Still waiting for some content...

[griper 537]

I hope we can get a vision on where this game is heading. And a roadmap pointing out the steps needed to get there.

 

The age-old "we got a lot going on but cant tell you yet"-response is unsatisfactory to say the least.

 

I have no idea where this game wants to be one year from now.

[Bekador 211]

1 hour ago, griper said:

I hope we can get a vision on where this game is heading. And a roadmap pointing out the steps needed to get there.

 

The age-old "we got a lot going on but cant tell you yet"-response is unsatisfactory to say the least.

 

I have no idea where this game wants to be one year from now.

 

Are you sure the ones at the helm do know? I have my doubts.

 

The whole hush-hush mentality of the game regarding game mechanics, patches, what is worked on now and for the future needs to go.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Bekador

[Tukodama 316]

4 hours ago, Malvado said:

Oh Holly Goblins Camps!
Oh Holly Dragons Lairs!
Oh pirate Caves!
Oh treasure ships diving!

 

That all sounds pretty cool!  I hope that hasn't been forgotten for possible future updates.  

 

We have to be patient with Wurm leadership.  If you want to have a real say, become an investor, buy enough stock and advocate for real change.  If you are not a real investor, management doesn't have to tell you anything.  There has been a major shakeup in the dev and management teams and until everyone is up to speed and on the same page of the direction and future of Wurm, I wouldn't be releasing much info.  I would prefer silence instead of a bunch of empty promises.  The team needs to get their ducks in row and create an achievable guide to future updates and overall game improvements.    

[atazs 965]

5 hours ago, griper said:

I hope we can get a vision on where this game is heading. And a roadmap pointing out the steps needed to get there.

 

The age-old "we got a lot going on but cant tell you yet"-response is unsatisfactory to say the least.

 

I have no idea where this game wants to be one year from now.

Roadmaps don't work in Wurm. They put them up only to temporarily appease the community, but then fail to stick to more than 50% of it, with the other 50% getting delays or only implemented in some form. Then the community gets upset. 

The devs know this, that's why they don't put up any. They also "can't tell us yet" because nothing is set in stone. They know this. They know that if volunteer X is working on Y and suddenly that person quits, or has RL issues and can't work on it (as it happened several times before in the past where people had mental breakdowns, then their work usually gets canned, or rushed out and gets a half assed release (as it happens often) If they can't work on it, it means delays. Hence why no roadmap. 

 

After seeing the few roadmaps that were posted here over the years, i'd rather we not get any, so as to not have our hype crushed, or be fed more lies. The devs probably agree with this sentiment. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by atazs

[Dao 145]

3 hours ago, Tukodama said:

 

 

We have to be patient with Wurm leadership.  If you want to have a real say, become an investor, buy enough stock and advocate for real change.  If you are not a real investor, management doesn't have to tell you anything.  There has been a major shakeup in the dev and management teams and until everyone is up to speed and on the same page of the direction and future of Wurm, I wouldn't be releasing much info.  I would prefer silence instead of a bunch of empty promises.  The team needs to get their ducks in row and create an achievable guide to future updates and overall game improvements.    

 

Bulls**t.

 

The players are the biggest investors. They invest their time and money. If they withdraw their investment from Wurm, there will be nothing left. Not figuratively, but literally. Because it's a sandbox. If no one builds sand castles in a sandbox, then it's just a pile of useless sand.

 

This leadership should be patient with the players. Especially in such a sensitive place as Wurm.

[validate 598]

2 hours ago, Tukodama said:

 

That all sounds pretty cool!  I hope that hasn't been forgotten for possible future updates.  

 

We have to be patient with Wurm leadership.  If you want to have a real say, become an investor, buy enough stock and advocate for real change.  If you are not a real investor, management doesn't have to tell you anything.  There has been a major shakeup in the dev and management teams and until everyone is up to speed and on the same page of the direction and future of Wurm, I wouldn't be releasing much info.  I would prefer silence instead of a bunch of empty promises.  The team needs to get their ducks in row and create an achievable guide to future updates and overall game improvements.    

