Buying gold from AB Code

[Fujimo 7]

I always want to support the company that I enjoy playing the game they provide.  This game is no exception.

 

But I do not understand why I must pay almost a 15% premium for gold?

 

Todays exchange rate for 1 euro to a dollar is 1.36

 

The cost of 1 gold is 100 euros or should be 136.07 usd

 

If I buy gold today from the developer its going to cost me 156.43 or ~ 15% premium.

 

Anyway its moving me to purchasing gold from players and not the developers.

 

Thanks for reading

 

Fujimo

Edited June 24, 2014 by Fujimo

[Xor 683]

the players will always be cheaper.

 

whether rolf sells it for 1 dollar, or 500 dollars.. the players will still be cheaper

[Ruger 610]

Unfortunately Xor is right and the reason for this is because if it is not cheaper then the developer price and it is equal to or even just a fraction closer to the developer price then the players might as well buy from the developer and not the other players. 

[Nomadikhan 2,199]

He knows it's cheaper from players... what he's saying is apples for apples buying coins from the store should cost 'X' and yet it's wanting him to pay 'X +15%'

[Ruger 610]

He knows it's cheaper from players... what he's saying is apples for apples buying coins from the store should cost 'X' and yet it's wanting him to pay 'X +15%'

 

1g was only 100 euros pre-vat.

 

After vat it went up which is when it went up for the player market as well to 100 euro per 1g.

 

What I dont get is if I use the Xsolla system: 1g = 114 euro but if I use my paypal its 160e. 

[AnarchistRise 320]

Paypal is "terrible" with conversion rates

[Sevenless 385]

Been toying with the concept of suggesting they create a supported ingame system for coin transfers and take a transfer fee? That's no small amount of coding though to make a system like that secure.

 

The amount of money people are moving around this game and none of it going into dev hands makes me sad. They should get something for creating a vibrant player economy at least :/

[GorgonKain 355]

Remove rmt! Very few other games allow it, and it simply creates less demand for the developer's services. Remove it all together, and you will see increased ingame economy (via slush spending) and more money in the developer's pockets.

Because the community is so much smaller, it is much easier to ban people who rmt.

[AndreC 48]

Why ban RMT? Nothing is wrong with it. If people choose to spend their hard hearned money on a game they enjoy, let them. The only reason it is disallowed in other games is because its half of the game, easily botted, and a huge 'underground' operation. The reason it isn't a big deal here is because what does money do for you. Gets you better gear? Well, you have the gear, now get the skills. Now what.

All coins get you in wurm is land, and better stuff. Stuff that doesn't affect anyone in any way if you don't have the skill to use it proper.

 

Plus there is no way to track RMT unless someone is like "yeah, i just bought 100 gold from X over there"

 

The devs cant help taxes, nobody can. The internet (used) to be the only tax free haven. It has to come sooner or later, you know governments.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

GorgonKain, I do not disagree with your underlying sentiment, but that's like suggesting Asheron's Call ban all Decal (third party support) programs. Programs any other MMO would ban for -- that cook for you and do potions for you and cast spells for you and work out game mechanics for you.  Like it or not (and I didn't),third party "helper programs"  are something that the AC1 game developers from the very start gave enormous support to. The entire game in time evolved around these third party programs. As a result, there will never be an Asheron's Call without Decal   (unless Turbine's support for upcoming free private AC1 servers can allow private server GMs to decide this - and even then, today;s game is DESIGNED to use them.) It's become part of  Asheron's Call core personna. Even if every other MMO on the planet banned people for similar programs, AC1 would allow them. 

 

Same for Wurm and "free market" RMT. Rolf has always made it clear he finds it a major part of the game, that you can buy and sell whatever you like -- accounts, characters, silver & gold coin, dragon armors, etc. And that if you are a clever businessman, you can play for free or even for profit. That is not going to change since it has been part of Rolf's "vision of the game" from the very beginning, so might as well not waste any stress levels making a personal crusade. It is now too much a part of Wurm's core.

 

It's what Wurm is.   

Edited June 24, 2014 by Brash_Endeavors

[Issle 793]

I'm too busy or too bored to trade silver with players. I use the money I makee dancing to buy from the reliable services of the Wurm Shop.

[GorgonKain 355]

This game is could be botted just like any other. The gold, because RMT exists, equates to a fair amount of real currency, which is definate cause to break rules etc. And it would actually be very easy to track in the large amounts that present the biggeat problem.

[Kegan 3,925]

Been toying with the concept of suggesting they create a supported ingame system for coin transfers and take a transfer fee? That's no small amount of coding though to make a system like that secure.

