Spell tweaks on test

[Daolin 894]

Someones been dipping into their wemp supplies.

[Stormcrow 182]

Why the 30 second cool down on Oakshell? Do the Developers even realize the difficulties in playing a Fo priest in PvP? I find it doubtful since most players do not. The reason there are basically zero Fo Priests rocking their "uber" Oakshell and spamming LoF left and right is because it is nightmarishly difficult to do.

 

Oakshell - 20 favor 9 second cast time

vs.

Dispel - 10 favor 4 second cast time with a 6 tile range.

 

For you not to be gimping yourself you need a 70+ power cast of Oakshell. This typically requires multiple casts even with a very highly skilled priest. If you are pvping and an enemy priest starts to cast Dispel on you there is not sufficient time to get out of range or interrupt their cast. Dispel has almost a guaranteed chance of removing a buff. Once your Oakshell is dispelled you are naked and die in seconds. Another issue is keeping track of the remaining time on your Oakshell. If this spell wears off in the middle of combat you die. Oakshell with 100 power cast lasts for roughly 33 minutes. A 70 power cast is roughly 28 minutes. That 28 minute timer does not begin the second you first engage your enemy and is extremely hard to time when you should buff yourself without being caught in PvP completely naked or with only minutes left on your buff. You can "buffer" your Oakshell and provide it with some protection by stacking other buffs on top that people have to dispel through. This is the only method to even make Oakshell work by providing you some opportunity to disengage and seek protection before you are completely naked and insta gibbed. The cost in favor to get a decent cast of Oakshell and buffer it properly can cost hundreds of favor. Top that off with the timing issues involved and its just a joke.

 

Now try and combine the difficulties of keeping track of everything going on in normal pvp with trying to keep you and your Oakshell protected. That's not difficult enough, lets try playing a healer in Wurm too.

 

Light of Fo - 60 favor 9 second cast time

 

Fo's single target healing spells such as Cure Light are as good as never used in PvP due to lack of range and the difficulty of selecting a proper wound to heal. Due to the constant movement in pvp combined with the time it takes to target the proper wound using Wurm's antiquated GUI the single target spells just don't get used. Which leads to LoF. LoF is the only healing spell that gets used because of the AoE factor which avoids the issues of single target heals but at the cost of massive amounts of favor. Each cast of LoF requires 60 favor which adds up fast. Couple the cost of LoF and the cost of maintaining Oakshell and the fact that Fo can't even mine for gems leads to some Mag Priests fat and happy retirement fund. I'll also toss out that even using LoF its still difficult to heal because you need to keep track of other players health which is no simple thing in Wurm due to the GUI (or lack thereof) and maintaining proper distance to those you are trying to heal, while not exposing yourself to your enemy. LoF's longer cast timer makes you an exposed and very visible juicy target.

 

Trying to keep track of normal pvp, while maintaining and protecting your Oakshell, while trying to heal = nightmare. I have watched a multitude of pvpers think, "hey, that seems really awesome," try out Fo for a few weeks then switch to Mag for the instant gimmes. Why hassle with the difficulties stated above when every new Mag priest gets a built in rezz stone that when stacked with a store bought rezz stone provides near to 100% protection for all your gear. Why bother with the hassle of Oakshell when even if you can pull it off half your gear is still vulnerable if you die. Mag = no work, all reward. Fo = heavy work, moderate reward.

 

Fo only currently offers Oakshell and LoF to PvP. They do not have built in rezz stones protecting their gear, they do not have a damage buff, they do not have damage spells, they cannot catapult,  they cannot even mine for their own gems. Please consider while "balancing" what Fo has to offer in PvP.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Stormcrow

[Mojo 2,095]

The thing is, I have been here for a long time. I have watch a lot of time get wasted (development wise) in areas where it didn't need to be.  And PVP or not, this change isn't needed. One thing that stands out on why it isn't needed is:

* To reduce the effectiveness of "spiking" players by having several priests targetting and quickly shred them to pieces with spells

Really? We are messing with all of this because people that play PVP in a sandbox game want to limit their opponent's attacking ability? This community is funny, specifically the hardcore PVPers... they're the first ones to yell out about some risk vs. rewards nonsense, but yet  they want to add handicaps all over the place.