Game Chest Group

GAMEC

0.692

-0.068

-8.95%

0.70

0.648

36,980

55,218

  I was trying to find away to  invest and buy some stocks for them. but it's a huge pain to do from overseas.   seems we need to set up a swedish bank about to put the funds in, then buy stocks.   I was hoping we could just do it from our own country system and they buy it from them for us.   would be cool if they put an easy way to buy the company stocks on this website.  just use our login info add our real info to it. and sell us stocks on wurms shop store. i'd buy some.  the shares are really cheap right now 0.692 sweden money. i think thats 9 cents Canadian.   55,218 shares.   hmm my math has that just under 5000 $  .  i dont think i'm reading that right. lol  

 

oh well until i can invest.  i'll just buy more gold coins for wurm and save up for the yr prem time sale .

[Votip 1,621]

3 minutes ago, validate said:

dont think i'm reading that right

its volume traded that day. it has nothing to do with total number of shares. I am not proficient in swedish but i believe that total number of shares is 33 685 483.

5 minutes ago, validate said:

i'd buy some.

but why?

[validate 598]

4 minutes ago, Votip said:

its volume traded that day. it has nothing to do with total number of shares. I am not proficient in swedish but i believe that total number of shares is 33 685 483.

but why?

i use to play trading sim games in the past.  and one was with the real market numbers.  i did well.  putting 1-200 $  isn't to much and if lucky 5-10 yrs from now double it.  that better then bank interest. and invest low so if it looses, it won't bother me. 

 

[puncher 325]

I think might be helpful to define the word content. It's thrown around quite a bit but it has all kinds of modifiers. For instance if a qol is put in place like messages for seeing how long forges will be lit for or the one where I click on the continue button now and it gives me a percentage chance of to continue actually continuing. These are actual changes these are actual content changes.

 

The adding of the canoe although surprising was adding content as was the Donkey. Adding in treasure maps was definitely content adding in holy sites was definitely content adding in Steam and three new servers well it was adding expanded accessibility to content.

So it's kind of like dancing around the word Without Really defining what kind of content provides people the impetus have  to log in and enjoy the game.

Being a Sandbox this is a little bit harder than you think because content in a sandbox will make a lot of people content doing things they enjoy but I might not be what you enjoy.

My vision of Wurm may be what adds content for me having five deeds seven castles 300 horses 200 pigs etc etc. Also I would prefer if they did qols and tweak things to be not dumb down but a bit more efficient and a little less hard to use and less time consuming when the timer makes no sense it's some kind of default action timer nobody ever looked at.

So instead of jumping around the term of content maybe what we should be saying is more along the lines of what I want as content.

[Sindusk 2,448]

7 hours ago, Tukodama said:

We have to be patient with Wurm leadership.  If you want to have a real say, become an investor, buy enough stock and advocate for real change.  If you are not a real investor, management doesn't have to tell you anything.  There has been a major shakeup in the dev and management teams and until everyone is up to speed and on the same page of the direction and future of Wurm, I wouldn't be releasing much info.  I would prefer silence instead of a bunch of empty promises.  The team needs to get their ducks in row and create an achievable guide to future updates and overall game improvements.    

This is completely outrageous. To imply that people who are real investors would buy stock in the company in the hopes that change would occur? Yeah, no, that's not how it works man. A while ago I had an investor who was interested in buying Wurm (~2021). I contacted them to buy CodeClub/Wurm Online and this is the short version of how it went:

 

Me: Hi I'm interested in making an offer for CodeClub and Wurm Online.

Response: I'll forward this E-Mail.

Me: Great.

Nothing for a week.

Me: Are you still interested in getting an offer for CodeClub/Wurm Online?

No response for another week.

