Posted March 10 Preventing the high dropout rate of new players sounds great - so long as it is not done by dumbing the game down to cater to the 'ugh-bash' mentality that most veteran Wurmians joined up to escape. Some people just shouldn't be here. There are plenty of games that cater to destructive children. This is not and should never become one. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 1 minute ago, Cista said: Relax dude, it was an response to the problem raised of having 1200 people to a slaying. Are you realising you are being melodramatic over an ability that you do NOT have in game today? But you do you. I see that any response would be deemed dramatic to you Relax m8, I was providing some insight to a suggestion you made, not attacking your state of mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Sulcofuron said: Preventing the high dropout rate of new players sounds great - so long as it is not done by dumbing the game down to cater to the 'ugh-bash' mentality that most veteran Wurmians joined up to escape. Some people just shouldn't be here. There are plenty of games that cater to destructive children. This is not and should never become one. Yea I feel there is a delusion going on here that if we add forced questing, instatravel and insta-trading like the themeparks, then Wurm will be as popular as the themeparks. The truth is that no themepark player will ever enjoy Wurm, will never become a resident. What we can do it is attract the potential Wurm players by doing what Wurm does best, not what WoW does best. Edited March 10 by Cista 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 Jaytoo discussing proposed auction changes, hope this clear some questions up. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 So we're back to Gold Valley eh? Hopefully we learned from that example. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 I must admit that (to my own astonishment) I tend to somewhat agree to Cista. All turns of "making the game easier" of "theme park" are fraught with the risk of dumbing down, alienation if not driving out the existing community more that attracting a sort of players who will never adapt to the ways of Wurm. Yet there is no doubt that Wurm recently, like all time before, makes the new player experience harder than it needs to be, especially to new players wanting to play on their own instead of depending on slaving on benefit of or mercy by established players and deeds. I made my first short Wurm experience in 2012, with the old tutorial (and GV? not sure) in place, and found that more appealing than what I found during my second and final start end of 2017. Haven's Landing was another attempt, not bad in itself, but unsustainable especially with steam launch, and wanting as it killed the start in old starter towns outside Independence. The "revised" short tutorial start for all after steam was simply bad, hastily set up, everyone knew. Let us see what the new setup brings, it looks not that bad, after all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 5 minutes ago, Ekcin said: I must admit that (to my own astonishment) I tend to somewhat agree to Cista. All turns of "making the game easier" of "theme park" are fraught with the risk of dumbing down, alienation if not driving out the existing community more that attracting a sort of players who will never adapt to the ways of Wurm. Someone saying something will dumb down the game, make it theme park, or make it easier doesn't mean it's actually what's happening. For example, having a keybinds to actions or the crafting menu doesn't made this game a themepark, dumbed it down or made it easier versus using right click menu, in my opinion at least. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 I will wait and see what will really happen from all of this I'm not really a fan of the connection between SFI and NFI as the economies are still different but I can see that some players just want to travel between the clusters. The connection of the clusters was inevitable anyways as it was just a question of time. One thing I'm missing here is the promised upkeep reduction that we should get after the trader were removed. What are the plans on this and when can we see this in game? Best -- Thassadhar 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 4 hours ago, Sulcofuron said: Preventing the high dropout rate of new players sounds great - so long as it is not done by dumbing the game down to cater to the 'ugh-bash' mentality that most veteran Wurmians joined up to escape. Some people just shouldn't be here. There are plenty of games that cater to destructive children. This is not and should never become one. Why do new players drop out? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 1 hour ago, Tor said: Someone saying something will dumb down the game, make it theme park, or make it easier doesn't mean it's actually what's happening. For example, having a keybinds to actions or the crafting menu doesn't made this game a themepark, dumbed it down or made it easier versus using right click menu, in my opinion at least. I do not say that the recently announced changes will necessarily be a dumbing down nor a too wide step away from sandbox and towards theme park, but some trend is noticeable. The problem is that if these changes do not much change newcomers' behaviour, doubling down in the same direction may occur. I did not plead "don't do" but "be aware". 