Valrei International: Resource Nodes & More!

[Hailiah 444]

[14:56:03] <Hailiah> [wrapped salted popcorn][wrapped sweet popcorn][wrapped plain popcorn]

[Finnn 3,321]

@Lisimbaput my replies in some ai or even tcl eggdrop and you can have a broken record chat with it and still find it interactive an entertaining at this point.. 

you're arguing to have a chat, you have no goal with your "discussion";

I'm out, peace o7

 

If you have a serious question.. reread my reply to your "questions" and figure a decent point to ask.

[Lisimba 779]

6 minutes ago, Tor said:

It's my conclusion and not complain. Of course it's expected not to receive it well since It's the main and first argument you seem to have for everything.

 

I don't know what that sentence means.

 

6 minutes ago, Tor said:

You may take it as sarcasm or criticism and if it's  constructive or not it's all up you.

 

Constructive criticism is a real thing, that's not up to the reader.

 

6 minutes ago, Tor said:

The main criticism for this very specific subject is why not have it as addition and not as replacement while both old and new arguably works relatively well and no, more items into the gathering pool is not argument why the nodes are better then old for/bot since it could have been added all the same easy.

 

Yes, *that* is a real criticism.

 

It was discussed in the test thread though, starting about here:

 

6 minutes ago, Tor said:

Let me guess the next update, archeology ruins/nodes/whatever you wanna call it, spawn all around for you  to pretend you exploring, because going in straight line is not a gameplay, after you done with exploring your server with the nodes. With a huge twist of course, you got the frags now from magranon fissure addeed! Because it's very useful in high end archeology. It's going to be grand. I am sure you or anyone else can string all kind of narratives how that going to be fail, or how it's going to be great, or how it's just waste of time and it's just pretending we do something what players want.

 

And *this* sort of thing doesn't help anywhere.

[Tor 531]

8 minutes ago, Lisimba said:

And *this* sort of thing doesn't help anywhere.

 

Of course it helps, we need more of this and less narratives why vanilla is better then chocolate

[Hailiah 444]

16 minutes ago, Tor said:

Let me guess the next update, archeology ruins/nodes/whatever you wanna call it, spawn all around for you  to pretend you exploring, because going in straight line is not a gameplay, after you done with exploring your server with the nodes. With a huge twist of course, you got the frags now from magranon fissure addeed! Because it's very useful in high end archeology. It's going to be grand. I am sure you or anyone else can string all kind of narratives how that going to be fail, or how it's going to be great, or how it's just waste of time and it's just pretending we do something what players want.

 

 

Archaeology nodes +1 I like that idea, would make it easier to find archaeology areas that haven't been obviously terraformed, or have been reclaimed from terraforming.

Might also allow the devs to bring in leather fragmented stuff, cloth fragmented stuff, bits of broken wagons, broken furniture, add more brainstorming here...

But I guess that would have to retain the fragments from tiles as well...

 

What the node system also does imo is make it easier for the devs to bring in new resources/plants/sprouts, without us having to trawl through 100s of tiles to find the resource.

They could say bring in Aloe, from the desert nodes, and we could use that in healing for burns.

I can remember trying to find, cocoa, tea and coffee, when they came in, doing that searching tile after tile just to be able to plant it in a pot to reproduce, needle in a haystack...

 

The devs can now, either add in a new node or add the items to an existing node.

Opens up new options for Easter, Halloween and Christmas, events...Christmas tree node...Christmas present node...Easter Egg node...Spooky nodes...and add more brainstorming here...

Could link it to treasure maps again like the Easter one we had, I guess the dead bunny was sort of a node anyway, map to find our Christmas tree node or whatever.

[Damascus 381]

Starting to think some people get payed by the word or responce  on this forum .

[Simyaci 425]

12 minutes ago, Damascus said:

Starting to think some people get payed by the word or responce  on this forum .

 

I think the more emotionally attached, the longer the response. 