 

The amount of money people are moving around this game and none of it going into dev hands makes me sad. They should get something for creating a vibrant player economy at least :/

I believe to be able to do that you have to be registered as a banking entity or hire a third party to do it for you that is.  

[Smilingcat 443]

Instead of complaining to have to pay more when buying from the shop than from players,

how about being grateful it is even allowed to sell game currency between players so that those who chose to deal with another player can get a better rate?

The "going rate" for player to player trade is lower, to make up for the risk between buying from the store and buying from a player.

But still, it is not THE "going rate" for coins. The standard is the shop rate, the player to player rate is shop - risk, 

and a bit of demand and supply in addition, which dips the price slightly into one or the other direction.

The 100 Euro= 100 Silver coins can not be assumed to be a standard.

If demand/supply , trade conditions or shop price of coins changes, the rate for player to player exchange changes as well.

 

I am truly grateful that I can sell some coins for real cash every now and then, to buy something else that I like.

Pocket money, but if one hobby pays for another, I enjoy it thoroughly :-)

I am very glad Rolf got a working economy with Wurm finally.

It is surely part of the game enjoyment for alot people to see they can produce something that creates real value.

Some are just economy oriented and enjoy that.

I tried in the past to get Wurm hooked up with a service that would establish a safe player to player exchange,

like most virtual worlds have it, but I guess that plan didn't work out yet.

Would be so nice if buyer and seller could with a click of a button get a nice rate and a safe sale/purchase.

Instead of haggling around, then hoping that the deal will go through.

The game owner/developer can still take a percentage for providing the service,

and offer the supply if demand is higher than what players offer to sell.

(Which is safe to assume that it is, because most play the game and never sell anything in their whole Wurm life.)

Looks like a logical next step to me.

And no, you don't need a bank license to do that.

There are various tax relevant requirements for it, which of course also depends on the country where the service is located, but it is all managable.
 

Edited June 25, 2014 by Smilingcat

[Kadore 926]

Instead of complaining to have to pay more when buying from the shop than from players,

how about being grateful it is even allowed to sell game currency between players so that those who chose to deal with another player can get a better rate?

The "going rate" for player to player trade is lower, to make up for the risk between buying from the store and buying from a player.

But still, it is not THE "going rate" for coins. The standard is the shop rate, the player to player rate is shop - risk, 

and a bit of demand and supply in addition, which dips the price slightly into one or the other direction.

The 100 Euro= 100 Silver coins can not be assumed to be a standard.

If demand/supply , trade conditions or shop price of coins changes, the rate for player to player exchange changes as well.

 

I am truly grateful that I can sell some coins for real cash every now and then, to buy something else that I like.

Pocket money, but if one hobby pays for another, I enjoy it thoroughly :-)

I am very glad Rolf got a working economy with Wurm finally.

It is surely part of the game enjoyment for alot people to see they can produce something that creates real value.

Some are just economy oriented and enjoy that.

I tried in the past to get Wurm hooked up with a service that would establish a safe player to player exchange,

like most virtual worlds have it, but I guess that plan didn't work out yet.

Would be so nice if buyer and seller could with a click of a button get a nice rate and a safe sale/purchase.

Instead of haggling around, then hoping that the deal will go through.

The game owner/developer can still take a percentage for providing the service,

and offer the supply if demand is higher than what players offer to sell.

(Which is safe to assume that it is, because most play the game and never sell anything in their whole Wurm life.)

Looks like a logical next step to me.

And no, you don't need a bank license to do that.

There are various tax relevant requirements for it, which of course also depends on the country where the service is located, but it is all managable.

 

If they didnt support it would move underground like most games, where would it end, ban all the players that sell anything for rl coin, which has went on for years.

[Sevenless 385]

I believe to be able to do that you have to be registered as a banking entity or hire a third party to do it for you that is.  

 

All told, you'd want to hire a third party to manage it simply due to differing expertise, but I don't think Blizzard registered as a banking entity for their RL marketplace.

[Kegan 3,925]

All told, you'd want to hire a third party to manage it simply due to differing expertise, but I don't think Blizzard registered as a banking entity for their RL marketplace.

 I know Rolf did mention talking to i think linden labs the people that sell coins in second life but nothing was ever said about it again so i guess it did not work out. I think it was in one of the Q&A from a year or two back but i did not find it in the little time i looked.

 

Edit: I found it. It was in the last minute questions at the bottom and it was virwox.com that he said he was talking with but that has been two years now so guess it did not pan out..

