Let SFI portal to Defiance

[Guvna 110]

Back in the day we had Retro tell us they were working on behind the scenes engine changes and systems and Epic PvP will be focused on after that. Staff issues happened and development issues - which pushed back pvp updates - then we had pvp updates which were then left un-tweaked for so long it killed the game. Imagine dropping a spell, armour system then saying *we done* and not make NO tweaks. You know No Mans Sky and Cyberpunk would remain terrible if they followed your attitude towards any update which basically Takes way to long to make obvious changes. For example Karma teleport into deed only took you x years to make the only logical choice on the table. You'll probably drop the portal next year and half arse it like the epic ones, where we were basically telling you that Epic will die because you've made it a 1 way skill trasnfer. Look at the pop now and for the last few years. You had the ability then and there to create what we're asking for now and dropped the ball. 

Anyway now that the history has been laid you, you can see why you look like you've taken the blue tardis, kicked retro out of his seat and clicked Submit reply before he could lol. You're saying the excact thing he did, anybody here is welcome to go back and look  It's all archived. 

With that being said, what is the development time towards Portals thats going to Stop these systems? Because you're looking after a new player that doesn't exist yet whilst paying customers, who er, are the ones who will be keeping your game alive to even develop towards having those players join, who have the power to make the videos to get new players to come play new systems on the back burner - Not even just pvpers. So please explain to us why putting off the portal update is going to make such a big impact on developement towards the systems, why should we wait x months for something that doesn't exist vs players, paying SUB, exisiting. How long would it take to make this pvp merge happen and weigh up the pro's of income now vs doing this later - Because you just spoke down on us with "IM SURE THE NEW PLAYERS IN THE FUTURE WILL LIKE IT EVEN IF YOU WONT" you're talking to the community who asked for 5 years to get SOTG nerf'd, Curves introduced, Fresh starts and faster skill gain for new players Bud, Don't tell us what new players will and won't like when we've been here advocating pvp changes for them. Don't forget half of the defiance rules which are made for new players were given to you by us, the players.

Change of attitude needed. Drop the portal now and work on the systems after so we can enjoy what we pay for and not have to pay prem waiting whilst you dump our money on systems for people who arent paying you yet?
Why you repeating history which shows player loss - lol. Just give us the portal we will pvp and make content, you can work on systems, both sides happy and content lined up ready for new players?

Doubt me about the content? I'm 1 player. I havent even dropped half the content we've created in OCTOBER ALONE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

don't even make me post the other content creators videos.

You are missing the target. @Krister

Edited October 15, 2023 by Guvna

[Tedzogh 326]

Well spoken @Guvna!

 

This will need to happen soon!

It is a win win with no backsides of the coin.

pve wont be affected at all. (those of you who think that need to go back and read the suggestion again)

I think i havnt seen a single pvp player downvoting it.

What are you guys waiting for? players to give up compleatly in the game and never come back?

Becaus that is surly what is going to happen if you dont act quickly.

 

[Bumbum 18]

+1

[Raix 100]

On 10/13/2023 at 9:52 AM, Army said:

Pretty much the whole action code is getting a rewrite at the moment. It's a lot of (sometimes 15+ years old) code, related to many other things in the game. It will make future development easier and the game more accessible once combined with the new action UI.

The renderer is also getting some love. Better effects, better visuals, better gameplay feel, better performance. Maybe you don't care about it, but I'm sure that new potential players will.

First and foremost, I want to hope you don't get discouraged by the tone of the player base. Don't take things too personally. Just remind yourself that the community is very passionate about this game.

Now, I can't speak for everyone who PVPs, but I can acknowledge that the graphics and action changes are probably going to be some good changes. The teasers look cool. They look like good stepping stones for moving the game forward. The problem that I'm seeing is that we're told time and time again that it is not the time to work on PVP changes. This is being discerned as "there will never be a good time to work on PVP changes". We have enough insight to know that once this huge update drops, the devs will be busy with tracking down bugfixes and trying to replicate exploits and taking time to fix those. We'll be told again that those things take priority. Then, maybe (just a prediction, please prove me wrong), the devs will say they need to make good on their promise of the goblin camps and PVP will be pushed back again.

