Exploration: Part 1 - Public Testing!

[Ekcin 2,418]

5 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Considering the sheer amount of running over hills and far away, and the huge time-suck involved; no.  No, people wouldn't be farming this for the SP.  Why spend 3+ hours in non-skillgain activity to get 3 sleep-powders so that some other 3 hour period could have have double skillgain?  The SP is completely nullified, because you spend 6 hours to get 6 hours skillgain.

While I disagree with Finn in a lot of his arguments (imho he has an obsession with "farming" 😎), he has a point here, depending how long it takes to get one reward. You forget that 1 SP usually sells for 1s. If it takes 1hr/SP it means that you get the upkeep for a basic deed plus the premium sub in 11 hours of roaming the landscape. For the same, I would reckon that you will be left making bricks for a longer period of time. 

 

 

[Bekador 211]

4 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

While I disagree with Finn in a lot of his arguments (imho he has an obsession with "farming" 😎), he has a point here, depending how long it takes to get one reward. You forget that 1 SP usually sells for 1s. If it takes 1hr/SP it means that you get the upkeep for a basic deed plus the premium sub in 11 hours of roaming the landscape. For the same, I would reckon that you will be left making bricks for a longer period of time. 

 

 

 

To be able to "roam the landscape" for 11 h you need 11 maps (well 11 maps will take longer than 11 h but just assume to stay in the 1s/h bracket). If they always contain one sleeppowder + extra they will not sell for less than the price of the sleeppowder so buying them only for that is out of the question. 11 Maps at 1/5 Chance would mean you need about 55 MOI at minimum to collect such amount maps. I dont know how often you get a MOI, but I dont get one every hour. Even assuming you get one every hour on the spot we are looking at least at 55 h of farming/mining etc. for that amount of maps.

 

For me it looks like most of you forget the time invested to get the maps in calculating their reward. Its not just finding the X (or multiple X'es if you get a novice 3-part map) but also the amount invested to get the map first.

[magdegreen 43]

I didn't want to comment last night when I finished my testing, as I was actually pretty frustrated by the end. Today I feel better about the 2 clues I finished. Once I started spamming examine on the map, and figuring out how to narrow the clues down that way it got quite easier, but looking for a guard tower that was in the middle of dense forest in the north for over a hour before then was not quiet as nice lol. As it is now, I would probably do some of the clues for the fun of it and to get some sleep powders here and there, but more than likely I would end up with a huge stock pile of maps that I wouldn't want to bother with. However, if there are more rare and interesting rewards that I only get from exploration, I would go out of my way with excitement to get said rewards. For me the real excitement, unless there is some way to actually interject real intrigue from the exploring itself, is in the rewards. So please, give us neat rewards.

[Drogos 518]

While waiting for this update, I built expectations. None of the expectations I build were met (I hear there is more to be revealed, so I get to build my expectations higher in the mean time). To me this feels more like a "Treasure search update", rather than a "Exploration update". I do not want to be negative towards it cause I can see the appeal for many players, and think that it is a good addition to the game. For me, this time, it was a let down, but that only because I managed to build wrong expectations for it. Very happy to see test server is being used, and that the game is still being developed! Not everything appeals to everyone

[Tor 530]

Having expectation relate with being passionate about something. Did anyone expectation were meet tho, beside Archaed's? What's the point in doing something that only going to meet no expectation or the lowest expectations possible.

I am kinda tired of criticizing the obvious.

 

Hope the rewards are going to be better so this update makes sense and it's not just another thing no one uses/or doing.

[Ekcin 2,418]

2 hours ago, Bekador said:

For me it looks like most of you forget the time invested to get the maps in calculating their reward. Its not just finding the X (or multiple X'es if you get a novice 3-part map) but also the amount invested to get the map first.

I would consider getting the maps rather a side effect of a lot of activities. I for my part am busy on daily foraging and botanizing. If maps are dropping there similarly to rare coins or other stuff I would have a lot of maps without additional effort.

[Lisimba 779]

13 hours ago, Sinnjinn said:

 

 My experience with a 99ql map was that it would be near impossible for all but a few people to take on the mobs by themselves.  I was ambushed by a greenish hell hound, a normal hell hound, a greenish croc, a hardened spider and 2 normal brown bears.  And with all 90's in skill and characteristics, and 90ql addy huge axe (but no LT which would have helped) I survived with about 10% of my health.