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/70781-qa-log-discussion/

Edited June 25, 2014 by Kegan

[Hussars 511]

All told, you'd want to hire a third party to manage it simply due to differing expertise, but I don't think Blizzard registered as a banking entity for their RL marketplace.

Doing transactions (even for a fee) within the game does not require "Banking" status, it's if they want to remove coin/items from the game by way of buying back from the players that you need the banking status.

 

Short version, you are establishing a conversion rate for your virtual item into "real money" making it a currency, where as just buying from the store is purchase of a virtual good.

 

Doing a secure transaction service is just that, a service.  So they could charge real world money for that service OR keep a percentage of the in-game resource as the service fee, or let you do it for free.  The moment CCAB were to give you euro/usd/etc... for those items/coin is where the trouble would come up.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Hussars

[fatboy 448]

those saying it doesnt cost much, Hows bout those that use USD pays that 100 usd for the 1 gold coin and the euros pay  156 euros. Then lets see how happy ya are. Also if im not mistake Vat does not apply to the usa, not sure though, thought i seen someone state it didnt. Ethier way to get a gold costs insane atm would cost 313 USD for 2 gold coins via shop,  Then rolf wonders why we all buy from other players, which i suspect is gonna die down alot soon..... *Dark Ages are upon us!*

[Lostone 93]

If Rolf was to remove the person to person selling of silver for Euros few things would happen and have to happen.

#1 all traders would not give out any coin , nether would tokens.

#2 25% of players would quit first week or 2.

 

Then another 30 % would stop playing after a few months having to buy over priced silver from the shop, because of some bull vat excuse.

I live in Canada I use paypal , it is not hard for Rolf to see were I live , I should not be charged VAT.

 

Have I purchased coin from other players? NO.

From the shop yes.

I would have 3 accounts going now instead of 1 if it was 5 euros a month still.

 

So instead of getting 15 Euros he is only getting 8 , great  math there sir.

 

I like Wurm and plan to play for as long as I can, but its 1 account only , exchange rate kills.

[Sevenless 385]

Doing transactions (even for a fee) within the game does not require "Banking" status, it's if they want to remove coin/items from the game by way of buying back from the players that you need the banking status.

 

Short version, you are establishing a conversion rate for your virtual item into "real money" making it a currency, where as just buying from the store is purchase of a virtual good.

 

Doing a secure transaction service is just that, a service.  So they could charge real world money for that service OR keep a percentage of the in-game resource as the service fee, or let you do it for free.  The moment CCAB were to give you euro/usd/etc... for those items/coin is where the trouble would come up.

 

Yup, and there's a massive load of other issues with offering that. But realistically, we're not talking about that. Just the player to player transfer of assets.

 

Also really irking thing. The easiest/most advertised option, paypall, charges 160e for 100s. But after USD>e conversion rates you can drop that a lot lower down to 117e for 100s using the other cash options.

 

If you really wanna support Rolf and crew, don't use the paypal option. Highly doubt he gets any of that extra charge, and there are other options available. Which are actually getting close to the going rate from players offering atm anyway.

[Hussars 511]

 

[...]. Also if im not mistake Vat does not apply to the usa, not sure though, thought i seen someone state it didnt. [...]

 

 

Yup, and there's a massive load of other issues with offering that. But realistically, we're not talking about that. Just the player to player transfer of assets.

 

Also really irking thing. The easiest/most advertised option, paypall, charges 160e for 100s. But after USD>e conversion rates you can drop that a lot lower down to 117e for 100s using the other cash options.

 

If you really wanna support Rolf and crew, don't use the paypal option. Highly doubt he gets any of that extra charge, and there are other options available. Which are actually getting close to the going rate from players offering atm anyway.

 

First, I'm not an accountant or Tax expert, this is just a very simple overview of the VAT system (and I mean really over simplified).  (Link to a USA Today article talking in more detail.)

 

::edit::  Actually the article does a better job of explaining it, so I'll leave it as that

Edited June 25, 2014 by Hussars

[Tikki 65]

yes i would love to see 1 usd =1 silver from the shop i would buy tons more at that rate = fair to me

[Klaa 4,871]

Rolf wanting to make money... the FIEND!!!

 

[bdew 2,462]

I'd easily pay 2x-3x the cost of prem for playing on a server that has no RMT at all, not from players and not from rolf. A server that would have an actual ingame economy (with ingame faucets and sinks) fully isolated from RL cash. Rolf wouldn't loose money due to people paying more for premium. And i'm pretty sure there are enough people like me who hate the P2W RMT model.

 

Just sayin.