Locking Of Inconvenient Topics

[Taurus 10]

Hello,

I did just read this topic at its full grandeur...

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/68969-stolen-deed-pink-pearl-give-me-back-my-deed/

And I think it is a really poor decision to close a topic like this down.

I did send a hopefully well thought and critic pm to Enki about the whole situation and I think every good player should do so... so they see that we don't let thieves get away with this. I think if more people will do so, we have a real chance to score at this and get a rule or game mechanism changed so our bought (or rented) property is save again.

I am also sorry for Rocky and I hope he will be compensated for this (but I dont have high hopes for this) and yes yes it is not "against the rules"... but I think the staff can also enforce in this situation as I also played other games and a game has never rules for EVERY situation, this is also why you should have a good staff that can decide when it IS time to act and I think it is long past 12... this thiefery should be answered with a fist of steel... and not a small ball of cotton thrown at them.

This whole situation is just the negative PR a mmo needs (not). Especially not before it goes 1.0.

I am really disappointed about the decisions the staff made so far and lost all my faith in them and I think I don't think like this alone. As a fact it is just a matter of time since this negative PR swaps from just ingame and inforum to really big mmo hub sites and kill the storm for Wurm 1.0 off. If it looks like the game is poorly "governed", we will not attract a lot of players even if the new Features will be great... people dont want to lose their Reallife investments in a wink because of thieves... it is like you get robbed on the street and we have a Police-Force for this... what we have in Wurm? (I guess we will see...)

[atazs 965]

You see there are also GMs who randomly remove comments. Its like you post the wrong comment or do something they dont like they remove it and there will be no sign that it was ever there... That needs to change.

[belthize 438]

It was closed because it had run to 8 pages and anything useful to be said stopped around page 3 or 4. Rolf will either do something or not, his game his choice. (For what it's worth if the rules allowed it I'd go from Epic to Exo and help Rocky flatten them, they don't so I'll stay on Epic where they do).

*This* kind of thread is negative PR, the other thread was a very real problem that needed to be pointed out and discussed, this is you not being satisfied with simply PM'ing Enki your 2 cents.

[Judicator 539]

Half my posts get deleted without notice

[atazs 965]

Half my posts get deleted without notice

Exactly.

[Kegan 3,926]

I am guessing there is one guy that is delete happy but we won't get into who that person is...or it would get deleted..heh

[darthryan 588]

I am guessing there is one guy that is delete happy but we won't get into who that person is...or it would get deleted..heh

I blame Elwood.

[Wulfgar 1,132]

You are worried about bad PR, but yet you create more bad PR by making this topic. You should have just sticked with the forum PM to Enki.

I hope this topic vanished completely instead of just getting locked.

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

Inb4 thread about not locking threads gets locked.

[Taurus 10]

You are worried about bad PR, but yet you create more bad PR by making this topic. You should have just sticked with the forum PM to Enki.

I hope this topic vanished completely instead of just getting locked.

Aha...

So why should my topic be bad PR when I call on the support of fellow players so they DO send in Enki their opinion?!

The bad PR is the staff handling such a problem in the wrong way... bad PR is NOT customers asking for the why and the "what will happen now" and the "Please fellow players rise and take your opinion directly to the staff". I am showing my support for people like Rocky and call players to stand up against bad staff game governing as a Unit... things like in the other topic should not even be able to happen game-mechanism-wise.

I also dont get the idea why my topic should be bad PR, as the people can read about the full "Happening" in the other topic... i was politely asking why it was closed... think I have a right for this as customer and someone that does defend free speech.

Also... I am worried about the bad PR leaving this forum and it soon will, because of things are handled like they are in the other topic (and talked down here). I am not spreading anything by writing my opinion here... just worrying that it takes strange dimensions with the latest staff behavior...

Edited November 4, 2012 by Taurus

[Kegan 3,926]

I think the staff is aware of everyones opinions from the other thread and they have made a decision and closed the subject. After that has happened if you feel you have more to say then by all means send the head GMs a pm but topics like this is not helping really. I think that him losing the deed like that is bad but i guess it serves to remind us of that feature/flaw and to be mindful of it. Will the rules change over it i am guessing not but if we are careful with our deeds it would not need to be.

I guess if you really want to help him out you're better off starting a new deed for rocky fund, lol

Edited November 4, 2012 by Kegan

[RomaN 890]

Speaking of randomly deleting posts without notice... Someone put up an auction awhile ago for a pottery jar of fart.

I had no idea what it was or if it was even serious so i asked 'what is this?'. A day later my post was gone. What's up with that?

[ashoof 43]

It seems we need to just take care of ourselves and not expect any help from the governing body when troubles arise.

[Taurus 10]

I think the staff is aware of everyones opinions from the other thread and they have made a decision and closed the subject. After that has happened if you feel you have more to say then by all means send the head GMs a pm but topics like this is not helping really. I think that him losing the deed like that is bad but i guess it serves to remind us of that feature/flaw and to be mindful of it. Will the rules change over it i am guessing not but if we are careful with our deeds it would not need to be.

