Stop Butchering My Dead Mobs With Your Shovel!

[Ronnie 64]

Butchering on deeds your not apart of should be ban able

Its silly a person can come by and butcher the dead wild life on your deed. Its not cool to be a "poacher" man.

How would you like it If I were to come onto your deed and mine out your Utmost vein you paid coin to get placed there

Meat is a resource in wurm just as much as metals are. Need meat to cook and grind your priests Soul skills up

Butchering on others deeds should be seen as tempt to steal / grieffing

Yes a rod might cost 50s but pays its self off in 1month with a years worth of smithing left in it.

Were as 1 templare is 1s a month. And 1k meat sells at 1s on most servers. So that being said, takes the templare a little while to make its upkeep in meat goods

Edited January 10, 2013 by Ronnie

[shadowblasta 142]

Butchering on deeds your not apart of should be ban able

Its silly a person can come by and butcher the dead wild life on your deed. Its not cool to be a "poacher" man.

How would you like it If I were to come onto your deed and mine out your Utmost vein you paid coin to get placed there

Meat is a resource in wurm just as much as metals are. Need meat to cook and grind your priests Soul skills up

Butchering on others deeds should be seen as tempt to steal / grieffing

Yes a rod might cost 50s but pays its self off in 1month with a years worth of smithing left in it.

Were as 1 templare is 1s a month. And 1k meat sells at 1s on most servers. So that being said, takes the templare a little while to make its upkeep in meat goods

Either way your suggesting a meat farm and thats not cool at all... i bury the bodies in other people deeds because its Ugly as hell to have all those bodies just laying there rotting, if you wanna butcher and leave a meatpile to the deed owner then let it be , they get the meat we get the skill, its not like they got the kill themselves, the Templar is there to protect not produce meat, if your not on you really dont have the right over the corpse until you walk over and butcher it yourself

Make creatures less stupid or make templar only target those creatures that are targetting others

[Hussars 511]

Either way your suggesting a meat farm and thats not cool at all... i bury the bodies in other people deeds because its Ugly as hell to have all those bodies just laying there rotting, if you wanna butcher and leave a meatpile to the deed owner then let it be , they get the meat we get the skill, its not like they got the kill themselves, the Templar is there to protect not produce meat, if your not on you really dont have the right over the corpse until you walk over and butcher it yourself

Make creatures less stupid or make templar only target those creatures that are targetting others

To clarify, you'd be fine with the deed owner butchering but not burying the corpse on deed?

While I know that sounds like me being wise guy, I'm serious. Because if someone wishes to leave a corpse on their deed (butchered or not), why can't they? ::edit insert:: to clarify my question, specifically if they picked up a corpse that they killed or a templar/guard killed, on the deed or not, and placed it on their deeded land.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Hussars

[shadowblasta 142]

im fine with that, i know corpse collectors and i carry champ bodies to their deeds for the lols, and they thank me

[Joanavon 553]

Hmm. Well it would seem then that the only solution is to somehow drive down the price of meat in the marketplace enough so that the economics of these meat factories are completely unprofitable. No deed rule changes would be required.

[KunAlt 844]

Either way your suggesting a meat farm and thats not cool at all... i bury the bodies in other people deeds because its Ugly as hell to have all those bodies just laying there rotting, if you wanna butcher and leave a meatpile to the deed owner then let it be , they get the meat we get the skill, its not like they got the kill themselves, the Templar is there to protect not produce meat, if your not on you really dont have the right over the corpse until you walk over and butcher it yourself

Make creatures less stupid or make templar only target those creatures that are targetting others

So i pay for the templar, i pay for the upkeep, i´ve payed to buy the tiles, but i don´t have the rigth to the corpses, you on the other hand pay nothing, care nothing and feels your self with the rigth to come and grief me just beacuse you pertain to the migthy guild of Wurm Hunters.

And i´m still w8ing for someone post the undeniable proof of ¨The Templar is there to protect not to produce meat¨, something that a lot of people like to say just because they think the game mechanics should fit into his own idea of what the game is or not.

[shadowblasta 142]

So i pay for the templar, i pay for the upkeep, i´ve payed to buy the tiles, but i don´t have the rigth to the corpses, you on the other hand pay nothing, care nothing and feels your self with the rigth to come and grief me just beacuse you pertain to the migthy guild of Wurm Hunters.

And i´m still w8ing for someone post the undeniable proof of ¨The Templar is there to protect not to produce meat¨, something that a lot of people like to say just because they think the game mechanics should fit into his own idea of what the game is or not.

