Feedback request on fence stuff

[Klaa 4,872]

Interesting enough to give it a try and see. Though Im figuring this is merely the "mulling over" phase before any actual design work occurs.

 

Are dragons being considered for flying with air-to-ground attacks? That always seemed like something that would really help to buff them.

[Oreo 5,793]

i dont even

[KanePT 699]

Well, as for towers, if you get collision on them, add working doors please... My token is inside a Tower.

But again this is another example of stuff that needs to be thought out before the big changes.

We have been playing on a certain number of assumptions, if you suddenly change all the rules but don't change stuff to work with those different rules, not only will you have a bunch of broken stuff, but you'll have a bunch of unhappy players.

 

I for one have that tower on my token, another that if it had collision would block access to a vynora altar i have on a island outside my farm. So on so forth.

[Anothernoob 102]

Better collision detection is a good thing to be added and I guess that it would open the road for new more engaging combat systems to be implemented unless it backfires in the form of extra lag and extra bugs (for some time). Nevertheless, it is one of the things that it would be good to see them added someday.

 

A few ideas that could make flying on Freedom griefer-free even for places that are not protected by deed rights and writs (just to make the small chance of it happening as low as possible):

1. make it have a big cooldown between uses if it is an ability (take-off fly land= 1use), and making the mounts refusing to take off too many times per day and refusing to land on deeds and buildings. That would make it more difficult for a supposed flying griefer to get in, destroy/steal and leave.

2. A limit in these actions would allow logs of such actions to be stored and used by GMs in case that a skilled troublemaker decides to abuse this feature.

3. Deactivating all actions instead of the ones that are needed for flying during a flight could also happen in order to turn a flying player into the most peaceful and innocent creature in wurm . No way to initiate combat against any animals on the ground, only against flying mobs that may be around.

4. Particle effects (like mini whirlwinds of dust) could stay at the spot of the landing/takeoff for 24h. This way you won't even need to fear that someone will get in, steal something and go away without you noticing him.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Anothernoob

[Kadore 926]

If allow a KoS all except those you choose I'll support it, I'm a mean old man with a lawn fetish.

[Coastis 321]

Most of my concerns have been brought up already but i just wanted to add that....

 

...Dragons should be the only thing that can fly.

[Kegan 3,926]

I think it would be cool to go around and see some of the deeds from the air but getting that all to work and allowing for anyone to move around in the air like that seems like a big job to get right. 

[Lieutenantice 0]

No to flying. Tired of imaginary games that go way to crazy with things. Jumping is ok, as long as it isn't unrealistic.

[The Moidart 36]

So many variables associated with implementing flying.

Perhaps a control measure to alleviate the deed intrusions could be designated tile amounts for take off and landing, much like a runway, length depending on creature flown?

That way we could grow a tree or place a structure as a tactical barricade to fend off against overhead raids?

Self firing or automatic (guard) activated scorpio, ballistae and catapult?

Being able to kill/tame an opponents flyer when it is grounded near or on deed?

Lots to think about.

 

I'm not really sold on the idea yet, but can see how it could work if done right.

Jumping....Hmm, maybe not.

I've been stuck in a fence a few times and just don't see it as a major issue, especially not enough to justify radical game changers.

 

Plenty of other things I'd rather see first.

 

Who's going to poll this one?

[Kegan 3,926]

I don't think a poll matters most of them are not even homered they still do what they want anyway they just pick out the people that they feel are important and go with them in the posts it seems anyway, lol

[Amadee 1,543]

For another perspective on this:-

 

Doing this change would mean better collision detection and physics system. Collisions we have currently are very simple, line on the ground where a wall is - you may not pass this line (which explains infinitely high walls). New systems means 3d collisions, shrink-wrapped to models instead of the "that's close enough".system we use currently. This would lead to collisions on things other than fences and walls - guard towers (which has been wanted for a while), mobs having collision boxes, etc.

 

All of this has been planned for a while, but is still in the very early stages - hence this thread asking for input.

 

So are you saying that in order to implement these changes you need to implement flying?  What does this have to do with flying?  If I'm reading correctly the majority of the negativity in this thread, including mine, is about flying.  