Look, you're playing pvp... in a sandbox game. If 4 priests walk up to you and unleash hell, ripping you apart.... so be it. It was supposed to happen. You made yourself vulnerable to 4 priests. The priests worked to get the ability to cast said spell, they made the effort to collect and vessel gems... you deserve to be shred. End of.

Lastly, same can be said for this new, elaborate (and stupid) update with the "corrupt" animals. Why spend hours (maybe weeks) of dev time making this complex speghetti code of a mechanic, when you could have easily just switched the feed flag of mycelium on?

Wurm is the king of Rube Goldberg fixes for their perceived problems, PVP OR PVE orientated.

 

Come to Epic with a full sailboat of people, see how it fairs against 2 BL priests in a 5v5, even if you have a Fo priest.  The thing is, to PvP you shouldn't have to be a priest.  Even with godlike soul stats you will get torn to shreds as it is now... I've been a PvPing priest for almost 3 years now and can say it doesn't take much effort at all to get the ability to cast spells, so don't kid yourself with the effort part.  Mine for a few hours and you'll have enough gems to PvP for awhile.  Overheating is a very big restriction in PvP, don't know if you've ever overheated with offensive spells before but no matter the amount of gems you have, it stops spells for a good while.

 

Corrupt change was needed, whitelight horses shouldn't be able to graze on mycelium, only blacklight horses should.  Doing things your way is just a cheap fix that makes being a priest less necessary.

 

You're really sour towards the changes that the majority of PvPers need.  I don't like the leading change, as many others have said it should be less CR when leading critters, not a limit on what you can lead.

[Aum 771]

Locate soul should have a cooldown shouldnt it? is it not a major pvp spell?

[Kagrenac 812]

Oakshell - 20 favor 9 second cast time

vs.

Dispel - 10 favor 4 second cast time with a 6 tile range.

 

You can "buffer" your Oakshell and provide it with some protection by stacking other buffs on top that people have to dispel through. This is the only method to even make Oakshell work by providing you some opportunity to disengage and seek protection before you are completely naked and insta gibbed. The cost in favor to get a decent cast of Oakshell and buffer it properly can cost hundreds of favor. Top that off with the timing issues involved and its just a joke.

 

Mag = no work, all reward. Fo = heavy work, moderate reward.

Just going to point out a couple flaws, but I don't really see why the cooldown was needed either.

 

I never had an issue getting a high power oakshell, it really isn't a difficult spell, You can also just carry around a set of armor and instantly equip it with the keybind if your oakshell gets dispelled.

 

If you have to buy your gems from kingdomates, there is an issue with your kingdom, I don't see why any group wouldn't make sure their fo priests had enough gems.

 

I really don't see how mag is no work all reward, its make sure you keep enough favor, get a minor damage bonus and a passive that only helps you if you die.

While as a Fo priest, you have the ability to completely turn a fight around by healing a large amount of damage for your entire side. You also naturally force your opponents to choose to either devote resources to debuffing you and killing you, or ignore you and deal with the consequences.

 

People play mag over fo because it makes them stronger, while fo makes the entire group stronger, (and on chaos the whole rl gear value makes the res stone bonus extremely attractive)

[Stormcrow 182]

I agree, you can carry around a set of armor in case you get dispelled but by doing so you are making it almost pointless to use Oakshell in the first place. You now have to carry that additional weight and put that armor at risk along with the rest of your gear while Mag is putting what at risk exactly?

 

Kingdom mates providng gems is irrelevant to the discussion as Mag can also acquire gems from kingdom mates. Why should Fo and Vynora have to beg? There is no justifiable reasoning.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Stormcrow

[Pryath 181]

The thing is, to PvP you shouldn't have to be a priest.

