Stop Butchering My Dead Mobs With Your Shovel!

[Reylaark 1,100]

But the deed owner did not kill it either, so he is in no way more entitled to it than anyone else. If those reserved butchering rights would exist, they'd go to the templar, not the deed owner. Then another idea would be to simply remove corpses if the Templar kills an animal. No pain, no gain.

The templar is in my employ. For his pain, he gains my silver. Why he needs my silver I'd probably rather not know, but it seems to suit him. For the pain of losing my silver, I gain the proceeds of his work. That may be assistance when I am online. That may be material gains from a corpse when his assistance was of no use to me.

This is not about the meat. How, where and when I get meat isn't really anyone else's concern.

This is about the sanctity of a deed owner's land and the respect we share for each other's homes.

If the underlying agenda here is more about meat farms and wanting to shut those down, that's not what the OP was talking about. Meat farms do not have "deed inhabitants" and thus while a convenient way to spark that conversation... that's not what this is about.

[shadowblasta 142]

Hey lets do this.... lets get someone to get rid of meatfarm Deeds in steeps and tundras and maybe... just maybe... he can complain a little ... looks its simple fix the animal AI so they dont do suicide runs and he can go out and kill some animals himself or do what my neighbor does, he asks me or a buddy to go out and hunt for him since its a win win, i get FS plus goodwill towards a neighbor, and he gets meat

[Reylaark 1,100]

Those planks took an effort on your part. Bugged AI bringing 100s of dead animals to your deed took none.

If you feel it is a bug, report it as such.

Someone butchering on another's deed for experience certainly put no greater effort into it than the deed owner. To the contrary. The butcher is mooching off of the deed owner's silver. Not the effort of the fight, not the effort of making the silver to spend on the templar, not even the effort of jumping over the fence to get to the corpse since Wurmians can't jump.

This is only about butchering a corpse on someone else's bought and paid for land, a corpse acquired by bought and paid for labor (even if such proceed is only tangential).

I honestly fail to see how anyone can say the butcher is in the right here.

[shadowblasta 142]

Not if I bought them with silver, like the Templar.

And you bought a guard not a hunter

[shadowblasta 142]

Someone butchering on another's deed for experience certainly put no greater effort into it than the deed owner. To the contrary.

He walked farther i have gone across servers to see random bodies laying all over the floor, most of which are starving animals anyways

[Dran 24]

I agree that dead animals on a deed should not be butcher-able by anyone but the owners/members of that deed. How is it right that you can't cut trees down, but you can butcher? It's all just altering something on deeded property. That's one of the points of the deed, to protect what's on it from interference by outsiders.

[shadowblasta 142]

I agree that dead animals on a deed should not be butcher-able by anyone but the owners/members of that deed. How is it right that you can't cut trees down, but you can butcher? It's all just altering something on deeded property. That's one of the points of the deed, to protect what's on it from interference by outsiders.

because trees take a long time to grow, animals come and go and the faulty AI makes them suicidal

[Alyeska 2,621]

The templar is in my employ. For his pain, he gains my silver. Why he needs my silver I'd probably rather not know, but it seems to suit him. For the pain of losing my silver, I gain the proceeds of his work. That may be assistance when I am online. That may be material gains from a corpse when his assistance was of no use to me.

This is not about the meat. How, where and when I get meat isn't really anyone else's concern.

This is about the sanctity of a deed owner's land and the respect we share for each other's homes.

If the underlying agenda here is more about meat farms and wanting to shut those down, that's not what the OP was talking about. Meat farms do not have "deed inhabitants" and thus while a convenient way to spark that conversation... that's not what this is about.

The proceeds of what you pay your templar for is safe land. That is your gain, you don't login and have a spider on your behind. That is what you pay him for - the corpses are just a sideproduct the templar doesn't give a rats ass about. Maybe this specific case is not about a meat farm, maybe it is. Anyone with a meat farm however would immensely rejoice to see this suggestion go through and are probably waiting for this themselves, so you can blame it on them for "regular" villages to not have the full privilege of the meat/skill from corpses ondeed.

It may not be the same intent, but it is the same thing he's doing; using a templar to get butchering skill and the items from those corpses by using an npc. However I do share your feeling about big deeds in deserts or stepped for just corpses, they do affect everyone elses gameplay up to where simple small villages get stuff like this. There was a suggestion about animals not going ondeed on their own (so they would if lured), and if that would be the case, i would abosuletly say, sure, corpses on a deed are the citizens only.

This whole thread is about the meat. It is about where it came from and ESPECIALLY about who butchered it.

Aslong as meat farms are an existing thing then sorry but no, please do not make it even easier for the "pay 2 win" people.

How about not having the templar drop a corpse? Would that make everyone happy? Nobody can be leeching off of someone elses land, there's no littering, and the templar still does what he gets paid for. Or, we could simply ask Rolf to fix animal AI so that animals stop acting like idiots and throw themselves onto deeds only to die. That way you can assure meat farms are history and I'm sure not a lot of people would have issues with someone luring a couple hell horses on their deed for meat and hides.