Hey hey hey... i have my own deed my own templar and my own tiles and all corpses taken out by my templar i either carry and drop it off deed for noobs or bury them, no thrill of the hunt no meat for shadow ... like i said i payed for a guard not a hunter, if my villagers want the meat they can have at it, if you have a deed you have cows, your hungry punch a cow... your argument isnt really valid, the kill belongs to the killer, no killer, no claim, no meat

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion

[Joanavon 553]

So i pay for the templar, i pay for the upkeep, i´ve payed to buy the tiles, but i don´t have the rigth to the corpses, you on the other hand pay nothing, care nothing and feels your self with the rigth to come and grief me just beacuse you pertain to the migthy guild of Wurm Hunters.

And i´m still w8ing for someone post the undeniable proof of ¨The Templar is there to protect not to produce meat¨, something that a lot of people like to say just because they think the game mechanics should fit into his own idea of what the game is or not.

Butchering with 2ql shovels is free. Freedom Free

[Hussars 511]

im fine with that, i know corpse collectors and i carry champ bodies to their deeds for the lols, and they thank me

Sorry, been busy and meant to reply before now..

I think I needed to clarify my point better.

What I was asking is that, if you come upon a deed with corpses, no matter how many, how do you not know that it isn't a corpse collector? Maybe they like having the corpses on their deed for their own reasons? I remember a recent thread talking about heads on spears and such (and some odd conversations in-game as well). So if it is someone who just likes having unbutchered corpses on their deed, how do you know if you never talk to the person?

More importantly, why is it okay for those collectors to leave/have corpses on their deeds (because lets face it, you have no way of knowing who or what really killed the creature unless you were there while it was doing so), but not okay for others to do the same?

This conversation is really about a couple of points, and only one of them is the existance of meat mills.

• Hunters claim griefing by paid deeds with aggro guards (Loss of hunting targets and FS gains)
  
• Hunters/FS gains advocates appear to be admitting to potential griefing (or promoting the potential griefing of) deeds "thought" to be meat mills (butchering corpses on deed with the intent to produce as little resource from those corpses as possible) - ::Side note: I say "thought" because only in 1 or 2 cases has anyone provided examples of a true meat mill, most arguments/statements are based simply on corpses left behind on a deed by aggro spirit guards no matter the reason, so to be more balanced, I will assume it is based on "Meat Mill" status::
  
• AI for aggro guards
  
• Cost of guards to include "hunting" as well as normal protection
  
• Animal pathing/AI
  

So if we look to target/remove meat mills, without directly/potentially griefing a deed or system changes, we'd need to do a couple of things:

• intercept their meat supply before it gets on deed
  
• Refuse to purchase goods of any type from known "meat millers"
  
• When selling to know meat mills, increase the costs of your wares to help make it economically difficult for them to maintain operations.
  

With system changes:

• Change animal pathing/AI to keep them off deeded land, potentionally of perim as well since there would still be "easy" wasy to lure animals on deed using alts.
  

Or continue to potentially grief their deed by butchering corpses on select deeds. Because you (as a generalized statement) are targetting specific deeds for this action, as shown above in previous responses, there needs to be a ruling on this as to if it is griefing or not.

It's not fair to either side, the hunters want things to hunt (or FS advocates want things to kill in general) and their own deeds may have set up in areas just as ore "hunters" were looking for their resource of choice.

So would an easier solution be to remove the deed/population impact on spawners?

Edited January 10, 2013 by Hussars

[Kortanna 20]

Personally I have a friend who has guards, protecting their mine. But recently they had to turn off their guards because people were purposely dragging mobs to their mine so guards would kill them. They were not fighting them, they were just luring them there. After even only a hour or 2 of this.. imagine the HUGE mess we then had to clean up. Yes we got free meat and other things, but we don't have guards there just for this purpose. Do I believe they should be able to then butcher and get the goods. No. They did not do the work, they lured them in for easy guard kill, and yet still want to butcher and take the meat. And we would be left with cleaning up the huge mess afterwards. Now in retrospect, if say your own tamed/horse dies on a property and you need to get goods from that.. I believe you should be able to. I have nothing against that idea. But I do not want people just being able to butcher and take anything they want from a deed that guards killed. Some of us, myself included, don't want to train up fighting and it's nice being able to have the meat/other items the mobs drop.

[Hussars 511]

I just started using the KoS features and turning off aggro hunting, was easier than not using the guards at all. A lot of fun when you get a random /tell asking why the guards are attacking them and not the animals/creatures lol

Edited January 10, 2013 by Hussars

[shadowblasta 142]

Corpse collecters have a nice pile inside a house thats how... corpses decay too fast outside

[Hussars 511]

Not always, I used to leave corpses in a pile just because I could, granted it was before I knew the value of some of the harvestables, but if that is what someone wants to do with their land, why not?

Again though, it just comes off as trying to influence or control what someone decides to do on "their" deed and really looks to be a creative way to use a possible problem/issue of the deed permission system.