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 (edited) On 3/8/2024 at 11:22 AM, Samool said: Portals Together with New Haven, we’ll be introducing a new portal mechanic, allowing you to teleport from any server to any other server, as well as between starter deeds on the same server. I do hope this is limited to the player's person and not horses/wagons and other stuff. On 3/8/2024 at 11:22 AM, Samool said: In-game auction house Another project being developed is an in-game auction house, which will handle both auction and WTS offers. It’s meant to facilitate trade between players - you’ll be able to sell and purchase items through a new UI window, currently planned to be accessible through any mailbox in the game. Don't like this idea. I'd like to see more use for merchants instead of this. Also what happens to stuff that needs to be transported (bulk stuff where no hwy is available). Will you have a way for players to fulfill orders like that or will it just magically be transported over mail now? Also regarding dumbing down: 1 hour ago, Ekcin said: be aware Keep in mind what challenges you are removing from the game. If you will end up with just a "Timesink Online" with no actual player wit involved, people will prefer other games over yours. Not only new players... Edited March 10 by Idlamn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 I am not opposed to any of this, all good in my book. But I would prefer the portals to be implemented sooner rather than later, since I am one of those who rerolled on NFI, and now I do feel a bit lost(?). There is little reason for me to keep improving those characters, when I already have better sitting idle on SFI. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 1 hour ago, Cenotaph said: I am not opposed to any of this, all good in my book. But I would prefer the portals to be implemented sooner rather than later, since I am one of those who rerolled on NFI, and now I do feel a bit lost(?). There is little reason for me to keep improving those characters, when I already have better sitting idle on SFI. Same here. I'm going to end up with a big family (of my own characters). However, I think it is almost inevitable that a character who wishes to be premium on both clusters will need to pay for 2 premiums. So keep that in mind. It has not been mentioned anywhere but it would be naive to think it will be a single premium for both clusters. My SFI main will definitely have a double citizenship, but I am not so sure about the rest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Simyaci said: However, I think it is almost inevitable that a character who wishes to be premium on both clusters will need to pay for 2 premiums. So keep that in mind. It has not been mentioned anywhere but it would be naive to think it will be a single premium for both clusters. I disagree. Pay 2 deeds upkeep - one for each cluster, but its one character so it should have one Premium. Right now SFI can bounce between Freedom and Epic via the portal with one premium account. I envision this to work like that. Items don't transfer, but money and skills do. Edited March 10 by Mitzie 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 (edited) 20 hours ago, Mitzie said: I disagree. Pay 2 deeds upkeep - one for each cluster, but its one character so it should have one Premium. Right now SFI can bounce between Freedom and Epic via the portal with one premium account. I envision this to work like that. Items don't transfer, but money and skills do. I am not saying I want it to be that way, I am saying I strongly believe it is going to be that way. EDIT: Turns out it is going to be 1 premium for both clusters on the same character, as stated within the comment below. Edited March 11 by Simyaci Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 Regarding the auction house, jaytoo, developer handling that feature, has created a feedback thread to discuss the motivation behind it and to iron out the implementation details with you all. You can find it here: On 3/8/2024 at 2:01 PM, Zenity said: So, changes to the land ownership system, which seems to be a return to the enclosure rules of old. A system which had benefits for undeeded players, yet also allowed some egregious land grabs through (technical) abuse of the system. While I applaud the return of a system which encouraged new players to build a starting area that wasn't going to be interfered with. I hope the introduction on New Haven will be used as a live test of the mechanic to avoid the dramas and problems associated with the old enclosure system. And that it's a mechanic, rather than just a rules based system. On 3/8/2024 at 4:29 PM, Cista said: My condolences to NFI crafters. SFI is going to wreck you. Also, huge fenced off areas are back on the menu! Lot of exciting but also wild changs to contemplate here. It saddens me a bit that the devs are taking more of the granular sandbox out of the game, with teleport instead of traveling, more questing treadmills, global auction house and so on. These changes will move Wurm away from being unique and more like being a cross between Second Life and a themepark. But it's not unexpected after so many years. That feature may sound a lot like the old enclosure rules, but it will be enforced by game mechanics rather than GMs. The area it can cover will be very limited, as it's not meant to be used for much other than new players using it for animal pens and small farms, so this definitely isn't a return to those huge fenced areas. It should end up on the test server within a few weeks, so there'll be plenty of time to test it out before release - hopefully we can catch and patch out any potential for abuse that way. On 3/9/2024 at 1:33 PM, Vorticella said: One thing I wasn't very excited about was this: I'm hoping I misunderstand this part and you mean adding more craftable items into the game as regular content, but it sounds like we're going to start seeing craftable items in the silver shop. Please, please limit the silver shop cosmetics to weapons and armour/clothing that the character equips. Decorative items, furniture, new vehicle models etc. should be added directly into the game as normal new content. By drawing this line the silver shop items will feel like bonus extras without competing with the regular gameplay of building and crafting items to customize and decorate our deeds. Items other than special player cosmetics should be added as new content to the game, which is something we expect to see when we already pay for monthly premium subscriptions. Limit access to special decorative items by gameplay, not silver. Put them behind high skills so we're motivated to stay in the game. Player retention is important for your profits too. The original post only meant adding new craftable items that are available to everyone, as we don't want to put all of the cool new stuff in the shop either. On 3/8/2024 at 4:17 PM, Kierkegaard said: Does this include addressing the crash to desktop issues that appears to be related to 'outdated' runtime packages that wurm uses? The community (@Batolemaeus) has come together to provide a third-party script to fix this issue but its really something that should be resolved by wurm's team. Most people are not knowledgeable enough to load up python to run a script so game packages are updated so the game doesn't crash every 15-minutes. Yes, our work does include a Java runtime upgrade, which should actually come before we release that larger client update. 