Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) The big issue: The trade and merchant ad sections are getting a bit out of control. First problem, Trade chat. I'll see someone post a PC then get spammed off of trade chat with 3-4 WTS messages from a single person in seconds, which then gets bumped by another seller who just posted their string of messages less than 30 seconds prior (maybe a slight exaggeration, but not by much) posting again to be seen. Please put a limitation timer on the trade channel that only allows one WTS post per X amount of time from one person to cut down on the spam. Second issue is that some people have upwards of 5 separate threads on the first page of the Merchant Ads forum for various "types" of things they sell. There will be one for grown/harvested goods, one for tools, another for weapons, add another for bulk goods, yet another for enchants... It's insane trying to browse different shops. I get it that people think control of the first page means control of the market, but with a handful of people constantly bumping their multitude of threads to stay relevant, it's making the Merchant Ad section look more like a last chance desperation flea market. Please limit the Merchant Ad section to 1 crafted/harvested and 1 enchants/services thread per account, with moderation for users trying to skirt the system by simply making multiple forum accounts for the purpose of making multiple ad threads. The multitude of threads isn't needed if you actually use the tags properly. Thank you for your time and consideration. Edited July 3, 2017 by Seriphina 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) This has always bothered me as well, I don't want to add anybody to my ignore list, but I wish traders would be a bit more considerate of others also trying to make a living. Trade chat has absolutely no moderation assigned to it, other than the usual ones that will show their faces when trade chat gets out of conduct, but it seems that it's okay for one person to spam 3 to 4 times about their goods. I don't want to be that guy, but I personally sell an assortment of goods and could potentially join those that spam like this, but I simply choose not too, but that does not mean everybody else will, I'm sure language barriers and different cultural behaviors all come into play here. It might be completely normal for them to see things happened the way they do it. Trade chat needs a throttle, and even though those spammers will undermine it by making alt accounts to continue spamming I think it should be monitored more closely to give everybody a fighting chance.. or at lease those few that do not want to be uncivilized. 5 - 10 minute cooldown on trade chat msgs would be great, with the exception of PC to answer for those looking for Price checks. This will also encourage people to stop making 5+ threads about their services If people took as much effort as they use for spamming and put it into organizing a nice thread, they could easily fit it all in one, and make it pretty. Edited July 3, 2017 by Legios 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) omg spam! lol seriously this is no different than any other game, people ignore the spammers if it bothers them, those who don't know how to use the page feature and scroll up features, items posted on forums can be found if searched I have not bumped my hota thread for ages and yet I still get the odd pm about items I have for sale Edited July 3, 2017 by JakeRivers 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 3, 2017 For me I try to follow these guidelines: Trade Chat: Maximum of 2 lines at a time. Maximum of 1 advertisement of those 2 lines in 20-30 minutes. Merchant Ads Forum: Maximum of 2 threads on first page at a time. Maximum of 1 bump every 24 hours. However, I feel like these are just guidelines and nothing that should be enforced in the chat system itself, certainly not on the forums. In general, I observe both of these a lot and I do not see to many people abusing either of the systems. Due to this, -1 for the suggestion but it's good to keep the guidelines in mind when using them 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 3, 2017 56 minutes ago, Yldrania said: For me I try to follow these guidelines: Trade Chat: Maximum of 2 lines at a time. Maximum of 1 advertisement of those 2 lines in 20-30 minutes. Merchant Ads Forum: Maximum of 2 threads on first page at a time. Maximum of 1 bump every 24 hours. However, I feel like these are just guidelines and nothing that should be enforced in the chat system itself, certainly not on the forums. In general, I observe both of these a lot and I do not see to many people abusing either of the systems. Due to this, -1 for the suggestion but it's good to keep the guidelines in mind when using them Just an example to show that even with you saying you try to follow this guidelines that this is how it shows to others. Granted each post was only 2 lines but you did 3 of them which take up most of my chat screen since I do have other things I like to see. [16:16:03] <Yldrania> (Xan) WTS Rare Catapult (finished or unfinished available), 2x Rare Forge (76QL), Rare Brass Oil Lamp (0.3kg), 3x Rare Large Crate, 2x Rare Large Chest, Rare Unfinished Practice Doll [16:16:05] <Yldrania> (Xan) WTS 2x Rare BSB, Rare Large Barrel, Rare Unfinished Raft, Pickaxe, Steel (CoC82,QL 53), Scissors 68CoC QL 69, Hatchet, Steel (64CoC,QL 9), Garden Gnome (Red) [16:25:28] <Yldrania> (Xan) WTB Many Rare/Supreme/Fantastic Materials - CoD without Asking! http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/155562-wtb-raresupremefantastic-materials-high-prices/ Just something to show you how much this appears to other people. I only have 7 lines visible on any chat screen. To me this throws out your guidelines you mention. