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oJNC31a.png

PRICE LIST ABOVE

 

Rules:

 

1. Repair it before sending.

2.Send your shield to Kubon and rename it with desired ql and your name.

3. Minimum order value = 15c.

4. All orders will be made within 48 hours - if not you got it for free - unless order 100x 90ql shields :)

5.No longer fee for making shields rare/sup/fan!

 

 

I also sell new shields, prices 80% as listed (<60 column)

Edited by Kubon
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Buddy you don't have right to keep someones shiled just because it increased rarity while you were imping...Many people want exact shield with it's rune, enchant and signature, compesating with other shield or basicly forcing to buy back from you my shield if it turns fantastic at price probably outside of my price range while i simply wanted imp is huge reason not to use your service, but maybe thats just me...

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2 hours ago, kochinac said:

Buddy you don't have right to keep someones shiled just because it increased rarity while you were imping...Many people want exact shield with it's rune, enchant and signature, compesating with other shield or basicly forcing to buy back from you my shield if it turns fantastic at price probably outside of my price range while i simply wanted imp is huge reason not to use your service, but maybe thats just me...

 

Thank you for response, that's the problem i knew someone will ask. As you can see I'm new on forum and still learn how people rule their  ingame economy activity. This is my first way of earning so every feedback worth a lot.

 

Back to what you said, please note that turning rare/ supreme is something that happens quite often (for me at least) and it would be unprofitable for me to offer you improvements without any compensation for increasing rarity - I would imp shields for myself and ten sell them if become rare. That's something I don't want to do - my earning would depends mostly on luck and would be verry variable, that's why my offer looks like that. Of course it doesn't mean prices are not negotiable. I'm verry flexible and I want to satisfy your needs. How do you find adding an option (name it insurance) to pay let's say 20% more if you want me to resign from rarity fee? Would you like to use this offer?

Again thanks for feedback, that means a lot for me, do not be afraid to negotiate and write your opinion :)

Edited by Kubon
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42 minutes ago, Kubon said:

How do you find adding an option (name it insurance) to pay let's say 20% more if you want me to resign from rarity fee? Would you like to use this offer?

 

Nope, 0%. Rarity is rarity - rng. I don't want to lose my shield, only beacuse i have to pay "fine" beacuse someone "added" rarity to it.

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Well a rare shield costs 4-5s, supreme shield probably around 15-20s and fantastic items dont sell for lower than 1gold. I dont know why anybody would give these away for free

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40 minutes ago, Kubon said:

 

Thank you for response, that's the problem i knew someone will ask. As you can see I'm new on forum and still learn how people rule their  ingame economy activity. This is my first way of earning so every feedback worth a lot.

 

Back to what you said, please note that turning rare/ supreme is something that happens quite often (for me at least) and it would be unprofitable for me to offer you improvements without any compensation for increasing rarity - I would imp shields for myself and ten sell them if become rare. That's something I don't want to do - my earning would depends mostly on luck and would be verry variable, that's why my offer looks like that. Of course it doesn't mean prices are not negotiable. I'm verry flexible and I want to satisfy your needs. How do you find adding an option (name it insurance) to pay let's say 20% more if you want me to resign from rarity fee? Would you like to use this offer?

Again thanks for feedback, that means a lot for me, do not be afraid to negotiate :)

Well to be honest, last thing i want is to play some smartass who tells you how to run your buisness :) The economy right now is not in so great state right now with supply outweighting demand, so it's not easy to earn by being imper. While shieldsmithing is skill that isn't most common, yet shileds are not that much used on pve either and kingdoms have shieldmakers that imp for their members in pvp. I have a friend that mostly imp for me for free and some other favours, but i feel lazy to bug him can usualy find couple of guys willing to imp to 90ql with flat rate of 1s no matter what starting ql is and no additional fees... It's not common practice among impers in Wurm to feel entilted to compesation if they increase rarity, it happened to me only once and i tipped the guy because i was so happy although he didn't ask me anything for that. So imo seeing as  you're loosing profit if you increase rarity and not charging for it is bad buisness. You can experiment with any buisness model ofcourse outside of that and see how it goes  and i wish you luck in your endevours, i just felt need to point you that your offer seemed very customer unfriendly to me at first glance :) 

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4 minutes ago, Vomusu said:

Well a rare shield costs 4-5s, supreme shield probably around 15-20s and fantastic items dont sell for lower than 1gold. I dont know why anybody would give these away for free

Because they are not his to give away in first place... Impers are paid for service of imping nothing more, they don't own items that were sent to them, if some rng gods mess something else from time to time it's not luck for them but for rightfull owner of item...

