Are we no longer reimbursed for deaths caused by the way server handles lag?

[Omar 479]

There are two very prominent bug-related deaths that occur when building deeds. The first is cave wall suffocation, and the other is dropping dead randomly while digging. Both of these only happen when the player has high latency, or packet loss, even for a split second.

 

Many people have been reimbursed for both events, minus champions, but now WO is no longer responsible for these events? How should players go about handling a situation with monetary losses, and in some cases, very large time loss due to losing .25 at very high skill?

 

I'd like staff to clarify please, particularly why my ticket was denied.

 

Edited October 25, 2015 by Omar

[Propheteer 7,139]

Seems a little ######, I know personally ive been reimbursed for this five times in the past, and i know a good number of people that have been reimbursed for this same incident in the past three/four months.

 

The best part about this in particular is that the GM who denied your request is the GM who reimbursed many of the people that also died to this bug, lol....

Edited October 25, 2015 by Propheteer

[CubeManV2 231]

i died to this before, was reimbursed

[FranktheTank 1,901]

But if someone kills their own horse we make a huge change the next day.

[Holar 1,486]

This has happened a lot lately and needs to be looked into. Until there is a solution for this issue the player(s) should be reimbursed for any skill loss. Just my opinion

[Mclovin 2,591]

You chose to go cheap with the shitty server hosts - forums won't even stay online for more than a day - We're not responsible for lagg/bugs either and since the loss is on our end you could wave a magic wand and repair the damage done at no cost to you or your company since you're not prepared to fix the problems on Your end.

 

Edited October 25, 2015 by Mclovin

[Reevi 23]

I've died to this before and got reimbursed, as have many other people, why should Omar not get reimbursed?

[Naio 675]

+1 for reimbursment.  absolute crap.  we already need to warn people to do silly things like not stand on tile corners when making a tunnel, or to not climb near a stone wall at the bottom of the tile, because these things can lead to instant death.  

 

when deaths like this happen they should 100% be taken care of by GM's

[Egard 3,369]

completely stupid the staff team would change the policy considering its been reimbursed before. 

[Olloch 1,318]

Plus one

[NeoRuger 65]

This is almost as bad as the "We cant do anything about packet loss as it's t he host's problem"

[Enki 6,940]

Wow what short memories some people have.

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/122590-digging-bugbugs-that-instakill-you-whos-fault-is-it/page-2?p=1260181#entry1260181

 

It's pretty simple and at the same time it's not simple at all.

 

Like Zerocool says we're a small team still focusing on developing the game. After ten years you could argue that we should focus more on existing bugs but we do that all the time. Kill bugs are scary things and we go to lengths in order to avoid them. There is code in place for avoiding digging deaths but apparently it still happens. They may become less common with the changes coming with bridges but if not we'll have to investigate further.

 

We can't have a policy that says we reimburse for client or server lag or connectivity issues. Both the server, the client and the network will lag out at times. It has to be expected even though we constantly improve both server and client performance. We could end up in a reimbursement loop we'd never get out of and most probably people who exploit such a system would be the real winners. If we have reimbursed a situation due to lag it was more or less a mistake or an extreme situation. I am not aware of the specifics of the case but it really is against standard reimbursement policy.

 

Due to our extreme development situation with few developers trying to solve a large number of issues while still developing the game in order to reach our overall goal of a full fledged fantasy sandbox mmo/virtual world problems have always been expected. We solve bugs as we go and often while developing new features we revisit old code and bugs get sorted in the process. This is why we have a very restrictive EULA. You're not supposed to spend more money on the game than you accept to lose for any reason. We go to lengths to avoid losses and over the almost ten years we've been in business I think we've proven that we protect and respect your accounts in Wurm pretty good though.

 

What constitutes fair reimbursements can be argued ad nauseum. No situations are the same and it can take days to figure out what really happened which would steal time from other development that benefits everyone. It has to be decided on a case to case basis and every case is aired. If there is suspicion of favoritism involved it is investigated and heads may roll.

 

Movement is usually controlled by the client like in almost every game on the market. We do extensive verification server side - I dare say a lot more than the large majority of multiplayer games out there if not even the most because we verify every step you take. This is true even for sailing where it is a bit exploitable if you create client side lag and quickly sail forward. We will look into doing something about that even though there is still risk that you run into problems you can't react to if you do. Moving on land is less sensitive because you usually can't see where you will end up and the risks should outweigh the benefits.

 

Basically we try to be extremely fair in that nobody is reimbursed because the alternative is full reimbursements all the time no questions asked due to the immense work load investigating cases would mean. There are situations we feel is our fault, limited and pretty obvious (which does not include server side lag) and a player has lost a lot or a group of players are affected. Then we may decide to reimburse in case it doesn't affect development too much. Time is often spent better fixing those bugs if that makes sense or how should it work do you think?

 

And gee, would you look at who read and liked Rolf's post...

[CubeManV2 231]

Wow what short memories some people have.

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/122590-digging-bugbugs-that-instakill-you-whos-fault-is-it/page-2?p=1260181#entry1260181

 

 

And gee, would you look at who read and liked Rolf's post...

 

except instead of fixing the bugs the dev team spent 5 months making a stand alone game

[Omar 479]

Wow what short memories some people have.

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/122590-digging-bugbugs-that-instakill-you-whos-fault-is-it/page-2?p=1260181#entry1260181

 

 

And gee, would you look at who read and liked Rolf's post...

