I Hereby Revoke A Future Deed Purchase...

[yarnevk 257]

Due to the recent rule revocation of deed perimeter expansion over an existing writ, AKA the "Deed It or Lose it' policy, I hereby revoke my plans to purchase an alternate deed valued at 32s5c price and 4s85c upkeep (12NS, 28EW, free perimeter and 2 guards).

My alts purchase funds are held in the village bank of my existing deed. Since I already planned to play this game for months ahead it will be used for game time and materials that I would have purchased anyways, so this is the loss of future coin purchases since that coin should last for some time without the deed expense.

I had desired an L-shaped expansion which I thought only possible with allied alt deeds of bordering perimeters, and had already traded shed writs amongst alts to prepare for purchase. Having recently learned that off deed 'Gate House Fence Enclosure' are no longer in danger of being overtaken by neighbors perimeter I need only extend my existing deeds fence into the desired area and put the alt to work building/repairing these structures. It is my understanding such structures can be built up to neighboring perimeter lines but not in their perimeter.

Other than my own shacks/fences in progress, no structures currently exist other than old rock mines, and no highways are contiguous thru the desired area. I recognize this will take longer to build than simply purchasing the land, but it is the principle that matters.

I take this revocation of deed purchase stance since my existing deed was formed under the now revoked policy of expanding perimeter over a decaying house and broken fence to stake a claim on the inactive property. Such action is now deemed exploit of a game bug, and I very much disagree as 'deed it or lose it' to me is the nature of a game that people come and go. (Although I disbanded and redeeded after the house fell, this was due to a corner expansion survey bug unrelated to writs and there is no option to just move the token )

Anyone else taking this stance, please state the http://wurmtools.com/calculators/deed cost that you are now revoking. Please use existing threads for debate of this policy change, but lets have an accounting of others that have changed purchase plans as a result.

(yarnevk is my forum name not my alt names)

Edited November 13, 2012 by yarnevk

[Cartrip 132]

If you want to put the work in to keep it all maintained, and don't want free lamp lights and reduced decay, and don't want non-circumventable game mechanics protection, seems like an even trade off in labour and lack of peace of mind. You will have to keep a close eye on that and don't take extended absences. Do you realize that players are on their honour to not break into enclosures? And if that happens, GMs can only punish the offender, not replace your stuff or reverse everything a griefer may do? Although with very high QL fences a basher may give up. If it's worth it to you, with these things in mind, best wishes.

[Ayes 3,715]

Yarnevk, good to see your post here pointing out how this new *can't put perimiter over existing houses* has this side effect of making it unnecessary to place new deeds to tie up land that would otherwise have been done with a deed and thus contribute more income to Rolf for the further developement of the game and his personal use. More tales like this to come, I would suspect.

=Ayes=

[headhunter 100]

I can already see the possibilities for griefing. four 1x1 houses on each side of someones deed and you've pretty much locked down their deed size and possible expansion options and if you were to expand over them to stop them being repaired it now counts as griefing? Looks like paying customers:0 free players:1

[demondan 1,865]

Not one care was given. Proud of the perimeter change.

[Asciana 303]

I can already see the possibilities for griefing. four 1x1 houses on each side of someones deed and you've pretty much locked down their deed size and possible expansion options and if you were to expand over them to stop them being repaired it now counts as griefing? Looks like paying customers:0 free players:1

Actually only 2 1*1s. One N-E and one S-W. Which is even worse

[yarnevk 257]

Only takes one corner shack to block neighbor deed expansion as a North hut blocks South expansion, a West hut blocks East expansion, thus a NorthWest hut blocks South/East expansion. the existing house deed covers the opposing corner if blocking intrusion it requires a fence enclosure.

Single tile shack is all it takes to block expansion, a triple L tile is not necessary because there is a bug that you cannot slide past a corner it blocks both dimensions by applying EW bounds to NS survey checks. Yes It takes more huts and fence to block griefer intrusion than deed intrusion, and yes I rely on GM to do their job if someone breaks the Freedom Isle rules. Since resources respawn and fences can be rebuilt, any loss is temporary setback, we are not talking about intrusion into the house getting looted of tools I spend months grinding up but the renewable resources only is what this deed would have protected. Only if the GM fails to take action and someone breaks in and depletes an ore vein working it for a month do I suffer a real loss . Yes I lose some time rebuilding but Wurm is about losing time.

