Chaos Decision

[Kswords 461]

Uhm does that mean that guards/templars will attack ? 

 

Guards and Templars are not Players thus not PvP. Of course they will attack.

[Xallo 2,599]

So from what I've heard, MR left a boat unlocked and a GM forced the JK who took it off, and demanded it be given back?

 

What's to say someone was already headed there before the crash, and would have taken it?

 

Also, I hear reports of enemies headed back and forth to The Damned. How is it fair that people are allowed to freely walk around our lands without incident - lol.

 

Whatever. Personally I don't care, but this is what a rollback could have prevented. There's lot of frustration for all sides, and it's doing no good for PR right now.

[Seara 686]

So from what I've heard, MR left a boat unlocked and a GM forced the JK who took it off, and demanded it be given back?

 

What's to say someone was already headed there before the crash, and would have taken it?

 

Also, I hear reports of enemies headed back and forth to The Damned. How is it fair that people are allowed to freely walk around our lands without incident - lol.

 

Whatever. Personally I don't care, but this is what a rollback could have prevented. There's lot of frustration for all sides, and it's doing no good for PR right now.

 

That was myself. 

 

The intent of the Non-PVP rule is to allow the invaders a chance to vacate the area.  I made a judgement call that occupying the boats was to deliberately hinder that, and so ageist the intent of the 24h cease-fire.

[BlatantDisregard 6]

If vacating was what MR is doing that is one thing, however that does not seem to be the case. If MR are continuing to loot under the pretense of "retreating" I think someone needs to step in. Bashing is NOT what I would consider part of allowing MR to vacate the area.

[emoticondnd 79]

Metaldragon started to bash the door and about the boats the JK alts embarked as passagers so they couldnt go away with it even before the crash. And we are not looting anything so Xallo get ur facts straight from ur ppl before posting.

[Xallo 2,599]

That was myself. 

 

The intent of the Non-PVP rule is to allow the invaders a chance to vacate the area.  I made a judgement call that occupying the boats was to deliberately hinder that, and so ageist the intent of the 24h cease-fire.

 

Excuse me for being blunt -  but you don't need a boat to vacate during a no PvP zone. Especially considering the multitude of horses that have been taken from The Damned, people can simply just get on a horse and leave.

 

People are still sitting at The Damned and the docks deep within JK territory with no signs of leaving. There are reports of MR still looting from The Damned and there's nothing that can be done about it because all efforts to stop has been met with GM interference or PvP-like actions such as destroying wall plans, etc. I thought ALL loot had been warped back to Kratos already? What about horses, horse gear, stuff tossed in mines/carts, etc.

 

The idea of this option was for people to login and leave. Not to stick around hovering within our territory attempting to cause disruption.

 

Honestly, this is pathetic, and it makes me happy I gave up on Chaos because of crap like this. GM intervention, if it happens, needs to be fair for both sides - NOT JUST ONE. You cannot tell me that DEMANDING a player to get off an unlocked boat is fair game. What if that player was already at the boat, just about to hop in, and the server went down? You can't prove that didn't happen because it just might have been so.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Xallo

[Sharkin 1,319]

The situation is controlled by GM's. No one is looting. The reason MR's are still there is because they wait for the last ones to login.

[Xallo 2,599]

Metaldragon started to bash the door and about the boats the JK alts embarked as passagers so they couldnt go away with it even before the crash. And we are not looting anything so Xallo get ur facts straight from ur ppl before posting.

 

A horse was just stolen from someone who rode it to The Damned from Rat Point. A GM paralyzed him, it dropped his horse, and an MR ran off with it before a GM had to pull him back.

 

This is just getting pathetic, lol.

[Oreo 5,793]

I guess its time to get back to rebuilding the dirt wall and the longhouse then eh? i dun think thats pvp

[Issle 793]

[22:35:58] <Enma> That is a different issue, we'll take care of Issle.