 

^^^^

[darthryan 588]

What. The. Potato.

1. You can't force people to use different armor types, unless you're going to do something... Extreme.

2. Only leading one animal?!

3. I think you should be encouraging priests to play a support role in PvP, rather than nerfing their utility and giving them direct combat tools such as archery.

[Atlas 363]

...

While on a vehicle or riding you may now only lead one creature which should make battles more interesting according to several sources.

...

Very excited to see the effort of this rebalance!

Can I make a suggestion to address the above problem: when leading more than 1 animal, your shield (offhand) is effectively useless/nonexistent. The model for your shield would still show but it would be useless for protecting against archery and in melee--you would be essentially holding only your one-handed weapon. For two handed weapons, implement either a CR nerf or do nothing. Also, dont allow archery at all while leading more than 1 animal

This would help to address the problem while not impacting PVE Freedom servers as no one uses a shield in PVE against mobs, whereas on a PVP server the squire-boy towing the spare animals for everyone would be very vulnerable to archery and melee attacks

Also, I would like to underscore the benefit and significance of finally nerfing the use of archery while wearing plate--this is the move that will ultimately make 'lesser' armors more viable in real PVP. Next, you will have to implement a timer for 'changing' your gear as everyone instantly equips and unequips full plate armor in splitseconds to negate any nerfs or penalties. And one should not even be allowed to change armor while mounted

Edit: To address the helms issue: dont even allow a player to 'target' the face or head of a player...make it a very low chance thing--similar to getting a rare roll on creation or imping...on a rare roll the arrow will hit the face of an opponent

Regards!

Edited September 6, 2014 by Atlas

[Pryath 181]

Very excited to see the effort of this rebalance!

 

Can I make a suggestion to address the above problem: when leading more than 1 animal, your shield (offhand) is effectively useless/nonexistent. The model for your shield would still show but it would be useless for protecting against archery and in melee--you would be essentially holding only your one-handed weapon. For two handed weapons, implement either a CR nerf or do nothing. Also, dont allow archery at all while leading more than 1 animal

 

This would help to address the problem while not impacting PVE Freedom servers as no one uses a shield in PVE against mobs and on a PVP server, the page-boy towing the spare animals for everyone would be very vulnerable to archery and melee attacks

 

Also,  I would like to underscore the benefit and significance of finally nerfing archery while wearing plate--this is the move that will ultimately make 'lesser' armors more viable in real PVP. Next, you will have to implement a timer for 'changing' your gear as everyone instantly equips and unequips full plate armor in seconds to negate any nerfs or penalties. And one should not even be allowed to change armor while mounted

 

Regards!

 

wat?  so many Wat's in there  interesting stuff...  if this wasn't Wurm hehe

 

I'll bite tho.

 

Priests must wear cloth armor.  A good incentive for them to stay well away from the swords!  oh yeah.  and priests can only use wooden blunt weapons.  Absolutely no metal, studded nor dragon armor!  that dragon stuff is magical after all, it would interfere with their casting.  And no shields nor helm of any type.  would get in the way of the 2 hands they should be using to cast with and a helm would boggle the mind.  no good having heavy tight headache causing gear on a caster's head.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Pryath

[watkins141 994]

 I have watched a lot of dev time being wasted... and this is one of those times. It is an opinion.

So because PvP got something good and PvE didn't, it is a waste of time? Hello? That sounds a bit childish seeing as you have been getting updates weekly and we have not gotten anything that would be good for us.

[Propheteer 7,139]

Giving the other priests archery is a balancing issue, giving priests that have archery another ability would maintain the imbalance.

[Davy 408]

Really oakshell don't need a cooldown, it's already too easy dispelling for enemies.

[Ruger 610]

Very excited to see the effort of this rebalance!

