Feedback request on fence stuff

[bluemoonrising 7]

-1 for flying outright, and while I dont see it necessary, jumping OK, but not over walls. To the new players I see, there is a remarkably high "quit" level already. To introduce an effective killing off of enclosures will not help any more people get 'into' the game, before deciding i they wish to pay to play.

 

 People who do get past the patience needed through the first hours would basically be being told to pay up or else. I would not now be a 3 deed owner if I hadn't had that first few months of a small hut and few tiles to try the game out, before choosing to pay €32 for the premium time and then deed form.

 

(Edit) in fact the Homepage of Wurm states "So many of us want a home on the internet. Wurm will provide you with that! You can build your own little home anywhere in our lands, for free!" Not going to be so true if adjustments such as this are added, it would have to be changed to have a small hut with with no land or prospect of trying much for free!

 

 

 Yes I can see why people want it from the existing player pool, its something new and fun. However I would personally say that the new additions of caravans, bridges and more customisation of items/character would lend itself better to increasing player numbers leading to longterm players paying.

I really cannot see the odd player getting stuck in a wall and enclosures (which you can deed over if you want) are worth the potential losses.

Edited January 24, 2014 by bluemoonrising

[TABs 5]

Am i reading this right that when implemented, even before actual jumping/flying would be implemented, a person can simply fall over a wall if there is a steep incline next the the wall? i am imagining people building "towers" just to fall over walls or into other houses. if it not deed they could just build a second tower to get out or if it a building, they could just use the balcony.

 

this will be very very bad on freedom. greifers paridise.

 

also, sounds like cms and gms would have fun with people who "accidently" fall into a deed/building and are unable to get out on their own.

Edited January 24, 2014 by TABs

[NeeNee 855]

I agree with all this. I just started and while I am premium already, I don't have a deed yet. However, if Wurm is going to turn into a griefer's paradise like every other MMO, I'll likely not stay. Having an off deed house/enclosure is a risk because someone could deed over it. If people could now leap over your fence, then that moves from 'real estate wars' to basically noncombat PVP. I know at least I am not looking for that kind of experience, at all.

-1 for flying outright, and while I dont see it necessary, jumping OK, but not over walls. To the new players I see, there is a remarkably high "quit" level already. To introduce an effective killing off of enclosures will not help any more people get 'into' the game, before deciding i they wish to pay to play.

 

 People who do get past the patience needed through the first hours would basically be being told to pay up or else. I would not now be a 3 deed owner if I hadn't had that first few months of a small hut and few tiles to try the game out, before choosing to pay €32 for the premium time and then deed form.

 

(Edit) in fact the Homepage of Wurm states "So many of us want a home on the internet. Wurm will provide you with that! You can build your own little home anywhere in our lands, for free!" Not going to be so true if adjustments such as this are added, it would have to be changed to have a small hut with with no land or prospect of trying much for free!

 

 

 Yes I can see why people want it from the existing player pool, its something new and fun. However I would personally say that the new additions of caravans, bridges and more customisation of items/character would lend itself better to increasing player numbers leading to longterm players paying.

I really cannot see the odd player getting stuck in a wall and enclosures (which you can deed over if you want) are worth the potential losses.

[leaf 283]

I gave up on the forums a few months ago but this is just too much.

 

If you allow people to jump over low fences, okay.  I can replace my low fences with tall.  Very ugly and about 4 months of work, but at least there is an option.  Shame to make all those low fence models completely pointless though.

 

If you allow people to fly over any height of fence then I quit.  There is no protection for my deed at all no matter what I do or how hard I work.  I've worked years on it and will not allow random people to fly in and F it up with no way to stop it.

[Tarkie 139]

-1 to flying and jumping

 

That will make pointlessto ride a horse and even ships if you arent moving lots of heavy things. I'm an old WoW player like many of us and u all know it started just like that on WoW as well. Now u dont even need to reach the highest lvl on wow to be able to fly on a mount.