 

Apparently JK are trying to get me banned because I accidentally attacked ( but did not kill ) an alt that was standing next to the tower guard. Kudos JK, nice fair play.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Issle

[Oreo 5,793]

But, no pvp?

 

dundundunnnn

 

also, guess I won't need these buckets of tears..

I think MR brought a few bath tubs full

[MetalDragon 1,630]

Metaldragon started to bash the door and about the boats the JK alts embarked as passagers so they couldnt go away with it even before the crash. And we are not looting anything so Xallo get ur facts straight from ur ppl before posting.

 

 

LMAO WHAT

 

Check your logs, Jeez we have players making up things now?! I asked a Mod if I could bash a mine door, I got no response and this is what I did.... I did not bash any mine door, I didn't even start an action. Please do not drag my name into false accusations. So m8 "get ur facts straight from urself b4 u start postin ok m8" Ahaha

[Klaa 4,872]

*munches popcorn*

 

Encore encore!

[solmark 546]

It seems to me that a rollback would have been grossly unfair on MR so this is probably the right call - whatever Rolf/GMs did someone would not be happy, not everything is controllable, its one person word against another.

 

You lost some loot? Get organized and get it back

 

Lets just be glad we are back in business!

[Seara 686]

You cannot tell me that DEMANDING a player to get off an unlocked boat is fair game. What if that player was already at the boat, just about to hop in, and the server went down? You can't prove that didn't happen because it just might have been so.

 

You are correct ... there's no way to tell one way or the other, which is why it needed a judgement call.  And while the no-PvP rule is in place, GM's have to make those calls.

 

I may very well have been wrong, and under normal situations, would have never placed such an order.  But at the time, both side were *not* supposed to be in conflict, even in a passive way - which is why I made the call.

 

Did i harm the JK side ?  I'm not seeing that.  But I'll listen to (reasonable) arguments that I was wrong, and if so, will strive to do better next time.

[Sharkin 1,319]

You are correct ... there's no way to tell one way or the other, which is why it needed a judgement call.  And while the no-PvP rule is in place, GM's have to make those calls.

 

I may very well have been wrong, and under normal situations, would have never placed such an order.  But at the time, both side were *not* supposed to be in conflict, even in a passive way - which is why I made the call.

 

Did i harm the JK side ?  I'm not seeing that.  But I'll listen to (reasonable) arguments that I was wrong, and if so, will strive to do better next time.

 

You made the right call, imo. The only reason they where on that boat was to mess with MR, which is silly when we where all told not to be in conflict and leave the area.

[Xsamuraizx 465]

I have ordered a directive that both sides agreed upon.

 

MRs will stay at their ships in order to pick up the few MR stragglers, and to stay away from the JKs. I will summon the offline MR players to the ships.

 

JKs will stay at their deed and away from the MRs. They are free to repair, build and such.

 

Again no pvp.

[Xallo 2,599]

You are correct ... there's no way to tell one way or the other, which is why it needed a judgement call. And while the no-PvP rule is in place, GM's have to make those calls.

I may very well have been wrong, and under normal situations, would have never placed such an order. But at the time, both side were *not* supposed to be in conflict, even in a passive way - which is why I made the call.

Did i harm the JK side ? I'm not seeing that. But I'll listen to (reasonable) arguments that I was wrong, and if so, will strive to do better next time.

Striving to do better will not fix what has already hurt many players.

 

Several terrible calls were made.

 

First was allowing the boat to be forcefully given back.

 

Second, MR were allowed to roam around TD and pick up any loot already not warped back to Kratos, even though it was said all of it was gone.

 

Third, MR took any horses they could and rode them back to their boats, even untamed ones that weren't officially theirs. They even attempted to steal some obviously not belonging to them before a GM stopped them.

 

Fourth, after all the horses and loot was safely moved back to the boat, a GM decided it would be fair to start warping people from The Damned to the boat. For some reason, this also warped any JK who happened to be overseeing the situation at the dock back to The Damned. I don't believe the latter part was agreed to by any means.

