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yarnevk

Stop Butchering My Dead Mobs With Your Shovel!

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It is bad for your Karma to take my dead deed mobs that I pay the deed guard to kill. You can't bury them, you can't take them, you can't take the meat and things. So why does the game allow you to butcher my dead mobs?

If you want to skill butchering then make yourself a decent knife, and take up hunting or pay for a guard yourself.

If you need some meat, ask me and if I have extra because my butcher knife gets 5x the meat that your shovel left me, maybe I will be generous. I certainly will not be generous when you butcher things with your shovel, for if I did that my deed inhabitants would themselves starve.

If its bad for the Karma to take the corpse or it's meat, then make it bad for the Karma to butcher it.

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It is bad for your Karma to take my dead deed mobs that I pay the deed guard to kill.

That is exactly what they are designed to do. They did exactly what you pay them for, which is protect your land.

The person who butchers the animal is the one who puts the effort into gathering the meat, not you. All you did was simply log on and look around for meat to collect that so happened to walk onto your deed. People who actually hunt for their meat are harmed by this, if anything.

Honestly, the person who butchers the animal should be allowed to pick up whatever they butchered, not the deed owner. That and animals should be avoiding deeds unless lured into, which is what I suggested months ago: http://forum.wurmonl...animal-pathing/

-1

Edited by Xallo
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YOUR dead mobs? No. Aslong as your guard has killed them just because they walked on your land they're not yours. You put zero effort into getting the corpse there, its not yours.

+1 for re-allowing the picking up of corpses you butcher on someone else's deed and the ability to bury them. Maybe that will also cut down on those ridiculous meat farm Templar deeds.

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I disagree with the comments. The game is designed so you literally can do nothing with those corpses except butcher them. If you pay for a guard to do your dirty work for you and the corpse is on your land, it should become your property. Butchering things with a shovel when you can not collect the return, take the corpse, or even bury it should be looked at as griefing. Now, if the game mechanics were "corpses are fair game" then by all means I would not have this opinion. As the game currently works though you can do nothing with those bodies except make sure the player who has the deed only gets one meat out of it. Therefore you shouldn't be able to touch the corpses, just like you can't touch other things on deed.

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I disagree with the comments. The game is designed so you literally can do nothing with those corpses except butcher them. If you pay for a guard to do your dirty work for you and the corpse is on your land, it should become your property. Butchering things with a shovel when you can not collect the return, take the corpse, or even bury it should be looked at as griefing. Now, if the game mechanics were "corpses are fair game" then by all means I would not have this opinion. As the game currently works though you can do nothing with those bodies except make sure the player who has the deed only gets one meat out of it. Therefore you shouldn't be able to touch the corpses, just like you can't touch other things on deed.

Actually, it could be seen as a bug to where you cannot collect the parts of an animal after Butchering on deed. Not too long ago Butchering was changed so that the parts didn't appear in your inventory NOT because of deeds, but because people would overload inventories by butchering everything they hunted. If the deed mechanics allow you to butcher animals on deed regardless of any setting on the deed, then it's obvious that the corpses still do not specifically belong to the deed owner/cititzens. I believe that this was an overlook not spotted by most, even those who disagreed with the change like myself.

I find it strange that if you're allowed to butcher on deed, you cannot pick up the items that you create off the animal. You're performing an action to create something on someones deed. Obviously it's yours, but the mechanics are slightly flawed.

One example of this flaw is that you realize that an aggressive animal is following you, and you turn around to kill it. You manage to kill it, but then afterwards realize that you're actually on a deed that has no Spirit Templar. You proceed to butcher it, but simply because it's on a deed you're for some reason not entitled to own the parts because they're newly created items that were never in your inventory. Prior to the update, you actually would receive the parts in your inventory, but it is flawed now as i said before.

Edited by Xallo

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Hmm thought you could still bury it as well, since it will leave any inventory items on the ground or a death pile if it was butchered first.. interesting... I'll have to go try this tonight (on a deed with the owner's blessing of course) lol

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Hmm thought you could still bury it as well, since it will leave any inventory items on the ground or a death pile if it was butchered first.. interesting... I'll have to go try this tonight (on a deed with the owner's blessing of course) lol

You can bury the corpses on deed as well yes, but you still cannot pick them up, even if you butchered them.

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A corpse in the bin is worth two on the ground. When I was still in the habit of keeping a templar around to deprive me of fighting skill, I made a ritual twice daily of going around the edges of my deed and butchering. Once immediately before logging out, and once immediately after logging in. Still lost some mobs, but not as many.

