OOC vs IC

[Haverstrom 22]

I'm making this post to explain an important concept to role playing, which applies to all games from Alien Invaders, to Pong, to real life sports like tennis, to Wurm Online.  Yes, Wurm Online IS a role play game believe it or not. I know amongst certain groups in the Wurm community there for some reason is a stigma against role players, so this fact can seem almost ironic. Think of it like this: when you are playing the game, you are role playing as someone who lives in the game world, even if you are talking to other players like it is still a game. In this case, your ingame actions are your "IC", or "In Character", and your communication to other players is your OOC, or "Out Of Character." The idea I'm trying to make is about good sportsmanship, and about being mature enough to understand the difference between the two personalities of gamers and apply it to how you treat other players both in the game, over the forums, and through all other methods of communication.

 

Even though this is a game, its important to remain a kind person. I know that people have different opinions on how they should treat other people, but it is my hope that John Locke's theory that people are inherently good is true. A player that understands this concept should role play ICley, and can be a rude ######, a nice person, or whatever else they want to role play as at that moment. At the same time, OOCley they should remain kind to other players, perhaps even complimenting them on their play-style, or jesting with them jokingly on how they failed. Players who extend their IC harassment to OOC either do not understand this concept, or they don't care. Either way, these people are a problem to any gaming community, because they tend to create OOC fights that can tear a community apart, and ruin people's fun.

 

So decide for yourself, how will you treat other people OOCley.

 

Note that this thread is not directed at any individual, its just made because I felt it would be a good thing to discuss with this community. If you find someone in the community who you think could benefit from a lesson on this concept, please link to them this thread. No matter how nice humans can inherently be, there are always going to be those that don't understand this complicated concept about gaming.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Haverstrom

[FranktheTank 1,901]

Wurm to me does not encourage RP in any sense, because you will just get rolled over by those who do not.

[Zekezor 3,188]

How about.... No.

[Lotus1 315]

The thing is, a thread like this is unlikely to change anyone's perspective on it. If they're not playing nice in game, they know it already. You can tell them to play nice all you want but 99% of the time they're not going to listen. They have a monitor in front of them and, a lot of the time, feel invincible when they don't have to worry about their actions in game affecting their real life.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Lotus1

[Haverstrom 22]

The thing is, a thread like this is unlikely to change anyone's perspective on it. If they're not playing nice in game, they know it already. You can tell them to play nice all you want but 99% of the time they're not going to listen. They have a monitor in front of them and, a lot of the time, feel invincible when they don't have to worry about their actions in game affecting their real life.

 

Perhaps there are those for whom this fact is true. But I don't think this makes educating others on this fact a bad idea. Like I said, humans are inherently good.

[Edge 141]

Damn I actually agree.

[CainDarren 18]

Wurm to me does not encourage RP in any sense, because you will just get rolled over by those who do not.

[Archaed 2,284]

I love how you talk about respecting OOC and IC, but your signature is red huge and bolded with a hashtag, maybe my IC likes nahjo and doesnt want weirdos raving about some strange god called rolf "fixing" my god

[Macadelic 199]

No. Just no. RP/IC/OOC is just weird. There should be no difference in how you treat people both IC and OOC. If there is a difference, we call that bipolar.

[Edge 141]

No. Just no. RP/IC/OOC is just weird. There should be no difference in how you treat people both IC and OOC. If there is a difference, we call that bipolar.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Edge

[Macadelic 199]

So you think I should go to jail for killing someone in pvp?

Edited August 4, 2015 by Macadelic

[Edge 141]

No, but I would consider it a bit weird if your IC personality was different than your OOC personality (in regards to player communication as stated in the OP). Tbh, that sounds like too much to even keep up with.

[Macadelic 199]

A player that understands this concept should role play ICley, and can be a rude ######, a nice person, or whatever else they want to role play as at that moment. At the same time, OOCley they should remain kind to other players, perhaps even complimenting them on their play-style, or jesting with them jokingly on how they failed. Players who extend their IC harassment to OOC either do not understand this concept, or they don't care. 

Edited August 4, 2015 by Macadelic

[Edge 141]

That's what it sounded like to me. You can be as rude as you want to be IC as long as you remain kind OOC. I see what you are getting at though. I do agree that IC actions and OOC communications are two different measures that can be separated. The wording in the OP was just misleading I guess.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Edge

[Malena 2,854]

Haverstrom as a casual roleplayer myself, I support your ideals and I admire your attempt to explain this difference to Wurm players. As for whether Wurm is a RPG is in the eye of the beholder me thinks.

 

Personally I treat it as such and when logging on with Malena I am most definitely seeing the world of Wurm through her eyes. However I equally understand that most Wurm players will never see Wurm as more than a charming form of entertainment and see their characters as "puppets" or "tools" with which to perform actions to attain a certain goal. And since the game does not enforce or really even encourage roleplaying as such, they should feel absolutely free to do so.