[lyhrinae 275]

14 minutes ago, Damascus said:

Starting to think some people get payed by the word or responce  on this forum .

Come now, you know that's not reasonable based on what we know about Wurm right now.

[Silberry 27]

I don't really understand this new system fully, but my current thoughts are:

Do you need a lot of skill to harvest from these nodes and how does this affect new and non premium players?

Will it really encourage people to leave the safe zones more? When I was very new I couldn't carry much with me so I was used to foraging for food/cotton 'on the road' when travelling (and I still do that nowadays as I'm not really a farmer/cook). If this is not possible any more it will probably discourage me to travel for a longer time, it's too unpredictable.

How will this play out on servers like Cadence where more people will have to share the same nodes? When I was on the new servers I was surrounded by deeds, barely any mobs or animals were spawning. Won't this be the same with nodes?

Why should I go looking for nodes when I have all the herbs and spices in planters already? Will this actually bring anything new in terms of decorative elements (putting cacti in planters, for example).

I agree that it sounds just like you're making something that's always been there more difficult. In my opinion, foraging for food should not take skill or a lot of time, and most new players will be lost if they can't find food and cotton nodes fast. What's next - add a mini game if you're taking water out of a well? I'd rather have some actual weather themed updates where you have to dress for winter or for the desert (and maybe it could add better looking craftable clothes).

The actual looking for nodes could be fun but I won't do this for herbs or things I've already got, just for the novelty probably. If it gives me something nice, that's great, but I hope I won't have to depend on it.

[Lisimba 779]

11 minutes ago, Silberry said:

I don't really understand this new system fully, but my current thoughts are:

Do you need a lot of skill to harvest from these nodes and how does this affect new and non premium players?

 

You can get stuff out even with pretty much zero skill. You can try this out on the test server right now.

 

11 minutes ago, Silberry said:

Will it really encourage people to leave the safe zones more? When I was very new I couldn't carry much with me so I was used to foraging for food/cotton 'on the road' when travelling (and I still do that nowadays as I'm not really a farmer/cook). If this is not possible any more it will probably discourage me to travel for a longer time, it's too unpredictable.

 

You can still do this just like before. You can also get wool now, which can heal like cotton.

 

11 minutes ago, Silberry said:

How will this play out on servers like Cadence where more people will have to share the same nodes? When I was on the new servers I was surrounded by deeds, barely any mobs or animals were spawning. Won't this be the same with nodes?

 

There are quite a lot of nodes, and even if an area is entirely locked up with deeds there are large strips of perimeter between the deeds that you can harvest on.

 

Mobs have an additional problem in that they have spawn caps, and on high population servers a large part of the cap can be taken up by animals on deed. So if there are enough horse breeders with large stables for example, there won't be many horses spawning in the wild. As far as I know, nodes don't work like this. You will have to compete with other people who want to harvest the same area, but that's no different from now. But you will be able to easily see if there's something to be harvested, as opposed to having to try all the tiles.

 

11 minutes ago, Silberry said:

Why should I go looking for nodes when I have all the herbs and spices in planters already?

 

You basically shouldn't. Use planters for anything you need regularly, just like with the current system. However, sassafras and nettles for example can't be planted, so you have to get those in the wild (again, same as current system). The new system will also make Fo holy site ingredients available at high skill.

 

11 minutes ago, Silberry said:

Will this actually bring anything new in terms of decorative elements (putting cacti in planters, for example).

 

Not that I know of.

 

11 minutes ago, Silberry said:

I agree that it sounds just like you're making something that's always been there more difficult. In my opinion, foraging for food should not take skill or a lot of time, and most new players will be lost if they can't find food and cotton nodes fast. What's next - add a mini game if you're taking water out of a well? I'd rather have some actual weather themed updates where you have to dress for winter or for the desert (and maybe it could add better looking craftable clothes).