Me: Does this mean you're not interested?

No response, and I made no further attempts.
 

There was a world there where the investor would've been willing to make a partnership arrangement or something like that, because I had convinced them that the game could be a long-term passive income source for them. This is proven by the current longevity of the game, and while it might have ups and downs, there is a very low chance that it will sink. Just for clarity, this was not conditional upon me being in charge or anything, it was an actual investor seeking to find a long-term passive income source.

 

You think that someone is going to just pump a ton of money to buy up shares and pray that they're listened to? I couldn't even get a reasonable response to an E-Mail. People with money make plans - they don't just gamble blindly (well... most of them). They make sure the people they're giving money to are solid, and that there's a good chance for return on investment. GCG had a prime opportunity to sell high in 2021 with the Steam Launch, and I was actually able to convince a legit investor with millions to spare that it grow further. Now when I try to pitch the same idea, they just say hell no. GCG/CodeClub have squandered their Steam launch so hard that nobody I've talked to will even consider attempting to buy Wurm at any value. They would have to sell at an unreasonably low price to offload the game in it's current state. I imagine it's a bad idea for them to do that, too, considering it's stable right now. Their best move is to just hold on and minmax the product by investing the minimum required to keep up appearances that it's still supported to have people continue playing. As much as I'd like to see the game make a comeback through a bold update and proper direction, it's probably best for them to just sit back and let it simmer.

[Coach 196]

On 7/14/2023 at 9:48 PM, Stinboi said:

On 7/14/2023 at 11:02 AM, Coach said:

Take a rest then.

thanks for proving me right, and i do rest from Wurm

There is sleep bonus made after couple days of rest. Those sleep bonus that i made have engaged me to start skilling in the game for a long time.

 

On 7/14/2023 at 5:31 PM, Ame said:

I have alot of content to do when ever i come back from breaks and get that special wurm inspiration. But my content is to progress forward and develop my deed.

Here is the other example of self made content that have engaged people in the game for a long time. The account joined in 2012, now is 2023.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Coach

[joedobo 1,187]

I see a few are upset we aren't being informed of what Wurm is working on. But why does that even matter? I guarantee Wurm won't change their plans even if massive numbers of players object or suggest slight tweaks. And we couldn't suggest small tweaks anyway because Wurm has never shared details before a launch. Further, even after a launch many details on features aren't shared.
I suppose it might be cool to see what they are working on. But don't for a moment think we would be able to influence the content.

 

 

4 hours ago, Sindusk said:

GCG had a prime opportunity to sell high in 2021 with the Steam Launch, and I was actually able to convince a legit investor with millions to spare that it grow further.

Wow, I always thought that if someone was willing to drop a couple mill they could easily buy Wurm. I'm guessing you can't go into the Swedish penny stock system and buy out 51% of shares to effectively take control of the GCG?

[Coach 196]

47 minutes ago, joedobo said:

Further, even after a launch many details on features aren't shared.

That's depth, which have 65%+ people for now.

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Coach

[joedobo 1,187]

That depth versus ease of use survey is very biased. I'm confident many who answered that were making assumptions that Keenan's definition of depth happens to agree with how they define depth.

For example, @Coachseem to think depth means Wurm should add overly complex, and what some would call convoluted, secret game mechanics. And part of the game is figuring out those weird secret mechanics.

 

What most people were thinking was.....
Ease of use example... one button imp'ing (aka improved improve mod from WU)

Depth example ... There isn't one in Wurm currently to compare with the above. But it would be a complex system that closely mimics IRL medieval crafting.

 

 

lol image this:

"Hi Wurm!  We are adding glass crafting today. You can now make stuff out of glass! Because you all wanted more depth in content we made sure the system is super complex. It's nothing like any other crafting system. We aren't going to tell you anything else because figuring it out is part the system's depth; Yeah, are you excited or what! We will drop a hit that everything can be discovered with data provided in the log files. So Wurmians, make the wurmiverse SHINE!"