 

When I woke up this morning and read "flying,"  I was quite sure that December 30 must be some kind of Swedish version of April Fools Day.  Was sure it had to be some kind of misguided joke.   Now I see some people in this thread actually saying they want flying.  /boggle.  I'm still speechless and having a real hard time trying to say what I want to say without getting banned.  Others are saying it better than I can but apparently it's going to be ignored anyway.

 

edit..ps:  I include wall & fence hopping in this.  Bad idea.  Way bad.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Amadee

[Timmehexas 3]

I say -1 to people flying as it would require too much of the dev's time. There are SO many things I would rather see them introduce. Furthermore, I personally cannot see it fitting the game.

 

On the other hand, I give a massive +1 for flying creatures. This would make archery significantly more important. Furthermore, it would add some danger to those who live in fenced off deeds providing some incentive for people to hire guards.

 

Also: +1 to jumping and massive +1 for better collision system.

 

Just brainstorming, but what if enclosures were coded in for Freedom. It could be used similar to the "Add to Building" feature. After finishing a building, right click a tile right next to the building and select "Plan Enclosure". Then the person goes around and selects all the tiles they wish to enclose. This creates fence plans where the person must build the fences. This would allow dev's to prevent people bashing down the fences and stealing animals. If jumping is added, the person would not be able to lead the animal out unless one or more of the fences were missing.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Timmehexas

[Kadore 926]

It will all be fun and games until support is full of I'm locked inside a deed and cant get out, I have no way to jump back over etc.

 

This will soon lead to no longer being able to have all fences on a deed locked ... or some new rule as it always seems to end up like this. 

[zorako 178]

You do not need to slide down a slope to get stuck in a fence or a house wall. You can get stuck on flat level ground.
 
Travel along a fence checking if it needs repair can get you stuck, usually if there is a tree on the tile and a lag spike hits. You get taken from where you are standing on the tile and placed on the tile border where there just happens to be a wall. And you are stuck. /stuck rarely if ever works. Only quiting , waiting a few minutes and then reloading client and logging back in fixes it.

 

You can also get stuck on a disconnect/reconnect, many times the reconnect sends you 1 to 5 tiles away from where you where and not a tile you had recently visited either. Again closing the client , waiting a bit and then reloading the client and logging back in works.

 

Flying is not going to fix this bug.

 

I realize that connecting from a client in Sweden to a server in Sweden will not give you much experience in these problems that many players far from the server experience.

I hope that you rethink your fix and restudy this problem. We dont really want another fix like what happened to enchanted trees, where a griefer put an enchanted olive tree in front of a house door making it impassable . You could have studied the problem more and realized that merely making an enchanted tree passable like a street lamp, or some of the other player suggestions might be better for most players than just allowing it to be chopped down.

[Tikki 65]

no to flying and yes to fixing the many bug's in the game

[NESGamepro 350]

Yes to jumping, but not over fences.

 

No to getting rid of off-deed enclosures, that would be horrible.

 

No to people flying magically, mounts maybe but not until there is a way to stop people from landing in off-deed enclosures, on deed it could be a permission setting.

 

No to all of this until more important things like permissions and bugs are sorted out.

[watkins141 994]

i believe i can flyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Valdor 1,426]

Jumping: very much needed, every modern game should have it and players get annoyed if it doesn't.

 

 

Out of sheer curiosity, with love and without trolling. Why do some players feel that jumping is so important? As it stands right now, there is nothing to jump over, nothing to jump on, nothing to jump to. If jumping existed, it would only be for the sake of jumping, with no purpose to it. The only thing that comes to mind is how people would start just jumping like crazy in PvP to confuse opponents, like they do in many other games, making that type of combat look quite silly.

