We Need Light In Our Darkest Hour!

[rixk 830]

There was no "manipulating with" Rolf done on this oil deed street lamp issue. It was purely numbers of players making known their displeasure with this change to deed lamp functioning and with a good few of the posts explaining the negative effects on the playerbase with this unneeded change..

Sure. People threatening to cut every olive they see, disband their deeds, writing heartbreaking posts how Rolf is greedy swede, who wants to rob everyone he sees, or how Rolf is breaching some imaginary contract, which is in someones head, 10 players discussing it with each other claiming it is what majority of players want(not everything is written in this thread here, but others as well, which cover the same topic)... umh, guess its time for etc here...

When this is not manipulation, then I am king of Sweden.

Edited August 27, 2012 by rixk

[fatboy 448]

alright ima be the odd ball. 1s a month isnt that bad, i personally didnt have an issue with it, but now i got a oil barrel with 49kg of olive oil laying their looking funny at me. So wat use is the oil barrel now? (wont lie i hated the idea when it was first said but kinda grew on me ^^ )

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Sure. People threatening to cut every olive they see, disband their deeds, writing heartbreaking posts how Rolf is greedy swede, who wants to rob everyone he sees, or how Rolf is breaching some imaginary contract, which is in someones head, 10 players discussing it with each other claiming it is what majority of players want(not everything is written in this thread here, but others as well, which cover the same topic)... umh, guess its time for etc here...

When this is not manipulation, then I am king of Sweden.

Every business gets 'manipulated' by your definition. You make a product the public wants, which may not necessarily be what you originally wanted. There is an old saying, the customer is always right. Rolf followed that rule this time, so what?

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

alright ima be the odd ball. 1s a month isnt that bad, i personally didnt have an issue with it, but now i got a oil barrel with 49kg of olive oil laying their looking funny at me. So wat use is the oil barrel now? (wont lie i hated the idea when it was first said but kinda grew on me ^^ )

According to Rolf's post, you can now put up lamps within 50 tiles of your deed and they will get filled from that oil barrel. So, you can make the path to your village well lit.

[Kyrmius 194]

Again, these last changes are probably good and there are probably not so many that thought the changes were good given that not many argued.

I have only just now seen your Posts and your Decision.

Very seldom do I see you Rolf post so many times in a single thread. Thank you. You seek feedback so here is mine:

I think changes are good for now. Too many Players did not agree to the combined changes affecting Lamposts and their fueling.

I do however agree with you about this point: It is inconceivable that LampPosts could be everlit, or magically refuelled from "the Ether". I have stated that in other threads. I have been here in Wurm long enough to remember how Lamp Posts worked before they got changed to "Fill Once and Forget" for on deed use and I agreed with how Lamp Posts worked back then. However... Since most Players (that have commented about Lamp Posts of the forums) seem to agree with the current (new) changes Rolf, I will conceed to the will of the majority. I will ask for no further changes.

I thank you for allowing Oil Barrels to be used to refill off deed LampPosts within 50 tiles. I maintain some off deed and this now provides sufficient reason to finally build an Oil Barrel (haven't used one yet, I refill Lamps manually right now.)

I don't expect any response, you are busy. You have more feedback now as requested.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Kyrmius

[Cerber 103]

So wat use is the oil barrel now? (wont lie i hated the idea when it was first said but kinda grew on me ^^ )

if it was just to fill lamps on your deed, it's completely useless now

if i understood right, if you have a templar hired it will take the oil to light all lamps within 50t radius (even those lamps you don't care about, that you can't remove since they are planted)

i think removing the fuel consumption is useless, it didn't use that much fuel to keep lamps lit and it's really easy to get olive oil with all the changes rolf made to olives yield... problem was that people had to pay 1s per month for something they already had

[Gorwst 129]

Thank you, Rolf.

[Shidoni 84]

I have a smallish/medium deed and don't have hundreds of lamps and from what I have seen the majority of deed holders fit that description. For me, I have no issues with this change. I still use tar in my lamps and they burn quite a long time.

[fatboy 448]

my deed is 75x85 atm, so this means i can have a ton of lamps lit outside it? and the ones inside are forever lit again?

[Gromdehar 125]

Let me review the whole shebang to see if I have the current situation fully conceived in my head.

Back before all the tweaking:

• Before the lamp tweaking this summer, lamps on deeds were "fill it, light it, forget it" and anything off deed had to be refilled and/or relit.
  

Fast-forward to today and the untweak after several tweaks:

• On deed lamps are once again "lit forever" provided the deed hires at least one spirit templar. People keep alluding to the idea that spirit templars do all the repairs. If I don't have a spirit templar but I do have over one month's upkeep in my deed, then there's still no decay for structures on deed (since structure decay is tied to upkeep as opposed to lamps being tied to presence of a templar).
  