 

However, I would also hope that these players (meaning the majority of Wurmians) will respect and accept the roleplayers upon meeting them. I've not yet had any problems myself, but then again I've also stayed flexible with my IC behavior, so while I try to be IC by default, if I meet someone who clearly has no idea what the heck I'm on about, I'm not going to push my roleplaying upon them just to "show them the way it's done" or "stay true to myself". I guess I'm a bit too empathetic for that and don't want to cause people discomfort. *shy smile* However for the most part I've been glad to see folks catch on quickly and even seem to enjoy the interaction. I hope they've been left with a pleasant feeling as well and perhaps even inspired to try a little themselves. That's how it started for me back in the day. 

 

 

No. Just no. RP/IC/OOC is just weird. There should be no difference in how you treat people both IC and OOC. If there is a difference, we call that bipolar.

 

Macadelic hehe. Well it's like acting really. You enjoy a good film and appreciate great actors and don't call them bipolar, right? Same thing here.

 

 

After i realised this, it was a main reason to crash my grand plan of RP based community in Wurm.  

 

 

CainDarren: I've been secretly fantasizing about creating a walled city with locked doors as a haven for roleplayers as I think Wurm gives excellent tools and possibilities to create a thriving RP community, but it's something I'll have to do some day when I have more time on my hands. I think having a walled off area would be the way to go really to ensure a smooth experience. I bet it could be magical!

Edited August 4, 2015 by Malena

[Slickshot 1,195]

Dammit, now I want to go through the long grueling fakery of playing and acting IC.  My village is setup with different ranks in hierarchy, so it would be the perfect place to pull it off, however I think it can be difficult to pull in the appropriate contenders and audience to make role playing feel genuine and fun in this game.

[Malena 2,854]

Dammit, now I want to go through the long grueling fakery of playing and acting IC.  My village is setup with different ranks in hierarchy, so it would be the perfect place to pull it off, however I think it can be difficult to pull in the appropriate contenders and audience to make role playing feel genuine and fun in this game.

 

Your post makes me wonder just how many are out there who would actually kinda like to give it a go, but feel discouraged from everything they hear about how roleplayers are treated in Wurm. What a shame. Perhaps we should all get together and create a commune .

[Slickshot 1,195]

Your post makes me wonder just how many are out there who would actually kinda like to give it a go, but feel discouraged from everything they hear about how roleplayers are treated in Wurm. What a shame. Perhaps we should all get together and create a commune .

Oh the treatment doesn't scare me. Honestly I'm one of the first people who'd tell other taunters to piss off. Lol

The only thing that bothers me is the scope. I'm quite busy lately irl, and I know that putting up the roleplaying charade would exhaust me and cause me stress, even if it was a lot of fun. Trying to pull it off with an entire village feels like a lot of hard work, planning and convincing that I'm not ready to do given my current plate of life events.

[Malena 2,854]

Oh the treatment doesn't scare me. Honestly I'm one of the first people who'd tell other taunters to piss off. Lol

The only thing that bothers me is the scope. I'm quite busy lately irl, and I know that putting up the roleplaying charade would exhaust me and cause me stress, even if it was a lot of fun. Trying to pull it off with an entire village feels like a lot of hard work, planning and convincing that I'm not ready to do given my current plate of life events.

Yep I hear ya!

[Klaa 4,872]

Eh actual IC and OOC roleplay tends to work when enforced and rewarded. Speaking from experience on various MUDS.

Then there's getting into the usage of OOC information, which is much more difficult to police.

[Griffith 362]

i kind of admire roleplayers.

 

with that said, i cant roleplay. its alien to me. im the worst actor

youll ever meet.

 

in a couple of occasions they made commercials in a place i used to

work at, and i was never included in them because my parts

were so bad lol.

 

i guess it has to do with imagination which ironically im also the biggest

daydreamer, but also has to do with putting on a mask and be someone

youre not, and thats where i short circuit.

 

hypocrite - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com

The word hypocrite is rooted in the Greek word hypokrites, which means

“stage actor, pretender, dissembler.†So think of a hypocrite as a person who

pretends to be a certain way, but really acts and believes the total opposite

now please dont get me wrong, im not saying roleplayers are hypocrites in the english sense of the word.

What im trying to say is that it takes a special talent to do it, (look at hollywood, bollywood etc.)

and i suspect that im not in the minority with that lack of talent.

 

so if you want to roleplay, go for it, ill listen to you and enjoy the show, but understand that

im handicaped in that sense and if i dont roleplay back, its not because i have something

against it.

[Stanlee 3,455]

I wonder if using the local playerlist would count as meta information.

Oh god, and how loud are we all shouting that people on -other islands- can hear us?

 

But really, OP, that's a novel way of looking at behaviour in online videogames, but I'd really really recommend looking at existing research before trying to wedge RP-terms into it. I think enclothed cognition might be of particular interest to you, were you to think of wurm avatars as clothes that people wear (after all, it is in a sense a visual representation of us - as our usernames are in chat).

[Alden 209]

Role-playing can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

 

Some like to create a 'character' and then behave in the game as that character would.

Personally I prefer to play the game in a more natural manner and adapt my 'character' to suit the way I prefer to play, as I find the other methods to be both crippling and filled with Mary Sue's.

