Revert the nerf to foraging and botanizing

[Anglomango 116]

Apparently we cant forage and botanize on normal grass tiles anymore. Please add  this feature back to the game.

[Red_ 334]

I've refrained from saying much or anything really about this foraging/botanizing update, but this right here is my main issue with it. Part of the appeal of some skills, especially foraging/botanizing is to be able to mindlessly grind. I enjoyed walking around tile by tile, excited to see if I'd hit an MOI. I did foraging/botanizing alongside my archaeology grind. I found it fun.

Instead now we're being pushed to no longer rely on tiles in game, but visual cues as to where we are able to botanize/forage. This has ruined one of my favorite fun and relaxing skills that I enjoyed.

I'm all for changes and updates, but I feel like this one wasn't necessary.

 

I would be very happy if the option to forage/botanize would still be an option as a tile by tile basis, alongside the nodes. Maybe have the nodes give MORE items upon success? Just an idea.

I try to be positive with my posts when I do say something, so I guess the main upside is at least I'll have archaeology, and I can still walk around to find fragments randomly on tiles. 

[Simyaci 425]

Keep the old system, keep the new system, balance them out. I'd much prefer if the old system more often gave you stuff more often that'd be logically more commonly found on the ground like iron ores while the new system gave you what would be more likely to be found huddled together more often. 

[DannyUK 212]

Yes I agree, I'm not liking this system so far. You don't get much back from 1 pile for a start, this is not going to get me to go out far from the deed just to look for piles if you don't get much back. I also liked the way you went around clicking on tiles to forage. The snow piles certainly take longer to collect 100 snowballs, luckily I don't use them, I use a LMC but for players who do use them this is making it harder for them not easier.

 

I'm hoping things adjust with this new system, it is not making it worthwhile for me to go out and collect on these nodes if that's what it's supposed to be for, getting people out. Can't you keep the old system as well as having nodes? Maybe give more incentive to go out collecting these nodes over searching tiles, that way you keep everyone happy.

[Blueheart 172]

Like Red I tried to not say anything about this.

 

I tend to keep neutral about most things because I think sometimes a change is needed in certain areas. Even though I might not enjoy it the same amount as others would, there's no reason for me to just slam the update and say that its bad without properly seeing it in a live state first.

 

I cannot begin to put into words the amount of disappointment I've felt today with the changes, yes the nodes look lovely, but paying 1s to stop my deed from looking cluttered? Someone on Discord said it better earlier, you've created a problem, and made us pay to fix it. And not only have you put this in, you've also embedded this into the NPC that kills hostiles (I'm fully aware this can be turned off, but as a lot of other people are rightly concerned, all it takes is a bug and you're in trouble)

 

There are other sectors of the game that desperately needed attention, performance issues that are being noted by multiple members of the community, the PvP community being given nothing, and instead of touching on the areas that really seem like they need an update, we've stepped backwards and changed something that seemed decent before

 

Did this really need changing? Did we really need an update to a system that works already? I think of all the things I've seen lately, this could've been the update that was put back a bit in favour of proper QoL and performance improvements

 

I don't expect everyone to agree with this, and I'm fine if you think otherwise, however, something that I've now enjoyed doing has seemingly vanished in favour of something that has now split the community opinion in half, there probably was a balance that would have allowed both systems to co-exist, it just required some time and communication with the community to find it.

 

There are bigger priorities at this point...

 

EDIT- sorry there’s a lot of words there

 

TL;DR - Make both systems co-exist, to keep both sides happy, remove the payment requirement to keep nodes off deed

Edited December 5, 2023 by Blueheart
I added a TLDR because I ran off a bit and wrote too much

[Ekcin 2,425]

I said already, this nerf disenfranchises high skill foragers and botanizers denying any meaningful skill gain. I botanized about 30 times, with zero skill gain, only Soul and SD. I foraged as often, getting 2 ticks, 0.00015 altogether. The response I got was "get drunk".

 

Skill gain over time was similar to mining rock with high ql pick at my 99.95 skill.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Ekcin

[Jaz 2,666]

Just now, Ekcin said:

I said already, this nerf disenfranchises high skill foragers and botanizers denying any meaningful skill gain. I botanized about 30 times, with zero skill gain, only Soul and SD. I foraged as often, getting 2 ticks, 0.00015 altogether. The response I got was "get drunk".

Yes quite 0 skillgain at 70 botanize. Not that I did it too much I could not really keep getting used to the glow.

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

Honestly, this is very much a nerf in its current form - it's a good idea, but the execution is just not there yet.

 

Reducing coin income for free players (less rolls, less chances!).  It's making it harder for new players to find specific resources (the "good" nodes will be picked, the "bad" nodes will remain and rot).

 

"Balancing" the skilling loss with CoC is just cruel - it is a nerf for anyone who isn't going to pay a premium player for a 101 CoC cast.

 

My mountain is one big snowdrift (it is winter, we shall see what spring brings), and the recompense for not getting gems is just snow.  Nope, that's a straight up nerf to my home - that has existed since the day Xanadu was founded, and whose creation was a monumental effort in tunneling, terraforming, and travel.