What is even more frustrating is that we're not asking for some new PVP ruleset or for the devs to put in time to make magic turrets and warmachines great again (even though they never worked right in the first place). Most of us are simply asking for SFI to have a portal to Defiance. Whoever implemented the Defiance portals between Defiance and the NFI servers should have a pretty good idea of how they work and could add them to the crafting options for SFI with what I assume would be little effort.

Please, just give us a bone.

 

[Wurmhole 3,650]

Please just combine NFI and SFI and get it over with.  All one economy.  Then retrofit Chaos to be like Defiance.  Allow normal travel between them and only itemless travel from either of them to the freedom servers.  Nothing should travel from PVP to PvE servers and visa versa.  Yes, a bunch of people don't want full merging of SFI and NFI, but it is going to happen one day, so might as well just rip the bandaid off and put that one to bed already.  Chaos folks will not be happy about losing their revenue stream, but if Defiance is the better PvP model, why on earth keep Chaos the way it is?  Why the heck are any of the other dead PvP servers still running?  What a waste of resources and poor use of the limited funds Game Chest has to spend on this game.

 

 

[Deltadoggg 74]

I couldn't agree more than what both @Guvnaand @Raixhave both said.

[Omar 479]

I feel like any plans without player input are going to be a big disappointment 😕 
Wurm could put in a PvP player council group like EvEonline. It could help with many things, improved atmosphere, less complaining, Staff can communicate and influence the players reducing their workload with things like support tickets. But most importantly get feedback on potential changes. 
Or even just a few scheduled discord discussions. 

I think Krister said he wanted to have a single player rep, should we come up with 5? for a proposed a pvp council group? Thoughts? Personally I don't like the idea of 1.
 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Omar

[Madnath 3,113]

On 10/13/2023 at 4:52 PM, Army said:

Because this is greatly beneficial in the long run. (last development update, in case someone missed it)

The renderer is also getting some love. Better effects, better visuals, better gameplay feel, better performance. Maybe you don't care about it, but I'm sure that new potential players will.

 

For the longest time we've been getting updates that "improve performance and visuals" and while visuals have improved the performance has been a rollercoaster ride of getting better and worse.

It's incredibly clear that the PvP playerbase is taken for granted, promised updates and content while being left in the cold for yet more and more Freedom focused content.

The worst part? It's obvious you can't see the forest for the trees. In your focus of new player retention you're forgetting that current player retention of the PvP community is on unsteady ground. The community understands a merge of servers with a revised Defiance ruleset, if any ruleset is enforced at all, isn't a quick job and would take some time. But when the word is just "we're talking about it still" it inspires no faith, hope or confidence.

 

To those of you like me who feel a significantly diminised connection to the game, vote with your wallet and show a hit to their graphs and statistics.

To those of you still somehow hooked onto this ride, continue to pay and play. Nobody is judging but I cannot chuck real money at this game just to be the schmuck who thinks something will happen.

 

22 hours ago, Zenity said:

but I'm sad to inform you that Epic was promised that someone would look at Epic years ago, Epic is still waiting... It's dead because no one actually cared.

 

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

[Marku 24]

9 minutes ago, Madnath said:

 

For the longest time we've been getting updates that "improve performance and visuals" and while visuals have improved the performance has been a rollercoaster ride of getting better and worse.

It's incredibly clear that the PvP playerbase is taken for granted, promised updates and content while being left in the cold for yet more and more Freedom focused content.

The worst part? It's obvious you can't see the forest for the trees. In your focus of new player retention you're forgetting that current player retention of the PvP community is on unsteady ground. The community understands a merge of servers with a revised Defiance ruleset, if any ruleset is enforced at all, isn't a quick job and would take some time. But when the word is just "we're talking about it still" it inspires no faith, hope or confidence.

 

To those of you like me who feel a significantly diminised connection to the game, vote with your wallet and show a hit to their graphs and statistics.