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 3, 2017 7 minutes ago, Pashka said: Just an example to show that even with you saying you try to follow this guidelines that this is how it shows to others. Granted each post was only 2 lines but you did 3 of them which take up most of my chat screen since I do have other things I like to see. [16:16:03] <Yldrania> (Xan) WTS Rare Catapult (finished or unfinished available), 2x Rare Forge (76QL), Rare Brass Oil Lamp (0.3kg), 3x Rare Large Crate, 2x Rare Large Chest, Rare Unfinished Practice Doll [16:16:05] <Yldrania> (Xan) WTS 2x Rare BSB, Rare Large Barrel, Rare Unfinished Raft, Pickaxe, Steel (CoC82,QL 53), Scissors 68CoC QL 69, Hatchet, Steel (64CoC,QL 9), Garden Gnome (Red) [16:25:28] <Yldrania> (Xan) WTB Many Rare/Supreme/Fantastic Materials - CoD without Asking! http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/155562-wtb-raresupremefantastic-materials-high-prices/ Just something to show you how much this appears to other people. I only have 7 lines visible on any chat screen. To me this throws out your guidelines you mention. Well, you have removed all the posts in between my lines But yes, I guess that a WTB post is separate from WTS. In any case, I've given my opinion here and that's about all I have to say. There are always cases where people make mistakes or post too quickly but as long as that's not permanently the case I don't see the need to point that out like that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 3, 2017 lol so much hurt on trade spam you can please some of the people some of the time but you sure can't please all the people all of the time everyone has there own opinion on what is spam or not oh yeah here is my -1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 4, 2017 15 minutes ago, Yldrania said: Well, you have removed all the posts in between my lines But yes, I guess that a WTB post is separate from WTS. In any case, I've given my opinion here and that's about all I have to say. There are always cases where people make mistakes or post too quickly but as long as that's not permanently the case I don't see the need to point that out like that There was only 1 post which was 1 line in between all of that. That is all. And so that was my 7th line of chat. Your opinion doesn't help if you do not follow what you are saying you do. Your post completely scrolled up my trade chat. I know there is not an easy way to do any type of monitoring it that would be easy and so I am not for making any rules there. Just got me to see your post here saying but I do not completely take it up and well.....Yea you do. Maybe provide a link to all that you sale instead of posting each and every item. Then you have one post for the wts and one for the wtb....Just my 2 cents. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 4, 2017 However, I feel like these are just guidelines and nothing that should be enforced in the chat system itself, certainly not on the forums. Yeah, I stopped reading right there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 4, 2017 Trade pvp! Well, the best way to police trade is to NOT BUY from people that are irritating with spammy posts. Otherwise, the only way to solve it is to submit all posts to Code Club and have them decide how and when to post them to the public - never gonna happen. Trade is all about the players and it is all up to the players to encourage or discourage trade practices. I've seen several cases where the Wurm community voiced their opinions about certain peoples behaviors and made a difference. So far, I've not found any spamming in Wurm that was above my tolerance level. I did play wow, so I do have a high tolerance I suppose. -1 for me 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 4, 2017 I hate it too but i tell my self,people are stupid!,just becouse they can do something in their minds it means they have to do it.. Just do as Wurmhole says..never buy from those desperate people posting 3-4 lines in a second thats they only way you can''hurt'' them I play a game that has a 30s cooldown on world/trade chat and still,people get to sync and then you see 20 posts in a second still sucks.. Nothing devs can do about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 4, 2017 Go to any big and lively market IRL, there are merchants shouting all over. One louder than other. If there's anything I would change about Trade chat, it would be the option to filter WTB, WTS and PC. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 4, 2017 I don't like the spam either. Sadly some people have a bunch of items they have to fill trade chat with, like Yldrania. so -1 to trade chat +1 to the forum suggestion though, Its very annoying seeing 1 person post up several different shops when they can have 1 page say it all. Not sayin any names though. *cough* https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/135184-wts-high-vyn-nahjo-enchants/#comment-1385494 https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/120993-panfilling/& https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/122526-wts-silver/& https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/126617-wts-mortar/& https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/123542-wts-favor-sale/& https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/120917-wts-dirt/& *cough* panfilling is in classified and everything else is in merchant ads, not even WTS *cough* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 4, 2017 They are in the merchant ads instead of WTS because it isn't a one time sale. Those are the only ones that get to stay in WTS section. At least that is what I was told........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 4, 2017 45 minutes ago, Yiraia said: ... +1 to the forum suggestion though, Its very annoying seeing 1 person post up several different shops when they can have 1 page say it all. Not sayin any names though. *cough* ... *cough* panfilling is in classified and everything else is in merchant ads, not even WTS *cough* Really think you should take something for that cough of yours. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 4, 2017 Personally I don't think it's a mayor problem, but can't hurt to ask people to show some restraint either. Personally I post a message like "WTS Leather wares (toolbelts, armour, saddles, etc), ql50-ql95. WoA Saddles in stock, see http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/131555-tims-tannery-vrock-landing-xanadu/" in trade chat after login and will then not post another one for at least 2 RL hours. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 4, 2017 (edited) Made a rare concrete yesterday. Hopped on Wurmpedia, couldn't find anything to make with it. My toon doesn't do religion, doesn't believe in it, so saccing wasn't an option. I turned on the Trade Channel for the first time looking to do a PC. Now, maybe I hopped in at precisely the wrong time... But, people were posting line after line with their complete inventory for sale. Annoying. Add to that when it's light blue and the most visible thing in the channel... a wall of things I couldn't care less about and wouldn't bother carefully reading through. Screw the PC, I shut the channel back off, dropped my rare concrete on my mine floor. Will wait to see what the new UI does, but addressing this when designing that would be great. Option to separate trade channels by server. Option to ignore individual player in current chat box only. Option to custom color certain player-defined text such as PC, Hammer, Rare, Supreme, etc. That way, if I'm looking for a rare hammer, it'll pop out at me within the wall of utter eye-torture people spam. Just some ideas... Edit: Option to separate PC, WTS, WTB channels would likely help too imho, further refining into server specific if wanted... guess what I'm saying is, options options options. Edited July 4, 2017 by Reylaark options 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 4, 2017 -1 I personally don't think it is a major problem in trade chat too like Eobersig has mentioned. For the merchant ads, I believe if you could put all the things you are selling into one forum post then do it. I like to be organized and efficient so everything I have is in one post (I just sell Leatherworking and Cloth Tailoring items so it isn't much ) When I advertise my shop I would always put "WTS 85QL Leather and 80QL Cloth items! Also some Rift drops and Rares! http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/151402-pumpin-tannery-and-tailoring/" I have this line saved somewhere on my discord profile so I just copy and paste. I would usually post an hour in between if I don't remember to do it every 30 mins. Oh and that reminds me I have to fix up that line too since I don't have any more Rares lol 4 minutes ago, Reylaark said: Will wait to see what the new UI does, but addressing this when designing that would be great. Option to separate trade channels by server. Option to ignore individual player in current chat box only. Option to custom color certain player-defined text such as PC, Hammer, Rare, Supreme, etc. That way, if I'm looking for a rare hammer, it'll pop out at me within the wall of utter eye-torture people spam. +1 to these ideas! If the second idea is implemented then you can't see the spammers and everyone can live in peace and harmony again in trade chat I would love if they implement your third idea! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 5, 2017 Reward people who don't spam by buying their services when you see them... even if they cost a little more. There are good chances that that type will need the money... unlike the whale, spammer, priest-purchasing merchants anyway... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) I know this is an old thread, but a dustup and private conversation with an 'enthusiastic' moderator regarding Trade Chat has me posting this. Rules do not address SPAM. The only thing I could find on the topic that comes close is this thread, and this only references a 'guideline' or recommendation. Said moderator is stating that 'approximately' 30 minutes is the rule. I asked for a reference and got none. Even the guideline herein of 20 minutes seems severe. If you have 15 minutes to look for a buyer and have everything ready at the mailbox, I don't think someone is going to stand at their mailbox for 60 to 80 minutes hoping their ad catches the eye of someone who might spend 10 minutes in trade chat. Here is a guideline that I think works: Ad of approximately 2 lines posted. Repost should occur approximately 3 to 5 minutes after it leaves the chat window. Responses to ad should be via PM unless the anticipated answer would help others viewing the chat. What we don't need are heavy-handed mods making their own arbitrary rules. Thank you. Edited September 3, 2020 by Nicholai Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 On 7/4/2017 at 6:09 PM, Shmeric said: If there's anything I would change about Trade chat, it would be the option to filter WTB, WTS and PC. This would be great. I have seen WTB that are clear matches to WTS that appear only a few lines above, so I think it is clear that some just don't read anything not right there in the visible window. Separate windows would mean more meaningful information available in each, hopefully. Apart from that, I am not sure how a rules-base approach would necessarily determine spam. Spammers have always been skilled at sailing as close to wind as possible, so any threshold that is set will see the spammers clustering just below it. Personally, I have frequently posted 2 lines as 2 separate wts, both very brief, basically whenever Trade chat seems quietish but still active. From what I see above, this could be considered spamming but I have only ever done this to try to keep the WTS posts short and clear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites