September 2011 but I will always treasure the short time that I had being educated in the ways of Wurm with this treasured stone in my pocket..
  23. 9 points
    I LOVE iron fences, but the bricks on the side can look a little ugly and overwhelming when you have a huge row of them. Could we get iron fences (and the gates) without the bricks? Even just the current models without the side pieces. I want a beautiful fenced lawn, not a horse prison.
  24. 8 points
    Finally my Libila colossus is in place:
  25. 8 points
    Rest assured, we're still all working from home and are quite used to it, work continues as planned.
  26. 8 points
    alright alright alright, I did a thing! [11:23:13] <Archaed> wow m8 [11:23:17] <Archaed> come back here and say that [11:23:20] <Archaed> oh [11:23:25] <Archaed> I read "lagston laughs at you" [11:23:27] <Archaed> nvm, carry on Wait, wrong copy paste https://store.steampowered.com/app/1179680/Wurm_Online/
  27. 8 points
    First meteor found on Indy? [14:56:12] A strange rock sent from the heavens, glistening with flecks of pure metal. It is searing hot. Ql: 97.69576, Dam: 0.0. https://imgur.com/u1v3wPn
  28. 8 points
    Idk about you guys, but to me the game feels less intrusive without rmt. Yesterday I had a fellow Wurmian send me drake hide so I could combine it with mine for color. No worries, no hassle. Used it, sent it back, and all good. Its like people arent worried anymore that you may run away with their stuff. Wonder why...
  29. 7 points
    Wurm Needs Pirate Hats. Ahoy wurmian mates! it has been frightfully apparent, to me, and most of my fellow wurmians, for a long time that the wardrobes and closets have been very empty, the clothing options are very limited, to say the least. i believe its time for a change of clothing! i offer a few ideas to kick it off, ive been brewing these for a while and since this seems to be the season of change so i offer these for your consideration. Pirate Hats there are a few possibilities for this one. One option would be to give the adventurers hat the option to use a string and fold the rim a tailor could do it up to three times and every fold is a different look. the second option would be to add new models and recipes to tailoring skill for a Cavalier Hat and a Tricorn (Pirate) Hat. Jesters cap this one will require a model i'm sure but would love to see it just to add some fun i know one of my alts would ware one of these forever Capes someone else has brought this up here is the link to their post i mean we have the item slot for it and its just filling with dust soooo.....? Priest Robes this image i found was perfect for what i was thinking because the robe would replace the chest item be it a shirt or jacket it would be dyable and seen in this image is a long tabard that is worn over and would use the tabard slot, it is cinched with a rope belt the two items that would need a model is the robe and the tabard because the hood already in game would work for the hood for the outfit already. if anyone has any more idea i encourage you to post here. thank you
  30. 7 points
    Quick update as folks have been asking. So we had a rather rocky start to Jackal being in AWS. We picked too small of an instance size to start with. Samool made some server-side optimizations to help with a bit of lag and resource usage. There were configurations required to run a production-level Wurm server that did not show up in testing. This lead to crashes, lag, and more crashes. Jackal couldn't remain up for more than a day without issues. Fixes for all this went out earlier this month, but then we had a rather rocky update last week which resulted in several restarts - not enough time to measure performance and stability of Jackal to any reasonable degree. Our next patch is scheduled for this coming Thursday, which will be over a week of up-time for all servers - including Jackal. That will help us determine if we're stable enough to bring Celebration into AWS. If we're not, then we'll consider other options for the server, such as relocating it on the Hetzner side of things to see if it's hardware.
  31. 7 points
    Sme is actually Samuel L. Jackson. Confirmed.
  32. 7 points
    if you need a journal to get people to go to a rift that sounds like rifts aren't enjoyable and people are avoiding them
  33. 7 points
    Just tested it on the test server and it's changing CR as intended. CR doesn't do as much as you think it does, you'd need hundreds of duels to spot the -2 CR without random noise impacting the results enough, unless you're fighting something that has way more CR than you (champions, uniques) 89fs acc vs 1fs acc, CHANCE in this case is the result of the CR vs CR check if it's at the same second as a swing.