To those of you still somehow hooked onto this ride, continue to pay and play. Nobody is judging but I cannot chuck real money at this game just to be the schmuck who thinks something will happen.

 

 

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

 

@Madnath, In my opinion; the reality is that now and in the future there will always be more PvE than PvP players, so it makes sense that they need to focus on the new player retention to help with the game's long term population/growth , once that shows an improvement then they can//should focus on pvp, those new players afterall can be turned into pvp players too.

 

"Voting with your Wallet" remark in my view is not helpful and does more harm than good for the game we love. If Wurm closes down what will we play then that is even close in comparsion? I understand PvPers frustrations but doesn't help Wurm.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Marku

[Atndy 385]

24 minutes ago, Marku said:

 

@Madnath, In my opinion; the reality is that now and in the future there will always be more PvE than PvP players, so it makes sense that they need to focus on the new player retention to help with the game's long term population/growth , once that shows an improvement then they can//should focus on pvp, those new players afterall can be turned into pvp players too.

 

"Voting with your Wallet" remark in my view is not helpful and does more harm than good for the game we love. If Wurm closes down what will we play then that is even close in comparsion? I understand PvPers frustrations but doesn't help Wurm.

 Are you suggesting how people should spend their money? I was told long ago pay for the game you are currently playing not the one you want to play. I don't think I want to pay for the game currently provided to me. 100% vote with your money. Capitalism is the blood of everything. 

 

Ps. I'm not sure if you played epic or not but I'm pretty sure we were steady 1500 player count on a complete pvp server.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Atndy

[Oblivionnreaver 5,175]

25 minutes ago, Marku said:

@Madnath, In my opinion; the reality is that now and in the future there will always be more PvE than PvP players, so it makes sense that they need to focus on the new player retention to help with the game's long term population/growth , once that shows an improvement then they can//should focus on pvp, those new players afterall can be turned into pvp players too.

"we're busy with x but we'll look at pvp after" 

is

On 2/6/2023 at 4:01 AM, Darklords said:

We will be hitting PvP related things but we are rethinking the approach to that still and we will be discussing PvP stuff off on its own when we decide what route to take.

a

On 5/17/2022 at 11:15 PM, Keenan said:

I still intend for us to work on PvP and decor in the months after Exploration is finished

long

On 4/8/2022 at 9:56 AM, Keenan said:

As I suspect Exploration will push into late spring or early summer for the second update, the rest of the year will be dedicated to the things I mentioned previously. This includes PvP (Epic, Chaos, and Defiance),

standing

On 2/22/2022 at 10:56 AM, Keenan said:

put attention on PvP and the needs of that community

meme

 

the last update to pvp that wasn't "removed x on pvp" or "readded x that was already on y server" was the defiance launch. if you don't play on defiance the last pvp update was the epic relaunch in mid-2019

On 6/4/2019 at 7:53 AM, Darklords said:

This is absolutely just short term bandaids people where told that they could have temporary solutions like this to fill the gap or wait till around november when bigger things are planned.  People expressed they would be alright with some simple to implement but changes to still throw the meta up with another full reset likely coming near the end of the year so that's the approach that was taken for this.

which came with the promise of proper work at the end of the year which was broken. if you didn't play either epic or defiance, the last sizable pvp update was sindusks priest rework at the end of 2018. 5 years ago. there's only so many times you can say "we're listening to the pvp community and discussing changes internally " before people aren't going to take it for an answer. people absolutely should vote with their wallet. this isn't even people asking for focus on pvp, this is people asking for a ###### day of a devs time to do something basically the whole pvp community agrees on.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Oblivionnreaver

[Atndy 385]

10 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

"we're busy with x but we'll look at pvp after" 

is

a

long

standing

meme

 

the last update to pvp that wasn't "removed x on pvp" or "readded x that was already on y server" was the defiance launch. if you don't play on defiance the last pvp update was the epic relaunch in mid-2019

which came with the promise of proper work at the end of the year which was broken. if you didn't play either epic or defiance, the last sizable pvp update was sindusks priest rework at the end of 2018. 5 years ago. there's only so many times you can say "we're listening to the pvp community and discussing changes internally " before people aren't going to take it for an answer. people absolutely should vote with their wallet. this isn't even people asking for focus on pvp, this is people asking for a ###### day of a devs time to do something basically the whole pvp community agrees on.