• Oil tubs, aside from being different type of container from a large barrel or something else that could hold olive oil, only have a purpose with lamps if I have a spirit templar on my deed and a tub of oil on my deed and then said templar will fill any lamp within 50 tiles of my deed.
  
• I can choose to skip paying coin for this lamp feature (in effect a premium charge for the magic that is limitless on-deed lamps) and then manually fill lamps on my deed.
  
• Lamps on my deed continue to light up and snuff out automatically (provided they have oil), whether or not I have a templar.
  

So the gist of it now:

• I get to decide whether to pay a premium charge per month in exchange for protection and limitless on-deed lamps. And I have the option to "upgrade" my templar through the use of an oil tub (filled, of course) on my deed and gain off-deed lamp refilling within 50 tiles.
  

Someone please quote any part of this and point out if I have it wrong.

[Reylaark 1,100]

if i understood right, if you have a templar hired it will take the oil to light all lamps within 50t radius (even those lamps you don't care about, that you can't remove since they are planted)

I was actually going to post asking someone to check my logic on that. So basically, if I have a templar and a barrel of oil, anyone can plant a ton of lights within a 50 tile distance from the edge of my deed and continually drain my barrel of oil?

[Kianga 219]

Well, yes - unless you take the oil out of the barrel (you dont need it for on-deed lamps anymore).

How about taking the oil out (where not needed for offdeed-lamps) and using the barrel as wine-barrel instead? Looks good for that goal to me.

[Lily 90]

As I understood Rolf's post, the templar is no longer required for on deed lights. If there's no oil requirement, there's no need for a templar to use the oil. Basically back to how it was with 'light once and forget'.

If you want to light all lamps in a 50 tile radius beyond the deed (quite why you would, I'm not sure, but anyway) you need oil and a templar.

Lamps beyond that, in pure wilderness, have do be done manually.

Yes?

[Sarcaticous 338]

I was actually going to post asking someone to check my logic on that. So basically, if I have a templar and a barrel of oil, anyone can plant a ton of lights within a 50 tile distance from the edge of my deed and continually drain my barrel of oil?

/me Starts making lamps.

Now exactly where did you say your deed was?

[Cerber 103]

I was actually going to post asking someone to check my logic on that. So basically, if I have a templar and a barrel of oil, anyone can plant a ton of lights within a 50 tile distance from the edge of my deed and continually drain my barrel of oil?

that's how i understand it yeah, but we'll only know for sure how it works once the servers are back up and it's been tested for some time

[Gromdehar 125]

As I understood Rolf's post, the templar is no longer required for on deed lights. If there's no oil requirement, there's no need for a templar to use the oil. Basically back to how it was with 'light once and forget'.

...

Yes?

Rolf said he "removed oil requirements for lamps on deed." Maybe he extended that to include no longer needing a templar. I only took him at his word. I'm afraid I'll just have to log on and experiment with them.

[Reylaark 1,100]

Let me review the whole shebang to see if I have the current situation fully conceived in my head.

Back before all the tweaking:

• Before the lamp tweaking this summer, lamps on deeds were "fill it, light it, forget it" and anything off deed had to be refilled and/or relit.
  

No, if I remember correctly, before the tweak one could pull lamps still glowing hot from the forge, fill them, plant them off deed, and they stayed lit forever as well as those on deed.

Fast-forward to today and the untweak after several tweaks:

• On deed lamps are once again "lit forever" provided the deed hires at least one spirit templar.
  

No, after this latest tweak, you no longer need a spirit templar to fill lamps on a deed. The deed lamps have been reverted to the way they were before. You fill once, you light, and off they go. Since those don't need to be filled any longer, no need for the templar. The templar will only be needed if you want to fill any and all lamps within 50 tiles of your deed.

People keep alluding to the idea that spirit templars do all the repairs. If I don't have a spirit templar but I do have over one month's upkeep in my deed, then there's still no decay for structures on deed (since structure decay is tied to upkeep as opposed to lamps being tied to presence of a templar).

Currrently, automatic repairs on-deed are not related to spirit templars in any way. The only factor is keeping more than one month (30 days) of upkeep in the deed's upkeep account at the token.

So the gist of it now:

• I get to decide whether to pay a premium charge per month in exchange for protection and limitless on-deed lamps. And I have the option to "upgrade" my templar through the use of an oil tub (filled, of course) on my deed and gain off-deed lamp refilling within 50 tiles.
  

Someone please quote any part of this and point out if I have it wrong.

Mostly, though you will get limitless on-deed lamps regardless of having a spirit templar or not.

Having no oil barrel means the templar will protect you, and occasionally freak you out by quietly sneaking behind you and staring at you for hours.