6 hours ago, Ekcin said: I must admit that (to my own astonishment) I tend to somewhat agree to Cista. All turns of "making the game easier" of "theme park" are fraught with the risk of dumbing down, alienation if not driving out the existing community more that attracting a sort of players who will never adapt to the ways of Wurm. Yet there is no doubt that Wurm recently, like all time before, makes the new player experience harder than it needs to be, especially to new players wanting to play on their own instead of depending on slaving on benefit of or mercy by established players and deeds. I made my first short Wurm experience in 2012, with the old tutorial (and GV? not sure) in place, and found that more appealing than what I found during my second and final start end of 2017. Haven's Landing was another attempt, not bad in itself, but unsustainable especially with steam launch, and wanting as it killed the start in old starter towns outside Independence. The "revised" short tutorial start for all after steam was simply bad, hastily set up, everyone knew. Let us see what the new setup brings, it looks not that bad, after all. Please stay open-minded in regards to the quest system. Having a set of tasks communicated to newbies in a manner that they recognize from other games should be a huge help for getting them started, and it's not at all about turning the game into anything resembling theme park MMOs - it initially won't even affect other players, as we're only focused right now on adding some introductory quests, rather than adding them to the gameplay of estabilished players. We do want to look into it eventually, but only to expand on the currently available content, to have more things for players to do, rather than to change the nature of the game in any major way. Wurm is, and will remain, a world run by player initiative, rather than by a set narrative or quests. 20 minutes ago, Mitzie said: I disagree. Pay 2 deeds upkeep - one for each cluster, but its one character so it should have one Premium. Right now SFI can bounce between Freedom and Epic via the portal with one premium account. I envision this to work like that. Items don't transfer, but money and skills do. You will not need to purchase premium separately to have premium status on other clusters. 11 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 If we go through the portal from NFI - SFI do we keep our skills or are there any exceptions like faith or med path? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 1 hour ago, Samool said: Regarding Thanks for all these clarifications! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 I am thinking the auction house will be great for equalizing the prices of goods sold from player to player. It will also be another money-sink for the economy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10 16 minutes ago, Eyesgood said: money-sink FYI, money-sink = less money for you = deflation = everybody have a harder time paying for upkeep. Because upkeep and premium subscription are the only things that don't get cheaper with deflation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 11 10 hours ago, Samool said: That feature may sound a lot like the old enclosure rules, but it will be enforced by game mechanics rather than GMs. The area it can cover will be very limited, as it's not meant to be used for much other than new players using it for animal pens and small farms, so this definitely isn't a return to those huge fenced areas. It should end up on the test server within a few weeks, so there'll be plenty of time to test it out before release - hopefully we can catch and patch out any potential for abuse that way. Thanks, this is what I hoped for, a limited application of the enclosure system, which I actually agreed with, but was open to abuse. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 11 As someone who has been playing wurm casually on and off for many years, the addition of an auction house system is such a good change. In all my years playing I have barely engaged in the market, because spamming the trade channel and creating forum posts is such a poor way of handling trade I most of the time dont bother. The way you get people to engage long-term with the game is among other things getting them to engage in the market, why else would you want to grind your skills? This has the potential to really give new players a reason to stick around in the long-term. I had kinda lost hope of wurm sticking around for much longer after the recent drama, this post has filled me with optimism about the game again. All of the planned changes in this post are exactly the type of changes the game needs right now and I agree with all of them. Im excited for wurms future again! 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 11 16 hours ago, Samool said: The original post only meant adding new craftable items that are available to everyone, as we don't want to put all of the cool new stuff in the shop either. That's good to hear, thanks for clarifying 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 11 On 3/8/2024 at 10:22 AM, Samool said: We plan on releasing this as an update soon after New Haven. It’ll include goblin camps, a new feature focusing on exploration and combat, as well as a building expansion, currently planned to include ceilings, docks, and new wall types. Would be possible to cover diagonal fences with building expansions? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