I'm sure most people will like to tip for good fortune if they can, but practicly blackmailing customers to get their items back is bad buisness model(the only difference beetween real blackmail and this is that people are atleast warned before sending their items) 

Edited by kochinac
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Well I think the rare roll 'belongs' to the crafter and not to the shield. The guy is using his time to do it, no matter if he imps your shield or his own, the roll would happen anyway. If you order a 90ql 96 coc large metal shield, that's what you should get right? You cant act like the added rarity is nothing because you can then just sell it for a higher price and the money goes to you instead to the guy that made it.

 

I wouldnt say its blackmailing, more like being transparent

Edited by Vomusu
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He spends his time to imp and he is paid for his time to imp, end of story. He didn't spend more time or resources to make it rare/supreme it was pure luck. I have rare shield with 102 coc, dmg rune(but lets say i have moonmetal rune for the sake of complicating) and most important my signature. Now i hold great pride in having my items to be rare or better with my signature and those items have emotional value to me. How on earth is he going to replicate that for merly 8s if he turned it supreme and i don't have and neither want to pay 8s to get my shield back? I didn't order him to make my shield supreme... If you order 80 power enchant and priest fluke and make 100 power he won't charge you for order of 100 power.

 

It's his choice if he wants to imp for others and earn silver by silver, or imp his own and wait for that rare, but he can't have both and run succesfull buisness, sorry.

Edited by kochinac
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36 minutes ago, Votip said:

Nope, 0%. Rarity is rarity - rng. I don't want to lose my shield, only beacuse i have to pay "fine" beacuse someone "added" rarity to it.

 

The second part - that's why I'm considering adding insurance.

The first part - i use my time to let rng work, the luck factor doesn't mean I can't include rng to service price.

Let's say you give me 1s and it will take me 10 minutes to turn it into 2s, it works 100% time so expected value time =1/10 minutes

I claim 10% rake so my EV is 0,1/ 10 minutes

Now let's say you give me 1s  and it still takes me 10 minutes to turn it into 2s but there is 10% chance that i will turn it into 5s ( 90% for 1s) so EV will be 1*0,9 + 0,1*5= 1,4

I claim 10% rake so my EV is 0,14/ 10 minutes

 

First expamle shows how it would work without rarity system

Second example shows how much worth is my job including rarity system. I don't care if you will hit this 10% chance, because in infinity I always earn 14c/10 min. The problem is how should I collect tax. I can make it constant - 14c/10min of my job or make it depending on the result of "roll". But I can do it also dependant so it will be 10c for 1s roll and 0,5s for 5s roll  - for me it's the same but you can find it unfair. And that's why I'm offering you insurances - to reduce variance.

 

 

Edited by Kubon

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Anyway, I dont care about that. Your shop - your rules. But this idea is like a shoot in the knee.

For example, i have 5 shieldimpers to choose. I will choose a imp wihout "fine risk" when my shield become rare, or wihout "fine"?

That may scare a lot of potential customers.

 

Edited by Votip
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13 minutes ago, kochinac said:

He spends his time to imp and he is paid for his time to imp

 


Well in my opinion he's paid to provide a product. If you order a 90ql non-rare shield thats what you should get. I understand the issue about the signatures, runes and sentimental value but there's no good work-around I guess. I just wanted to give my point of viev of that situation.

 

And btw, just because not everybody has that in their thread - that doesnt mean they dont charge for raring items. I've had many uncomfortable situations in the past because of that. I'd rather get a guy that's transparent about it than a guy that says nothing and then 'blackmails' you to get your shield back.

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3 minutes ago, Vomusu said:


Well in my opinion he's paid to provide a product. If you order a 90ql non-rare shield thats what you should get. I understand the issue about the signatures, runes and sentimental value but there's no good work-around I guess. I just wanted to give my point of viev of that situation.

 

And btw, just because not everybody has that in their thread - that doesnt mean they dont charge for raring items. I've had many uncomfortable situations in the past because of that. I'd rather get a guy that's transparent about it than a guy that says nothing and then 'blackmails' you to get your shield back.

