Feedback request on fence stuff

[joedobo 1,187]

What purpose would flying and specially jumping serve other than to circumvent protections the players made to secure their areas? Travel flying would be cool because of the change of view. Perhaps we could go faster then ground travel too.

 

Is it just me or do both Rolf and Budda appear to be prioritizing a technology change of proper collision detection for fences over the security of player areas? Currently fences provide 100% guaranteed protection on PvE. So unless these suggested new deed guards instantly wiz-kill anything unwanted its not going to provide equivalent protection. I'm also concerned about the cost of the guards. I doubt they will be free which fences are.

 

Being able to make a non-passable under all circumstances fence is a good thing for PvE. I actually feel upset when I see Budda call it a "hack" and then comment on how fences should become something players have to plan accordingly. Specifically, research the maximum height a toon could jump and make a wall slightly tall; Further, put some kind of razor-wire-like protection on top. Sorry, I'd prefer to just set my on deed fences to no-pass. Such a feature is not a "hack", its content that the customers have come to appreciate and rely on.

 

 

[Budda 2,675]

Being able to make a non-passable under all circumstances fence is a good thing for PvE. I actually feel upset when I see Budda call it a "hack" and then comment on how fences should become something players have to plan accordingly. Specifically, research the maximum height a toon could jump and make a wall slightly tall; Further, put some kind of razor-wire-like protection on top. Sorry, I'd prefer to just set my on deed fences to no-pass. Such a feature is not a "hack", its content that the customers have come to appreciate and rely on.

 

I was specifically referring to how it is handled in code, and it is a hack job.

[atazs 965]

 

You raised the sub rates in Wurm and now not only are players NOT purchasing coin from the shop like before, they are purchasing more and more from each other which only hurts your income.

Also, other currencies are rising up in Wurm because there is less and less silver.  I just purchased an 80q chain set for ONE SLEEP POWDER.  This is only going to get worse!

 

I stopped buying prem for real money after they upped the price. I only bought prem for real money before that for 3 years, not anymore 

 

Imo the enclosure rule was a nice idea..give noobs a little protection when they are starting out. We all know the enclosure rule has been abused to hell.

Just get rid of it and go with what works..Deed it or Lose it it's simple and works.

 

This. Just as the salvage rules, this needs to go too. Just increase body str to bash things on freedom to like 30+ and its solved. 

Edited January 3, 2014 by atazs

[Arkonick 557]

Just want to point out few things guys who are clueless other than wurm online.

 

Wurm Online isn't the only sandbox anymore with this type of construction, terraforming, pvp and pve with mobs stuff.

 

EQNEXT Landmark  alpha due in feb 28 march comes beta and in april or may comes the full launch. If it even gets a price tag it will be far lower than wurm online and more affordable to play. It will have way more powerful construction tools so there is no waiting for a dev team to add new walls and stuff cause you can make it your self as well as sell them for real money on the station store and make way more money.

 

Keep trying to run off new comers by making it harder for them. And this is where they will run. Most of you never heard of or barley even know what Landmark is it's the next generation  sandbox for real.

 

Keep wanting to put more pressure on people and soon you will see a smaller dev team than we have now cause as people flock to better things older things get less profits. The smaller your profits you have to start cutting  cost and yep your art team starts to lose there job.

 

So go ahead kill enclosures. While you at it allow flying so people can grief new comers. Allow jumping fences so people can run in and steal on none deeded new comer land and premium players who just can't afford the extra silver increase to keep a deed going each month. Go right ahead and support ideas that are more game breaking than you could even imagine.

 

If Landmark didn't exist I wouldn't even be really remotely concerned but the fact is it does and it is real and it is around the corner and coming. I'm worried for Rolf not about the rest of you people.

 

Yes I plan on playing Wurm online while I also play Landmark. But If it replaces every thing in wurm I will likely stop throwing money down a sink hole and invest all my time in Landmark instead.

 

But for last time go ahead try to cut the head of the new comers. Make it more expensive for them than a game like landmark. Force them to have to buy deeds and pay monthly fees just to keep it. Allow players on a pve server more ability to sneak in and steal and raid as if it was a pvp server.

 

Be warned Rolf... Most your fans are not watching your back or pointing out the obvious but I like to help the little guy just as much as I support the bigger guys. On a side note you need to give a discount for 6 months of premium time it has no discount. 12 months does but 6 months don't. SONY online does you should as well. You never had to worry before but with Landmark around the corner they brought the competition to your front door.