 

Mind you, jumping is part of life and we don't always jump for a reason. Little kids jump for joy, for instance. So, is the arument for jumping to bring more realism to the game? With colision detection, jumping will become a possibility and since then there will be things to jump over, it may make more sense. Still, I never fully understood how jumping would make Wurm better.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Valdor

[Ayes 3,715]

Before discovering the wonders of Wurm building and enhancing the environment around you I had for some years played another building game called Active Worlds. Once the subscription was paid you could build anywhere that free land was available but to claim it as your own you would put down flat panels as ground cover. When this was done no other person could build upon this land but the account that these panels was tagged with.

 

When I arrived upon Golden Valley in Wurm I shortly realized that the same situation was in effect here with the concept of fencing in the area you wanted to claim as your own homestead, so this was always the top priority to me. Fence the area in and then have the security to know that all the work you did inside that area was now secure from others actions. I could then plant with trees the deforested area, grow crops and so forth.

 

Then when I finally decided to pay to become premium and journey into the great unknown wilds of the Freedom server (now called Independence) I followed this same action to protect my starting spot there. After a short time I decided to place my own deed and the first thing done was to fence off the perimeter area to protect all the work that I would do there and have some privacy to learn how to develop my deed further.

 

Now many years later I follow the same line of thought by walling in my perimeters to protect all my trees and landscaping inside of them. Walls and fencing on the Freedom Isles PvE servers are the only way people have to protect their hard efforts of work in off deed tile areas. Deeds can be placed side by side to increase perimeter size in that way. Extra perimeter can be paid for, walled off and used as well. Inside these areas people are devoting their time and effort to develop them into environments that are visually appealing to themselves and others passing by.

 

Usually other players will not take the time and effort required to break down a wall to enter these areas to either cut all trees down for woodcutting skill that the caretakers of them planted, pick all the crops, take unattended items, kill off livestock for meat and butchering gains, or simply get their perverse thrills by digging pits and destroying what is inside these areas. To enable other players to simply jump over these walls and enter these protected areas to do as they wish will be very detrimental and discouraging to those creative players who have developed them for their own positive uses.

 

Players are what enhance the blank slate of these Wurm lands. If any have been fortunate enough to travel upon the fresh lands of a server once it has opened they will become very aware of this. If they stay upon these servers for a number of years they will become even more aware of how players even working independently of each other eventually create a unified and beautiful environment which enhances the lure of Wurm to new players who may be inspired by these works of creation. Those who have built up these lands will also be pleased to see their work sustained over time and protected by some measure from destructive types by their walls and fencing which line the highways and byways in many places.

 

Any who live near starter deeds will have seen how newbies deforest them due to their innocent exploration of the game mechanics and their uses. They may dig pits in the ground out of pure amazement just to see how the ground is effected. Mine floors can be mined down much quicker than walls so this is taken advantage of as can be seen by the crazy pits they have been mined into. Then there will be those who care for nothing but themselves and will do whatever the game mechanics allow them to do, as well as those types who enjoy destroying things others have built just for kicks.

 

Walls and fencing are how we can survive these various assaults and still it takes many more hours of devoted time and effort to build them when one section can be broken down to enter the area. This is the price to pay for those who will put in this time and effort to protect their enclosed areas. It can be lived with grudgingly. I urge the game developers to ponder for a long while the contrast between those who enhance these blank slate worlds into something beautiful to behold by protecting their areas with walls/fencing to those who will destroy and take advantage of wall jumping to diminish these effects.

 

If you want to turn Wurm PvE servers into an anything goes environmental destructive war zone then this wall hopping "solution" will no doubt be a major step and enhancement in that direction. I for one will no longer then take the time that I have up to this point to repair all this type of destruction in the areas in which I reside, as I already have more than enough to keep me occupied by filling in the pits, repairing the dug roads and replanting the trees which over time seem to mysteriously reappear and vanish accordingly.

 

Hopefully some day in the not too distant future the grand experiment of a non-aggro server will be created and wall bunny hopping will be eliminated upon it. Then I will abandon my deeds upon these other servers and they as well as the surrounding environment can be destroyed as will by these innovative "solutions" and "enhancing" effects put into operation upon them. If until then my discouragement can be abated by these eliminate the positive changes by the negative changes counterbalancing effect (concrete creation is a good example), then I will continue on with my enjoyment of building within these somewhat fair lands with the resulting side effect of enhancing the game for others lure and enjoyment as well.