[shadowblasta 142]

Aly have the animals form raiding parties to over power the templar XD spider riding goblins FTW

[yarnevk 257]

And of course the opinions about meat farms vs. hunters vs. hoarders come out, telling others how not to or how to play, without recognizing this is a sandbox where people have different play styles. It provides no benefit to the player that butchers the mob, and only happens out of pure ignorance. I have done it myself when I was new as I simply was unaware of deed Karma rules. The simple fact if it is on paid for deeded land, the deeder owns it. This is not about mob pathing algorithms, this is not about hunters rights, nor is it about new players. This is about a paid for deed service not being to be used by the one paying for it.

I am not a meat farm, neither am I a hunter that can kill bears and spiders, nor am I a hoarder with 100 pigs to feed these 100 dead mobs you claim I get I pay for the templar to hunt for me so I can work creating my deed and crafting things there instead because those are things I enjoy doing. If I butcher it I get 15kg of meat which is just enough for me, my few dogs and a baby pig, a few animals I need and a few animals I enjoy, and hopefully my nephew if I can get him on. If I do not butcher I am lucky to have 3kg of meat, which is not enough but I am willing to go deeply starving affecting stamina and skilling so as not to have dead dogs in my pen. Either way I bury the corpse because I do not like having an ugly deed.

I cannot find another player to hunt for me because nobody I have ever met wants to be there at all hours I will be on, and do nothing but hunt. But since there are so many eager hunter out there, then PM me and I will pay you what I pay my guards as long as you produce enough meat everyday, and you stand guard while I work, and I will only pay at the end of one month satisfactory employment. BTW you also need to repair my fences and keep the lites filled, that is not to much to ask for I will be paying you tens of thousands of irons for this small service. You do not get to help me with my boat or in my blacksmithing shop as those are things I pay you to NOT to do so I can do. I expect you to hunt. If you want to hunt on MY land and keep the meat for yourself instead of handing it over, then you will need to be paying me for the right because it is not wild land it is MY land.

It comes down to paid players paying the templars to do a service for them things they do not want to do. If you have a deed you are paying for a service not to have to repair fences. If you do want to repair fences you do not need to pay upkeep for a deed. If you have a deed you are paying for the templar to keep the lights on, if you want to manage the tar/oil and flint/steel lites yourself you do not need to pay upkeep for a deed. If you do not want to be a hunter you pay the templars to do it for you. If you simply want to be safe from mobs then a free fence enclosure accomplishes the same thing (assuming it is away from the spawn radius so it is not the opposite being a hunting enclosure).

Anyways I have a very simple solution to the problem, that my neighbor has already started using. Turn guard aggro off when I log out, and turn guard aggro on when I log in. Now I no longer provide service to the community of keeping the wild aggro mob population down for the 21 hours I am offline so they can walk down the shore without leaving a body bag. I also will not consider it necessary to tell the owner of the body bag that I have their stuff please come get it if they want it. That is the price I have for leaving the butchering to me. It is much more new player unfriendly. Will not matter anyways because they will not be willing to climb around the mob fence open at the top of the hill so I can troll the spawn into my guards using my on-deed roads I built for me that go nowhere they want to go. They can swim around the property and develop swimming skills rather than butcher skills, and I will take their stuff when they drown and leave me stuff on my deed.

Now you can instead complain about unfriendly unsocial off-deeders with fence enclosures around their places, because if I do not receive benefit for my upkeep, I see no reason to pay it. I will have mobs that my guard tower can kill when I want them to , or when I want to get some FS. It will surround the spawn and any hunter that wants in can pay me, as they are not the ones that built the tower or the fence. Any noob that falls victims to nasty spawns outside the fence? Too bad for you my tower guards are too damn lazy to go around the fence to help you while they hang out in the guard house keeping warm snacking on their forage.. But yeah if you manage to kill something outside my fence, you can butcher it and keep it. Good luck to ya.

Edited January 3, 2013 by yarnevk

[shadowblasta 142]

Make a post in market about hiring hunters trust me they will come, and first mistake is having a pig if you barely make enough for yourself to eat XD those things go through food like a hot knife through butter, also butchered meat is determined by how well fed the creature is and how long the body is decomposing so if they werent butchered chances are they would have less meat anyways, most aggros are starving alot of the time

[yarnevk 257]

OK then since there are so many people here that no how to play the game maybe I should draft that ad here first.

Hunters Wanted

Most be able to be a deed villager. You will be given spawn and gate/door access rights only. Food, water, armour weapons are your responsibility, shelter will not be provided as you are a hunter I expect you to live in the wild woods. I am not interested in a friend for chat nor someone to help with my deed projects, you will only communicate with me letting me know that you got this under control. If neighbors complain that they find you annoying you will be terminated without pay and replaced with someone that has themselves under control.

Must be able to quickly kill spiders, bears, wolves, mountain lions, and wild cats without question even ones that are sly, raging, or hungry. Any hunter killing domestics will be terminated. If you lose control fighting crocs, scorpions, trolls or any champions; I expect you to pull yourself together, get your gear back on and get back to work. I refuse to hire additional help more than once per month, if you are unable to handle this workload, then please do not apply as termination is without pay.