 

I have to agree with Leaf on this one, if  jumping will allow random ppl to pass my low fences, yeah i will replace them with higher ones. As ugly as it would look, at least it would also be realistic and will give me an option to keep my place safe.

Btw that also means we will need buildings with roofs that we can actually replant flowers/grass to keep our animals safe and fed. (wich will also screw the wiev of animal farms we are passing thru)

 

About the enclosure, i think it is important. Not only for non-premium players but also for us, premium players, as well. Because not everything we have are inside our deeds. well, ok most of the important things are inside but our farms areas and animal farms are most likely not inside the deed. so those places will become free fighting skill + meat areas / free fields to harvest / free trees to cut down etc...

 

Besides all those issues, i do believe that wurm has more urgent needs than flying. please take a look at Suggestions and Ideas on forum.

[Teggs 55]

Please no flying players. 

 

The reasons haven't changed since the fast-travel ideas of the past: Wurm is to be experienced, not skipped.  Flying means no foot or horse or even boat travel (except for mass goods trading) with all the route-picking and danger involved, no road building or terrain considerations necessary, no sense of a large world (The maps are small, flying straight from one point to another will show this).  On top of this, limiting it only to players with high body control would be a slap in the face to everyone else.  Suddenly, you are a chump unless you can fly.

 

The fence/house/enclosure issues raised are at the heart of Wurm.  Being able to protect your personal space is vital, just as it was and is in real life.  If there is no security for the player's core achievements in the game, high quality tools and equipment, crops and animals and such, few will want to risk putting time into the game. 

 

Remember the debacle that preceeded the creation of the Freedom Isles?  This has similarities it would be helpful to explore.

 

- Teggs

[Miztu 2]

Flying? Subscribed.

[Heroic 30]

Maybe if someone jumps into others enclosure, lets drain their life like as it happen on water (as long as he is there, start getting wounds which cannot be bandaged, and can die unless not leaving the place quickly). Houses are still protected by their writs.

[Schneehamby 4]

Well, the first time I logged into Wurm it felt kinda strange that you couldn't jump. But in the time I've spent playing I never really missed the ability. I don't think I would like seeing people bunny hopping around the world, would definitely  ruin the atmosphere I guess.

 

And what would jumping be useful for?

Jumping up hills instead  of climbing? - Meh, not a fan of...

Jumping over fences? - Why do we build them then? For some guys to run an obstacle course? O.o? Don't think so...

 

 

And flying? Yeah... Nope, not a fan of it either. 

It wouldn't only screw up lower fences, it would make walls and high fences useless too.

 

What would the benefit of flying be?

 

Moving faster? - We've got horses and large carts and the new wagons, which can possibly go faster than the other ones currently.

How fast do we want to go? From north to south in a few minutes? - Yeah, that would definitely make the world seem bigger... >_<

 

Or flying over fences and walls and buildings? - Then, what's the point of building walls and fences in future? 

Only decoration? They are build for a purpose, to keep people out of some places. Not to be an obstacle course for some flying guys.

 

 

Overall I can't see any good coming form jumping and/or flying... I think Wurm is good without both.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Schneehamby

[Tarkie 139]

Speaking of speed, let me say a few words of my observations about world of warcraft.

 

When it first came out, most of the things were hard to get and took damn lots of time.

For example couldnt even ride a horse before lvl 40 and those were only increasing the speed for 40% (100% speed horses were at lvl 60 -max lvl-  and needed 1k gold wich was hard to get at those times), there was no flying mounts, only short of taxi mounts. There were no teleportation to dungeons, u had to got there to enter that dungeon. (only warlocks with two helper could teleport the players near him). Even rare items were valuable, and epic items were really hard to get.

 

So ppl started whining as usual and worst part is, Blizzard actually listened to those whiners.