Edited July 16, 2023 by joedobo
added my silly glass example

[Locath 533]

18 hours ago, Tukodama said:

If you are not a real investor, management doesn't have to tell you anything.

I am the source of the income for both, the company and the investors.

 

18 hours ago, Tukodama said:

until everyone is up to speed and on the same page of the direction and future of Wurm, I wouldn't be releasing much info.

This isn't about last few months, this is about the last 20 years. Recent events don't cause the decades of frustration.

 

16 hours ago, puncher said:

I think might be helpful to define the word content.

If i understand the original post correctly, and what i based my responses on, this topic is about content which will keep players engaged with the game, not some minor changes and additions. Archaeology being a prime example of engaging content.

 

On an example of another game, Xsyon. Initially it was heavily inspired by Wurm, almost a carbon copy. The single dev is still working on it and all, he's passionate about it and a great guy.

One decision he made and is standing by though makes the game have 10 concurrent players online in peak. Skill cap and skill decay. He refuses to remove it and people leave when they hit the stage where they have to micromanage every gain in order not to drop skill levels. While it is possible to max all skills, it requires managing every single skill tick in late stages.

 

It's a prime example of how a single wrong decision can ruin years of work and why WO devs might be reluctant in taking radical moves which would cause uproar on the forums.

...But without making big additions and by just dribbling content 10 lines of code at a time, making big announcements about each, this only keeps the diehards' dreams and hopes flame burning.

 

People who have the spending power but aren't in love with Wurm simply move on and take their wallets with them. 

I'm one of those people who read reviews and updates before buying in to a game. If i see a game which in the span of 2 years added 3 items, i'm not sure if i wouldn't consider that abandonware. QoL changes mean nothing to potential new customer since they don't know that before the QoL fix there was an issue: "ok, so people couldn't bind XYZ to a key before and now they can? Great, i don't know if that was an issue or not, seems like something simple enough that it should have been done 10 years ago".

 

 

[elentari 2,660]

Honestly after reading all these replies , SIndusk's point of view kinda changed a lot for me. Most of the game's updates in the past few years haven't really "upset" the players but they didn't change the game in a profound way either. Some were nice additions while others were superfluous. 

 

Wurm needs some ballsy decisions if it wants to actually thrive, something more than donkeys or canoes, some players might get upset in the process but you know what? That's part of game development. You'll never make everyone happy.  

22 minutes ago, Locath said:

One decision he made and is standing by though makes the game have 10 concurrent players online in peak. Skill cap and skill decay. He refuses to remove it and people leave when they hit the stage where they have to micromanage every gain in order not to drop skill levels. While it is possible to max all skills, it requires managing every single skill tick in late stages.

 

It's a prime example of how a single wrong decision can ruin years of work and why WO devs might be reluctant in taking radical moves which would cause uproar on the forums.

 

Good example of a wrong move that Wurm needs to avoid. This was actually similar to Rolf's vision. But Wurm's appeal is permanence of actions. Permanence of skill gained and permanence of your effect upon a wurm server, highways, infrastructure, deeds built, mines and pathways carved into mountains, etc. 

 

Simply put we need someone with a coherent vision and the willingness to step on people's toes to get it done. If it's a good vision and that person understands the consequences for it but he's also open to constructive feedback, wurm can thrive. 

 

If we don't have that, we'll just be in the same doldrums we have been in for years.

 

Cutesy content that really "doesn't upset anyone" but at the same time one could argue that if something doesn't upset anyone that thing also doesn't change the world in any shape or form. 

[Idlamn 297]

What will keep people occupied for a very long while will be expanding the palette of building options: add the possibility to choose roof geometry, the possibility to have 2 water roofs and to fill in those triangles. Also windows, and multi storey tall windows. Add other embelishments with multiple variations. Also variations to the current wall sections (e.g. why not an arrow slit that instead of being centered is towards the right/left. Pack everything into a construction overhaul.

