A non-binding Freedom server non-premiums poll

[Tich 1,389]

Non prems allways had a cap of 20 on skills, and i'd be fine with them not being able to hold deeds. (join them yes, have the deed paper in inventory  no. if you hold a deed and your prem runs out, you have to buy from the shop before you can log in)

Agreed except about buying from shop, so maybe a limited time ingame (after prem runs out) before you have to buy (so you can buy ingame)

A few small AoC tweaks for chopping, digging and mining that ONLY apply to non-prems would help settle a lot of the griefing worries.

This was talked about last night, but not just for non-prems

Keep the PA system, and especially the PA chat. have it on by default, but have the client remember if you turn it off so it doesnt come up every time you log in. This way only the players that want to help have to listen to the new players, everyone else can still hang out in kchat.

Yes, if non-prems are aloud, it would be nice to have a 'help' channel.

I'm already seeing my neighbors talk about walling up roads and their villages to keep out non-premium players. Is this the response we want to see on Freedom? How unsightly would this be? I can see it now: "Premium-Only Road"

The idea that Freedom would have to "prepare" for the arrival of non-premium players should send a clear message.

lol - "prepare" for what?

[Guest rogan]

i wish how more people knew about the times how jk home and wild where still non prem and how much fun it was

I was there. It wasn't that great. The closer you got to Newtown the more it resembled this

[spellcast 983]

If you believe the wiki, GV is 1/4th the size of Freedom, not 1/16th. Please don't insult Freedom players by suggesting we're not familiar with the current state of our own server. I've been around Freedom since it was 30 days old (and wurm many months before that), and even if I'm new to Wurm by your standards, I'm extremely familiar with my own server.

GV is 1km x 1km, or 1km ² .  freedom is 4km x 4km  or 16km²  thats 16x the size.

Please offer me a compelling reason to believe that Freedom will not become what GV is now in one year's time.

because with the exception of about 75 tiles around newtown it didnt happen over TWO years on JK-H, not even close.

edit: the larger area means that the adventurous ones get farther from the start, and the premium aspect means that they are more likely to encounter people to take them in and offer help/advice. the 1x1 starter shaks become less prevalant near established communities cause usually someone goes out and plans them a 2x3 or something similar, and shows them how to terraform properly  etc. Its not wishful thinking, its what happened in the past. (before GV)

[wipeout 1,355]

I'm already seeing my neighbors talk about walling up roads and their villages to keep out non-premium players. Is this the response we want to see on Freedom? How unsightly would this be? I can see it now: "Premium-Only Road"

The idea that Freedom would have to "prepare" for the arrival of non-premium players should send a clear message.

thats actually quite funny its as if new players are a disease that they dont want to have >.> ow i wish how more people knew about the times how jk home and wild where still non prem and how much fun it was

I'm already seeing my neighbors talk about walling up roads and their villages to keep out non-premium players. Is this the response we want to see on Freedom? How unsightly would this be?

The idea that Freedom would have to "prepare" for the arrival of non-premium players should send a clear message.

your neighbors are paranoid and crazy then. I dont plan to wall anything up if they are permitted to come to freedom. The only preparations i need to make is a single fence along one side of one road to keep the poor noobs from falling to thier deaths. I suppose i might also build some housing for new villagers as well.

You mean to tell me that taking the environment you find on GV and injecting it into Freedom is something you want? There's barely an ounce of unmolested land on GV.

It is not crazy or paranoid to know this will come to Freedom if non-premium players come. It is not a question of whether or not Freedom will become a pock-marked GV 2.0, but how long it will take to convert it..

your seeing it wrong to gv is 1/16th of a map of freedom gv has been having new people come and leave for a few months now everything is changed on jk home almost every new person would be living 20-30 min from new town as it was the trading capital besides spawn point and it worked fine nt was the biggest town and it had its own style

i miss nt and if the samling area starts to look that way again id love it plus it wont be that bad as most new players will get the help they need to learn things and what not

whats up with all the new prem people thinking freedom is doomed when new players come on it >.>

If you believe the wiki, GV is 1/4th the size of Freedom, not 1/16th (unless the size indicated is distance across and not distance squared, in which case I stand corrected). Please don't insult Freedom players by suggesting we're not familiar with the current state of our own server. I've been around Freedom since it was 30 days old (and wurm many months before that), and even if I'm new to Wurm by your standards, I'm extremely familiar with my own server.

Please offer me a compelling reason to believe that Freedom will not become what GV is now in one year's time.

um lets say this where you here when jk was free to play before mr home? cuzz if you where you would have known how good it was

and rogan you never liked new players to start with to be fair i saw that in the way u acted when i was part of your village but no offence on that

and actualy it was great so much more trade way more people exploring and it dint look like that it looked more like a medieval village around a castle and the castle being nt and the village around it being the area around nt

loads of randomly stacked together houses and it was a nice view to see how it all turned out to be

and mind me asking why are so many people treating non prems as a disease?

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

at as i decay:

the only reason i would suggest not allowing non-prem alts to hold a deed paper is the AoC settings. they would make it that much easier to claim large tracts of land if the deed holder didnt have to be prem.

I understood why the suggestion was made, and I suppose you are right.

Tich brings up a good point about those that were prem but have gone unpremium, and giving them access to buying time in-game, and that makes it a whole sticky situation. Rolf's going to have to code it so that non-prems can't purchase deeds, nor accept them in a trade, but yet allow for them to physically hold them.

[spellcast 983]

Tich brings up a good point about those that were prem but have gone unpremium, and giving them access to buying time in-game, and that makes it a whole sticky situation. Rolf's going to have to code it so that non-prems can't purchase deeds, nor accept them in a trade, but yet allow for them to physically hold them.

how about we just add some functionality to the webshop (it allready knows how much silver you have) to allow you to trade silver in your bank for prem time at the same rate as ingame?

[wipeout 1,355]

spell that would be good

and as i decay i bought e deed on tigar on gv when u still could and i had it when ppl werent able to get any more deeds and i wasnt able to trade it so it is there already if u had a deed when u where prem u keep it yet u cant trade it to non prems

[Guest Blippy]

The ability to be a non-prem surrounded by premiums is what convinced me to go premium in the first place. Golden Valley is unbearable for me, and I think the reason why is because: 1: It's incredibly small, so the damage on the server isn't spread out to the point to where it is negligable, and 2: There aren't premium players around to not just let them see what premium is capable of, but also physically show them. Being able to use tools above 20ql was one of the selling points for me going premium.

Also, I believe that the addition to non-premium players to Freedom can stimulate the economy. Despite what you may think, newbies can earn coin, and can spend it. When I was new on JK-H, over the time, I had accumulated a total of about 1s. Granted it isn't much, but that's 1s more that can be used for trade goods and gear.

Anyway, +1 for allowing non-prems on Freedom, with some restrictions of course.

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

Tich brings up a good point about those that were prem but have gone unpremium, and giving them access to buying time in-game, and that makes it a whole sticky situation. Rolf's going to have to code it so that non-prems can't purchase deeds, nor accept them in a trade, but yet allow for them to physically hold them.

how about we just add some functionality to the webshop (it allready knows how much silver you have) to allow you to trade silver in your bank for prem time at the same rate as ingame?

Because, honestly, if I go into the hospital tomorrow and will be there for the next few months, I don't want to have Rolf direct deposit from my account to pay premium. I'll have a family member or villager feed the token.

Edit: I read your suggestion wrong, sorry Spell. I think that'd be a great idea.

[Arson 19]

If the experience in GV will be mirrored on Freedom I don't see how this will compel people to subscribe to the game. The issue is not one of player population, or land, it's about the initial experience received as a newbie that all begins with a very poor introduction. Why not focus on improving this before deeming it necessary to expose the paying population to players that don't have a vested interest in the land that surrounds them?

Also, stop trying to make the opposition here sound like xenophobes. The issue is not with new players, who are welcome, the issue is with the potential for griefing that will increase exponentially.

If it must be Freedom, then I request the option to move to a fresh server. This is not what I signed up and PAID for.

[Kingzan 0]

I voted no. I don't like the idea of forcing paying players to live with free players, no matter how long they've played. Give them another place to go where there will be no freebies, like what was done with JKH and MRH, but with Freedom Servers.

There's no way I'd support this unless I have a way out that doesn't result in me going to Wild.

[Abomin 4]

live in Freedom voted  "yes'

[kingjared 0]

It was a hard decicion but i voted yes.

[PoolsClosed 37]

Or you could not change anything with GV and Freedom and allow new non-premium and premium players on an Epic server in some kind of capped role where if someone is going to come and raid it fits with the gameplay model of the server.

[Ecrir 887]

Or you could not change anything with GV and Freedom and allow new non-premium and premium players on an Epic server in some kind of capped role where if someone is going to come and raid it fits with the gameplay model of the server.

allow massive amounts of free spy alts on epic? I think that's going to fail, horribly (same reason why they shouldn't be allowed on wild)

[Arson 19]

Or you could not change anything with GV and Freedom and allow new non-premium and premium players on an Epic server in some kind of capped role where if someone is going to come and raid it fits with the gameplay model of the server.

allow massive amounts of free spy alts on epic? I think that's going to fail, horribly (same reason why they shouldn't be allowed on wild)

All premium servers should suffer equally. Players shouldn't have to go to a PvP server to escape the non-premium influx. This is one of the reasons why Freedom was created. Feels pretty crappy to be lured with the promise of vast swathes of land that will now have the internet let loose upon it.