Full or part time can be negotiated. Full time will be expected to be on the premises 24 hrs and 7 days (Earth), without any vacations including holidays. Pay is 1s per month (Earth), anyone caught hunting beyond the immediate deed boundaries or at neighbors will be terminated without pay. Anyone not producing corpses will be terminated without pay. Part time work will be prorated hourly, however part time workers are required to supply all contact information as I will demand hourly workers to be online at the deed at all times within a ten minute window of myself (or any villagers) or they will be terminated without pay.

Additional work can be negotiated. I expect fences to be repaired and lights to be filled and turned on/off, this work is paid at 25i per tile per month (Earth). Tools, supplies and materials are not provided, failure to perform these duties are grounds for termination without pay.

This job is not for recreational hunters. All corpses, their meat and animal byproducts are the property of your employer. Anyone caught butchering or stealing corpses will be terminated without pay. Employer death deemed to be due to failure of employee to perform their duties, will result in termination without pay.

Employment is not a contract, if another hunter says he will kill more mobs for the same silver, you will be terminated without pay.

Edited January 4, 2013 by yarnevk

[shadowblasta 142]

first off hunters work off deed, so paying 1s for that wont be enough

and they arent templars, templars are generally weak

Edited January 4, 2013 by shadowblasta

[fatboy 448]

*shrugs*, doesnt bother me one bit, i hunt, if i see its butcherd means less work i have to do. Not all would agree with my opinion, but ahh i got enough to do ^^

[MetalDragon 1,630]

Yes: if animals no longer wander ondeed (only chase you when you're attacked) which means you're putting the effort in.

No: if the above isn't included, it promotes random deeds in the woods or steppe

[RomaN 890]

I like grinding my butchering skill at meat farms.

-1

[Alyeska 2,621]

Glad to see your turning your guards off when you're offline. Its a step in the right direction.

[KunAlt 844]

I think the op have a point, while i don´t support meat factories, dead corpses inside a deed should pertain to the deed, and no one but deed inhabitants should have rigths to modify it (bury/butcher).

I´m not an active 100% hunter, but i like to hunt time to time and i´m slowly getting my fs up, same with butchering, and yes its anoyng like hell hunt in crowded areas and the need to have allways an eye in deed borders and such. But at the same time, hunters (and wish to be) need to realize that we don´t own every stupid mob out there.

A guy put some silver in creating a 15x15 deed with 3 templars in stteppe and get (not-free) meat and bits, its ok, nothing stop me to create a 60x60, no templars, free for all to pick up deed.

my 2 cents.

Edited January 4, 2013 by KunAlt

[meiyeeer 78]

Allowing wandering people to butcher corpses on someone elses land does nothing to help the problem you guys keep bringing up about working for your stuff. Why should they be allowed to benefit off of skilling on someone else's land?

+1 to only allow butchering to deed owner if it was killed by templars only. If a player helped, then butchering rights should go to that player, as should the items after butchering.

[Ayes 3,715]

I agree with Yarnevk, the game should be coded so that other players are *not* able to butcher corpses that are on deeds that are not their own or in an alliance with. This is the actual oversight in the change that was made that prevented others from picking up meat and items from corpses that they had butchered on others deeds. The change was not fully implimented properly, thus leaving this loophole for others to abuse.

Part of a spirit templars benifit is that when it kills mobs on a deed, the deed owner is then able to at their leisure (whenever they good and well feel like it) go around their deed and butcher the corpses for skill, meat and animal parts. They *pay* for this ability in contrast to the freeloader or abuser who cares little about the deed owners expense as long as they can get something out of it for themselves.

Best to fully impliment this change to the *paying* deed owners benifit by eliminating this butchering loophole that is either unknowingly or willfully abused by others to the deed owners detriment.

=Ayes=

[MetalDragon 1,630]

I used to play back at the start of Gold 2, Creatures used to avoid deeds when possible there was a loophole in the system where you could trick animals to enter the deed from the corner - This was considered a bug (so the concept of animals avoiding deeds was a feature). So i believe it is a bug that animals wander onto players deeds anyway. If that bug is fixed, you won't have to worry about players stealing your butchers while you sleep.

[axeblade346 164]

Image of the OP

On a more serious note.

+1 allowing us to butcher what we got a hit on. (Note : Priest can attack mobs where a deed prevents it so this must be looked into)

[whykillme 1,621]

I do totally agree with Xallo/Alyeska on this one, this suggestion is bad.

[Protunia 735]

Should not be able to butcher on some else property end of story you do not own it once it becomes property of the deed which means anything laying on the ground.

They use the guards to save their butts alot of times as it is..

Go make your own deed and hire a guard to kill stuff if you want to butcher corpses you did not kill.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Protunia

[Shrimpiie 3,665]

How about I butcher whatever I come across whether I kill it or not? I have a right to butcher something, and since the purpose of the guard is to defend against mobs, not as a way to procure meat or animal bits, making it ok for me to butcher the dead animals -.-