Posted December 17, 2013 Wanna bet??!??! I know for a fact something would have been stirred up by the community over it just because this is Wurm where Forum Wars play a big part in the Game!! It probably would have been you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) I love how people keep saying this. On epic you are at 99 effective and above once you hit 90 skill. That is the HARDEST part of the grind to 100, the effort the get from 1-99=99-100. Since on epic you have to go from 90-100 in the 99+ zone, the 2x skill gain doesn't matter at all, and it ends up being much more difficult to reach 100. That would seem to make people on epic more "legendary" than those on freedom. You are misusing the data for your own argument, along with misunderstanding it. Double skill gain is double skill gain, REGARDLESS of how you try to twist its effective rate. Shut up already with the whining, it's pathetic. See it like this: if the curve in skill-gain on epic allows epic players to reach 90 skill faster than Freedom players, yet slows down after 90 to make it a miserable crawl from 99-100, then all the system has done is slow down the effective skill gain to 100 to near match the skill-gain Freedom players receive from 90-100. Thus being said, epic players may have just as hard if not harder time from 99 to 100, however, they had a much easier time to 90 than anyone else, making their effective skill-gain timing still ahead of Freedom players. You can debate if this is fair all you want, however Rolf is the person who decided this based upon his own calculations of the skill-gain differences between Freedom and Epic. In the end, if the developers have crunched the numbers and came upon the conclusion that Epic should be omitted this feature, then they did it because the numbers favored Epic players, period. Edited December 17, 2013 by Slickshot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) You are misusing the data for your own argument, along with misunderstanding it. Double skill gain is double skill gain, REGARDLESS of how you try to twist its effective rate. When I made the suggestion that title bonuses should just be always on once you've gotten the skill to avoid pointless micromanaging of titles, someone rightfully countered that reducing the difficulty of imping hinders your skill gain because when skilling you need higher difficulty so it helps to be able to turn the bonus on and off. You've got the same issue with the curve except that it can't be turned off. It might be doubling the gains but with the reduced difficulty it's doubling less than you would have otherwise gotten on freedom and it's particularly noticeable on skills you can't imp something to grind and the only way you can increase difficulty is to reduce tool QL like milling or woodcutting. Shut up already with the whining, it's pathetic. You can always be mature and just ignore the thread if it's bugging you. Debating the merits and showing support for a suggestion is kind of the point of the suggestions forum. Edited December 17, 2013 by Theodis 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 Does it matter? Compare the two, sorcery and legendary titles. I'd much rather have sorcery and spells than a silly title. Let them have some cool title we have our own and much more uses for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 Does it matter? Compare the two, sorcery and legendary titles. I'd much rather have sorcery and spells than a silly title. Let them have some cool title we have our own and much more uses for it. You get karma from missions still, and sorcery was said to be added to Freedom when a way is found. Not sure how it's even relevant anyway, anyone can grind a skill, but not everyone can win and become a sorcerer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) Not to mention the fact that with sleep bonus its 4x, plus what ever other bonuses for Epic skilling which is incredible believe me! Edited December 17, 2013 by Protunia 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 Not to mention the fact that with sleep bonus its 4x, plus what ever other bonuses for Epic skilling which is incredible believe me! I like how you ignored my above post. Even if you're right, you're still talking about incredibly small numbers for both clusters once you're in the 99's. It's at this point where COC and SB can lessen the gap to where it's the same. .000000002 and .000000004 is nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) I like how you ignored my above post. pretty much 2x is 2x yes and all players can use sb and other things like coc etc.. does the fail rate equal 2x less because of effectiveness at 99??? you would have to prove that with data. I don't think it does when you consider that you can imp things higher and still get the fail rate. On things like digging, mining, woodcutting I would say after 90 its all about qlty and timing. And again proving fail rates would have to be documented and shown at say 95 actual skill for each. I am sure they ( devs ) already have a chart that shows it all and is why they decided what they did. Maybe in a year or so when all the Freedom people have had their chance they will open up the titles to Epic. Only time will tell. Edited December 17, 2013 by Protunia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) pretty much 2x is 2x yes and all players can use sb and other things like coc etc.. Ok, so wouldn't you agree then if someone on freedom could afford higher coc and a lot more SB due to its more thriving economy that it would balance out. I'm not saying that's the case everywhere, but it is for some players. Edit: as for your edit because of the effective skill on epic we have to improve items well past ql95 and it fails a lot. I cannot however supply the exact numbers of course. Edited December 17, 2013 by Brunwulf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) Ok, so wouldn't you agree then if someone on freedom could afford higher coc and a lot more SB due to its more thriving economy that it would balance out. I'm not saying that's the case everywhere, but it is for some players. Of course some players on both servers have traders and/or more coin to purchase sleep powder, time, optimal bonuses, etc.... Those players will always get to the higher end skills first regardless of what the skilling rate is. I must go to work now only have 10 mins to get there!!! o/ cya Edited December 17, 2013 by Protunia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 Ok, so wouldn't you agree then if someone on freedom could afford higher coc and a lot more SB due to its more thriving economy that it would balance out. I'm not saying that's the case everywhere, but it is for some players. Edit: as for your edit because of the effective skill on epic we have to improve items well past ql95 and it fails a lot. I cannot however supply the exact numbers of course. Man you are reaching for any explanation you can. lol We've given simple answers already that should solve the arguing: the Dev team decided on this solution the way they did for a reason, because they DO have the numbers and apparently the numbers gave Epic players a much larger advantage. Period, case closed. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 Man you are reaching for any explanation you can. lol We've given simple answers already that should solve the arguing: the Dev team decided on this solution the way they did for a reason, because they DO have the numbers and apparently the numbers gave Epic players a much larger advantage. Period, case closed. Rolf has never been wrong about anything before, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 Man you are reaching for any explanation you can. lol We've given simple answers already that should solve the arguing: the Dev team decided on this solution the way they did for a reason, because they DO have the numbers and apparently the numbers gave Epic players a much larger advantage. Period, case closed. Period, case closed. Shut up already with the whining, it's pathetic. How about if you have nothing of value to add you shut up, period. We all saw your post and don't need you to restate it. Maybe a Dev should come on here and tell us they crunched numbers which I HIGHLY doubt they did. They figure because the Epic is 2x it's easier which isn't the case, PERIOD. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 omg I am sick of Kag and I trying to explain this. Skills gained on epic are based off of effective skill. So let me try to baby step you through this. If you have 50 skill in weapon smithing, the skillgains that you get are that of someone who has 70 weapon smithing. So on freedom you might get .02 lets say at 50 skil from an imp action. On epic you get .005-.01 from an imp action at 50 actual skill(70 effective) These numbers are not real I made them up to get the point across. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 Brunwulf just stop, it's Protunia. Just stop, buddy. Phynx, get him off the computer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 Brunwulf just stop, it's Protunia. Just stop, buddy. Phynx, get him off the computer. I'm done with this whole thread. I forgot who I was dealing with xD I'm going to play Starbound! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) omg I am sick of Kag and I trying to explain this. Skills gained on epic are based off of effective skill. So let me try to baby step you through this. If you have 50 skill in weapon smithing, the skillgains that you get are that of someone who has 70 weapon smithing. So on freedom you might get .02 lets say at 50 skil from an imp action. On epic you get .005-.01 from an imp action at 50 actual skill(70 effective) These numbers are not real I made them up to get the point across. But with that being said, there still is the modifier for increased skill-gain, thus making it faster still. In the same amount of time it took me to get over 80WS in Epic, I could have hardly gotten 40-50 at best on Freedom. Plus, not to mention I could crap out 95QL weapons like it was nothing whereas on Freedom I was lucky to get 50QL at 45 skill. Edited December 17, 2013 by Xallo 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 18, 2013 How about if you have nothing of value to add you shut up, period. We all saw your post and don't need you to restate it. Maybe a Dev should come on here and tell us they crunched numbers which I HIGHLY doubt they did. They figure because the Epic is 2x it's easier which isn't the case, PERIOD. You are a joke at best if you believe the Dev team knows nothing about what they are doing. Do you honestly believe that you know more about the system and the things they create, than they do? Seriously, be honest with yourself and think that out for a moment before rambling off some silly half-defamation about the people who created this game like an arrogant fool. Being hurt over a silly title is ridiculous. We should all be ashamed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 18, 2013 You are a joke at best if you believe the Dev team knows nothing about what they are doing. They may know all the exact algorithms in use but that doesn't mean they've anticipated how those algorithms will operate under every scenario. It's not that they don't know what they're doing it's just that they aren't perfect and that an assumed result may not end up being the actual result. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 18, 2013 who cares if its harder or easier,i dont care if u can get 100 in10 minutes on epic everybody should get those titles. and i dont play on epic and never will 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) Personally its fine for the legendary titles to be on Epic, regardless of the increased skillgain. Sure its more work to get one in the Freedom cluster... For one thing, player titles are unique to each cluster. You dont have Freedom titles on Epic and vise versa, seperate skillsets and titles. If people are worried about their e-peen, Im pretty sure most players will be able to tell the difference between a legendary tailor on Freedom and a legendary tailor on Epic. Edited December 18, 2013 by Klaa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 18, 2013 They may know all the exact algorithms in use but that doesn't mean they've anticipated how those algorithms will operate under every scenario. It's not that they don't know what they're doing it's just that they aren't perfect and that an assumed result may not end up being the actual result. Them not being able to anticipate every outcome for every scenario does not mean that they do not know what they are doing, or that they don't care about their work and their precision. The question wasn't how they handle mechanics, it was IF they handle mechanics and they most certainly do. This being said it is more justified to say that they have plausible reason and know what they are doing in making such decisions, as opposed to them having no idea at all and just pushing buttons. Keep in mind this was all in response to Brun in the first place and his claim of the Dev's being uncaring and pompous. (not the exact words, but certainly the proper context) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 18, 2013 Idk if freedomers understand the curve... We have a curve, a curve ends. The curve is not a endless circle. The 2x skill gain quits with the curve IIRC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 18, 2013 Some ppl have really been hit by a windmill here 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 18, 2013 Some ppl have really been hit by a windmill here Yay for windmill jousting! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