My post is not about not buying a primary deed, as I already have all the benefits of the house deed and my conclusion was an alt is much better off being a villager than an allied deed due to the lack of fine tune access controls, and villagers cannot own alt deeds.

This is about expansion of the deed for pastures, orchards, vineyards, mines, forest or simply view which used to be bought with perimeter or alt deeds. It comes down to cost of the deed vs. cost of the enclosure. Before the change I would have bought the deed for fear someone would stake a claim displacing me, since it now only takes an enclosure to stake a claim I see deed as an luxury expense. I build the mine shacks anyways so I have a window view while I smelt my ores, and pasture fence is needed anyways to keep tame ones in and wild ones out and that only requires changing a fence gate to a gate house. All of that is at risk to the game itself anyways as the recent patch letting champaign livestock free proves or the rash of collapsing mine doors, the game can be worse than a griefer.

All no deed means is I make the rounds checking for decay, something high QL stone can easily minimize. The stone walls around the house that just fell are all at 10%, only one fence break when I arrived though while I was there a gate also fell so I think they just missed some spots on upkeep.. Only the road fence was half gone, and pasture was all gone so I think those never got upkeep and they just kept up the house fence until they decided to disband. I think I can handle turning the lights on/off as I go deeper into the mine, a mere convenience not worth the upkeep price as medieval times did not have electricity they managed and so shall I. A fence also keeps out most mobs so the guard is not needed, and I can always guide the mob over to the house guard.

You could not give a care but this change has financial impact on both sides if the fence, if others think the same way that there is no longer incentive for f2p to upgrade to p2p and buy a deed since they are protected by the enclosure rule, nor is there incentive for p2p deed owners to expand since the enclosure rule also protects them as does corner huts. I was a f2p squatter before I upgraded to p2p for fear of getting evicted from my hard work, but I did not cry for this change instead I followed deed it or lose it and moved elsewhere and bought a deed - I would not have done that with the new rule.

Deed no longer is a necessity to deed it or lose it, instead it is a game mechanic convenience. I doubt I am the only one that will decide not to buy a deed which means dev income is reduced to only premium monthly and trader purchases. I cannot speak for others but this deed for me was a fairly significant investment for mere virtual estate, 3x a usual deed and increase my monthly costs by 50%. This game is not a charity much as I like it, I am not going to give them money if I do not see the benefit to me.

Edited November 13, 2012 by yarnevk

[Darkmalice 242]

Damage/decay needs to be sped up for abandoned or non-deed buildings if we can't stick perim over old ones anymore.

Frankly, 9/10 times you'll be fine doing it anyway, if you've kept an eye on the place and it is in fact abandoned; no-one to report you.

I agree with Yarn though; why should you be able to claim land without paying for it? That's essentially what is being touted these days. It might be fine if we were getting a new server every 6 months or so. It isn't uncommon for people to fence or wall off large areas without purchasing perim or deed tiles for it (and I'm saying this as someone who has done exactly that).

[yarnevk 257]

And the new change revoking deed it or lose means indeed more people taking advantage of the free enclosure rule, because it is a simple trade-off of hard work vs. silver coin. I do not agree with the rule change, but it would be senseless not to take advantage of it and still buy a deed rather than starting building fences. The fence enclosure rule makes the intent of the perimeter rule to be passable buffer pointless, as you are only required to do that if the two-lane sanded highway already exists. In my case the highway from the south stops and it is natural coastline within my desired area, with the northern neighbor having a boat drydock and a 1-lane cobble detour around it.

So rather than people fencing off their deed perimeter because they are allowed to, they will now fence the wild because they are allowed to.

I would prefer my area to be open space, but I will use the methods the game allows me to protect what I consider my area in a manner that benefits my playstyle, and that is I like to do hardwork and am willing to pay a monthl premium, but I hate games that fund themselves using microtransactions for game improvements in a pay to win model. So I resisted buying an extra deed and another alt montly premium, but I had no choice if I wanted to protect the area, so now that I do not have to deed I will use my preferred method of hard work.

Edited November 13, 2012 by yarnevk

[Judicator 539]

Quick change the game so we get this guy back.