Can I make a suggestion to address the above problem: when leading more than 1 animal, your shield (offhand) is effectively useless/nonexistent. The model for your shield would still show but it would be useless for protecting against archery and in melee--you would be essentially holding only your one-handed weapon. For two handed weapons, implement either a CR nerf or do nothing. Also, dont allow archery at all while leading more than 1 animal

This would help to address the problem while not impacting PVE Freedom servers as no one uses a shield in PVE against mobs, whereas on a PVP server the squire-boy towing the spare animals for everyone would be very vulnerable to archery and melee attacks

Also, I would like to underscore the benefit and significance of finally nerfing the use of archery while wearing plate--this is the move that will ultimately make 'lesser' armors more viable in real PVP. Next, you will have to implement a timer for 'changing' your gear as everyone instantly equips and unequips full plate armor in splitseconds to negate any nerfs or penalties. And one should not even be allowed to change armor while mounted

Edit: To address the helms issue: dont even allow a player to 'target' the face or head of a player...make it a very low chance thing--similar to getting a rare roll on creation or imping...on a rare roll the arrow will hit the face of an opponent

Regards!

[rixk 830]

I wonder how long it takes Rolf to understand, that changes to different servers have different impact. On the one side there is PvP crowd, who seem to think, that leading less animals is somehow making their battles interesting. On the other side there are PvE horse breeders, who want to transport their animals(sometimes over long distances), where even current limit to leading is not enough.

 

It is funny, how in the open world sandbox game with a lot of freedom, the word "limit" comes up more often lately and that just because people don't use the "tools" they are given the way Rolf imagined.

[blayze 314]

I wonder how long it takes Rolf to understand, that changes to different servers have different impact. On the one side there is PvP crowd, who seem to think, that leading less animals is somehow making their battles interesting. On the other side there are PvE horse breeders, who want to transport their animals(sometimes over long distances), where even current limit to leading is not enough.

It is funny, how in the open world sandbox game with a lot of freedom, the word "limit" comes up more often lately and that just because people don't use the "tools" they are given the way Rolf imagined.

Edited September 6, 2014 by blayze

[rixk 830]

It's funny because I can't think of one person who pvps that wants the leading thing to go though as is. Look at some of the other posts

[demondan 1,865]

Beg? lel, join a new kingdom. Fo is the new OP bruv. get with the times, we all going FO!

[RockyBalboa 565]

hope rolf will not tuchy horses at all...   pvp on horse was always fun

[blayze 314]

@stormcrow

I was a fo priest for a while and I did not ever feel like I had to put in more work than I did with other priests. Oakshell/Thornshell can be casted on other players and animals (aka your horse). When roaming you can take off all of your armor and cast Oakshell on your self and by the time the it's over you have enough favor to cast on your self again. You might not get 70+ casts every time but still a large portion of the time you do.

Fighting other priests can really suck if they remember to disspell you but often people forget. Oakshell also allows players to back out of ground fights quickly and avoid being targeted. Even when carrying a plate set you can still move out of combat to avoid being taken down.

It is strong but also has a lot of weaknesses such as being dispelled, targeted out by casters and the timer for how long the cast is good for.

As for gems, if your not getting them by your kingdom for group fights then that seems like a kingdom issue. Fo priests provide the most support to other players, so the other players should support you.

Fo has its place as a priest in group fights and in small scale fights. I don't really see a problem with him being too much work, just a different play style is needed to use the spells to the full potential. I don't know if the cool down on Oakshell is nessary or will even make that much of a difference.

Although it would be nice to see forest giant strength have some use.

Edited September 6, 2014 by blayze

[Arkhir 280]

Your most solid piece of armour now limits your ability to cast spells and perform archery. Using lighter armours give bonus! You can hover the status icon to see the current penalty or bonus.