 

In the meantime this seems like a quick win to keep people occupied:

Maybe to add to this have the trim craftable from multiple wood types : >

 

Another thing is procedural enemies like the goblin camps that were in progress at a time.

 

Another idea is to not make skins just a matter of spending points for, but add them as a reward for a treasure map or whatever.

 

Things like treasure hunts and atlasses are capitalizing on a core thing in the game, namely the vast world, exploration. It made sense to have added those at some point in time. I don't really know what holy sites is about so I can't say about those.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Idlamn

[Coach 196]

8 hours ago, joedobo said:

Further, even after a launch many details on features aren't shared.

 

2 hours ago, joedobo said:

We aren't going to tell you anything else because figuring it out is part the system's depth

They don't share many details on features can maintain the complexity of the content. People sometimes dont know how complex can the content be, until u tell them or they play long enough. When people figure it out how complex it is, many of them will be like wow, this is the content that has a lot of potential to explore further. It engages them in the game.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Coach

[joedobo 1,187]

@Coachat this point it is agree to disagree. You won't see things the way I do and I won't agree with you.
When players ask for content depth, I guarantee you those players aren't asking for convoluted system and secret mechanics that need to be discovered before they can use the system. 

Example of what players DO NOT WANT.

"Hey all, I just did a statistical analysis of my Wurm log files. My sample consists of about 6 months worth of actions, so like a few hundred thousand actions. I used R. I found out that in order to get our skill from 50 to 70 here are the things we need to do..."

Depth is actual content. The lack of documentation on content is a hollow attempt to create what appears to depth.

[elentari 2,660]

4 hours ago, joedobo said:

Depth is actual content. The lack of documentation on content is a hollow attempt to create what appears to depth.

Agreed. Wurm has sadly followed this philosophical path to obscure as much info from players instead of informing them about the world they play in. 

 

Most games and mmo's have a wiki for precisely that purpose. Not everyone has weeks free to discover that sweet spot is there to do a tracking grind (if there is even a sweet spot) or how to do X action. People pay for content not to act as beta testers. Which sadly is something wurmians have been treated at times as. 

[Sindusk 2,448]

15 hours ago, joedobo said:

Wow, I always thought that if someone was willing to drop a couple mill they could easily buy Wurm. I'm guessing you can't go into the Swedish penny stock system and buy out 51% of shares to effectively take control of the GCG?

 

GCG isn't just Wurm. They have other holdings, which makes their market cap higher than what Wurm is worth. GCG originally acquired CodeClub/Wurm Online for 3.37M SEK (or ~$337K USD). As of right now, the market cap of GCG is 23.31M SEK, or $2.3 million USD. Assuming you could just buy stock in a company without having to consider if enough shares are available to purchase (not how it works), Wurm isn't even worth $1.15 million USD. It wasn't after the Steam launch, and it absolutely isn't now. The price to buy 51% was even higher during the Steam launch period since the stock was worth more.

 

In a way, you're right that if someone was willing to drop a couple million, they might actually be able to buy Wurm right now. Problem starts with nobody actually wanting to do that because it would be a bad investment. Problem extends when, even if they did, the company holding it doesn't want to sell.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Sindusk

[Coach 196]

On 9/13/2021 at 12:02 AM, Keenan said:

the complexities of the feature.

 

10 hours ago, joedobo said:

depth means Wurm should add overly complex

 

10 hours ago, joedobo said:

Because you all wanted more depth in content we made sure the system is super complex.

Keenan seems define depth as something about the complexities of feature.
But u seem define depth to something like an extreme level of complexities of a feature, because u used the words overly complex and super complex.

That's two different levels of complexities. In other word, one is mentioning the normal complexities, and one is mentioning the super complexities.