 

But that sounds like you already decided that it will take a lot of skill and time. Why is that? I mean, I've tried it on the test server with low skills, and it seems noobs will be alright.

 

11 minutes ago, Silberry said:

The actual looking for nodes could be fun but I won't do this for herbs or things I've already got, just for the novelty probably. If it gives me something nice, that's great, but I hope I won't have to depend on it.

 

You would depend on the new system about as much as you'd depend on the current system, I figure.

[TheTrickster 2,290]

12 hours ago, Finnn said:

terrain with no interaction.

I have to say, I fundamentally don't understand this claim.  One of the many little annoyances in Wurm is having to interact with the "tile" instead of with the actual terrain (e.g. you don't actually cut down a tree, but instead "cut down" a tree tile).  This new method seems more like actual interaction with less immersion-break than the old foraging/botanizing.  A player can now see whether there is something to gather up or not in the actual game view before performing an action rather than in a text log after approaching the tile and performing a [very boring and monotonous to me] action.  

 

That said, I also fundamentally do understand the complaint about this not being a new addition but is instead a compulsory replacement.  I am not sure how it would be best implemented as a complement rather than replacement, but it doesn't look like a lot of development thought went into how to enhance the current process rather than simply ditch-and-replace.

 

Also, nodes are not quite loot boxes.   Yet.

.

EDIT:  Oh, and requiring specialized magical tools in order to get the most out of nodes is a terrible idea.  

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by TheTrickster

[SmeJack 5,807]

12 hours ago, Archaed said:

so focused on what you lose. 

 

This right here is the problem, why does there have to be a loss. New features and content do not have to come at the cost of old ones and none of the reasons so far have convinced me otherwise.

[Ostentatio 1,971]

7 hours ago, Tristanc said:

Just a note, I believe the current Test Server has a larger concentration of nodes for testing the new foraging/botanizing system than they are planned to be implemented when the system goes live.

 

Standard testing process so those trying a new feature out / doing the tests don't have to devote as much time to experience the change as the players will when the feature implemented.

 

 

For what it's worth, this is not true. One reason for the public testing period has been to get feedback on resource node availability, which would be undermined if conditions didn't at least roughly reflect what they will be on the live servers.

[Archaed 2,284]

1 hour ago, SmeJack said:

 

This right here is the problem, why does there have to be a loss. New features and content do not have to come at the cost of old ones and none of the reasons so far have convinced me otherwise.

Because stacking systems ontop of systems is a bad idea. The game needs to revisit old mechanics and ensure they provide adequate experiences. It's about evolution

[SmeJack 5,807]

Evolution can come without sacrifice

[Coach 196]

1 hour ago, Archaed said:

Because stacking systems ontop of systems is a bad idea. The game needs to revisit old mechanics and ensure they provide adequate experiences. It's about evolution

Stacking systems ontop of systems can be a good idea as long as they provide adequate experiences.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Coach

[Archaed 2,284]

3 minutes ago, Coach said:

Stacking stytems ontop of systems can be a good idea as long as they provide adequate experiences.

🙃

[Chakron 1,025]

3 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Also, nodes are not quite loot boxes.   Yet.

 

Ooh that's a good idea, there could be something you buy in the Silver shop where you get better odds on resource nodes. Maybe $5 per 4 hours or something along those lines?

[Finnn 3,321]

imagine we have same "content model" as replacement for archaeology.. you can't do archaeology anywhere anymore, big update, you can only do archaeology at garbage piles and rubble which are randomly spawning across the land, big update, you can get 4 new items - wooden brush, spoon fragments, brass lamp fragments and shark statue very rare fragments.

 

✨Shark fragments🎇!!!! "we need these...", very rare drops;

 

That's what it is... one very good alternative comparison.. you can interact with anything and suddenly you can't... you can live your life just fine with none of the shark or other fragments but nobody cares, "you need them" now and that's the deal, take them!

