Feedback request on fence stuff

[hoof2000 278]

I am fine with jumping and flying, actually I love the idea. I live on freedom so it does not bother me if someone would be able to jump or fly over my deed walls since they are not allowed to anything on my deed, so hey... what  I am afraid of are the bugs which eventually will come along side those new features. So I would prefer more bug fixes BEFORE tons of new features are added or even add new features piece by piece and not in one giant patch. I am all up for what is planed in the future. Just my 2 iron coins..

[Kegan 3,926]

I'll put it this way then; If the goal was to give players flight, we wouldn't need new tech - flying is already possible, GMs have that ability in game.

Well for me that is what i want to avoid i don't want to see just random players floating around in the air because they cast some crazy spell. I guess this is more of a personal thing but what i envision for flight to be okay with me is for a new creature that can fly being added to the game that you can capture and keep. Now this creature would take a lot of care to keep but it could be done. I would think that it would need a high taming skill to tame it to put the gear on it to even ride it. That coupled with the BC that was mentioned to ride it too. Now if flying was put in like this for me it would be okay but if you are just going to add it in with some crazy spell or artifact and players are floating around then it is a no for me to add flying. That all said then sure if he wants to make the dragon fly and be rode too then fine but i don't want to just see them as the only creature to fly.

 

I can just see this new thing being added in so that only the elite group of players will ever have access to that i don't want and i never want to see anyone fly without them being on a creature/animal of some kind. I am all for some fantasy but lets not get crazy with the spells and powers.  

[Sir Arowhun 473]

+1 to flying mobs (/me imagines dragons flying around :0)

 

I think being able to fly over fences by falling over them would be problematic for some deeds on pvp servers, but maybe this could be a good thing as well. If you fall in, you still have to break your way out.

 

-1 to flying mounts, unless they are really hard to get. (Like riding dragons)

Edited December 31, 2013 by Sir Arowhun

[Budda 2,669]

Well for me that is what i want to avoid i don't want to see just random players floating around in the air because they cast some crazy spell. I guess this is more of a personal thing but what i envision for flight to be okay with me is for a new creature that can fly being added to the game that you can capture and keep. Now this creature would take a lot of care to keep but it could be done. I would think that it would need a high taming skill to tame it to put the gear on it to even ride it. That coupled with the BC that was mentioned to ride it too. Now if flying was put in like this for me it would be okay but if you are just going to add it in with some crazy spell or artifact and players are floating around then it is a no for me to add flying. That all said then sure if he wants to make the dragon fly and be rode too then fine but i don't want to just see them as the only creature to fly.

That's the way I see it happening if it does, and I think this is the sort of thing Rolf meant.

[Gaeron 551]

Depends on the mechanics of flying really.

 

If its effectively anti-gravity, ie VTOL, hover, unrestricted movement with any vector then absolutely not.

 

If its actually flying then... .maybe.

 

This means :

• The flyer needs a suitable cleared area (runway ?) to get enough speed to achieve flight
  
• The flyer also needs a minimum safe cleared landing area, landing amongst trees should be painful
  
• Flight like swimming requires stamina, run out of stamina and you have to glide to a landing.
  
• Normal flight is a forwards vector but banking costs no extra stamina.
  
• Gliding reduces stamina use.
  
• Hovering increases stamina use
  
• Will there be thermals/winds?
  

There are probably a whole bunch of additional components to this would constrain flight further. Making it so flying creatures are not VTOL jump jets also mitigates some of the entering deed issues, yes they may get in but its possible they'd have to bash their way out.......

 

So far only Dragons have been mentioned, the highest of the high end creatures in the game. With this I'd expect more "mundane" additions to the bestiary. Pegasii are an obvious one, maybe Rocs or Tolkien style Giant Eagles. Different creatures have different levels of difficulty and thus different BC requirements.

 

Finally, if flying is allowed and we have thermals/winds then how about ballooning?  I think most of the skills are in place, perhaps the heater could be fuelled by wine or some such. 

Edited December 31, 2013 by Gaeron

[Kegan 3,926]

I don't like the balloon idea for me that is to steam punk and not in the theme of the game. I am on board for the creatures but not a fan of any mechanics or spells it is just to far out of place for the game in my eyes.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Kegan

[Raykow 39]

if flying is going to be added, we need a balloon or airship.

[Klaa 4,872]

Theres also plenty of flying critters one cannot ride, I don't see a prob making them breedable.

 

Perhaps even some kind of falconry mechanic.