  34. 7 points
    Closed for now. Got bored. Laters. Hello fellow players. Over the next few weeks (until I get bored) I will be traveling to different Starter towns and villages of Wurm offering free crafting services. Now located just west of Lormere, so anyone who wishes to may stop by, say hi, and request items made. Open from 1pm to 7pm gmt daily. Next location is yet to be determined. Now offering a beer stein of wine to visitors thanks to Brattygirlsback I will set up a small crafting area near whatever settlement I choose to visit during my stay. How long I stay will depend on the demand in that location. If you want me to visit your servers starter deed let me know in the comments below. I also might set up at an active player deed, If you wish just tell me a bit about the deed and what kind of services you are hopeful for. (4 active members minimum) List of my abilities https://www.niarja.com/universes/online/clusters/freedom/skills/Morrowen
  35. 7 points
    So basically instead of fixing the issue with the code, you offer a potential "solution" that creates more problems than it solves. One of the very reasons I skilled repair is that my timers would be as low as possible. I didn't want to spend 50 seconds repairing a cart, I wanted to spend 3-4 seconds. And I also wanted (just like every sane wurmian) to have as little ql loss as possible. Now why should people bother grinding high repair skills again? What is the point of having 90 repair? What's the point of having 95 repair if my timer will always be 2 seconds for any item? And the quality loss. I'm just wondering if this is just an artificial way of stretching out a game that's already insanely long in its timers compared to any grindy game in existence. More dmg on tools, repair nerf, spend more time re-imping items, repetition, repetition. And the same argument that "anything under 2 second bypasses the repair rule" is similar to the bug where people once used a Mooring Rope (i think it was mooring) to lead 4 animals at once instead of 4 individual ropes.. Well that got removed a few years ago after years of use. Then what happened? We got a halter rope addition that did the same thing. One step forward. One step back. We didn't move an inch. On Epic, anything under 2 seconds also is treated as "1 second". Chop a veggie in 1.4 seconds and queue up 7 actions? It's not a 9.8 timer. It's a 7 second timer. 1 second for each action. Decide how you want to treat timers once and for all and fix the code. As wurmians we got used to a lot of annoying bugs over the years. Paying customers shouldn't be your beta testers for steam.
  36. 7 points
    The best spot to plant that tree has probably changed in the 20 years since though since the first tree has grown expecting the light to be a certain way. If you just put a second tree in where it should have been then theres every likelihood that either the grown tree will hamper the growth of the new one or that the new one will eventually steal light and water the old one depends on to stay healthy. In essence its a whole new landscape and where to plant or not plant a tree should be carefully considered and planned. Also, jsut what IS the new vision that the game is headed towards? Can we please get some clarity on that because we've had over a decade of what seemed to be a similar vision that we're all used to and now in 6 months it seems y'all plan to turn that all on its head to some new plan we can't imagine or depend on.
  37. 7 points
    this is a terrible change, i dont personally use these materials but ALOT of folks do, and diligently maintain there equipment, what is the point of repair time reduction runes now, vynora's repair speed bonus, or using steel or moonmetals over basic iron now. Best i can tell they take the same amount of damage as iron tools if your repairing often, to me it appears your now PUNISHING the ppl who are diligent about tool repair and maintenance. I do agree that tools should take SOME damage from repairing, but this is overkill. If anything you should just lower the threshhold for damage from 2s to something like 1.5s Thus ensuring that items will still take modest damage, but not negating the time bonuses from the above mentioned things. while at the same time increasing the resistance to damage on moon metals at least. This would be much more balanced in the variety of situations.
  38. 7 points
    Abuse? Use a material that is supposed to have reduced damage (seryll) have high repair skill, and be diligent about repairing before damage is significant is abuse?? Mandating that every repair action is 2s is abuse. It completely negates the supposed benefit of seryll, and negates the hours upon hours spent on grinding repair skill....