So really, the two most likely outcomes:

• It becomes a policy to treat it as an exploit/griefing if asked to stop and you don't
  
• Remove the ability to butcher (or bury) on a deed you do not have permission to harvest anything else on (or add a permission setting for it in deed management).
  

Because anything that reduces the use of, or the need for those spirit templars is not likely, it is too much of a money sink currently, and most AI/pathing changes would do just that.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Hussars

[shadowblasta 142]

Then you sir are not a corpse collector i have a friend with a house filled with champ bodies and his fallen buddies just littering his little church

[KunAlt 844]

Hey hey hey... i have my own deed my own templar and my own tiles and all corpses taken out by my templar i either carry and drop it off deed for noobs or bury them, no thrill of the hunt no meat for shadow ... like i said i payed for a guard not a hunter, if my villagers want the meat they can have at it, if you have a deed you have cows, your hungry punch a cow... your argument isnt really valid, the kill belongs to the killer, no killer, no claim, no meat

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion

You are rigth, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and the underlined is your own vision about the game, and maybe, there is a slim chance that another people think different, and even those horribe sinners that not colude with your wonderfull ideas have the rigth to choose his own personal view about the game.

Edited January 11, 2013 by KunAlt

[shadowblasta 142]

hey if your gonna whine about hunters whining why cant i push my point across about people who want free meat whining?

[Joanavon 553]

the fact of the matter is. the templars are when used in this manner, an automated program. they work 24/7 independently and without fail. they are like buying a built in bot to harvest meat with.

[joedobo 1,187]

Whatever happens on a player's deed should be under that deeds discretion, including butchering rights. Please prevent foreigners of my deed from butchering on deed tiles.

[violetann 43]

-1 too many grief deeds out there where people plant deeds with NOTHING on in the middle of steeps and sand etc just collect animals its meta gaming guys. make guards auto bury corpses so people can't just spam them over the map to collect meat. what the heck is the point of having a food bar if your not going to bother spending time to collect food? meat is VERY cheap, hunters trade it for items/imps. you can BSB meat now, just talk to a hunter and trade for some corn etc if you hate getting it so much.. I use to trade with a hunter who delivered mass amounts of cooked meat into my BSB for weapon imps.

Edited March 22, 2013 by violetann

[joedobo 1,187]

make guards auto bury corpses

Players pay money for the benefits guards deliver. Coding them to do something disadvantageous for their employer (deed) isn't a good solution.

I would support changes to mob AI so they don't go near deeds. But when it comes to who can do what on deeded land, the players how have payed for the right to control said land should be calling the shots.

[Protunia 735]

This whole thing is left this way because of PvP end of story.

It has something to do with corpses.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Protunia

[JackBurton 903]

Why are there guards on Freedom servers anyway? I thought it was supposed to be the PvE server, not the NPCvE server.

[Hussars 511]

Why are there guards on Freedom servers anyway? I thought it was supposed to be the PvE server, not the NPCvE server.

I finally have a reason to use this quote!

“When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail."

::Spirit Templar comes running:::

Edited March 22, 2013 by Hussars

[JackBurton 903]

I finally have a reason to use this quote!

“When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail."

::Spirit Templar comes running:::

That is awesome.

[lawurm 337]

I love my templers, never really cared if someone butchered mob's on my deed left the products or took them.

main reason I have them is for personal protection, kos if needed and traveller protection over roads.

1 of my deeds is a 2 templer meat grinder that I constantly change from 1 or 2 templers given mob traffic around the deed and when I log my alt for hunting and grind fs specially on scorps and crocs due to low fs at the moment (templar = tank)

Actually if your in an alliance there is nothing stoping you or other alliance members from picking up corpse on your or any alliance members deed. Best place for delivery of corpse would be a building on deed with the delivery person as a guest. or a pen with a locked gate and a spare keys made for the drop off people.

Don't want corpse butchered on your deed?

PRO TIP - Grind - Tracking - Use KOS. Kill them all This is what you really pay a deed for, space and control. you are the law on your own deed if you want to be.

+1 to letting players take what they butcher, in alliance or not. On or off deed.

off hand random suggestion - maybe its possible (no idea on the pvp sever situation with this) to have a corpse be buried to pickup the goodies? then there is no evidence left for anyone to say hay that's my corpse were is my meat!

had to add this, if u own an unfenced plot of land then you will get random people on it from time to time, live on a corner house in rl with no fence and an open yard, tones of people cut your lawn and next thing u know you got a footpath ground into the front lawn. now its up to you to put a fence in or run out with a bat yelling "get-off-my-lawn" or maybe ring the care-bare police so they can suggest 20mins after they arrive to maybe put a fence up....

Edited March 23, 2013 by lawurm