 

5 hours ago, joedobo said:

When players ask for content depth, I guarantee you those players aren't asking for convoluted system and secret mechanics that need to be discovered before they can use the system. 

U said somthing players don't want, but they may just want something that u didn't guarantee.
When players ask for content depth, why can't those player be just asking for complex system and secret mechanics that need to be discoved after they can use the system. They can use the system no matter they discover the complex system and secret mechanic or not, when players ask for content depth.

 

7 hours ago, Coach said:

15 hours ago, joedobo said:

Further, even after a launch many details on features aren't shared.

They don't share many details on features can maintain the complexity of the content

It's good to keep certain amount of details in order to reach the complexities that the community can handle. Not overly complex and super complex.

[nitram20 90]

23 hours ago, Sindusk said:

This is completely outrageous. To imply that people who are real investors would buy stock in the company in the hopes that change would occur? Yeah, no, that's not how it works man. A while ago I had an investor who was interested in buying Wurm (~2021). I contacted them to buy CodeClub/Wurm Online and this is the short version of how it went:

 

Me: Hi I'm interested in making an offer for CodeClub and Wurm Online.

Response: I'll forward this E-Mail.

Me: Great.

Nothing for a week.

Me: Are you still interested in getting an offer for CodeClub/Wurm Online?

No response for another week.

Me: Does this mean you're not interested?

No response, and I made no further attempts.
 

There was a world there where the investor would've been willing to make a partnership arrangement or something like that, because I had convinced them that the game could be a long-term passive income source for them. This is proven by the current longevity of the game, and while it might have ups and downs, there is a very low chance that it will sink. Just for clarity, this was not conditional upon me being in charge or anything, it was an actual investor seeking to find a long-term passive income source.

 

You think that someone is going to just pump a ton of money to buy up shares and pray that they're listened to? I couldn't even get a reasonable response to an E-Mail. People with money make plans - they don't just gamble blindly (well... most of them). They make sure the people they're giving money to are solid, and that there's a good chance for return on investment. GCG had a prime opportunity to sell high in 2021 with the Steam Launch, and I was actually able to convince a legit investor with millions to spare that it grow further. Now when I try to pitch the same idea, they just say hell no. GCG/CodeClub have squandered their Steam launch so hard that nobody I've talked to will even consider attempting to buy Wurm at any value. They would have to sell at an unreasonably low price to offload the game in it's current state. I imagine it's a bad idea for them to do that, too, considering it's stable right now. Their best move is to just hold on and minmax the product by investing the minimum required to keep up appearances that it's still supported to have people continue playing. As much as I'd like to see the game make a comeback through a bold update and proper direction, it's probably best for them to just sit back and let it simmer.

Pretty sure that Rolf sold all his shares for around 250-300k US dollars.

 

I can’t see Wurm being worth more than 750k at best at the moment. But i’d even say 500k

 

 

If i had millions to blow, i’d buy it.

Edited July 16, 2023 by nitram20

[Wilczan 2,048]

After reading Sindusk response, I'am feeling really stupid.

 

Stupid, that over the years I suggested many things, and in most times I tried to pick small simple fixes, qol sort of, that would improve players life with minimum effort from devs.

Done that, couse assumed that bigger changes would be too complicated and probably won't be implemented couse of that.

 

Never really interested in WU, so I wasn't aware of how many mods those servers have, and how easy is to make some changes and expansions.

 

Now I see that it's either pure laziness OR acting on purpose, to do as less as we can, only to sustain the game.

 

Sadly this game has no future without drastic changes.

[Locath 533]

2 hours ago, Wilczan said:

Stupid, that over the years I suggested many things, and in most times I tried to pick small simple fixes, qol sort of, that would improve players life with minimum effort from devs.

My thoughts exactly. 

Instead of asking about every 2-3 months "can we please, please, please have NatSub crafting via the crafting window" since the crafting window was added, should have went with Darnok style fantasies and be equally ignored for 10+ years but on bigger stuff.