Can I pay money to give this man gold like reddit. Can't like a post enough. 

[Wulfgarr 810]

+1, lets keep the ball rolling. Was away from wurm for 3 years hoping something happens with pvp, why not merge the pvp players into one server and not worry about catering to 3 different sets of rules. Easy teleport portal so everyone can enjoy and the pvp community will be healthy again. No item transfer means no issues with the "market". 

[Madnath 3,113]

2 hours ago, Marku said:

 

@Madnath, In my opinion; the reality is that now and in the future there will always be more PvE than PvP players, so it makes sense that they need to focus on the new player retention to help with the game's long term population/growth

 

In my opinion this sounds like we should settle for simply being 2nd rate citizens. Like the posts said above, no, voting with your wallet is absolutely a fair and justified move.

When I came to Wurm, my options were both PvE and PvP with both sides getting active work and development with a playerbase. The game still markets to people saying the game offers PvP. Now the development has been at a standstill for PvP, I feel my choices are limited and I'm not as interested anymore. Why the CHRIST would I pay into it still? I'm not a pay pig, if I'm not being served in any reasonable way, why would I shovel money into it?

 

Let's do the food analogy meme too, just for the fun of it.

I came to this restaurant because I was told I could have steak or I could have a vegetarian dish. Upon being sat down and my order being taken, I'm left being sat in place with a vague notion of "food is coming we swear" even when it very clearly isn't. Why wouldn't I stand up and leave?

 

Let's also blindly ignore the point of; no wonder PvP is less popular, it's because of this lack of development.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Madnath

[Emi 182]

all we want for Christmas is a pvp merge.. pls tell Santa Wurm 🎅 🐉

[Blazecraze 462]

Player retention is a joke, its a game thats been losing players consistently since 2012. 

 

I don't want anyone to bring up the NFI numbers either, we all know multiple full time SFI players that run 2--5 accounts on NFI at the same time that also boost up the numbers.

 

I don't care if PvE will always remain more populace than PvP and I think vote with wallet is more than worthwhile.

 

As always, same dodgy remarks, same dodgy view, different mouth to deliver it from. 

[Atndy 385]

1) Makes balancing and updates easier to implement with one server.

2) makes going and moderating easier with one server.

3) finally gives the pvp something to keep them busy 

4) no need to make it perfect off the start. Put the wrinkled sheet on the bed and we can iron it slowly over time.

5) we aren't asking the dev teams to move mountains. Generate a map. Enable pvp, put on defiance rule set for now and allow people to portal. Give a time frame and close down all other pvp servers. 

 

 

Please strike while the irons hot. Don't wait for every pvper to quit the game before you realize you should have done something. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Atndy

[Carmichael 688]

If it takes years to get a proper update out. I wonder how long the ironing out would take 😂😂

[Deltadoggg 74]

8 hours ago, Marku said:

 

@Madnath, In my opinion; the reality is that now and in the future there will always be more PvE than PvP players, so it makes sense that they need to focus on the new player retention to help with the game's long term population/growth , once that shows an improvement then they can//should focus on pvp, those new players afterall can be turned into pvp players too.

 

Yes there are more PvE players. But you can not expect to keep players on a PvP server or be remotely interested in PvP,  when we do not receive any updates, attention. Time after time promised updates that never get delivered.

 

[TheTrickster 2,290]

15 hours ago, Marku said:

@Madnath, In my opinion; the reality is that now and in the future there will always be more PvE than PvP players, so it makes sense that they need to focus on the new player retention to help with the game's long term population/growth , once that shows an improvement then they can//should focus on pvp, those new players afterall can be turned into pvp players too.