[thenewcndo 528]

1 person not buying a deed will not make a game change.

[Sarcaticous 338]

I hearby revoke...

nothing. Just think it's neat saying that.

I hearby revoke

[conmcb25 378]

I can already see the possibilities for griefing. four 1x1 houses on each side of someones deed and you've pretty much locked down their deed size and possible expansion options and if you were to expand over them to stop them being repaired it now counts as griefing? Looks like paying customers:0 free players:1

I got a plan to do this tonight, since this apparent griefing is now legal within the rules. And I want be doing it to grief the deed, no indeed. I'll be doing it to "protect a peice of land".

[yarnevk 257]

Quick change the game so we get this guy back.

Where did I say I was rage quitting? I am just reallocating the $50 bucks of silver (whatever the exchange rate was for that 30s) It does not mean I stop playing the game but I don't need to buy future time and materials because that deed coin will last me a while as I generally prefer not to buy materials.

So if nobody else thinks like me the devs will not miss that extra $50. But considering I got the idea that I don't need the deed from the forum, I doubt the impact is only my coins in this revoking of the deed it or lose it policy. f2p don't need to deed their squatting anymore, and p2p don't need to deed their expansions anymore, Regardless of being for/against the change, it is hard to argue with less deed coin being the end result. So one would presume the company made the change since 1.0 should bring lots of potential free players that go premium to offset the decrease in deed/expansion purchases. Maybe the company cannot afford a new server world to accomodate them, so get your fence enclosures in before they get here.

Edited November 13, 2012 by yarnevk

[Bachus 462]

I revoke my plan for a hunting deed on Deli.

I planned to re-premium my Deli alt and make a hunting lodge deed but now I will just build a 50ql stone enclosure that will last a year with little or no maintenance and park the F2P alt there to do repairs if necessary.

That is another 30 silver wich will not go into the game.

I too belive that more premium players will take advantage of this new rule than f2p because with the ability to build stone houses they will need much less time than ftp to maintain them.

[Ayes 3,715]

Yarnevk spelled it all out on how this change of no deed perimiter allowed being placed over existing houses will be taken advantage of by various players, both f2p and p2p. Now my concern is that there may be a backlash reaction to this situation where Rolf & Co will decide to *dramatically* increase decay on all off deed tile structures (houses, fencing, ect) in order to "encourage" players to once again purchase deeds for decay protection. Just think, if all decay off deed were increased 10 times (hey why not even more), players would not be so quick to build all these off deed blocking buildings and enclosures. I mentioned in another post that decay might be increased in some manner for this purpose, which would be a *foolish* idea as it would hurt those players who this new perimiter mechanic was *supposed to* protect and yet afterwards I have even noted a few players mentioning it as a "good" idea. If decay off deed is stepped up in reaction to players building houses and enclosures in many areas, I will be sure to say *I told you so*. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out to create even more chaos than it was supposed to resolve.

=Ayes=

[dipse 231]

I revoke my plan for a hunting deed on Deli.

I planned to re-premium my Deli alt and make a hunting lodge deed but now I will just build a 50ql stone enclosure that will last a year with little or no maintenance and park the F2P alt there to do repairs if necessary.

That is another 30 silver wich will not go into the game.

I too belive that more premium players will take advantage of this new rule than f2p because with the ability to build stone houses they will need much less time than ftp to maintain them.

This is how it was before the deed system was changed and fine IMO to have safe off deed structures. There never was a problem with people not buying deeds even when they were a lot more expensive and houses blocked them. I think some people are trying to blow the effect of this change out of proportion for what ever reason. As for the fp2 vs p2p argument the rast majority of off deed buildings I see are in fact stone so obviously not made by f2p players.

[conmcb25 378]

This is how it was before the deed system was changed and fine IMO to have safe off deed structures. There never was a problem with people not buying deeds even when they were a lot more expensive and houses blocked them. I think some people are trying to blow the effect of this change out of proportion for what ever reason. As for the fp2 vs p2p argument the rast majority of off deed buildings I see are in fact stone so obviously not made by f2p players.

The effect of the change is I no longer need to worry about someone placing a perimeter over a structure I build. I can now go anywhere off deed and build a 1x1 with an enclosure, and no one can do a dam thing about it.