 

Do the mobs behave like regular mobs? You can usually kite a group out a bit and they'll stop following you at different points, spreading them out in a line. Then you can loop back and tackle them one by one.

[Ekcin 2,418]

13 hours ago, Sinnjinn said:

 

 My experience with a 99ql map was that it would be near impossible for all but a few people to take on the mobs by themselves.  I was ambushed by a greenish hell hound, a normal hell hound, a greenish croc, a hardened spider and 2 normal brown bears.  And with all 90's in skill and characteristics, and 90ql addy huge axe (but no LT which would have helped) I survived with about 10% of my health.  

That sounds interesting. My rant always was that there are no real combat challenges on PvE servers except rifts.

 

Question is which tactical possibilities do I have. Is it possible to retreat e.g. for healup, or will the critters vanish and the find be gone?

Edited May 30, 2022 by Ekcin

[kochinac 1,396]

3 hours ago, Archaed said:

Honestly, loot averages are going to be a difficult thing to balance, because there's just not the scale that is in live. The journal refers to obtaining a unique item, which isn't a chess piece, so there are new things, but they're clearly rare. 

 

The speed of doing things on test, and the scale of doing them does not match the live servers, so you can't balance off "I did four and I got trash". 

 

There's going to be filler stuff, that's to be expected, but it may require tweaking when live to be sure that it's good. 

 

Archaeology took several updates to be in the great spot it's in now too. 

FYI Archeology is still in terrible spot...

[Yaga 2,892]

Did anyone encounter issues with named guard towers not actually being found?

 

I got this parchment:

 

So, I easily found "Warlander's Playground" southwest of the starter town. I literally searched the area around that deed for hours, but I never found a guard tower labelled "Sinnjinn 82". The map below shows the guard towers I found (orange). Admittedly the forests are very dense in that area, but I would say I am sure I left no stone or branch unturned.

 

 

@Budda @Darklords can this be a bug? Maybe the guard tower is not near that village, or it has been destroyed since? (Or maybe I'm just blind ... but it's probably worth checking.)

 

[Bekador 211]

You search radius is way too small, I have found "not far" clues up to around 500 tiles away from the starting spot.

[TheTrickster 2,290]

1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

Is it possible to retreat e.g. for healup, or will the critters vanish and the find be gone?

You can outrun them and they will stop chasing, like regular mobs.  I managed to fight the guardians one at a time by running away and then coming back into range of them one after the other.

On a 72QL map I got on the two rounds I have completed so far:  a pair of crocodiles (both champions), a hardened hellhound and raging black bear; and then a pair of champion crocodiles, some kind of conditions anaconda and hardened black bear.  Easily handled on the 90 fight skill I gave myself, but in normal gameplay any one of them would have had me in no time.

 

[Lisimba 779]

3 hours ago, Drogos said:

While waiting for this update, I built expectations. None of the expectations I build were met (I hear there is more to be revealed, so I get to build my expectations higher in the mean time).

 

What were your expectations, though? This is the feedback thread after all, if you can state clearly what you expected, perhaps the devs can do something with it.

[TheTrickster 2,290]

2 hours ago, Yaga said:

Did anyone encounter issues with named guard towers not actually being found?

 

 

@Budda @Darklords can this be a bug? Maybe the guard tower is not near that village, or it has been destroyed since? (Or maybe I'm just blind ... but it's probably worth checking.)

 

"Near" is not as near as you think.  I also had a tower "near" Warlander Playground and it was in the SW corner of that area, south of the lake.  I had another "near" Hear We Go Again and it was NW of the white patch on the map.  In that whole area between the spawn town and the lake I found at least half a dozen towers.  They are there, just hard to find.

Edited May 30, 2022 by TheTrickster

[Archaed 2,280]

1 hour ago, kochinac said:

FYI Archeology is still in terrible spot...

It's actually not, as someone with 90 in both arch and resto, it's great. There's a ton of statue pieces you can collect and trade, and finding them feels rewarding and worthwhile. 