But in my opinion when i choose to use imping service i don't order 90ql non-rare shield, i order imping SERVICE on MY shield to 90ql.  Anyway we derailed this thread long enough and i feel guilty for that never the less. Like @Votipsaid, his shop, his rules, i also admit he is transperent so if he can attract customers with that model, i wish him luck. My first comment wasn't out of bad intention, although it sounded a little bit harsh and i feel sorry that i have derailed someones merchant thread this way.

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This is some shady selling tbh, don't imp for people if you're going to do this.

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If people are willing to pay, that's how the economy works.  Let demand drive the market.

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4 minutes ago, kochinac said:

But in my opinion when i choose to use imping service i don't order 90ql non-rare shield, i order imping SERVICE on MY shield to 90ql.  Anyway we derailed this thread long enough and i feel guilty for that never the less. Like @Votipsaid, his shop, his rules, i also admit he is transperent so if he can attract customers with that model, i wish him luck. My first comment wasn't out of bad intention, although it sounded a little bit harsh and i feel sorry that i have derailed someones merchant thread this way.

Thank you for your point of viev actually your posts were helpfull for me and showed that majority doesn't accept big fees. I know that the "additional payment" sound like something bad but look, if i would place price list that is 20% higher would you spot that? I know that from marketing point of view it is better to give than to charge additionaly. I'm sure that it would look better to change list on insurance included stakes and write that you will get 20% discount if you will accept the rarity fee. But i belive you're smart enough to look at figures, not how offer looks. I'm too lazy to remake price list.

 

So thanks to this discussion I'm adding an option of insurance, hope you'll enjoy it :)

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i was to give u my shield for imp but not with this risk crap.... good luck..

 

u cant go in a shop and say, hey folks i have a old ring please plosih it for me.

they figure out oh its a freaking rare ring for 20k US, come we make the same and he gets a worthless brick for 20 USD.

well how u think that person will say ? it dont matter if u did ur job and it went a bit more special u cant change the item just in case for u. u can afford small mount like um 2s or somthing. but not the titel get payd from fantastic. how rude ?

im saying this in good and it is not bad meaning from me.

in Real Life u cant change things that u have a better life so u should take it in the game to.

we pay for the Imp, and when it gets better than we think u cant just say i get more money now, pay or get lost.

one time i get a new car part but it was even better as i ordered and they cant say i want 50 bucks more.

u just get payd for ur work. so stiuped it sounds, thats for me like a thief.

 

there is nothing evil, just my opinion. I wish you much luck.

Edited by AirborneASE

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Well if there are a lot of voices telling me, that charging additional fee is a bad practice I decided to remove it - sorry for making turmoil. So, from now you can place your orders and don't be scared of paying anything more than listed. I'm sure you will feel more comfortable without it ;)

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Got my rare shield imped to 91ql .. very fast service .. +1

 

(pm me if you like some food) 

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I think this is simply a mis-advertised service. 

 

Just offer the improvements at your higher rate (with the insurance or however you’re working it out). Make that your standard price. 

 

Then, if it turns rare+ they get the item as per the norm with this situation. 

 

And you you can ALSO offer a discounted rate for allowing you to keep the shield if it turns rate+ and provide them with an equivalent or better. (IE they send a 90coc shield to be imped to 90ql and it turns rare, you send them a different 90ql shield with minimum 90coc on it. Even if you had to purchase one you’d still be ahead money for selling the rare. )

 

i see no reason that this can’t be offered, and in this way it seems much more reasonable. They can gamble for a discount if they do not have a sentimental value or they can pay full price for the imp just in case. 

 

You aren’t the first seller I’ve seen do things this way. I’m also not sure why everyone is so angry about it. It’s an offer. It’s one I’d choose to never take since I like my items to stay mine lol.. but who cares if someone else accepts his offer?

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I'll start by saying that I absolutely support your right to set your pricing however you like, and I applaud you in being open and up-front about it.  As an additional data point, though, I would never utilise an imping service that charged a top-up fee for turning my item rare.  If you're making an agreed item for me from scratch (e.g. I order a 90ql shield), then fine, but if you're imping my item, I expect to get it back for the agreed price; if it happens to go rare, well lucky me - at the point where I've bought your time for the imp, I also expect that price to include any rare rolls that happen in that time.  Most impers don't charge an extra cost for (potential) rare rolls while imping other peoples' items, but you would be absolutely within your rights to do so; I suspect that many people who might otherwise have used your service would not if you do, though.

 

Either way, best of luck!