And I have seen a 40 ish quality brick house last a year off deed. Thats the real problem. A lot of land is going to be tied up in undeeded areas.

[yarnevk 257]

I doubt increased decay would happen since the revocation of deed it or lose it was taken to protect the 'rights' of f2p players, of which they expect an influx of with 1.0, and they do not want to do anything that worsens the already high noob turnover.

[yarnevk 257]

I revoke my plan for a hunting deed on Deli.

I planned to re-premium my Deli alt and make a hunting lodge deed but now I will just build a 50ql stone enclosure that will last a year with little or no maintenance and park the F2P alt there to do repairs if necessary.

That is another 30 silver wich will not go into the game.

I too belive that more premium players will take advantage of this new rule than f2p because with the ability to build stone houses they will need much less time than ftp to maintain them.

As long as you are enclosing some spawn you should have good hunting all to yourself! i do not know how to find the spawns, in my area it is spiders the area is pinewood mountains, in my former area it was bears in pinewood bluffs. All the same meat once it is cooked, though I may throwup after the new spider textures arrive and I have to butcher it. And if you suck at hunting, you do not need deed guards to help you out since you can have off-deed tower guards. I map the middle mouse button to say help whenever I am in a known tower guard radius.

Edited November 13, 2012 by yarnevk

[yarnevk 257]

The effect of the change is I no longer need to worry about someone placing a perimeter over a structure I build. I can now go anywhere off deed and build a 1x1 with an enclosure, and no one can do a dam thing about it.

And I have seen a 40 ish quality brick house last a year off deed. Thats the real problem. A lot of land is going to be tied up in undeeded areas.

Want to claim a wild mine for yourself? Shack the entrance and fence any mine door gaps. You need high skill unless low slope, some high slope is impossible to fence, but also impossible to climb so you only risk suicide cliff diver intrusion so just curve around the low part of the cave entrance then loop back around in front of your shack to the other side. Forgo the mine door but reinforce the cave walls as you mine to prevent intrusion from side tunnels. Google surviverman's blog that is what he did,,,,his house was a cave and a fence, the fence he built when he realized EU 'looters' had been in 'his' cave....

No deed required, no premium account required, keeps critters out excepting if it is a cave spawn. Why share this off-deed property with your neighbors when it costs you nothing but skill to claim?. Instead of 'Deed it or Lose It' we now have 'Fence It and Keep It' as policy.

Edited November 13, 2012 by yarnevk

[conmcb25 378]

I doubt increased decay would happen since the revocation of deed it or lose it was taken to protect the 'rights' of f2p players, of which they expect an influx of with 1.0, and they do not want to do anything that worsens the already high noob turnover.

Discussing a decay increase is basically a moot point. There are easy tricks to solving the decay problem off deed.

[Birdwatcher 25]

Ok I will write about this, Usually stay away from these things but I am trying to do more as of late the issue I see with this is that the Decay is way to slow if this is going to stay then I feel the ratio for decay needs to change due to I can see 1x1s all over the place if you look at my live feed that is how I keep my farms safe but I am active say I move and I dont pull my writs since my carpentry is over 65 I can imp those buildings up to that or my masonary is over 70 those walls you can see on the feed can all get to 70 and then the house at 70 and then I have like over 1k tiles just for me.

That is kinda my issue with this decay should change now really so there are not tons of land taken but non active poeple.

[Alyeska 2,621]

Want to claim a wild mine for yourself? Shack the entrance and fence any mine door gaps. You need high skill unless low slope, some high slope is impossible to fence,

No; for a mine entrance, you can fence off any slope regardless of skill.

So I can go around, fncing and dooring every newbies mine with a 1x1 and some fences, and theyre lost. No one can help them. not even someone with a deed, and my 80 ql stone house will stand there nicely for a year. Also those neigbours I dont like? Ill just make a 1x1 on the NE corner of their perimeter, to make sure they will never, ever be able to expand their deed again. if I find a nice area that could possibly be used by new players, near the starter area - same story. Clay pit? Tar pit? All the same. And the best part is that my griefing is completely legal and free!

Edited November 13, 2012 by Alyeska

[Birdwatcher 25]

Wow Alyeska I agree with you compleatly that is my point to this, I can actually see that happening since some of us have very highskills those 1x1s are going to last the time of wurm and this can happen nothing to stop it really.