 

"Voting with your Wallet" remark in my view is not helpful and does more harm than good for the game we love. If Wurm closes down what will we play then that is even close in comparsion? I understand PvPers frustrations but doesn't help Wurm.

@Marku I get that you are ALSO a player, but notice that your avatar/icon comes with a "Senior Forum Moderator" tag, meaning that nothing you post is ONLY a player opinion but has the weight of "STAFF" behind it.  As such, I actually think it is the above remark that is not helpful and doesn't help Wurm.  You are, as a declared staff member, telling PvP players they should be satisfied being the last priority - to only be addressed after player retention is solved.  Player retention has never and likely will never be solved, so you are telling an entire grouping of Wurm players that they should continue paying for a game that will never have developer attention specifically relevant to them.  

 

To paraphrase "It is reasonable that Wurm gives you nothing more than you have already received for the foreseeable future, but it is unreasonable that you give Wurm nothing more than you have already given in return."   

 

As players, voting with our wallet is the only option.  As much as we are told that devs read and discuss all suggestions, the practical outcomes that we see indicate that most of what we say in the fora carries no real weight.  There is something that feels a little bit coercive about suggesting that if people who are not getting the product they want stop paying for the product they don't want, then they will be the responsible for the failure of the business.  Successful business is about selling a product people want and are willing to pay for.

 

I don't PvP, but geez man, PvPers deserve a playable game, too.

Edited October 17, 2023 by TheTrickster

[Omar 479]

12 hours ago, Atndy said:

1) Makes balancing and updates easier to implement with one server.

2) makes going and moderating easier with one server.

3) finally gives the pvp something to keep them busy 

4) no need to make it perfect off the start. Put the wrinkled sheet on the bed and we can iron it slowly over time.

5) we aren't asking the dev teams to move mountains. Generate a map. Enable pvp, put on defiance rule set for now and allow people to portal. Give a time frame and close down all other pvp servers. 

 

 

Please strike while the irons hot. Don't wait for every pvper to quit the game before you realize you should have done something. 

100

[Camelrider 209]

19 hours ago, Marku said:

 

@Madnath, In my opinion; the reality is that now and in the future there will always be more PvE than PvP players, so it makes sense that they need to focus on the new player retention to help with the game's long term population/growth , once that shows an improvement then they can//should focus on pvp, those new players afterall can be turned into pvp players too.

 

"Voting with your Wallet" remark in my view is not helpful and does more harm than good for the game we love. If Wurm closes down what will we play then that is even close in comparsion? I understand PvPers frustrations but doesn't help Wurm.

 

When i started the game, PvP was the largest part of the playerbase. When i started the game, PvP made up most of the income of the game. Ten years afterwards, PvP still made up most of the income of the game.

 

Ever since Rolf's departure, the updates for PvP have been super far apart, it's not much of a wonder to guess why its not very large and doesn't generate much revenue anymore.

[Wulfgarr 810]

The funny part about this is, that if you made the portals many PvE players will probably try it out from SFI as well. I have said it in the past and i will say it again. The pvp part of the game really makes it feel alive. So many mechanics ingame feel so much better in PvP. Like terraforming, deeds, combat, different weapon/enchant combos etc. Priests - they more utility then Nimb/Coc/Woa/Botd/LT, much more. So many of the skills that are on PvE side nice to have become so much better to have on PvP side of the game. I truly believe that game shines on PvP servers. And so do others! Please let us join together on one server instead of fragmenting us between multiple servers. 

[user 608]

I'll be honest, we're not asking for much. Just a little bit of dev time to make the game playable. The continuous pushing of the puck needs to stop it's unacceptable. Either care about half your playerbase or say you've given up on PVP and it's staying as is, people keep getting their hopes up and spending a vast amount of time and or money for prem. It's extremely shady and poor business how this keeps happening.

[Nicephoros 2]

I think Choas should be the only PvP server and everything else PvE, connect NFI and SFI get rid of epic - then you can just sail between them, as for the other detaisl i leave up to you