The damage effects of hitting limbs, heads and eyes were tweaked down a bit so that you can wear light helmets

Whoa. I have to test it. Edited September 6, 2014 by Arkhir

[BrQQQ 2,854]

Light of Fo - 60 favor 9 second cast time

 

Fo's single target healing spells such as Cure Light are as good as never used in PvP due to lack of range and the difficulty of selecting a proper wound to heal. Due to the constant movement in pvp combined with the time it takes to target the proper wound using Wurm's antiquated GUI the single target spells just don't get used. Which leads to LoF. LoF is the only healing spell that gets used because of the AoE factor which avoids the issues of single target heals but at the cost of massive amounts of favor. Each cast of LoF requires 60 favor which adds up fast. Couple the cost of LoF and the cost of maintaining Oakshell and the fact that Fo can't even mine for gems leads to some Mag Priests fat and happy retirement fund. I'll also toss out that even using LoF its still difficult to heal because you need to keep track of other players health which is no simple thing in Wurm due to the GUI (or lack thereof) and maintaining proper distance to those you are trying to heal, while not exposing yourself to your enemy. LoF's longer cast timer makes you an exposed and very visible juicy target.

 

Trying to keep track of normal pvp, while maintaining and protecting your Oakshell, while trying to heal = nightmare. I have watched a multitude of pvpers think, "hey, that seems really awesome," try out Fo for a few weeks then switch to Mag for the instant gimmes. Why hassle with the difficulties stated above when every new Mag priest gets a built in rezz stone that when stacked with a store bought rezz stone provides near to 100% protection for all your gear. Why bother with the hassle of Oakshell when even if you can pull it off half your gear is still vulnerable if you die. Mag = no work, all reward. Fo = heavy work, moderate reward.

 

Fo only currently offers Oakshell and LoF to PvP. They do not have built in rezz stones protecting their gear, they do not have a damage buff, they do not have damage spells, they cannot catapult,  they cannot even mine for their own gems. Please consider while "balancing" what Fo has to offer in PvP.

I agree with the oakshell part, but not with the other bits.

The reason why it costs so much favor (which certainly adds up very quickly) is because LoF is incredibly powerful, partially because of how spammable it is. While Magranon might receive a res stone or damage bonus, those abilities won't make you win fights on their own. Light of Fo most certainly can completely change a fight.

I do agree it really sucks getting gems as a Fo priest, but you can easily survive by relying on others to get gems for you. I wish we didn't have to, but there are still possibilities to get gems.

Fo most certainly offers a lot more than those two spells. There is much more to Wurm pvp than just the actual combat phase. Nolocate allows you to sneak up or get away from enemies. Refresh and full heals keep your boat commander alive. Combination of charm and being 60+ faith lets you have hell horses with any tameable pet. Genesis makes it ridiculously easy to kill an enemy zombie. The cure light/med/serious is incredibly useful, especially for nasty horse wounds during archery.

Besides the PvP benefits, Fo gives a ton of other benefits that may indirectly affect pvp, making hunting (and the stats you gain from it) very easy, making breeding horses a lot less painful, strongly improving movement on foot in general etc.

[Kagrenac 812]

What gives you the armor penalty/bonus seems really strange.

None, 30% bonus

Cloth, 30% bonus (apparently not armor)

Leather 30% bonus (apparently not armor)

Studded, nothing

Chain -15%

Drake/plate/scale -30%.

 

Pretty sure the bonus/penalty is working by making the shots easier too.

30% bonus, difficulty 38

Nada 35

30% penalty, 31.

 

But you get fun "your armor disturbs you" messages at random in chain+ at random that cancel your shot.

(Kinda an important thing to mention)

Edited September 6, 2014 by Kagrenac

[Saxxone 0]

 

 

While on a vehicle or riding you may now only lead one creature which should make battles more interesting according to several sources.

 

Err...No, terrible idea.

 

I hate it, I am a horse breeder on Freedom and would make the game very tedious and annoying.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Saxxone

[Becket 843]

While on a vehicle or riding you may now only lead one creature which should make battles more interesting according to several sources.

This may be useful in pvp which I could are less about, it must not be applied to the pve servers.

While your messing around with how things work how about fixing the mail system, if you can put it in your inventory you can mail it works. That or gives us a reason I can mail a large maul but not a long sword.