 

ppl asked for speed, bliz added flying mounts,

ppl asked for speed, bliz added meeting stones,

ppl asked for speed, bliz added summoning stones for mass teleporting in raids and Portals from town to towns,

ppl asked for speed, bliz added extra speed on flying mounts,

ppl asked for speed, bliz added dungeon finder,

ppl asked for speed, bliz added raid finder,

ppl asked for speed, bliz nerfed the lvl requirement for mounts,

ppl asked for speed, bliz increased experiance gains / added recruit friend and get 3x xp...

 

Im not gonna explain step by step but let me tell u where they ended up.

   -Most ppl don't even know where the dungeons are located. Hell with the dungeons, they dont even know any place but the main citys!

   -Even Legendary items arent hard to get anymore. Epics are worthless so to speak or very easyly accessible

   -You can own and ride max speed flying mounts even brefore reaching the max lvl.

   -Every person i know who plays wow has at least 3 alt chars cuz they are all bored with main char and dont have anything to do with them. they do weekly raids / pvp cap in a day or two and done for the week.

   -We have a discussion about bein able to skip tutorial, they are skipping most of the maps and all the quests in it when leveling.

 

So as you can see speeding things up doesn't allways end up nicely as expected.

 

I am working on weaponsmithing and its one of the toughest skills in Wurm Online. But im not complaining cuz i choose to lvl that skill and actually even like it that way.

Today some ppl are whining about movement speed, want nerfs on ws and a few other skills including characteristic skills etc.

 

From my experiences, i can tell ppl will never stop complaining and there is a big example ahead of you. I would hate to see you making the same misstakes.

Improving the game is definitely a good thing but while doing so u might end up with a big mess if you dont pay attention of your steps.

Wurm Online is one of a kind, pls dont ruin it.

~Regards~

[knotknight 1]

What about Makeing a landing pad/launch pad of sorts and have it managed to friend allies etc ,k kind of like a building is managed. Could only take off and land on said pads and apropiate permissions. This would get rid of haveing people just land where ever but still allow flying. Also make it impossible to fight while on said flying mount.

Just a thought ... so maybe it is doable .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thinking inside the box from a distance on the outside nearby...

[Geddingwood 98]

From my experiences, i can tell ppl will never stop complaining and there is a big example ahead of you. I would hate to see you making the same misstakes.

Improving the game is definitely a good thing but while doing so u might end up with a big mess if you dont pay attention of your steps.

Wurm Online is one of a kind, pls dont ruin it.

~Regards~

 

This right here.  I ran a MC server for 3 years, one where I was the sole developer of all server plugins.  I did my best to make the server unique to all other MC servers and to give people what they wanted when they asked for a new feature or effect.  But all I did was end up killing my server by driving away the people who didn't agree with the masses.  Numbers started to plunge and then even the people who were getting what they wanted started to leave.  I can foresee the same thing happening to any game that makes mistakes in its development.  I think adding flying would change the nature of Wurm and make it a much less friendly game.

 

As I and many others have said, making this change would literally destroy any new player influx, as it would become even harder to protect the initial lands you try to build on.  I think a lot of people here forget what it's like to be new and have no skills.  It's a LOT of work to build a house, and even more to build an enclosure.  To take that away from people simply because of the "deed it or else" crowd's desire to steal and destroy everything they come across would be pretty shortsighted.  

 

To be frank, ALL I'm concerned about with this idea is the loss of enclosures.  If they can add it without removing enclosures or making anything less secure than it already is, I'm all for it.  But if it means the end of enclosures, I don't think any new feature is worth that change.  

 

And to all you people who keep saying "Don't like it, deed it"....your arrogance and ignorance really needs to be slapped out of you.  Not everyone has the money.  Especially with Wurm's price hike.  (I'm premium now, but I won't always be, and I think it's pretty s***ty to screw over the free players in a game that advertises itself as a free game.)

[Tathar 48]

I like the idea of flight, and I do believe it would be a good addition to the game as high-level content.  However, I think it would be necessary to prevent landing in and interacting with enclosures.  I've thought about potential solutions over the "break" and come up with a couple ideas.