[Shidoni 84]

Big fat no to being able to bypass enclosures in this manner.  The griefing that will ensue will be unbelievable.  I have a small portion of my perimeter fenced and touch perimeters with other players on all sides. No one else can use it.  Why shouldn't I be able to?  I am technically paying for it.  With this suggestion, anyone with a high enough whatever skill can jump my fence and be a general nuisance.
I also think the enclosure rules need to find a way to be bolstered, not removed.  It's absolutely ridiculous that outright bullying should be tolerated on a non-PVP server.

[Syls 11]

I like the idea of deeds with huge dirt walls and mine entrances being taken down a notch, maybe we will see more raids happen on the PvP servers if something interesting like this could happen. But you shouldn't just be able to hop on an animal and fly infinitely. There should be a limit to how far the creature could carry you and it should just drop you after its tired.

 

For example, lets say there were giant eagles that we could tame/dominate/charm, we would do something like right click on the creature and then chose a fly or hang on option and our toons would hold onto the talons as the bird flew. Then you could use the go here command in the pets commands to make it carry you to the destination. If I'm not wrong then the chance the creature follows your orders depends on the level of tame its at so that would help limit its use to those with higher skills. If the creature couldn't carry you all the way you would just get dropped and take some fall damage when it reached its limit, this would make it risky to use the flying if you weren't sure it would go the whole way and add some excitement to it every time you flew . I think it would be nice if there were a few creatures that could carry us, varying in combat capability and carrying capability for different situations or people of different skill levels. Maybe even have a karma option that costed a ton to summon a friendly eagle spirit for a minute or so that would carry you once, but not fight. Some creatures could even be ridden in different ways, birds you hang onto the talons of, some you could mount like normal then take off for a while, ect.

 

If creatures are ridden too much in a given amount of time they could get a status debuff called Exhausted, which would make them un-ride-able until they are rested and also take away from their combat ability. This way its still something very useful, fun and cool, but that doesn't get used 24/7 for mundane things like going to pick up some things from the local market . It would make players save their beasts for quick escapes, dropping into deeds on raids, ect.

 

I think it would also be cool if there were drawbridges or gates in wurm that could only be opened from one side, this would give a good reason for players to fly into a deed because the number of people that have flyers should be low so them charging into a full deed alone would be near suicide, but if they had a goal of getting a gate open so the rest of their men could charge in then it could be worth them risking their precious creature and their gear . Right now if you wanted to fly into a deed you would probably have to fly back out quickly because you would still have to bash the mine doors or catapult the longhouses and dig down the dirt walls for your other people to get in :/. As it is right now we could potentially see some hit and run attacks by the higher skilled with these new creatures, or they could go in and try to chase away or distract' those repairing the walls being catapulted.

 

As far as templars defending against flyers, just add a new type of templar that uses a bow as their weapon. The price for templars shouldn't go up because a new feature is added, 3s a month is steep enough :/. Just have the archers stop chasing at the deed boarder and shoot those inside the perimeter. I think that would make things a lot more interesting. This way we add new raiding options as well as a new defensive option.

 

Maybe the riding limit wouldn't be so cool for freedom where people aren't fighting, but hey we already have creatures that are on epic and not freedom, why not some flying mounts that are available on freedom but not epic? Those could be made to fit the freedom style of play much better and we would gain a nice new end game goal for both sides of Wurm and since creatures cant cross severs you could still have the PvP geared creatures show up on Chaos instead of the PvE geared ones.

 

I like this as an end game goal because it gives the player something valuable and tangible, rather than a spell that you will probably rarely use , while at the same time adding new tactics and features to the game. It will also be interesting to see kingdoms fight over a creature they want to capture because of how rare they are or on freedom see hunters compete to find and tame it first. This would encourage PvP on epic by drawing people from opposing kingdoms towards the same goal and there would be some friendly competition and maybe even a market for selling the flying creatures on freedom.

 

As for jumping, I'm okay with that too. if your deed is right up against a mountain and enemies could jump in then let em. or if they are going to make a dirt platform to climb up on then jump in, sure that works too. They still risk fall damage and the one that jumps first is going to get swarmed by guards and die XD. It still gives them a chance to get in without the use of a flying creature which is nice and I think it would be fair, if flying gets added you should have jumping too. For freedom though maybe add the ability to limit jumping within your deed perimeter, something like "You are about to leap into the air when a guard stops you and says "Sorry, acrobatics are banned within city limits unless you have a permit" XD.