  39. 7 points
    Black bear rugs making a carpet for my Lib priest. http:// http://
  40. 7 points
    This is another one of those "PVE suffers from PVP rules". On Freedom, can we please have the option to drop tents of all kinds on our deeds? Tents make great asthetic items and it doesn't seem logical that members of a deed are not allowed to place a tent within the village. At the very least, the mayor ought to be able to drop them.
  41. 7 points
    if the task is so horrible people are willing to throw money at it until it goes away it highlights a problem with the task imho
  42. 7 points
    It might be confirmation bias but I see a lot of "we're removing this, don't worry we'll fix it later" from this management group. Meanwhile things aren't fixed from years ago. How about catapulting bridges? Any progress? Maybe fixing server travel issues once and for all. Hows that UI coming? How about just letting things, eg. 2s prem, sit until you have it solidly worked out and ready to be replaced (not we're working on a replacement system, but don't hold your breath), as did not happen with the war machine revamp? How about not changing the hell out of things without fixing old bugs and problems? It seems, so much, that we players are asked to shoulder the burden of poor planning and implementation. I myself, am near the breaking point. There is SO much useless work and time wasting in Wurm as it is, I'm not sure I want to continue supporting this management team and it's decisions, when it seems to just get worse. I mean, maybe just come clean, would you rather the OG players just sthu so you can get on with your master revamp of the game for this expected Steam audience? Brand loyalty only goes so far, what happens when you've burned through all that and a new set of people are asked to start shouldering the burden? How long can this model last?
  43. 7 points
    Why? All this does is add another weird mechanic obscured by the game itself and make it harder to understand. If I have a 20QL item it should be a 20QL item. Not a 20QL item that acts like a 43.6QL item. That's just... why? If the point is to make the starter gear lower QL so players can upgrade them more easily with lower skills, there's much better ways to do that. Scale the math up on their use cases so lower quality items function better. This is a really sloppy change. While the follower changes make sense overall, it might be worthwhile to consider adding 10% characteristic gains across the board to all characters. With the changes made, Vynora followers get punished while everyone else gets bonuses. Instead, if you add the 10% characteristics skill bonus to everyone, then add these changes on top of what already existed, everyone ends up happy. By doing this change, you've essentially closed a "window of opportunity" that was used in order to skill accounts to where they are. Players from this point forward are forever slower to gain characteristics than those who had the Vynora bonus before. Instead of punishing people who want to play your game now and rewarding those who have been playing since the start, you should focus on trying to make it more appealing to play now than it was before. This change is an example of making the game less rewarding to play at the current time, and furthers the gap between accounts who have been playing forever and those who are just getting into Wurm now.
  44. 7 points
  45. 7 points
    have an old iron saw made by a dear friend, gave it to me so i could help him spam planks somewhere around 2011. It's the only saw I've used since then. made a bunch of rares and supremes, but I'll never replace this one.
  46. 7 points
    The premium player count graph seems to like the changes so far. The post announcing the end of RMT was made January 31. Granted, the graph is tiny so it's hard to estimate, but it looks like we gained 400 or so premiumed accounts this month.
  47. 7 points
    I was wandering the wilderness when I came across this curious object Now, you know what it is - the title gave it away. That's an Epic Structure, the temple to be exact. Not exactly Epic by any means. And I get it, it's a temple to the mighty error bag, a relic of our past. So I'm not going to ask for someone to model and texture a whole temple, all I want is a little visibility and reward for using something like 1000 materials Something like this Yes, yes that would do it nicely. Truly now it would be an Epic Structure
  48. 7 points
    Anything outside the game, they repeated it like 100 times. So no bitcoins, gummybears or dirty socks included.
  49. 6 points
    Shhh iron gets nerfed in the end if we complain too much. Like it will melt in a forge like wooden items.
  50. 6 points
    Yes, this had been clarified in an earlier official post, the database is the same even if there's no merge at all, so no duplicate names.