It's frustrating, and I sympathize (compares to foraged grass tiles), but the game mechanics don't seem to agree that those are your corpses. Best response is probably to get more proactive about butchering bodies on your land.

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Hmmm i tend to see burying dead animals on others deathpile deeds as a cleanup service i should charge people from time to time XD with a benefit of butcher skill, why should someone get free lazy Skill because they hired a deed guard

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At first, I didn't respond because I thought this was kind of funny. I pictured the OP wearing business socks with sandals yelling "Keep off my lawn vermin!" It's happened to me as well. Shrugged it off as there'll be another buffet of meat soon enough.

But

Let's be clear. It is on his deed. Plain and simple.

He didn't put in the effort to kill it? No, he put in silver. You may not agree with the method, but the result is simple. The corpse is on his deed. The OP mentioned deed inhabitants. Doesn't sound like we're talking about a meat farm here**. We're talking about his home.

Let's imagine someone is trading corpses for drake armor. They import the corpses and butcher them. They are not killing the corpses, they are buying them. The OP bought those corpses using silver and a spirit guard rather than drake armor.

Let's say people were dropping off the corpses for the drake armor on someone's deed. Would I be well within my rights to stop by and butcher them all while the deed owners slept? With shovel or toothpick is irrelevant. They would be angry with me for disrespecting the sanctity of their land, of their space, of their property... and they would be absolutely right.

This is just one example of something that is not hard-coded, for whatever reason, but that people who have been around a while know to be part of an honour system we all live by.

To the OP: We're going to see a lot more of this as people either just don't know any better and will learn in time, or as people who certainly do know better rush to raise their little butchering number so they can win Wurm. Two ways of dealing with it:

  1. Shrug it off as not worth the aggravation and get back to hammering planks.

  2. Or, be vigilant about using tracking.

  • Contact them first as it may very well be a new player running scared. Work something out, you may get yourself a new villager.
  • If that fails, instruct the spirit guard you've paid for to keep the individual off the property you've paid for.

**meat farms are a different topic imo, and while the same principle is applicable from a reductionist standpoint, it isn't a practice I would choose to employ and do not encourage it.

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The way I see it, it is a bug that mobs wander on deed in the first place.

If you are not online to butcher the dead animals yourself, you have no right to complain.

People should really be allowed to pick up stuff from inside corpses on deeds anyway. There have been cases

where people tried to escape a mob by running into a deed, the mob killing their horse before the deed guard

could get to it, and people unable to retrieve their horse gear from their own dead horse.

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Let's be clear. It is on his deed. Plain and simple.

He didn't put in the effort to kill it? No, he put in silver. You may not agree with the method, but the result is simple. The corpse is on his deed. The OP mentioned deed inhabitants. Doesn't sound like we're talking about a meat farm here**. We're talking about his home.

Let's imagine someone is trading corpses for drake armor. They import the corpses and butcher them. They are not killing the corpses, they are buying them. The OP bought those corpses using silver and a spirit guard rather than drake armor.

Let's say people were dropping off the corpses for the drake armor on someone's deed. Would I be well within my rights to stop by and butcher them all while the deed owners slept? With shovel or toothpick is irrelevant. They would be angry with me for disrespecting the sanctity of their land, of their space, of their property... and they would be absolutely right.

Actually, this is completely irrelevant because it's involving a bartering transaction. When you buy it from an actual player, you can ask them to lock it in a house on your deed that they have access to while you're gone. When a guard kills an animal who wanders onto a deed, you can't lock away the corpse from being butchered unless you move it yourself, or butcher it before someone else gets to it. It's not reasonable to expect to be able to butcher carcasses that have been sitting on your deed for days on end simply because your guard was protecting your land. The corpses are fair game to whoever finds them first. If you participated in the killing of the animal, you should have first dibs on the butchering, as well as the produce.

You don't buy corpses from the token. If you want to buy corpses, you buy them from a player. As I said, this part of your comment is completely irrelevant and should be in no way used to orchestrate your opinion about butchering on deeds.

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If you can't get your sorry behind online to butcher all those poor cats and lions your templar is cutting down, I don't see why you should feel entitled to the butchering skill. It's already bad enough having to lead a spider 50 tiles away before killing it to get the meat from it

Edited by san_tropez
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The way I see it, it is a bug that mobs wander on deed in the first place.

If you are not online to butcher the dead animals yourself, you have no right to complain.

He has a right to complain. You may consider him in the wrong, but the act of expressing his grievance is separate from that.