 

"No situations are the same and it can take days to figure out what really happened which would steal time from other development that benefits everyone."

 

 

But there is not much ambiguity in the "digging lag death". And not exploitable.

Seems like a clear case of bias to me.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Omar

[Propheteer 7,139]

Seems a bit odd to put a stance change in the middle of a large thread at the very bottom of a post, i also feel like there have been people who have been reimbursed since that post, ill do some digging.

[topkos 504]

except instead of fixing the bugs the dev team spent 5 months making a stand alone game

[Reevi 23]

Seems a bit odd to put a stance change in the middle of a large thread at the very bottom of a post, i also feel like there have been people who have been reimbursed since that post, ill do some digging.

[Bittereinder 265]

Well for 3 years he was working on making epic cluster, which from the business point of view is a complete and total flop instead of fixing bugs..so..whats new?

 

A new server, a new cluster, a new game.

 

Same ######, different day.

 

What's next? A new platform? Playstation, Xbox, handheld?

Edited October 25, 2015 by Bittereinder

[Dairuka 888]

The irony is lost on the people in this thread. I love it.

[Propheteer 7,139]

The irony is lost on the people in this thread. I love it.

im sure you do, until youve been put in the same situation, and then i can imagine you would be just as annoyed, especially if you watch other people get reimbursed.

[TradingAlt 946]

Wow what short memories some people have.

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/122590-digging-bugbugs-that-instakill-you-whos-fault-is-it/page-2?p=1260181#entry1260181

 

 

And gee, would you look at who read and liked Rolf's post...

 

 

It's pretty simple and at the same time it's not simple at all.

 

Like Zerocool says we're a small team still focusing on developing the game. After ten years you could argue that we should focus more on existing bugs but we do that all the time. Kill bugs are scary things and we go to lengths in order to avoid them. There is code in place for avoiding digging deaths but apparently it still happens. They may become less common with the changes coming with bridges but if not we'll have to investigate further.

 

We can't have a policy that says we reimburse for client or server lag or connectivity issues. Both the server, the client and the network will lag out at times. It has to be expected even though we constantly improve both server and client performance. We could end up in a reimbursement loop we'd never get out of and most probably people who exploit such a system would be the real winners. If we have reimbursed a situation due to lag it was more or less a mistake or an extreme situation. I am not aware of the specifics of the case but it really is against standard reimbursement policy.

 

Due to our extreme development situation with few developers trying to solve a large number of issues while still developing the game in order to reach our overall goal of a full fledged fantasy sandbox mmo/virtual world problems have always been expected. We solve bugs as we go and often while developing new features we revisit old code and bugs get sorted in the process. This is why we have a very restrictive EULA. You're not supposed to spend more money on the game than you accept to lose for any reason. We go to lengths to avoid losses and over the almost ten years we've been in business I think we've proven that we protect and respect your accounts in Wurm pretty good though.

 

What constitutes fair reimbursements can be argued ad nauseum. No situations are the same and it can take days to figure out what really happened which would steal time from other development that benefits everyone. It has to be decided on a case to case basis and every case is aired. If there is suspicion of favoritism involved it is investigated and heads may roll.

 

Movement is usually controlled by the client like in almost every game on the market. We do extensive verification server side - I dare say a lot more than the large majority of multiplayer games out there if not even the most because we verify every step you take. This is true even for sailing where it is a bit exploitable if you create client side lag and quickly sail forward. We will look into doing something about that even though there is still risk that you run into problems you can't react to if you do. Moving on land is less sensitive because you usually can't see where you will end up and the risks should outweigh the benefits.

 

Basically we try to be extremely fair in that nobody is reimbursed because the alternative is full reimbursements all the time no questions asked due to the immense work load investigating cases would mean. There are situations we feel is our fault, limited and pretty obvious (which does not include server side lag) and a player has lost a lot or a group of players are affected. Then we may decide to reimburse in case it doesn't affect development too much. Time is often spent better fixing those bugs if that makes sense or how should it work do you think?

they are so caught up on time they can't even fix king titles/king armour/boats inventory access/boat models/ permissions

 

cmon enki please don't troll us, people are just trying to make suggestions to make the game better

 

the people who play this game several hours out of the week consistently are just asking for a little love to make the gameplay experience better. Its not like they are asking for you to give them stuff they didn't have in the first place.

 

Like... do you want the whole population to play on wurm unlimited custom servers where people can make their own king armour and fix their king titles and not have to worry about not getting a reimbursement cause they played on a poorly hosted server where the staff doesn't give a damn about player satisfaction?

[KunAlt 844]

wow wow, I and a lot of other people I know got killed wen trowed from the cart on huge lag spikes, and we never got reimbursed for the skill lost even wen I remember linking screenshots with the "Auch that hurt!" bug and the loss of skills and characteristics, and now you say there was people that got reimbursed not only once but several times for similar situations?

 

I feel like a 2nd class costumer now

[Omar 479]

I feel like a 2nd class costumer now

Edited October 25, 2015 by Omar

[Dairuka 888]

im sure you do, until youve been put in the same situation, and then i can imagine you would be just as annoyed, especially if you watch other people get reimbursed.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Dairuka

[Ecrir 887]

+1 for reimbursment.  absolute crap.  we already need to warn people to do silly things like not stand on tile corners when making a tunnel, or to not climb near a stone wall at the bottom of the tile, because these things can lead to instant death.  

 

when deaths like this happen they should 100% be taken care of by GM's