[Ekcin 2,425]

I want to add that my "remarkable" skill gains were earned with gloves CoC101and 102, both with bronze rune of Libila. Adding difficulty to nodes was one of the most braindead ideas. When I started as a newbie, I never had any restriction from low foraging skill other than the ql of the outcome, varying up to +20 from start skill, later the variance declined, at my skill of 99.83 it was between 99.81 and 99.86.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Ekcin

[topkos 505]

-1

[Anglomango 116]

13 minutes ago, topkos said:

-1

I'm curious about your perspective on the decision to remove features from the game that many players seem to enjoy. What leads you to believe that this change is a positive development?

[Silberry 27]

The really depressing thing for me is the feeling that much of the world around me is now dead, I cannot interact with it anymore.

[topkos 505]

1 hour ago, Anglomango said:

I'm curious about your perspective on the decision to remove features from the game that many players seem to enjoy. What leads you to believe that this change is a positive development?

I usually answer only to people that speak by themselves. Not to those that mention “community” or “many players”.

If you played the game, and read GL, those with your opinion are the few, not the Many.

[Anglomango 116]

12 minutes ago, topkos said:

I usually answer only to people that speak by themselves. Not to those that mention “community” or “many players”.

If you played the game, and read GL, those with your opinion are the few, not the Many.

Fair, I just don't understand how this is a positive for the game. I know personally this is going to have a negative impact on how I play and experience the game. Also from what I have seen my opinion is hardly the "few" you might want to make us out to be. 

[Cecci 1,612]

48 minutes ago, topkos said:

I usually answer only to people that speak by themselves. Not to those that mention “community” or “many players”.

If you played the game, and read GL, those with your opinion are the few, not the Many.

Seriously, it is in the middle of the night in Europe, you should have been in GL earlier.

[garforl 163]

I certainly like the change. Visual elements are more appealing and overall it feels like I'm actually foraging. To a minor degree it feels like XP rates are slower but oh well. Felt silly that every tile in the world was an empty, searchable spot.

 

Finding myself foraging more often now. In particular animal burrows.

 

Really liking how snow is said to work. Interested to see what happens once winter season is over.

[Kswords 461]

+0
Raise the skillgain.
I enjoy this update it lets me pick specific nodes to find for food when I'm in the wilderness without a meal.
Instead of having to forage a dozen tiles for a few veggies I can go to 1 node and find everything I need to make a decently sized meal.

[TheTrickster 2,291]

7 hours ago, topkos said:

I usually answer only to people that speak by themselves. Not to those that mention “community” or “many players”.

If you played the game, and read GL, those with your opinion are the few, not the Many.

See how you criticized the doing of a thing and then did the thing?  That has a name.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by TheTrickster

[Parsiuk 38]

I don't get it.. Wasn't this tested on.. well.. test server? Why no one complained then and I hear moaning now?

[Jaz 2,666]

4 minutes ago, Parsiuk said:

I don't get it.. Wasn't this tested on.. well.. test server? Why no one complained then and I hear moaning now?

Well... The same things were raised by multiple players in the test thread.

[Ekcin 2,425]

I had voiced the concerns I could see in the test thread, they mainly got ridiculed, I felt myself mobbed out by the fandom. Even after testing the snow stuff after the patch, I got rebuffs, when telling that it took me 41 minutes to collect 100 snow of mixed ql, the answers were "I got it faster", "Ql does not matter for larders", and "Use a LMC, forget larders". For the skillgain nerf "Get drunk", not sure whether ingame or RL.

[Finnn 3,322]

+1

[thibbledorf 45]

-1.

Wurmians screaming for updates, and every time there is an update, they want it reverted it within the first day.

Do you actually want people spending their free time volunteering to make updates and fix bugs, or do you just prefer the same game you started 10+ years ago, with no changes? Let's go back to ? bags for graphics and 1fps.

 

I hear they will change the requirement for templars to keep our deeds clean. I would rather they try to fix skill gain for the higher ranges, if there is a problem, than reverting an update that had a lot of hard work put into it. We shouldn't require alcohol to play the game, or coffee

[Ekcin 2,425]

I am not really in for reverting, as I see the positive sides of the change. Personally, I consider it a walk to the wrong side though. The idea of destroying existing foraging and botanizing may stem from a faction hating that system as "boring" which can be said about a lot of activities in Wurm. Further on, the "creative destruction" concept, completely overthrowing an existing system, reminds of neoliberal ideology with its contempts for others' woes or suffering. Also, the "new" system looks to be somewhat plagiarized from "more modern" games.

 

But it is of course right that any desire to completely abandon the change is irrealistic, and would be a slap in the face of those who invested a lot of good and valuable work into it. Thinking about at least some sort of reinstallation of the old ways, in addition, would not be wrong, though.

 

I would see the changes as a partial failure which alienated at least as many players as it pleased. That is not a good move, and rants about "conservative veterans" are also dangerous and wrong. It is the "conservatism" of stubborn veterans clinging to a niche game which held Wurm afloat over now nearly 20 years. Alienating this part of the community in the hope to grab new Tiktokers or Fortniters is a dangerous bet.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Ekcin
typo

[Tor 531]

-1 i think in general the new system is not that bad even tho it's not too impressive and not really needed point to focus on, but we got it and it seems there's no going back.  So maybe better to focus on suggesting how to make it better while it's hot or that train might pass as well

 

5 hours ago, Parsiuk said:

I don't get it.. Wasn't this tested on.. well.. test server? Why no one complained then and I hear moaning now?

And why do i have to hear you are moaning now for?