Having a barrel of oil means that the templar will continue to protect you, and freak you out, but he will also now use your oil fill up everyone else's lamps within 50 tiles of your deed.

I'll also match your sentiment just in case I got something wrong

Someone please quote any part of this and point out if I have it wrong.

[Reylaark 1,100]

/me Starts making lamps.

Now exactly where did you say your deed was?

My deed is right in the center of Chaos, equi-distant from all coasts and you should see it. Good luck with that.

[darthryan 588]

Rey, Rolf says you DO need a Templar for auto filling deed lamps.

Edit: this is second-hand, supposedly he said it in IRC but I didn't see it myself.

Edited August 27, 2012 by darthryan

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

But it happened and yet, having to refill my lamps with tar for 30 minutes every 3 weeks is not the end of the world. That's probably less time spent than harvesting olives.

Aye, that's what I do now. I traditionally do a periodic walkaround on all my deeds and just carry 5kg of tar and refill lamps as I pass them. Sometimes I miss some lamps on one walkthrough but then catch them on the next, or even the tour after that, since I have a few weeks before any run completely dry I think only once or twice has a lamp gone out before I got it refilled, even the offdeed ones. The lamp issue stopped being an irritation to me some time back. Its a lot easier for me than the whole olive oil vat but maybe others prefer the oil tubs.

I think a lot boils down on your outlook and how one things things "should" be -- if you tell yourself often enough "He should NOT have done that!!" then it just continues to fester and fester under the skin. I imagine newer players hardly mind the new system at all; it bothers longtime veterans mostly based on how irritated they are with Rolf over various other things. For some, it becomes a last straw because of various other things that have nothing to do with lamps at all. But if it was not lamps it would soon become another issue.

Anyway, I am at peace now with the lamp system, and refilling lamps with tar on .. I guess seven different deeds now .. is something I hardly even think about any more. It;s certainly no longer my own top priority of items I want Rolf to focus on.

[Wulfgar 1,134]

Rey, Rolf says you DO need a Templar for auto filling deed lamps.

Edit: this is second-hand, supposedly he said it in IRC but I didn't see it myself.

Lamps no longer need filling, why would you need a templar for it?

Some people really amaze me....

[Narfena 0]

Lamps no longer need filling, why would you need a templar for it?

Some people really amaze me....

Allright, since I hear very few voices saying it's a change that should stay I've removed oil requirements for lamps on deed. Lamps up to 50 tiles outside a deed will use the closest deeds oil reserve if there are guards on deed to fill them. Lamps further away will have to be manually filled.

So is there any requirement at all for lamps on deed to be filled and stay lit during the dark?

I just don't think the costs for owning a deed and getting the lamps off deed (or on deed for that matter) lit without paying for it is ridiculously low. You should either pay for guards or your fellow players who you block from using that land.

When you buy a deed does this mean you pay for the land use? or that guard is a requirement to have a deed and block land?

Apparently you disagree on a large scale and I'll adjust. For now you'll have to fill lamps off deed or hire a guard.

So only off deed lamps will require filling to stay lit?

[atazs 965]

This whole thing just blows my mind, confuses the hell out of me...

[Gumbo 1,563]

Allright, since I hear very few voices saying it's a change that should stay I've removed oil requirements for lamps on deed.

That is unfortunate. I know me and at least 3 of my closest mates in game were all for the original changes you made in regard to having to use oil to fuel on deed lamps. It brought a little more feel of realism to the game. Yes, it may have been a small chore, but so what? That's what you chose as a direction for your game. As for hearing very few voices, that's because these forums were/are a haven for trolling and negativity. I and my friends avoid the forums like the plague. We may lurk now and then, but posting here, is rarely worth the hassle and repercussions. I know I got tired of some multi forum acct troll spewing crap at me, but that's not what this thread is about, even tho it's likely the reason you don't see the people that were for your new oil lamp change posting here. I feel once again you caved to the pressure of 10 or 20 people who are most vocal on the forum. Think of it this way... If you have 1000 customers and 10 or 20 of them come here arguing that you change something back... well you should consider the other 990 - 980 who didn't come here asking that you change things back... were all for your original change or at the least, didn't care either way.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Gumbo

[Wulfgar 1,134]

In response to the very subjective and hilarious post above:

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/63384-poll-do-you-agree-with-the-new-lamp-change/

184 Wurm players voted to revert the lamp changes, and based on the low amount of Wurm players that care to post on the forum, that is a rather vast majority of forum users.

Assuming that EVERYONE that does not go to forums support whatever Rolf does 100% is just plain stupid. I think forum polls are pretty representative of the general Wurm population, just like real life polls usually give a pretty good picture of what people think, despite only asking less than 0,0002% of the population.