I guess if you really want to help him out you're better off starting a new deed for rocky fund, lol

I see it quite the opposite way...

Topics like this CAN help to get a rule or game-mechanism changed... it did help in the past.

But if everyone stucks his head under a pillow and think "at least its not my prob" then stuff like this will happen over and over again and someday it might be your deed/money/account/skill you lose by a wrong thing that happened.

I remember the Wurm Community back 1-2 years was more confronting when problems did arise. Today it's all "Staff word is like gods word" and this is not just sickening it's also a dangerous course for a game/community to take. I have seen more than one game go down this road and explode because of it. Stuff like this is usually just the beginning and we have quite some frequency with events like this and staff randomness and strange staff behavior lately... it should be reviewed very deeply.

It seems we need to just take care of ourselves and not expect any help from the governing body when troubles arise.

Oh please stay with this Pro republican "vote for Romney" slogans out of a serious Wurm-related topic... thank you.

[Judicator 539]

It seems we need to just take care of ourselves and not expect any help from the governing body when troubles arise.

Doesnt work at all. This governing body is a private entity, not a representative of the people, like lets say the USA government. If anything, this makes it clear private companies can not be trusted with the power and responsability to control public goods like freedom of speech.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Judicator

[Taurus 10]

There is new information about this whole situation.

Enki did reply to me in a reasonable and kind way and at least for me it did restore some faith. It is a good start.

He did attach an answer to the other topic and explained why the topic was closed, that is a step in the right direction.

I know that GMs can't go into detail sometime about what is going on, but telling a short line why the topic is closed (still the explanation can be held quite general) is a good way to care about customers and this should be the standard procedure.

Still there is a problem with the game-mechanism where citizen could vote you off your own deed.

I think a Dictator should never be able to be voted off his deed (at least for freedom). On wild and epic where spies and intrigues should have room, it should be still possible to vote the mayor out of the deed.

Till this mechanism gets a real revamp the dictator should not be able to voted off the deed in general. I think somewhere after Wurm 1.0 might be some time to solve this problem by really revamping the mechanism so freedomers and wilds/epics have a deed control mechanism that will match the play-style and theme of their servers and server ruleset.

EDIT:

As I did write this... Enki did reply to me about the deed control mechanism and I want to share it with everyone that did not write to him directly.

Enki did write:

We are discussing some things about the issue that even the general players would like to see adjusted. Once we have something workable we will talk to Rolf, however you are free to post a suggestions and ideas thread regarding voting.

Voting is important. Even in a dictatorship. that mechanism is often used to save dying deeds, everyone needs to understand how important it is to be able to not lose everything.

Mayor goes missing - citizens can lose security or even access to everything over time as no one is able to control settings.

Mayor abandons deed - leaves citizens unable to work as originally planned.

Mayor abuses citizens - leaves all the work to the citizens only to kick them and steal all their work and items.

Mayor gets banned - We do not transfer deed control to anyone. Voting is only option if possible.

There are many other reasons that have crept up in the past that required the citizens of a deed to take action against their mayors or be forced to abandon all work there and leave for elsewhere.

Yes it needs to be looked at, perhaps some form of new system or simply a change in who is allowed to vote and how?

(This message is being sent to multiple people requesting info on this topic.)

Edited November 4, 2012 by Taurus

[ashoof 43]

I see it quite the opposite way...

Topics like this CAN help to get a rule or game-mechanism changed... it did help in the past.

But if everyone stucks his head under a pillow and think "at least its not my prob" then stuff like this will happen over and over again and someday it might be your deed/money/account/skill you lose by a wrong thing that happened.

I remember the Wurm Community back 1-2 years was more confronting when problems did arise. Today it's all "Staff word is like gods word" and this is not just sickening it's also a dangerous course for a game/community to take. I have seen more than one game go down this road and explode because of it. Stuff like this is usually just the beginning and we have quite some frequency with events like this and staff randomness and strange staff behavior lately... it should be reviewed very deeply.

Oh please stay with this Pro republican "vote for Romney" slogans out of a serious Wurm-related topic... thank you.

Im not the one bringing RL politics into a game am I?

Lol

Whatever though

Edited November 4, 2012 by ashoof

[Keldun 335]

Trying to shut up the opposition is rarely an effective and never the right way to handle things.

Also the reason Enki gave for closing the thread is a bit fishy.

Sure at the beginning there was a lack of information and some misinterpretation, but Rocky cleared that up in the course of the thread and that only gave him more support and more opposition with the GMs ruling.

The thread was a bid sidetracked by the trader but there are a lot of other threads that are way more off topic at times than that and barely anyone cares.

[KunAlt 844]

...

Enki did write:

We are discussing some things about the issue that even the general players would like to see adjusted. Once we have something workable we will talk to Rolf, however you are free to post a suggestions and ideas thread regarding voting.

Voting is important. Even in a dictatorship. that mechanism is often used to save dying deeds, everyone needs to understand how important it is to be able to not lose everything.

Mayor goes missing - citizens can lose security or even access to everything over time as no one is able to control settings.