People should really be allowed to pick up stuff from inside corpses on deeds anyway. There have been cases

where people tried to escape a mob by running into a deed, the mob killing their horse before the deed guard

could get to it, and people unable to retrieve their horse gear from their own dead horse.

This is a different situation.

However, that's the problem with saying ownership of a corpse on one's land is not hard-coded thus does not exist. By that logic, the scenario you describe IS hard-coded and the logic could be used to argue the right of the owner to the equipment. That does not make it any more correct.

Question, though not relevant to this thread: Would you be able to get your stuff back without the deed owner's help if you had branded the horse?

Otherwise I would respectfully suggest that when someone runs onto another's deed seeking benefit of that deed owner's spirit guard, they should understand the potential dangers. If the owner refused to return your gear, I'd say you have a right to complain. My own spirit guard would certainly not smile upon that owner should he ever seek shelter at my own deed.

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I thought guards were for protection not free meat?

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Let's imagine someone is trading corpses for drake armor. They import the corpses and butcher them. They are not killing the corpses, they are buying them. The OP bought those corpses using silver and a spirit guard rather than drake armor.

Let's say people were dropping off the corpses for the drake armor on someone's deed. Would I be well within my rights to stop by and butcher them all while the deed owners slept? With shovel or toothpick is irrelevant. They would be angry with me for disrespecting the sanctity of their land, of their space, of their property... and they would be absolutely right.

This outlines a major difference though. You can either barter or pay actual, human players to get corpses, just like you can buy or trade pretty much anything in wurms economy, or you basically have an NPC servant that creates those corpses for you for 1s a month. I have seen suggestions made about npc servants and those were burnt down to the ground so I'm somewhat stunned to see how common the practice of using an npc guard to fill your foodbin is.

As I see it, the guard kills the animal and there his task is done.

If the deed owner wants the corpses, he needs to go around and collect them, putting them out of anyone's reach. The other corpses should be free game, burying, butchering, I'd even say picking up the corpse and items in it.

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Actually, this is completely irrelevant because it's involving a bartering transaction. When you buy it from an actual player, you can ask them to lock it in a house on your deed that they have access to while you're gone. When a guard kills an animal who wanders onto a deed, you can't lock away the corpse from being butchered unless you move it yourself, or butcher it before someone else gets to it. It's not reasonable to expect to be able to butcher carcasses that have been sitting on your deed for days on end simply because your guard was protecting your land. The corpses are fair game to whoever finds them first. If you participated in the killing of the animal, you should have first dibs on the butchering, as well as the produce.

You don't buy corpses from the token. If you want to buy corpses, you buy them from a player. As I said, this part of your comment is completely irrelevant and should be in no way used to orchestrate your opinion about butchering on deeds.

The notion that bartering with a player is any more valid than bartering with the King, or whoever lends out spirit guards is a subjective matter. My spirit guard will attack any dangerous animal on my land. If it is dead on my land, you did not kill it. You may have participated in its killing, and you're very welcome for my spirit guard's services. I have yet to send anyone a bill.

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If you are not online to butcher the dead animals yourself, you have no right to complain.

So you should be able to walk up and pick up the stack of planks I have next the farmhouse I am building? I mean they are just laying there after all.

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My spirit guard will attack any dangerous animal on my land. If it is dead on my land, you did not kill it.

But the deed owner did not kill it either, so he is in no way more entitled to it than anyone else. If those reserved butchering rights would exist, they'd go to the templar, not the deed owner. Then another idea would be to simply remove corpses if the Templar kills an animal. No pain, no gain.

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So you should be able to walk up and pick up the stack of planks I have next the farmhouse I am building? I mean they are just laying there after all.

If your Templar made them, absolutely.

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If your Templar made them, absolutely.

That is failed logic at best. So what about going around to other people's deeds and snuffing their lamps and such that "the templar keeps lit" now? This is silly. On the freedom servers you pay real life money for your spot in the game world. Whatever happens there should be "yours" until the deed expires. On Chaos or Epic I could see your side of this, but not on Freedom.

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So you should be able to walk up and pick up the stack of planks I have next the farmhouse I am building? I mean they are just laying there after all.

Those planks took an effort on your part. Bugged AI bringing 100s of dead animals to your deed took none.

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Those planks took an effort on your part. Bugged AI bringing 100s of dead animals to your deed took none.

Not if I bought them with silver, like the Templar.

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This should really just be another setting in the options for settlements:

Allow Butchering? yes/no

Easy to say, harder to implement. Still should be an option.

Edited by Amikron
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