 

Option 1: Designate landing zones

 

This option is based on a "whitelisting" approach, where you can't land or interact with stuff on the ground unless it is specially marked as a landing zone.  Landing zones could exist as a clearing in a field (with no trees in the way) or as a special type of flooring on the top level of a multi-story house.  This option would make existing enclosures safe from fliers without modification, and the next option could be used in conjunction to implement a permission system allowing only certain people to land on a landing zone.

 

Option 2: Designate no-landing zones, or restricted landing zones

 

This option is based on a "blacklisting" approach, where you can land anywhere where these features aren't present.  I don't have specific implementations to offer for this option, but it would be different from full anti-air zones and could be used as a permissions system for landing.  By itself, this would require modification of enclosures, so it would need to be implemented a number of months before flying is introduced so enclosures could be properly secured during the transition. 

 

Option 3: Designate anti-air zones

 

This option could already be implemented with existing features, but acts as the most restrictive implementation.  Guard towers could prohibit enemy fliers (or just shoot them down) or deeds could restrict flying to approved people.  I personally don't like this option, but it's there. 

 

Option 4: Make the game recognize enclosures as such

 

This one would require more work than the others, but it would allow the code to protect enclosures rather than relying on the game rules.  Given that every valid enclosure follows a pattern of surrounding land by a perimeter of non-passable fences and gatehouses, and with gatehouses having at least a certain density (based on visibility from all sides), this could be detected by game code.  This check could either be initiated automatically or require an action by a player standing inside the enclosure to flag it for checking.  Obviously, if the developers can make this work, it's easily the best option of the bunch since it minimizes restrictions on flight. 

[HexD 214]

I don't think Wurm needs "flying". Flying would make a mockery of the hard work players have put into deed defences (especially mountable mobs). The idea kinda works for PvE servers but not for PvP. Mainly because you can't take mobs cross servers so that only leaves two PvP server use of such creatures, none of the kingdoms are going to take such a rare creature into actual combat for fear of loosing it and being mocked in the forums and if they do and are successful the other side will claim it's too strong and the nigh on endless tweaking begins trying to please all parties (which won't happen). If it really has to be added then it can not be rare and should have high requirements (70+ Taming, 50+ BC, 50+ Strength and 60+ Mind logic maybe even some Soul too). It should definitely not be a mount for the average player. As for the ability to fly from magical items and spells or crafts? Only thing I can think that might work are gliders, could be a fun thing to go and do and wouldn't really impact PvP in a positive or negative way that much. Should definitely not be any magical spells or items that provide such an ability.

 

I just read through most of the other posts and a lot of people were saying how a flying mount would grant access to their deeds, a way to solve this is with deeded tiles emitting some sort of aura which would stop a flying mount in its tracks on the deed border producing an event message stating "The ghostly figures below strike fear into the beasts heart, it will not proceed any further in that direction" or something to that effect (only on PvE servers), while on PvP servers this wouldn't be a problem since the guards would presumably just start shooting the beast down with arrows. It is do able but as I said the mobs themselves should be uncommon not rare and the requirements very high, effort should be rewarded. Cant keep catering for new players who want to jump right in and be as good as a players who have invested many many hours into their characters. If you think about it in actual terms of combat, it only takes 3 arrows to take out a horse, 6 or so on an armoured horse so 10 arrows to shoot a player out of the sky where they are likely to plummet to their death or very near to it seems fair game to me. A Mandatory minimum of -20 health for being shot off a flying mount with a multiplier the higher you fall from.

 

+1 to jumping/hopping. Hopping over a low wall/fence makes sense and makes using tall/high walls more of a secure choice. Back to the PvE server issue simply blocking the ability to jump walls on deed with at least 1 guard solves the problem, an event message stating "A guard notices you attempting to jump the walls and knocks you back with a warning" Do it again and the guard aggros the player, really not a big issue.