 

=Ayes=

[Sorien 55]

All of those things (except bridges) are due in the next update...

 

 

... Tich is working on bridges...

 

3 things:

 

1) When are we getting bridges, if not this next update? You implied (and it was my understanding) that bridges are a definite go, but then it sounded a little like bridges would require the collision changes. Did I misread that?

 

2) Can we catapult ourselves over tall walls...?

 

3) I think you should make the flying mounts breedable... just also make them refuse to go inside of buildings, and have them break taming (and thus not go offline) when whoever tamed them logs. It's not like they will stay inside of enclosures, and that way people wanting to use them will have to go catch wild ones each time. I think adding in those features, in conjunction with a cool down timer on flights and limits on flight distances would be better than insane bc requirements.

 

-Sorien

 

PS. Are spiders going to be able to climb walls now, at least low ones? Seems like they should be able to do that.

[Kagrenac 812]

All of those things (except bridges) are due in the next update (and you can actually see most of it on the test server right now) - this collision stuff isn't going to be a quick addition by any means - and will likely be in place for use with bridges, if we go ahead with it.

Is valrei ever going to be fixed?

[Budda 2,673]

So are you saying that in order to implement these changes you need to implement flying?  What does this have to do with flying?  If I'm reading correctly the majority of the negativity in this thread, including mine, is about flying.  

 

When I woke up this morning and read "flying,"  I was quite sure that December 30 must be some kind of Swedish version of April Fools Day.  Was sure it had to be some kind of misguided joke.   Now I see some people in this thread actually saying they want flying.  /boggle.  I'm still speechless and having a real hard time trying to say what I want to say without getting banned.  Others are saying it better than I can but apparently it's going to be ignored anyway.

 

edit..ps:  I include wall & fence hopping in this.  Bad idea.  Way bad.

 

Because everyone has seen the word 'flying' and stopped reading there. I'm 98% sure that Rolf was talking about the ability to ride dragons, and having dragons that actually fly.

We have no other ride-able creatures in game with wings, so you can't fly anything else.

[Budda 2,673]

3 things:

 

1) When are we getting bridges, if not this next update? You implied (and it was my understanding) that bridges are a definite go, but then it sounded a little like bridges would require the collision changes. Did I misread that?

A bit of both. They were never going to be in the next update - they are under works, but have no movement on them yet - we can make them work without a new collision system, but it'll be about as hacky as multi-storey, so we'd rather just fix it all.

 

2) Can we catapult ourselves over tall walls...?

Only if you make some wings out of papyrus first, and aim for the sun.

 

3) I think you should make the flying mounts breedable... just also make them refuse to go inside of buildings, and have them break taming (and thus not go offline) when whoever tamed them logs. It's not like they will stay inside of enclosures, and that way people wanting to use them will have to go catch wild ones each time. I think adding in those features, in conjunction with a cool down timer on flights and limits on flight distances would be better than insane bc requirements.

Any changes that might happen are certainly not concrete, hence this thread.

 

-Sorien

 

PS. Are spiders going to be able to climb walls now, at least low ones? Seems like they should be able to do that.

 

 

Is valrei ever going to be fixed?

 Not my area sorry, can't comment on it.

[Kegan 3,926]

Because everyone has seen the word 'flying' and stopped reading there. I'm 98% sure that Rolf was talking about the ability to ride dragons, and having dragons that actually fly.

We have no other ride-able creatures in game with wings, so you can't fly anything else.

Well it sounded like to me that it would be something more than that why even mess with it if you are not going to let the everyday player use it. Now if he wants the dragon to fly out of the pens then okay but there is no need to have players riding them for just that 

[Budda 2,673]

Well it sounded like to me that it would be something more than that why even mess with it if you are not going to let the everyday player use it. Now if he wants the dragon to fly out of the pens then okay but there is no need to have players riding them for just that 

 

I'll put it this way then; If the goal was to give players flight, we wouldn't need new tech - flying is already possible, GMs have that ability in game.