 

I feel there's also many other different reasons for why this went wrong. There was too much trust into players that will obviously only care about what happens to them on a server where one simple mistake could ruin the game. Rolf should have done what he thought was best, and that's it. Don't listen to who can argue the loudest. If he felt that the servers needed rolling back, then so be it. If he felt like he wanted to protect everyone inside, then so be it. Let him make that call, not people in a chat room. It's an important decision for the future of his game, and putting that kind of trust into a group of envious people isn't really the smartest thing to do.

 

 

What I suggest is instead of just winging it next time, the team needs to step back as a whole, with Rolf, and determine what the best course of action would be that doesn't harm anyone. Doing what you think is right is not neccesarily always the best course of action. People have different morales, viewpoints, ideas, and opinions about what is right and what is wrong. This leads to confusion, and ultimately it will harm people.

 

The harm has already been done. You may have not directly harmed people on our side, but by showing that you will unfairly support only one faction in a server that traditionally never sees GM intervention is just wrong.

 

Also about the boat incident -- you ruled that it was unfair that someone could take an unlocked boat, but at the same time you supported any kind of looting that was caused by someone "accidentally" dropping something? Isn't that kind of... hypocritical?

 

 

Anyways - that's my last post on this matter. In my eyes, Wurm is a sandbox game and has no place for PvP. Over the years, mostly PvP related, it has become evident that people can easily pursaude Rolf and his team about what to do when they perhaps think that it probably isn't the right course of action. It's a terrible system that's hard to respect, and it will ultimately lead to biased calls and hurt feelings for more than one person, on more than one side.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Xallo

[Sharkin 1,319]

First was allowing the boat to be forcefully given back.

 

Given back? It was still ours, they occupied two passenger seats.

[fsbkun 23]

Chaos should be chaos

that why a or d was the best solution.

[Issle 793]

Xallo, from all the Jenn Kellons, you are one of the few I would expect to have his information sources confirmed. Sadly you dont. No boats were taken, it was just two alts that embarked on one of our three knarrs. I don't know if you do it on purpose to cause havoc. But whoever was playing on Lake, good one buddy. You let the character bleed to death from that shot I gave you in order to make it look as if I killed you. Smart one ...

Edited November 11, 2013 by Issle

[Seara 686]

"you ruled that it was unfair that someone could take an unlocked boat" 

 

Lets be clear here ... They were not trying to take the boats, they were piling alts in to use up all the passenger spots.  Under normal PvP rules, they would have just been killed.  If they had been unlocked, and just sailed off, I would have taken no action against them.  This was passive combat, as far as I could see at the time.

[Judicator 539]

Lol them sneaky JK always trying. Lucky the GM's are fair.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Judicator

[Xallo 2,599]

"you ruled that it was unfair that someone could take an unlocked boat" 

 

Lets be clear here ... They were not trying to take the boats, they were piling alts in to use up all the passenger spots.  Under normal PvP rules, they would have just been killed.  If they had been unlocked, and just sailed off, I would have taken no action against them.  This was passive combat, as far as I could see at the time.

I apologize for that oversight, and I'm actually appalled that someone from our side would do that.

 

Anyways, minus the first statement I made, I still feel that this whole incident could have been better dealt with less GM intervention, or at least stricter and fairer intervention. All of the paralyzing and disruption could have been dealt with by an immediate warp out of the deed to the dock, or the boat. Allowing people to just run around in circles and disrupt repairwork being done to the deed was detrimental. This is where a group meeting could have solved this from the very beginning.

 

From what you asked originally, I think it's just silly to allow people to run around in enemy territory without penalty.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Xallo

[MetalDragon 1,630]

Should have went with option D IMO.

 

Devs need to just enforce 'deal with it'. We all knew the other servers had been acting up recently and should have expected something to happen (maybe not a ddos, but the same outcome). We all know how the game can bug out at times and crash and we take that risk. No body should have been favoured and no GM should have had to come babysit. This favouring will be expected from everyone when something doesn't go their way again.