[Ecrir 887]

Or you could not change anything with GV and Freedom and allow new non-premium and premium players on an Epic server in some kind of capped role where if someone is going to come and raid it fits with the gameplay model of the server.

allow massive amounts of free spy alts on epic? I think that's going to fail, horribly (same reason why they shouldn't be allowed on wild)

All premium servers should suffer equally. Players shouldn't have to go to a PvP server to escape the non-premium influx. This is one of the reasons why Freedom was created. Feels pretty crappy to be lured with the promise of vast swathes of land that will now have the internet let loose upon it.

Freedom wasn't created to be premium only, as far as I remember it was just made that way because JKH had become premium only with the addition of pvp there (a premium only feature). Wild has PvP, which is a premium only feature and that isn't the only reason it shouldn't have non-prems. At first it had non-prems but they were removed around 1-2 years ago due to everybody and their cat using free spy alts to spy on their enemies at no risk, it completely ruined the server. Note that is the premium players who do that, not new players to wurm so they aren't to blame.

I was always hoping non-prems would return to freedom, it just hasn't been the same without them

[Wulfgar 1,139]

This was talked about last night, but not just for non-prems

Who talked about this last night?

It sounds like Rolf already made up his mind before the poll has finished, even though 40% of Freedom players is against it, and most of those who voted yes is wanting some restrictions that might never be made.

[Guest Shyel]

Another vote for yes.

Another JK-H vet.

The elitism in this thread appals me.

The paranoia has me in disbelief.

If GV is made into a new prem/non-prem server rather than allowing non-prems on Freedom, I vote Freedom be renamed Insanity.

[hulkmccracken 17]

I voted no at the start, but after reading all the posts I have changed this to a yes. I am a free player (for now) and enjoy GV and have only been playing for just under 6months so far.

I have just got to 15 meditating and have various other skills at 20. I enjoy the grindfest that is wurm as you are rewarded for hard work, and the social aspect of village life and even most other GV residents is great. I believe to make this work a balanced approach between the needs of prem and the wants of the free players needs to be agreed with the majority.

• It seems the previous JKH server settings are reasonable.
  
• I also think the limit of 1 free account per IP is a must (and should please the prem players)
  
• I think the only way non-prem to move to Freedom is via a passenger on a boat that a prem captains, that way the contact has to be made in game (create a new freedom_move channel in chat etc) from prem to free or vice versa.
  
• 1 of 3 conditions must be met from the free player (time played, basic skills to 20 (carp, mine, wood cut etc) or a robust tutorial (build a boat and a large cart etc) to please the various free players)
  

On the whole this is definitely a positive step forward for Wurm, but one thing I did notice before and during my time on Wurm is the lack of visibility of Wurm.

I only came across it as it was advertised in PCGamer magazine (I part of the GV PCGamer Village), and even now I don’t see anything regarding Wurm on the web (can’t find anything in Twitter and 1 page of 126 users and 1 group of 140 users in Facebook). Wordpress has a few links (both from ppl in the PCGamer Village’s personal blogs inc myself).

More marketing is definitely required.

[Mystecore 0]

It's still Beta, therefore Rolf probably doesn't want it advertised in an unfinished state. Though I'm sure some free press to swell the old pockets with new subscriptions isn't unwelcome.

[MetalDragon 1,630]

Would be nice of you (Rolf) made a new topic with any changes to your mind, etc, before you make any decision (i notice the poll is only running until thursday).

[Guest ironizedphoenix]

There is a lot of paranoia on this thread.  As premium members, we have the skills to teach and repair any damage that is done.  However there should be some time for us to prepare for the new arrivals.  I would need some time to fence off the top of my mine so people can't fall in and maybe build some beds and houses.  We should be welcoming people and encouraging them to join, not throwing them into a hellhole of a server with no supervision, then using that as the reason why we shouldn't let them in.

[drago 6]

small problem. but if you let non prems on freedom, and then they want to go to wild...hows that gonna work?

they'd need to prem up, and then pay and additional 10s ,which they wouldnt normally have to do on GV, and then use a portal.

[Aeris 3,764]

I voted yes, I've been waiting for this.

I don't agree with the people who claim that the newbies will mess the server up so it'll look like GV. - The reason GV looks like a butthole is because they had to figure everything out by themselves with noone around to tell them how to do things. JKH was a non-prem prem mixture and it didn't look like GV. Sure, the NT area was littered, but we have AoC around Samling now that'll prevent people from being too convenient and build right where they land.

Edit: Lol to all the "enlargen GV instead" posts. You can't fill a hole by making it deeper, it'll only contain more people and be harder to get up from. If we make GV larger it'll hold a bigger playerbase. Bigger playerbase = less reason to leave the server.