 

I think I've some how started to talk my self into thinking flying, done carefully, could be kinda fun.. (only mounts (breed-able ones) and gliders though)

[xtigermanxx 6]

Why not just make it so deeds and so on have a "magical barrier" that prevents flying into their borders?

[Malena 2,854]

In other MMOs I'm a big fan of jumping and leaping. Loved it in GW2 while doing the secret puzzle areas, loved it in WoW to climb up mountains and get into unfinished areas. To me, jumping was a must. I remember trying GW1 one time to test it out and being disgusted by the fact that you couldn't jump and not even wanting to play the game after that since I felt so restricted. 

 

HOWEVER...

In Wurm not being able to jump has never been an issue for me. In fact it makes the game charming in some odd way and gives players a new "challenge" in how they design their routes of access. It's what makes people want to build roads (otherwise they'd probably just jump up a hill?). It's what makes us feel safe behind our fences and walls. I love knowing that the fences I put up ward off both beasties and other players. I think I'd feel very insecure if I knew people could just jump over them. And hell, I'm "just" a freedom player. I can't imagine how much more strongly I'd feel if I was on a pvp server. Bringing jumping would just ruin part of the charm of this game for me personally. And yeah, this coming from a player like me, who loved it in other games!

 

So a big fat -1 to jumping from me. (and the same for flying as it would pose the same problems)

 

However, +1 for fixing the "getting stuck in the fence bug". It's a real pain in the butt, so glad you guys have made a fix for it! 

 

And folks no need to bash down walls, simply log off and back on and you'll be unstuck most times. 

[Ebriel 53]

+1 fix the bug.

 

-1 Jumping/Flying  

[thenewcndo 528]

Lets do it! +1 to Flying

[Ballad 79]

Jumping? Flying?

 

Here are my 2 cents about them, along with a big -1.

 

I own several deeds, and I plan to deed some more land.

 

For those deeds, I already have countless keys to carry with me, all those pens and gates need to be secured, not all are suitable for 1x1 gates, and I don't want to turn my deeds into an army of small ugly houses.

I also have keys for bsbs and fsbs ON deed, because I don't like outsiders to peep through my underwear, or even worse, lock them, making me waste time with support tickets and wait for a GM to unlock my closet.   Basically, an outsider can't even pee on your deed, but they can lock your storage??

 

I have already encountered issues when someone broke into my enclosures, through the on-deed (regular) gate and killed animals on the farm (farm had 1 tile on perimeter, the rest was on deed); and of course, our lovely GM Head Enki considered it "a crime by opportunity" and did nothing to punish the griefer.

 

How could a jumping/flying over fences ability help people to feel secure anymore even on land they pay for? I'd rather go for an option to make (regular) gates un-passable on deed for non-villagers/non-ally members, even if those gates were unlocked!, unless there is a special permission set for them. (which reminds me how dumb the actual permission system is, you either can assign a role to a village or give permission to "friends", but not to individuals, which makes it damn hard to keep a balance, I have added as "friends" people I don't know very well, but if I want my trusty friends to sail my boats, every friend has the same option, for example).

 

Wurm claims to be a free-to-play game; every single person here started as a f2p, and tried to live on his own in wild for some time, before they decided to deed or join an existent village.

If there will be no more "legal enclosures" to protect their stuff, all those new players will be highly discouraged to try the game for longer. Keep in mind that not everyone can easily make friends or easily feel like joining a community (village) where they don't know anyone; some people like solitude and also like to try things on their own before they decide they want to carry on with a game or not.

 

On the other hand, flying ... the only viable option I see for flying would be some travelling paid system for those who want to reach a point or another on the map fast enough, without the insecurity of riding/sailing to a certain destination.

 

But flying mounts should never belong to / be controlled by any player; they should be a "kingdom" belonging, and therefore the fee for using a flying mount should go to the kingdom. Not to mention the maps aren't even large enough to be in need for such a travelling system. Yet lazy people are everywhere, and they could use a flying mount.