 

I'm sorry you think so, but perhaps you could share your thoughts in a DM instead of derailing here 

[Archaed 2,280]

3 hours ago, Tor said:

Having expectation relate with being passionate about something. Did anyone expectation were meet tho, beside Archaed's? What's the point in doing something that only going to meet no expectation or the lowest expectations possible.

I am kinda tired of criticizing the obvious.

 

Hope the rewards are going to be better so this update makes sense and it's not just another thing no one uses/or doing.

I think that's because I didn't start theorising on what it would be. My biggest hope was that it was something to get you out and travelling, and I think it achieves that. It's a reward for leaving the deed and exploring, which I've always preferred over grinding (and I'm the worst at imping) 

 

I feel that a lot of players hoped it made leaving the deed more worthwhile than grinding, in a sense of if you got one you HAD to go out and do it all ASAP, and I get that not being the case for many, feeling they'd rather stay on their deed and play their current way vs anything else. 

 

In the end, I want the focus to be on the mechanics, not the loot, as loot is just a table that changes, and isn't really a major mechanical issue, others are talking about the feel of it all and that's great, I love seeing people share that, and I agree with a fair few points. 

 

I just see the complaints about loot as a bit trivial, with decisions about the entire system being made of 1 experience, it's like complaining weaponsmithing sucks because you imped for an hour and didn't get a supreme item. 

 

Also, can I just say that I LOVE that it's not tied to any skill? Feels incredibly accessible. 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Archaed

[Borstaskor 503]

I don't understand why you gotta try to reinvent the wheel unless the wheel is bad.

 

I can tell that you took some inspiration from clue scrolls in runescape. Great! They're a success there and it can be here too.

 

Now, just go all the way: Take the reward structure/philosophy of the clue scrolls in runescape too. Sure, you get some random trash items in RS (likened to the wemp and lumps you get here), but what makes them worthwhile is the unique rewards that you have a small chance to obtain.

 

The rewards don't need to be lucrative every time. But they need to be fun.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Borstaskor

[Archaed 2,280]

Just now, Borstaskor said:

I don't understand why you gotta try to reinvent the wheel unless the wheel is bad.

 

I can tell that you took some inspiration from clue scrolls in runescape. Great! They're a success there and it can be here too.

 

Now, just go all the way: Take the reward structure/philosophy of the clue scrolls in runescape too. Sure, you get some random trash items in RS (likened to the wemp and lumps you get here), but what makes them worthwhile is the unique rewards that you have a small chance to obtain.

From the journal

 

 

"Find treasure with a Unique item" 

 

[Tor 530]

I agree that is accessible for everyone even tho only use of specific skills would reward you with a clue. The comparation with weaponsmithing isn't exactly the fair one, I do weaponsmithing so i can imp my weapons to higher ql and easier, if you get supreme it's like a bingo.For me skills are pretty much only thing in wurm that doesn't "Decay" and most valuable thing worth investing a time.

But when you go out there after getting a clue, on a "treasure hunting" and REGARDLESS of the mechanic, i am guessing you would be expecting a chance for actual treasure, not excuse to get out of your deed that me personally doesn't need. It doesn't have to be consistent garanteed set of value, but imo it have to include that "OMG i got a bingo" moment

There was some suggestion in here wanting weirder rewards and rare bone fragments which is pretty cool can you can always ask the community what's their ultimate treasure.

 

For the mechanic etc, i don't mind the current state and kinda like it to be honest,  way better then new fishing.

Maybe include a leader board with monthly best treasure hunting reward etc, it doesn't have to be any special, a titles is enough

[nitram20 90]

I am rather curious as to how much of this feedback can be adopted to the update that is supposed to come out tomorrow, or what exactly were you thinking about putting this on a mere 3 days before release? 

judging from the dev responses “we will look into it” or “We will discuss the rewards”  that its absolutely not going to change before release.

 

Any online game will put the update on weeks if not months in advance for public testing.

 

also to me “treasure” translates to rare, unique, possibly unmakeable or obtainable items, and not trash materials. 
 

I mean, Tar? Seriously? 