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As an imper myself (who never charges anything or even expects any tips if the RNG is in favour of the item) I'm sure turning an item rare for a customer DOES have a real profit for your business. Not an instant one but your customer will remember that you are their favourite smith (even if they forget during the coming months that it was because you turned the item rare).

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18 hours ago, Xor said:

I think this is simply a mis-advertised service. 

 

Just offer the improvements at your higher rate (with the insurance or however you’re working it out). Make that your standard price. 

 

Then, if it turns rare+ they get the item as per the norm with this situation. 

 

And you you can ALSO offer a discounted rate for allowing you to keep the shield if it turns rate+ and provide them with an equivalent or better. (IE they send a 90coc shield to be imped to 90ql and it turns rare, you send them a different 90ql shield with minimum 90coc on it. Even if you had to purchase one you’d still be ahead money for selling the rare. )

 

i see no reason that this can’t be offered, and in this way it seems much more reasonable. They can gamble for a discount if they do not have a sentimental value or they can pay full price for the imp just in case. 

 

You aren’t the first seller I’ve seen do things this way. I’m also not sure why everyone is so angry about it. It’s an offer. It’s one I’d choose to never take since I like my items to stay mine lol.. but who cares if someone else accepts his offer?

 

That's exactly what I was thinking when creating this offer, but as you can see the idea of an additional payment or lowered price (It's actually the same, just reworking the price list) didn't met expectations of customers. This is the reason why i removed insurance option and fees - i put them in imp costs. For now there is only one way of payment in main post but as i said before it doesn't mean you can't negotiate payment rules. That's how buisness and market works in my opinion - or at least should.

 

9 hours ago, Wonka said:

I'll start by saying that I absolutely support your right to set your pricing however you like, and I applaud you in being open and up-front about it.  As an additional data point, though, I would never utilise an imping service that charged a top-up fee for turning my item rare.  If you're making an agreed item for me from scratch (e.g. I order a 90ql shield), then fine, but if you're imping my item, I expect to get it back for the agreed price; if it happens to go rare, well lucky me - at the point where I've bought your time for the imp, I also expect that price to include any rare rolls that happen in that time.  Most impers don't charge an extra cost for (potential) rare rolls while imping other peoples' items, but you would be absolutely within your rights to do so; I suspect that many people who might otherwise have used your service would not if you do, though.

 

Either way, best of luck!

 

Thank you for your support, that means a lot for me. Being opened is something i find the most important find when running a buisness. The only thing that i can't agree is that most impers don't charge extra cost for rolls. Let me explain it again, if 90ql shield would be worth 1c and able to imp in 3 minutes, but rare 50s and average time to do it would be 30 minutes I would be making rare shields for people just for 10c when following your way of thinking. Don't you find it illogical? I know that the figures are completly different but it shows that every price include something more then only time and resources to create (or imp in this example). When you buy cheeseburger the price include workers insurances, advertisements, logistics costs  of transport, renting a local and a lot of other stuff. I'm sure that ingredients + maker's salary is not more than 20% of it's price.

 

8 hours ago, Jaz said:

As an imper myself (who never charges anything or even expects any tips if the RNG is in favour of the item) I'm sure turning an item rare for a customer DOES have a real profit for your business. Not an instant one but your customer will remember that you are their favourite smith (even if they forget during the coming months that it was because you turned the item rare).

 

100% agreed

Edited by Kubon

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I realised after pressing send that I'm unnecessarily derailing this.  The guy has been open about what he's offering and his charges, so let's leave it there.  Happy to continue the discussion via PM, but I think we've pretty much covered it.

 

Original post in spoiler below for transparency.

Spoiler

 

Perhaps I explained myself badly - my experience of having my stuff imped has been that if it miraculously goes rare while doing so, the imper didn't charge any extra, just returned the (now rare) item at the agreed quality for the pre-agreed price.  Of course, your experience may be different - I can't say I've actually been in this situation often enough to offer a meaningful sample.  I don't do much imping for money these days (we mostly look after each other in our alliance), but if I turned someone else's item rare, I wouldn't expect extra payment, and I don't build a value into my prices just in case it happens - you pay for the imp, and if it goes rare, that's a free bonus.

 

While it's tempting to treat wurm work like real life stuff, the reality is that they're not the same, unless wurm is your full-time job.  And at that point, there are probably much more profitable ways you could be spending your time, and you're competing with people who do the same stuff for fun.

 

 

 

Edited by Wonka

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