 

Don't try and turn Wurm into an archaical version of WoW; many of us are here because they disliked WoW.

 

I'm not sure how people on PvP servers see things on their side, I'm not - nor I will ever be - a PvP'er, but trying to add more conflict and drama on Freedom can't bring anything good.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Ballad

[Ravenclaw 37]

-1 to flying, it make much needed rules impossible to maintain, even deeds won't be safe.

 

additionally imaging getting D/Ced while flying....  you log on dead with you mount trapped on somebodys deed.

 

as for stuck on fence, flying /jumping is not a solution, it not every day people get stuck on a fence, and all you need is a better 'stuck to unstuck' feature as existing one don't work.

[Redi73 13]

flyin +1.. should be fun.. but not in pvp

[Schneehamby 4]

Hm... I don't think even the "fixed" flying points or routes some people mentioning would be that beneficial.

 

So what whould they be good for? Traveling long distances without the need for mounts or boats? For the lazy ones?

Yeah, why not - if you don't like them, you don't have to use them... it's only an alternative way for traveling. You're Sure?

 

I guess it would be kinda like all the fast travel systems in current mmos, talk to a guy, jump on a mount

and wait till you're where the mount will drop you. But they are designed to get you somewhere faster,

at the cost of the map feeling smaller and less populated when everybody's flying over empty lands.

 

So if it's faster then the other ways, why use the "old" system like mounts and/or boats? - meh

 

Or if it's slower then the other ways, why pay for a flying service? 

Maybe because it would fly without you having something to do, like you could be afk?

So you could choose between traveling fast with a horse and have do it yourself, or traveling slow 

with a flying-mount-thingie but don't have to do anything till you're at the target destination... 

 

Would such a system encourage afk playing (even) more? - can't say for sure... but possibly?

 

As it stands now, I guess a flying system would make the world feel smaller and emptier when no one 

is traveling around the "old" way. 

 

Or only a few when can fly, because the service costs coins, or you need high skills? 

That would punish new players and people who can't spend (more) money on wurm. 

Sounds like a lot of potential for sad people.

 

I'm still not convinced that flying (and jumping) would be beneficial for wurm.

 

Maybe there's one way to integrate it right without screwing up the whole game,

but there are for sure multiple ways to do it wrong and some of that will even come

with irreparable consequences.

 

The more I think about it, the bigger the uneasy feeling gets...

Edited February 21, 2014 by Schneehamby

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

Actually..  All one needs to do to regulate flight is keep a database of landings/take offs.  So whenever a player lands it logs their name, position and time.  If someone flies into an enclosure and loots it?  A GM has access to the flight data (kept for 48 hours) and can quickly search to see if someone landed/took off from inside the enclosure by searching with reference to the coordinates.

The issue with the enclosure law is where the burden of proof lies.  In many cases theft has occured, but it was not against any rule in particular.  A more concise set of rules are needed to cover grey scenarios (EG : Player A builds an enclosure, Player A goes inactive, Player B waits for player A's house to decay, Player B builds their own home and claims the enclosure, Player A returns, inside the enclosure with all of Player B's hard earned items up for grabs and a lot of his old ones too!  Instant nightmare as there is no right/wrong party, only a right way to act.)

[Pinky 35]

-1 Some people like big deeds and privacy.

[AAetius 133]

As most of you know you can fall down into a fence or wall section and become trapped. We have the fix to this already, closing the hole at the top of the fence but it isn't ingame yet. However, it also means that you will be able to move over fences and stone walls if you can get high enough.

. . .

 

Thoughts? This would have quite an impact on the game but flying and jumping is sort of interesting features. And we need to fix the getting stuck in fences/walls bug eventually.

 

Falling into a fence or wall section and having to relog should never happen, ever, in any game. It's awesome that there is a fix to this as of December, it's concerning that was are still talking about it in February.  Please implement this as soon as possible.  Being able to jump over a fence because you dropped enough dirt on one side seems silly, but in a more realistic way - which is good.