Posted October 21, 2014 There is three thinks that bother me.1.If F2P player get many of coins and their account gets deleted after money is going to vanish out of the economy system.2.Also given to fact on how easy it is to obtain money I seams pretty easy to use f2p alts with macros to run around an collect money from foraging. 3.People reported to have obtained enormous amounts of money in a relative short period of time, draining kingdom treasures way too fast. Possible solutions would be:Make it Premium only(Solves 1 and 2)Only accounts with 20 body and 24hours playtime be able to do so(Solves 1 and 2)Limit the amount you can collect per hour(1s) (Solves 2 and 3)Reduce the chance of getting the coins by half.(Solves 3)Limit the amount of money that this action can drain from the kingdom coffers.(Solves 3) Let me know how you feel about this, if you agree with me "like" it. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 no, let the newbies able to get coins instead being brick slave >.< as much I love brick slaves it is not proper way for those who can't/don't want to pay premium when they hasn't hooked on the game. 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 no, let the newbies able to get coins instead being brick slave >.< as much I love brick slaves it is not proper way for those who can't/don't want to pay premium when they hasn't hooked on the game. don't mix up newbies and F2P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 I'd rather see only a limit total per hour/day, but not to restrict it to premium only players. I haven't seen any indication that these "f2p alt armies foraging for coins" are actually real. There is always money that falls out of circulation whether it is coins left on an abandoned F2P account (which seems counter to the suggestion people are running botted macros on alt-armies just to gather these coins) or on a premium player account who simply stops playing for months-years. I would guess much less total coinage on the F2P than on the unplayed premiums. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 don't mix up newbies and F2P restrictions toward f2p most time restrict the newbies, like it or not. I rather we got cap like the sell feature cap. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 It depens how much money the F2P accounts have. I think that 6s prevents account from deleting but i cant 100% confirm that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) 2.Also given to fact on how easy it is to obtain money I seams pretty easy to use f2p alts with macros to run around an collect money from foraging. And its easy for GMs to track macros and then ban f2p alts and then main account. 3.People reported to have obtained enormous amounts of money in a relative short period of time, draining kingdom treasures way too fast. "im so lucky" I have earned 1c from rare coin drops... It depens how much money the F2P accounts have. I think that 6s prevents account from deleting but i cant 100% confirm that Im sure that you need to buy premium account(for a month) to "secure" your account from deleting. Edited October 21, 2014 by Tracerr Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 And its easy for GMs to track macros and then ban f2p alts and then main account. jeah sure *sarcasm* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) I have said it across many threads now but there needs to be two pools to this new coin system one for free to play accounts and one for premium players. Then make sure that the f2p is restricted enough to stop any alts from exploiting the system and open up the premium side more to make it less of a chore to get your "share". All of these would have daily caps on the rare coin drops and sell feature ofc. Edited October 21, 2014 by Kegan 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 jeah sure *sarcasm* im not 100% sure, but my friend got banned for using macros, and he lost his main + alts. Dunno how, but GM's catched him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 How is foraging effectively macroable at a large scale? I fail to see that. And it's not even a given that doing so will yield ANYTHING. The new system is the least exploitable of all redistribution systems, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 If the characters get deleted, the money should be thrown back into the kingdom's pool Perhaps instead of 20 of a body characteristic, you'd need 20 foraging/botanizing to find coins? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 If the characters get deleted, the money should be thrown back into the kingdom's pool Perhaps instead of 20 of a body characteristic, you'd need 20 foraging/botanizing to find coins? 20.1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 How is foraging effectively macroable at a large scale? I fail to see that. And it's not even a given that doing so will yield ANYTHING. The new system is the least exploitable of all redistribution systems, IMO. it is against the forums rules to discuss how, but It would be no big deal. There are many ways you can exploit the game mechanics, but when it comes to getting money we should take all possible cautions to prevent any exploits. Would rather see some restrictions on this actually great feature than seeing my hard earned money lose value. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 Restrictions which affect/punish new players should be avoided as this new rare coin system can greatly help make the game more accessible for new players. To undo that would be counterproductive for player retention. As for the points brought up in the original post, I agree that the first issue of inactives with money on them takes money out of the system. Still most of this stuck money is on inactive premium accounts, which will never be deleted, and this has been the case for years. So solutions like prem only, skills/stats at 20, certain amount of time played, etc, are quite overkill and have some seriously negative side-effects to how they affect new players. The best option there is probably to put the money owned by a character into recirculation when said character is deleted. As for point 2, I'll leave dealing with bots and macro's to the devs. If you believe that foraging and botanizing are easy to macro then crafting most certainly is too, it's probably even easier as you don't need to move around, evade aggressive creatures (bye bye coins), etc. With exception of the limit per hour, the suggested fixes punish new players more than the actual macro users. Playtime just means you need to keep your characters logged in while you are asleep, a skill or stat needing to be at 20 just requires a little bit of grinding, and a prem requirement locks out new players altogether. So the ones that don't lock out new players entirely wouldn't even stop macros... As for point 3, that's confirmation bias. You remember the people who reported a lot of money, but you don't remember the people who only got low/average amounts. So far I've gotten exactly 0 iron, and I did try. That's rng for ya. As for the limit on how much money you can gain. I think it's a good idea, but I wouldn't make it a static limit of X copper per hour/day. That fits better with the token system since you are guaranteed money every time you sell something to it (as long as there is money to give out). Instead I would do it like this: The more money you have found within the last 30 days, the lower your chances are of finding money with the next action/kill. This could (greatly) reduce the chance of getting those lucky streaks you've seen people report. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 There is three thinks that bother me. 1.If F2P player get many of coins and their account gets deleted after money is going to vanish out of the economy system. 2.Also given to fact on how easy it is to obtain money I seams pretty easy to use f2p alts with macros to run around an collect money from foraging. 3.People reported to have obtained enormous amounts of money in a relative short period of time, draining kingdom treasures way too fast. Possible solutions would be: Make it Premium only(Solves 1 and 2) Only accounts with 20 body and 24hours playtime be able to do so(Solves 1 and 2) Limit the amount you can collect per hour(1s) (Solves 2 and 3) Reduce the chance of getting the coins by half.(Solves 3) Limit the amount of money that this action can drain from the kingdom coffers.(Solves 3) about your point number 3,they did when it was first introduced but dont anymore,because there isnt unlimited money, so the first day people got a lot of money but then after that it slowed down a lot. and i would say just remove the sell thingy and let this replace that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 Adding the coins as a premium feature would be another carrot to encourage subscription, like riding horses and commanding large carts. That would limit the coinage that may be lost due to deletion of unused freebies, as well as discouraging the rumoured macroing use of freebies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 i find it very hard to believe that someone made a program to macro botanize and forage that can move around the map avoid buildings,avoid deeds,avoid mobs,avoid slopes,water,etc 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Guys, it was fun in the begining but i value my time to much to waste it for 24h foraging hoping that i'll get few silvers... As a current f2play player( i really intend to invest in this game later when i find a job in real life in couple of months and certanly will not happen if you suck out all tha fun from couple of my f2play months with restrictions) all i need is 1s a month for my upkeep and the rest if i have time, will and opportunity i will earn it and if not nvm, no hurry i'll earn and when i earn it, having fun is on first place here and i need nothing more I don't belive that people will be able to earn huge amounts of money with foraging. The first wave rush was probably because coffers were full and everyone foraged and that should stabilaze by time and rare coins will become realy rare imo so no one will be able to exploit it once the amount of money in coffers lowers again. As for money stuck on deleted players i don't think it's hard to implement return of money to pool before deleting if not implemented already. Bigger problem are inactive premium players... Also I would like to see much less hate towards f2play players as some of us really just wanna play but can't afford right now. Edited October 21, 2014 by kochinac 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 No. I'd rather see the coin redistribution removed entirely than this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 You have to remember that the public traders are still exploitable. Sales to the token are still there. Add the random rare coin drops and it was expected that kingdom funds could be gone sooner. The amount of money removed from the economy each money month by accounts going inactive is small and I don't see it as a major factor. We should not try and limit participation by free to play new players, we are getting so few lately and the coin drops are a fun surprise for them.I do question the amount of silver coin drops , are they needed? Silver or gold rare coins should be extremely rare, like a cap of x silver coins per server per month. As for the use of gold farming alts, they have been draining public traders for years but scripted bots foraging the countryside trying to harvest coins without running into anything I find hard to believe. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 that also hit me, you can't keep forage and botanize in same tiles, many tiles dont even give yield, and in freedom there are so many deeds it gonna hard to macro it. If there is such complex macro in wurm then pretty much every single imping and stuffs should be nerfed cause they are very macroable . I like the new distribution cause it is for all. Maybe people don't feel liking what they invest in the game are used by the free players but look at them as some newbies you adopt. They are so happy finding theirs first copper, put them in bank with your advice.. few weeks or months later, after a lot of actions and helping out people they got enough coins to make a deed or buy enchanted tools they so wanted.. they are now hooked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 that also hit me, you can't keep forage and botanize in same tiles, many tiles dont even give yield, and in freedom there are so many deeds it gonna hard to macro it. If there is such complex macro in wurm then pretty much every single imping and stuffs should be nerfed cause they are very macroable . But imp macro will not give you money directly and you still need to risk skilled accounts in order to actually obtain valuable items. Moving a tile, then use the key-bind and wait for 20 secs, that's really easy. I like the new distribution cause it is for all. Maybe people don't feel liking what they invest in the game are used by the free players but look at them as some newbies you adopt. They are so happy finding theirs first copper, put them in bank with your advice.. few weeks or months later, after a lot of actions and helping out people they got enough coins to make a deed or buy enchanted tools they so wanted.. they are now hooked. I really welcome this change, it is way better then traders or at least a second effective layer of money distribution. Just want to make sure there is no possible way of exploiting this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 There is three thinks that bother me. 1.If F2P player get many of coins and their account gets deleted after money is going to vanish out of the economy system. 2.Also given to fact on how easy it is to obtain money I seams pretty easy to use f2p alts with macros to run around an collect money from foraging. 3.People reported to have obtained enormous amounts of money in a relative short period of time, draining kingdom treasures way too fast. ... I don't see a problem with any of these points. No change needed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) 1. If their accounts get deleted then all that has to be done is throw their money back to the pool. The money in an abandoned once premium character will stay out of circulation until the owner returns.2. If you can make a macro that can prevent the alts from falling off of cliffs, getting into water and drowning, getting murdered by hell hounds, knowing its exact location all the time (what if it dies with coins in inventory?) and also avoiding getting stuck into fences or simply using the same tiles all the time then you should ask Rolf to hire you to fix creature AI instead.3. Tweaking the chance of giving coins can be a solution to this or dynamically moving cash from one pool to another. I also believe that this way of coin redistribution should be getting the most as it is the most difficult to abuse. Edited October 21, 2014 by Anothernoob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