 

A player that understands this concept should role play ICley, and can be a rude ######, a nice person, or whatever else they want to role play as at that moment. At the same time, OOCley they should remain kind to other players, perhaps even complimenting them on their play-style, or jesting with them jokingly on how they failed. Players who extend their IC harassment to OOC either do not understand this concept, or they don't care. Either way, these people are a problem to any gaming community, because they tend to create OOC fights that can tear a community apart, and ruin people's fun.

 

While I agree mostly with what you've said, I do have a problem with this part I have quoted.

 

Much like role-play in the bedroom, ingame role-playing should be a consensual affair.

Too often I've had role-playing forced on me when it really isn't wanted.

 

Sometimes its rather inconsequential, like the one time in WoW when a level 8 human warrior on a PvE Roleplay server jumped out at me from behind a tree, role-playing as a bandit, and demanded some silver coins from me or I would be "killed".

I ignored him as there was literally nothing he could do to actually harm me, and told him he needed to be more creative to get cash out of me.

He then whinged and whined about me not following the spirit of role-playing loudly in public chat and got others to harass me and telling me I was on the wrong server.

 

Other times it's more serious, like the time a joined a Garry's Mod Role-play server.

I was trying to play as a street side watermelon seller, generally interacting with anyone who passed by, and earning cash to eventually buy an apartment.

Unfortunately another player, with the support of the server admins I might add, decided I was the perfect person to act out their ###### fantasies on.

I told them to cut that out because it's just way too creepy, and was literally threatened with being banned by the admin if I didn't take part and play the victim, with graphic descriptions through chat of everything this other player wanted to do to me.
Of course I chose the ban and have never ventured back to the hellhole that is publicly accessible Garry's Mod servers.

 

In conclusion:

While their certainly is stigma against role-players, we cannot demand respect from others if we aren't willing to be respectful first.

"I'm role-playing an a**hole!" is not a valid excuse for actually treating others like an a**hole.

[Raybarg 442]

Yea its quite curious thing how peoples behavior change based on what clothes they wear.

 

Similar way what kind of character people choose to play sort of dictates the outcome of their choices ingame.

 

The spectrum that is roleplaying has allways been confusing to me. I have experience in playing with very hardcore roleplayers to very light roleplaying.

 

So far there seems to be the trend that roleplaying elements do exist trough set of rules, were they commonly agreed or just evolved to how people treat one another, but correlation "how hardcore" roleplaying is seems to be based on how well structured and agreed the rules are. Which means that the environment of completely restricting OOC behaviors and full IC doctrine with rules in place everyone agree on without contempt, can lead to very pleasant experiences among the participants. Such I would declare as being the "far end of roleplaying". 

 

What I currently play in with, seems to be the "far end of role-based non-roleplaying" with people who all have their character based "personality" they play trough, which may or may not fully reflect their out of game personality. Everyone chosen a role they go by, like "the smith" or so... and quite well stick to it... we have no agreed rules, but all seem following some set of rules that naturally formed as bonds between the many of us.

 

When it comes to my experiences in Pen&Paper roleplaying, I've played many different personalities... among many rulesets, the ones adopting this Nature&Demeanor construct or the Lawful-Good vs Neutral-Chaotic systems. It is interesting to explore the choices behind someone meaning true evil with all their actions, as much as it is to explore the opposite. Ofcourse its highly biased by the way I am in real life but thats not the point of roleplaying. If its fun, thats the point.

 

Also its pile of horse excrement to say that roleplayers would be inferior. That only applies if they are inferior. Only then. If they are not inferior, they can still be roleplayers, very hardcore ones too. Just because some players choose to type deep-thought poem every time their IC mind goes "Crap!" does not mean all roleplayers must follow similar scribe-like horror of a doctrine. One can also simply type "Crap!" if thats how their character speaks up their mind. This also does not mean its "commonly agreed" legitimate IC way of speaking to type "CNA I HAZ R4FFLE LOL", but then again, if that would be within the "commonly agreed" doctrine of roleplaying group... then it is legitimate, just not very common among different groups.

 

And yeah, back in the good old days of UO before Trammel/Felucca madness, I did invite bunch of hardcore PvP/Playerkiller bunch to roleplay. They were dressing pink robes and acted like giggly bunch of girls, for the "lolz". They had alot of fun, as much as everyone else did too. It just happened that day that another PK group hit the roleplaying village, wanting bloodthirsty frenzy of easy roleplayer blood... just turned out there was such a bloodshed that all PvP'rs talked about the epic RP vs PK fight for weeks. It was just weird how ppl tried to "make sense" of the giggly girly group suddenly pull their sharpies and go killing spree. But theres charlies angels too, so yeah. How about such story for confusion for anyone who cant grasp the concept of roleplaying? If everyone in the end (no matter how much loudmouth profanities was flinged over by both parties) had either a blast or fun, or just ended up having a story to tell, then it sounds like they were doing it right.

[Parsiuk 38]

 

I've been secretly fantasizing about creating a walled city with locked doors as a haven for roleplayers as I think Wurm gives excellent tools and possibilities to create a thriving RP community (...)