[TheTrickster 2,290]

8 hours ago, Archaed said:

Because stacking systems ontop of systems is a bad idea. The game needs to revisit old mechanics and ensure they provide adequate experiences. It's about evolution

Then create, oh, parallel systems so they aren't stacked.  

Currently, one can acquired orange tree sprouts by either foraging or cutting the sprout from a tree that is sprouting.  Those are two parallel systems - not stacked.  It didn't have to be one or the other so that when for instance foraging was implemented then sprouts could no longer be cut from trees.

[Cista 430]

20 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

Currently, one can acquired orange tree sprouts by either foraging or cutting the sprout from a tree that is sprouting.  

 

One of them is redundant since there are now actual orange trees in the game.

 

There used to be no orange trees to gather from. As a temporary way of providing this new type, we could gather them from the random tile loot table. But now there are beautiful orange trees in the game, which are the source of the sprouts.

 

Do you really not see how that works? Or would you in fact prefer to be able to get all sprouts, birch, oak, the whole canoodle, from random nondescript tiles? 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Cista

[Lisimba 779]

9 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Also, nodes are not quite loot boxes.   Yet.

 

The issue with loot box systems for monetization is that they prey on people in a very similar way to slot machines, and on top of that the games they're in have a strong incentive to structure everything else to funnel you towards those loot boxes, which turns games to ######. Gambling in casinos is strongly regulated for good reasons.

 

If you don't actually pay real money (or a substitute) to get access to nodes, then even though they give randomized output, the enshittification incentives are just not there. So it's pretty much safe.

 

9 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

.EDIT:  Oh, and requiring specialized magical tools in order to get the most out of nodes is a terrible idea.  

 

You basically don't though. As far as I've seen you can harvest nodes with no tools at all, the results rely just on your skill plus RNG. You can now use CoC on your gloves to get additional skill, but that just brings forage/botanize in line with things that have their own tools to put enchants on.

[Milkdrop 278]

I really did not want to get involved in this mess of an argument but here goes...

 

My point of view is "I couldn't care less", that is not because it does not affect me in one way or another, but I do view it as a nerf on the silver wallet.

The moment you can no longer do it "besides" something else, because you have to play actively to look for nodes etc. instread of just moving one tile further ahead and hitting the hotkeys... you get the idea.

So far I did Forage / Botanize on my Fo priest, I could do it relaxed besides doing something more attention heavy like treasure maps on my main.

This option of doing it relaxed besides goes away and with that the occasional coins I would get.

Then add to it, that to keep having a clean deed we are forced to hire a spirit templar now... I haven't had one of these guys around in a decade and I have zero use for it, but now I need it so I wont have these nodes poping up? Yea great idea, should need one to refuel lamps on deed as well and introduce a requirement for a filled oil barrel on deed along with it.

 

Also, my mains Forage and Botanize skills are in the single digit range, cause I used my Fo for that, I am not gona skill it up a second time all over again, too tedious and time consuming.

I had the skill high enough on my Fo, this update pretty much takes that away from me, because I wont be going out and about on a weak Priest to "explore", which of course is a "me problem".

 

I have gotten to the point of stopping to care what is given and is taken away from us, at one point it will be the final change that will just make me quit for good and then thats it.

Feedback or otherwise is pretty much ignored and downplayed anyhow, so why bother debating over things, not worth the stress.

[Lisimba 779]

5 hours ago, Finnn said:

imagine we have same "content model" as replacement for archaeology.. you can't do archaeology anywhere anymore, big update, you can only do archaeology at garbage piles and rubble which are randomly spawning across the land,

 

I actually would like that. Have ruin bits spawn on sites that used to have villages. The more and older the villages, the more and better the ruin bits. Then you get fragments from interacting with those.

 

Canvasing the ground in archaeology is just as boring as it is to do for current forage or botanize.

[Finnn 3,321]

I can see next one to be reworked to involve actual ....piles and rework tracking skill and this is no joke, it's just where we're all going