[Marshlander 188]

I'm very, very happy that the sticky fences bug gets a fix. Living on a mountain deed, I have died numerous times to that bug, where I couldn't escape by being tied to a fence outside my deed and getting eaten alive, with my guards looking on from over the fence. It happens really often given the right circumstances (slopes and fences).

 

Better collision-detection would be great, only that some things would still need to be passable (some light bushes). How many of us will have to clear up their clutter because they won't be able to just walk through their BSB's after such an update? This needs forewarning and forethought, or it could end up pissing off a lot of players.

 

Jumping sounds good, I'm still not clear where it would be useful to have except when trying to pass fences. Creating jumping puzzles, perhaps? The devs would need to look at all permissions again in detail, and consider where useful limitations are. I'd very much like more "realistic" hurdles than invisible wall mechanisms ("oh, you can't do that here for some unknown reason"). Perhaps jumping fences would only work with a practically empty inventory?

 

Maybe we'll need some new kind of "deedish" mechanism, like a woodcutting or mining claim, which would only disallow people to cut or mine within it's confines (unless they are added to the claim ofc) and perhaps protect against bashing.

 

I'm very meh'ish about the flying. Would be great for taking screenshots, though .

 

All in all, I'm all for the code to get smarter, even though there might be a painful moment of adjustment somewhere along the road. Just make sure that most consequences are being addressed, and perhaps that some other rules in place get a good review along (e.g. permissions).

Edited January 4, 2014 by Marshlander

[Atlas 363]

Something I am hoping for with the addition of collision detection on character models--something that would *transform* PVP--is being able to simulate a traditional Viking shieldwall. This was really the only form of infantry combat during the period of time that Wurm emulates. If implemented correctly it would help to reduce the OP 'gank' bonus (behind shield coverage angle) even if outnumbered. Small group fights could be determined by team discipline rather than a whole mob moving forward and backward like liquid while trying to swarm one target at a time

[Alec 730]

 Small group fights could be determined by team lag rather than a whole mob moving forward and backward like liquid while trying to swarm one target at a time

 

Don't forget Wurm lag.

[Loaded 5]

without even reading all the comments (im sure there are some good ones) ill add my input

i think that its not a bad idea but the ramifications need to be thoroughly examined and pinpointed!

is it possible to add "Zoning" so that certain area's that are zoned (enclosures) are impassible ?

[Hectar 1]

As a victim of the falling into wall glitch, I am all for the update to "patch" the hole, pun. I think that with a game that lets you do literally everything, it is strange that we can't jump or ride flying creatures. I believe this would also have to change the spider mobs to allow them to crawl over the walls. I like the proposed changes.

+1 to flying and jumping.

[Eobersig 1,006]

No. No. No, Rolf.

 

Terrible ideas. Would have been good as a joke on April 1st.

 

You might as well remove all walls and fences from the game, far easier to do and has the exact same effect.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

No to anything that lets my animals get stolen or killed, or my walls breached when that was not my intention.

[Jasith 2]

Yes to all. Jumping wouldn't be a big issue unless you have a steep slope and a short wall at the bottom of it, flying over would be great. After all if someone jumps over the walls they're stuck inside until they bash em. On freedom that means they can loot to their hearts content, but they can't get back out. Problem solved.

 

On Epic it would add another dimension to deed defence if you have to hold the gates/walls at the same time as someone flew over the walls and assaulted you.

 

Just make jumps non-silly in their height, and make flying hard and something you can counter without epic archery skills. I especially loved the glider option proposed earlier, maybe in tandem with a flying mount of sorts.

 

For the flying mount, make them either reasonably common or breedable please. It would be a terrible addition if all it lead to was a fiercely guarded mount you might see in raids every now and then. Otherwise spending their lives locked behind steel mine doors from an on deed entrance.

[Jovan 20]

well. first of all. i think the glitch should be fixed, but i don't believe you have to break current mechanics to do so. flying is a silly idea. and honestly, i think other issues in the game need to be addressed before introducing a whole new dimension to travel. take a look at how much more you can do with ships, for instance.

 

then once all that is sorted. MAYBE you can make dragons ride-able and flyable. and perhaps add airships for those who cant access a dragon. but they should be a rare and special thing. perhaps requiring as much material and time to create as 5 Caravels, and require insane skill level to start, nevermind actually use. we're talking end game ultimate goal for master level players.