Mayor abandons deed - leaves citizens unable to work as originally planned.

Mayor abuses citizens - leaves all the work to the citizens only to kick them and steal all their work and items.

Mayor gets banned - We do not transfer deed control to anyone. Voting is only option if possible.

There are many other reasons that have crept up in the past that required the citizens of a deed to take action against their mayors or be forced to abandon all work there and leave for elsewhere.

Yes it needs to be looked at, perhaps some form of new system or simply a change in who is allowed to vote and how?

(This message is being sent to multiple people requesting info on this topic.)

Not a single one of this is a valid razon to let a random dude take over the deed of his owner.

Mayor goes missing, time to move, the deed pertains to the major as long as up keeps remains, citizens aren´t forced to fund the up keep, if do it do it freelly and gain no rigth.

Mayrs abandons deed, still same applies, is his deed in the first place, and have the rigth to leave it as a haunted place for 100 years if he like, his deed, his money, his rules.

Mayor abuse citizens, this is a fallacie at best, we as wurmians are free, we aren´t forced to live/work in a deed, we can choose to leave a deed even in the same minute that we joined. Wen you join a deed you know that you will never own or take control of your house, you then decide to sacrifice this liberty for other benefits like decay protection, templars jelp with the wild life, protection against thiefs and enclosure bashers, etc. No mayor can abuse citizens since citizens are able to revoke his citicenship asap.

Mayor gets banned - We do not transfer deed control to anyone. This is maybe the only valid point, but again, this is your fault, and non-banned mayors shouldn´t be penalized for your lack of hability to manage such a situation.

The other razons don´t get mentioned, i guess because are yet worst that the ones exposed.

Salu2.

[Judicator 539]

Why did he allow his villagers to invite others.

[Jarosz 189]

I know I would have quit after that incident. There should be a way to lock Deed ownership, or at least a better instruction on what it all means. Right now, the trader is selling lemons and hoping you will buy in.

If RL money wasn't involved, I would say that the voting system should stay... however, this is people's RL investment in Entertainment, not just sit and click. I for one would have gotten myself banned from forums with PR nightmares had this happened to me.

[JackBurton 903]

You are worried about bad PR, but yet you create more bad PR by making this topic. You should have just sticked with the forum PM to Enki.

I hope this topic vanished completely instead of just getting locked.

I say BOO to you pal. Your arrogance is the reason people get fed up with volunteer staff in this game.

With all this talk of PR, do any of you really consider this game to have any type of conventional PR? I'll be forgiving and just ask that if there is a PR department, does it actually stay in contact with the developers of this game? I suspect that PR in this game, with respect to the staff, involves sitting on one's hands until the proper amount of damage control can be done. In the meantime, delete any condescending posts and threads pertaining to the problem. After all, if there are no bad posts, then there is no problem...and hence no bad PR. Great business model there Wulfgar.

Here's a clue for you guys that might be thinking you are the next PR wizard. As soon as a problem like this arises, put out a blanket statement in a stickied thread stating that the issue is being investigated and then give an ETA for when a decision will be given. At least at that point the community will have confidence that someone is at least looking into the matter and doing it in a timely manner. What we have right now is a bunch of ###### ######s running around, in thread after thread, in a forum riot deleting posts and waving their ###### all over the place. It's messy and for anyone to be in here saying that a paying customer starting a complaint thread is the PR problem should be given the boot from anything dealing with customer satisfaction.

[ianrose 125]

Keep in mind when threads get locked, no one has all the relevant information simply from reading what was presented in the thread. The issue of hostile takeovers of deeds is definitely being discussed by the way, and may change soon.

[atazs 965]

Keep in mind when threads get locked, no one has all the relevant information simply from reading what was presented in the thread. The issue of hostile takeovers of deeds is definitely being discussed by the way, and may change soon.

I see but its all we can see. If people complain, in the end the thread gets locked with a GM saying. This matter is being looked into so closing this thread, or take this to oracle/enki, closing this thread. But then nothing happens anyway. We get no ETA no official word from rolf or anyone its just: this is being looked into. Then it gets forgotten... Sometimes we get even less. One time the hota got bugged and we brought it up to rolf in the wurm irc channel because its the only way we can effectively communicate. No reply. We brought it up in GL freedom. Still no reply. Then someone who was apparently in the dev irc channel said rolf is looking into it. Well why is that that we get no official word and only get to know that its being actually worked on is from some guy in GL freedom?! This is the main problem with the game. The lack of communication between rolf and the community... In a thread where we brought up the lack of patches lately, Manny said that the reason for that is because rolf is doing something. Well then tell me why cant Rolf himself make a thread about it saying why there are no patches lately. I mean why do we have to ask this? Doesnt Rolf realize? Why are we getting updates about the state of things and news only when we ask for it from Rolf or from other members of staff? This should come automatically from the Dev or the PR team WITHOUT asking. Sorry if i went a bit off topic here

Edited November 4, 2012 by atazs

[Suntzu 644]

For the same reason there is a thread about a disbanded pmk stickyed in the epic board. LOL