 

Be nice to have actual flying mobs in game; though, eaglespirits come close.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Klaa

[Pollo 146]

Jumping will add to the exploration portion of the game +1

 

Better collision detection would make the game feel new

 

Flying can be cool, maybe only allow landing at deeds that allow it and/or personal/ally deeds (not even allowing landing on undeeded land).  Would also be interested if others could see flights to and from starter deeds in Freedom (perhaps with a weight limit, just the person pretty much).

 

We are waiting for a lot of other things in the game, would prefer to get fixes and the other new things that have been announced rather than 2015 Wurm 2.0 bringing out things that have been laying around for years.

[Cerberus 247]

Flying? extremely high body control to severely limit griefing. maybe 50? also a reason for people to stop being lazy, have a purpose to develope thier toons passed "good enough"?

[Atlas 363]

Thanks for clarifying the post Buddha--without which there would have been pages and pages of wasted feedback based on incorrect assumptions.

Your game *needs* collision detection for character models and structures--it will positively improve PVP, immersion, and initial new-player retention.

Your game *needs* collision detection to be taken seriously and maintain competitiveness in an increasingly growing landscape of crowd-sourced sandbox MMOs

You dont need jumping or 'flying' and its likely that implementing the two would cascade into many unpredictable problems and consume a huge amount of Dev resources

Good Luck!

[Delakar 277]

Because everyone has seen the word 'flying' and stopped reading there. I'm 98% sure that Rolf was talking about the ability to ride dragons, and having dragons that actually fly.

We have no other ride-able creatures in game with wings, so you can't fly anything else.

 

So is there any chance that Rolf can confirm/clarify what he means? 

 

Having a limited number of rare creatures being able to fly, and be ridden, is a whole lot different prospect than anyone with 40-50+ BC being Superman....

 

Is this flying more supposed to be "controlled falling" with it only working from a certain height? Is it going to allow jumping over fences?'

 

He's asked for feedback but given just enough info that everyone is confused and making assumptions. Further clarification is essential for people to give actual opinions on the situation.

 

(on another note, is this a swedish translation thing? does 'jump' in swedish translate to 'fly' in english? are we all getting worked up over a typo?)

[scottfree 32]

hmmm, jumping?, flying? .. dont really need em, couldnt care less about jumping, but i wouldnt complain about a faster way to travel about, especially if it came with advantages like not being so affected by winds or gettng my #$#$@!@!!! knarr stuck in cave canal entrances .

 

Inroducing the ability to fly on a dragon seems a bit bloody pointless tho, there are what?, 4 or 5 left in the entire game? .....  any new dragons will be swiftly killed as usual

 

 

So let us suppose we get some other flying creatures ... who should fly em?

 

..  imho anybody w a reasonably achievable level of BC .. why .. because wurm is a game that gets easier as time goes by, anyone w say 50 BC already has a lot of skills, including some at master level most likely and already has little trouble doing many things in game so why give em yet another advantage.

 

As for the griefing thing, and for that matter problems w legal enclosures .. How about a 2 tier system of Deeds ... tier one is free and limited to control of a small area of land, and one per player, but has usual deed settings for permissions such as ability to pick up items on deed, attack/tame animals, terraform, bash walls/fences,  land gryphons etc.  There would be no advantages such as reduced damage to structures, templars etc.

 

the tier one deed would be kept alive by monthly payment of a modest sum that could be made fairly easily by selling items to the token, no payment after a month, deed disbands.

 

tier 2 deeds are the usual type we are all familliar with, no changes needed.

 

so no more legal enclosure stuff, deed it or lose it, end of story

[Valdor 1,426]

Yes, I agree that implementing collision detection into Wurm would certainly make it more interesting and more realistic. It also seems to me that having this technology in game would probably open the way for many other additions that may rely on such a feature. I think it makes sense to add it and I for one think that it will enhance the game.

 

Jumping and flying on mounts though... hmm... on one hand, it's tempting. The flying on dragons, for instance, would be potentially something quite amazing. What worries me is that there are so many ways that this can ruin the game that I am instinctively worried about it. I like Wurm the way it is right now, with all its ground transportation. And since it works already, then messing with something that works is a bit scary. Still, if we don't take some risks, the game won't evolve, right? I suppose my biggest issue would be HOW flying would be implemented. Since this thread is very limited in information (as I assume the developers are still looking for ideas), it's hard to say whether it would be worth it or not. But if we decide to put it in, I hope we have a very in-depth conversation on how to implement it and how to limit it.

 

Jumping, on the other hand, once we have things to jump over, only presents security issues with enclosures. While deeds certainly wouldn't be affected much, enclosures would simply become free game. Granted, it is realistic. But having a player log into the game only to find out that his crops are gone because someone hopped in and harvested them, may lead to some players leaving unhappy.

[Marlon 303]

I am happy with moving on a 2D plane, flying and jumping sounds great, until it's implemented and a whole box of foul things are uncovered.

+1 to the fix for fence stuck though, it happens very often to me, my deed is very hilly.

 

Thanks for the post Rolf, hopefully you will skip over the slight immature posts/mild attacks and read deeper into the guys who put time and thought into writing an intellectual and meaninfgul suggestion (or counter suggestion)

 

A few guys have made some valid points, which almost sways me towards flying, but it would just create an ever larger divide between newer and old time players, not to mention the rules/writs/deed violations that will follow that no one thought about. Secondly, once the flying skills are set HIGH, where they SHOULD be, some of the usuals on the forums will start to cry about it being too hard again, and the suggestion forums will fill up with those "MAKE IT EASIER" posts again.  

[Elen 1,013]

Why not handle flying skyrim style ? Buff champ nogump -> orbital flight 

[JBlak 80]

Inb4 Parkour Online

[Protunia 735]

BTW... I would make a BC AND STR requirement to ride and control such beasts and would lean to more STR than BC.

[Atheas 17]

Add jumping skill into game and trampoline as a tool for skilling it. I wanna to have a "Parkour Master" title in Wurm. Flying skill sound cool also but you can get deadly damage if you fall.

 

But to be honest i was hoping to get fridge for meals from Santa Claus.

[Kyrmius 188]

"Thoughts?"

 

Here we go again.

 

I have seen you write this way before Rolf. I already know (or am willing to bet) that you have already decided you are going ahead with Jumping and Flying. This is just your way of telling us to "Brace for Impact"

 

Well for that Thank you Rolf. We got a warning order from you. That will help some.

 

But the bugs and exploits this will introduce... and the fun the Greifers will have while the bugs and exploits get fixed, IF they all get fixed... well, I don't see this News as good news at all. Deed Security will go right out the window for weeks, maybe months, while this "process" unfolds. So many other projects started but not finished, so many other features that need updates, or revisions....

 

Please do Jumping first and Flying later, if for no other reason than to limit the potential bugs so they can get isolated easier. As far as falling down inclines and getting stuck on walls... every time I got close to this happening it was because I as a Player wasn't paying attention, in other words I wasn't using Situational Awareness. The problem is Players, not the Game.

 

 

There is nothing more I could say right now that You would want to hear.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Kyrmius

[Derp 310]

Climbing over walls isn't anything new really, I remember thinking in my first raids "why can't I just climb/jump over this small wall?". But whether it's actually a good idea or not is something else...It'd make them useless unless there are severe limitations or a lengthy timer/penalty

 

I don't think flying on dragons is much to worry about, it'll be a novelty you might see in a youtube video one time. Noone's even led a dragon into pvp let alone ridden one (unless I seriously missed something - epic not included as no idea about that) while doing it, so meh.

 

Common flying creatures...Hmm it'd have to be -1 unless Gaeron's post about proper flying is implemented. Can imagine dozens of people hovering about towns vtol style on giant griffins or something. Eew, just no.

 

This is a medieval simulator, not WoW.

 

+1 to less buggy walls, +1 to new collision system (depending on further details e.g collisions with other players would have to be discussed). But if this all about the occasional newb getting stuck in walls, I think maybe it's better to have gms continue to sort it out rather than make weird gameplay changes that go above fixing the problem.

 

I think I know how this went, enough bug reports came in about people getting stuck in walls and it became an annoyance, but while looking into fixes, a "ooh wouldn't it be cool if..." struck and flying was born...Might be fun, maybe just take a step back a second and think if it really fits...

[joedobo 1,187]

Go over fences....My only fear is that somehow mobs will end up sneaking into my secured deed area. Rolf please respect that some of use don't like mobs and fighting. Wurm has the potential to be lots of different things and forcing everyone to be a hunter isn't as good an idea as providing opportunities for players to purse their own style.

 

Enclosures....I would instead include a small deed for free with premium. Wurm doesn't seem to have a problem giving out many gold coins a month through traders (all traders combined). Nor is it an issue to give out many coppers or even silvers to players using the "sell" feature. Why should it be that much of an issue to allocated 10 or 20c worth of land for premium members.

[Fooligun 591]

I think the issues outweigh the benefits of such changes personally, especially with griefing and PVP servers.

[khatanka 317]

OK, many people like to fly. Then we need no more roads, bridges, boats, wagons, carts, horses and other No more running out of stamina or die by swimming. Flying to valrai and other sound like funny

 

But is this WURM???

[redchance 11]

could you just create a save file for the last 10 tiles a person walked on and revert them back 10 tiles instead of the unstuck function in game.