[Yeesha 9]

I love the idea or being able to jump and fly. Surely, there have to be measures, that people don't get stuck and maybe some thoughts, how more griefing could be prevented and property and deeds can stay protected (without an extraingamesale of an archer spirit guard. The existing are too weak already anyway for that money monthly, they wont stop any raider or prevent any crime).

But all in all: Those are great ideas. Would make movement in Wurmlands much more free and organic.

I could imagine rare to tame mounts (like vywern), eggs to find in nests (eagle maybe) to get hatched and bred for better traits. Or flying rugs like those meditation rugs, baloons, airships like Zeppelin, maybe a levitation spell as well. This would have to be balanced, eg. how high and long those items can fly, if over sea or deeds on mountains.And maybe be skillbased (new skill or a mixture of prerequisites).

I think, most of all recent doubts in this thread are about protecting deeds. Flying and jumping should not lead fences,walls and ships ad absurdum. People spent some time to build them. Furthermore it should not force people to have a deed, as living on undeeded land gets unsafe.

Also it could make roofs more attractive, not only as an aesthetical aspect, but as measure of protection .

This aspect could make Wurm much more attractive for new gamers as well and make Wurm more competive against upcoming sandbox games like (L*** is feu***, Bla** Des***,Gree**on***). Just to give some hints without advertising.

[Sir Arowhun 473]

-1 to flying. I like how fences block movement, otherwise they would be pointless. I want this game to be gritty and medieval, and I don't want to see people flying around like butterflies, even if its with a spell. I think it would be fine, however, if people could fall off of cliffs in order to get over a fence, but this should only be on PvP servers. Of course, once you fall into an enclosure you would have to bust your way out. As for jumping, I see no need for it. Being able to fly or jump over walls with a high skill requirement is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard for this game. Walls are the only things that prevent griefing, and its supposed to take a lot of time to bash them down. This time gives people time to respond to the griefers before they cause damage, and on deeds walls are meant to slow down raiders.

 

Making flying have a skill requirement would to nothing to prevent griefing. If people wanted to grief, there are plenty of high leveled accounts they can buy for 200 euro or so, so its not like they have to work hard for it.

 

However, flying mobs is something I'd like to see, but the archery system would need to be improved so it would be possible to shoot them down. Dragons flying out of pens would be great. Dragons flying and maybe a few bird mobs that can be shot out of the sky would be fine, but I don't want to see flying mounts. Flying mounts would change PvP in ways that I don't like, and it would make it too easy to break into enclosures to grief things. The same goes for airships, not mentioning the fact that the airship idea is a lot like the gun idea in my opinion: it is way too modern for Wurm, and it ruins the setting.

 

The combat system in general needs some serious improvements, and I think that improving the combat system so that it is more engaging should be your priority, not giving people fairy wings to fly around and grief up enclosures. 

Edited January 5, 2014 by Sir Arowhun

[KanePT 699]

-1 to flying. I like how fences block movement, otherwise they would be pointless. I want this game to be gritty and medieval, and I don't want to see people flying around like butterflies, even if its with a spell. I think it would be fine, however, if people could fall off of cliffs in order to get over a fence, but this should only be on PvP servers. Of course, once you fall into an enclosure you would have to bust your way out. As for jumping, I see no need for it. Being able to fly or jump over walls with a high skill requirement is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard for this game. Walls are the only things that prevent griefing, and its supposed to take a lot of time to bash them down. This time gives people time to respond to the griefers before they cause damage, and on deeds walls are meant to slow down raiders.

 

Making flying have a skill requirement would to nothing to prevent griefing. If people wanted to grief, there are plenty of high leveled accounts they can buy for 200 euro or so, so its not like they have to work hard for it.

 

However, flying mobs is something I'd like to see, but the archery system would need to be improved so it would be possible to shoot them down. Dragons flying out of pens would be great. Dragons flying and maybe a few bird mobs that can be shot out of the sky would be fine, but I don't want to see flying mounts. Flying mounts would change PvP in ways that I don't like, and it would make it too easy to break into enclosures to grief things. The same goes for airships, not mentioning the fact that the airship idea is a lot like the gun idea in my opinion: it is way too modern for Wurm, and it ruins the setting.