Edited May 30, 2022 by nitram20

[Tpikol 1,057]

17 minutes ago, nitram20 said:

I am rather curious as to how much of this feedback can be adopted to the update that is supposed to come out tomorrow, or what exactly were you thinking about putting this on a mere 3 days before release? 

judging from the dev responses “we will look into it” or “We will discuss the rewards”  that its absolutely not going to change before release.

judging by the coffe fiasco and everything else " we will look into it" means they will ignore everything and later write on some topic most people wont see that "they listened to the feedback and decided to ignore it all and continue with their original idea" like they did with coffe.

[Finnn 3,321]

Archaeology still sucks with it's reports not stacking, remaining with same item/icon/text and having to constantly right click the report to check for get-directions appearance, oh wait YES, we can use THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE to read wurm event logs and alert us for the magic moment... that seems bad if you are required to use side application to make use of a mechanic. All it needs to have a big qol is to directly have visual que when a report have all needed information to find the cache, explanation if that is identical to complete report and similar for complete report, possibly just pop that into inventory so another new report for same place can start generating. Right now players RolePlay troubled minds with the reports being done but they keep looking for more information and lose benefits... until they right click and see "oh it was done, great", or use thirdparty software to workaround/"cheat" and get ahead of others with that.

 

@Sinduskthat's to be expected in a normal big mmo.. but in a niche small game.. not much reason to slap 20 alts around the map for smallest rewards.. if the maps are that common and all give 1sp or more.. this is just a big cow to grind for pixel money and there's nothing to actually do besides farming virtual cash/skill-boosters

Many players do not exist the deeds, and this do not seem to make them go out.. if it's requiring going in random directions and circles with poor explanation where's the spot from the map. Sure, we'll quickly have community map of guard towers on live.. but then what's the point of this cryptic nonsense looking for them.. just another mechanic asking for 3rd party helping tools to play the game.. once again alt tab or use 2nd monitor.. etc.

I expect the same with maps though .. once value is "5silver"(which is insanely a lot.... if it's rare and in demand resource - instant conversion and that silver could be used for prem or anything else.. but gives nothing back to ccab), or anything varying within small amount of that.. people not bothering to explore will start selling them to these who just cant sit on their deeds and explore anyway already all day for various reasons.

[Tpikol 1,057]

7 minutes ago, Finnn said:

Archaeology still sucks with it's reports not stacking, remaining with same item/icon/text and having to constantly right click the report to check for get-directions appearance, oh wait YES, we can use THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE to read wurm event logs and alert us for the magic moment... that seems bad if you are required to use side application to make use of a mechanic.

sorry but this isnt true anymore, im not sure when this was added but now when you finish a report you get a (located) or (completed) tag at the end of it. located means you found the cache but dont have the full information on the report and completed means you have done both.

[Finnn 3,321]

3 hours ago, Lisimba said:

 

What were your expectations, though? This is the feedback thread after all, if you can state clearly what you expected, perhaps the devs can do something with it.

doubt it... what I expected with "exploration" was basically... ability to travel to Jackal-server.. with new stuff.. and no regular building or deeds; possibly of making villages in the outpost kind of way.. but not by building them directly as we can currently.. finding spread around the land.. places with broken fencing/walls/buildings already in rough shape and rebuilding only them once you join something like a deed. or w/e permission system.. allowing you to work and patch up the found place; every few hours mobs doing swarm attacks maybe... just spawning and despawning to cause havoc where players are if they are in the wild and closer to bounties; all the troll/goblin/etc 'village' encounters similar to rift camps we have currently.. possibly new recipes to learn and bring back.. etc ..etc..

Going into such server with nothing... but having epic-kind of skilling, no skill transfer, but possibility to get back all you looted(just and only), gives you pure restart vibe.. and you have only the gear you make at that new place.. while able to get back with anything you get to find.

Maybe that was never the plan or rework of what ex team left was not much to do something like that, etc, idk, just my expectations were actual exploration and not archaeology with guard tower fishing…

[Lisimba 779]

51 minutes ago, nitram20 said:

I am rather curious as to how much of this feedback can be adopted to the update that is supposed to come out tomorrow, or what exactly were you thinking about putting this on a mere 3 days before release? 

 

Very first sentence of the very first post of this thread: "We are delaying the update 1 week til June 7th to allow time for public testing before its release."