 

The combat system in general needs some serious improvements, and I think that improving the combat system so that it is more engaging should be your priority, not giving people fairy wings to fly around and grief up enclosures. 

WoW, if you can spend 200€ just to kill a few horses and bash a few fences in wurm, will you consider sharing the wealth?

You talk about gritty and medieval, but can you get more gritty and medieval than a small raiding party jumping over the enemie's wall to invade?

Oh wait, wurm pvp is about killing npcs, i keep forgetting.

[Briarstone 6]

maybe a pegasus for a flyin creature

[KhalDrogo 25]

A BIG HELL No to Flying -100 

 

Khaldrogo

The Governor

New England & New England Sky Reach

Celebration

[Tazinsky 93]

Really would not like to see flying in the game, would ruin the whole aspect of wurms complexity that attracted me to the game, being able to travel and such, plus people who like private deeds by buildings walls its not fair on them if people can just fly in,   jumping i don't mind, i understand you need to update the collision system to add further upgrades to the game but i think that would be possible without the need to add flying.  that should be kept just for the gm's (which i seen enki flying! )

[Ricowan 199]

I like the idea of jumping, sometimes it would be nice to be able to look over something that's blocking your view (and there's no way around to get a better view).  It might even be useful to jump while moving, in the case where a slope is preventing normal movement and a quick jump would get you past that.  These are nice-to-haves only, not must-haves.

 

Jumping over fences seems like a bad idea.

 

I'm not even going to touch the flying idea.

[KanePT 699]

I like the idea of jumping, sometimes it would be nice to be able to look over something that's blocking your view (and there's no way around to get a better view).  It might even be useful to jump while moving, in the case where a slope is preventing normal movement and a quick jump would get you past that.  These are nice-to-haves only, not must-haves.

 

Jumping over fences seems like a bad idea.

 

I'm not even going to touch the flying idea.

Well, what in a freaking video game is a must-have? Were multi-story houses a must-have? Were the new graphics must-have?

Nope. But they made the game better.

[viruskiller 105]

Just want to point out few things guys who are clueless other than wurm online.

 

Wurm Online isn't the only sandbox anymore with this type of construction, terraforming, pvp and pve with mobs stuff.

 

EQNEXT Landmark  alpha due in feb 28 march comes beta and in april or may comes the full launch. If it even gets a price tag it will be far lower than wurm online and more affordable to play. It will have way more powerful construction tools so there is no waiting for a dev team to add new walls and stuff cause you can make it your self as well as sell them for real money on the station store and make way more money.

 

Keep trying to run off new comers by making it harder for them. And this is where they will run. Most of you never heard of or barley even know what Landmark is it's the next generation  sandbox for real.

 

Keep wanting to put more pressure on people and soon you will see a smaller dev team than we have now cause as people flock to better things older things get less profits. The smaller your profits you have to start cutting  cost and yep your art team starts to lose there job.

 

So go ahead kill enclosures. While you at it allow flying so people can grief new comers. Allow jumping fences so people can run in and steal on none deeded new comer land and premium players who just can't afford the extra silver increase to keep a deed going each month. Go right ahead and support ideas that are more game breaking than you could even imagine.

 

If Landmark didn't exist I wouldn't even be really remotely concerned but the fact is it does and it is real and it is around the corner and coming. I'm worried for Rolf not about the rest of you people.

 

Yes I plan on playing Wurm online while I also play Landmark. But If it replaces every thing in wurm I will likely stop throwing money down a sink hole and invest all my time in Landmark instead.

 

But for last time go ahead try to cut the head of the new comers. Make it more expensive for them than a game like landmark. Force them to have to buy deeds and pay monthly fees just to keep it. Allow players on a pve server more ability to sneak in and steal and raid as if it was a pvp server.

 

Be warned Rolf... Most your fans are not watching your back or pointing out the obvious but I like to help the little guy just as much as I support the bigger guys. On a side note you need to give a discount for 6 months of premium time it has no discount. 12 months does but 6 months don't. SONY online does you should as well. You never had to worry before but with Landmark around the corner they brought the competition to your front door.

what did u smoke to think that game will have lower price tag than wurm?

[Torgrim 403]

So, the news in this thread can be summed up as: 

 

3D collision detection is needed for bridges to work properly. It is a huge job to implement it and thus bridges and 3D collision will be in the far future. Oh, and by they way, 3D collision means that you will also be able to jump (and possibly fly), because otherwise you would be stuck even more often than you are now.