Over 81% Agree, Enchanted Grass Needs Fixed. More Than 51% Ask For Permanent Grass. Op Updated With Ideas :)

[Xallo 2,599]

It should stay enchanted, but have varying stages of height. When it's at "The grass looks cut short," animals can't graze on it. When they are higher, they can graze on it, and it will lower one stage of grass per grazing action.

 

Short - No grazing, doesn't pack

Medium - One grazing action

Tall - Two grazing actions

Wild - Three grazing actions

 

Enchanted grass should grow back faster than normal grass, and if you have a good animal ratio, it grows back even faster.

[Lolabelle 597]

You can pack enchanted grass with a shovel.

 

 

 

I would like the grass heights to work for enchanted grass, if its too low no grazing but at least the grass stays. Having to hand-feed your animals is a ridiculous idea, unless you really expect people to be able to login to the game every single day to feed their animals.

I think this is an awesome idea.

[Ratheden 56]

I just want to be able to log out for a week and be able to trust that my few horses are still alive when I log on next time.

Amen

[Protunia 735]

You want your horses to stay alive plant a couple trees......I had some stay alive for 3 months no food no grooming.

 

You do not need enchanted grass.

 

The trees make grass and cannot be packed.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Protunia

[Talilon 57]

So animals graze off of tree tiles?

[Void 75]

If you think I am out of line report me and do not discuss it in the forums please there is a system for such things.  I am not interested in you suggesting I am doing something wrong, in fact I am a little upset you are even suggesting I am attacking anyone which unto itself is a bit of a rule break.     Can not we disagree without you falling back to trying to make me out as an attacker?!  If you can not handle a discussion maybe you should not post, comment or read the forums.......

 

Just because I do not get in line with the "whine till we get our way" version done in a poll does not meant that I do not care.  In fact is is QUITE the other way around and I suspect you know it but it is counter to your grass lives forever goal.  I care so much, about this poll and the other posts being a bad ideas, I feel that I need to throw my 10cents into the COMMUNITY discussion on this because what I am seeing is not what I wish to see.  (it is just like your wish to see grass changed only it is not in line with YOUR want, not an attack just not the same as your goals)  I think it is wrong to badger Rolf or to question his already defined stances OR even to have another poll on something that has already been decided; but those are my feelings on it not law.   I will ALWAYS counter anything that wraps PVP servers into a PVE server's happy-go-lucky no harm should come mindset.  If people like me do not counter post to show there are people who disagree with the whine till we get it mindset....you will always just win because no-one dared say, 'I think your idea is bad, answered and moving toward griefing via reposting".

 

(p.s. I never said I did not care overall, I only stated I do not care what happens on the PVE servers.  Since I am the only one splitting hairs on PVP vs. PVE I find it funny you tried to twist my words into another meaning.  I can see why you would attempt to do so...just going to calk it up to the final gasps of the 'change grass' monster.)

 

So many lines to state that you a jerk.

Worked fine, everyone know now.

goodbye

[Protunia 735]

So animals graze off of tree tiles?

 

 

The trees make sure all tiles are not packed and that grass continues to grow.

 

If you keep   horse in a 3x3 or larger area with a couple trees it will be fed from the grass that grows.

 

I had a larger area like 8x8 with 5-10 trees and 3 horses and they were fine even months later as well.

[Talilon 57]

wow, thanks for the heads up, I'll have to play with that.

 

 

I would much rather use grass though. I have a large pasture almost fully enchanted, and LOVE the green wavy grass with animals spread across it. i tried using regular grass but it was packed almost immediately.

My animal ratio is very good, and  I'd guess close to two tiles per animal in this pasture.

Before the enchanted grass we were using crops which worked better than normal grass, but I hate the way that looks. And i'd rather not raise animals at all then have to keep them in 1x1 pens.

 

I'd be ok with enchanted grass having levels. I don't think one tile of enchanted grass should be able to feed hundreds of animals, but I don't think it should be packed either.

 

I really don't understand the lack of response from the devs on this issue. Clearly the majority of players feel as I do about enchanted grass. I guess they could be ignoring it hoping it will eventually go away but I don't see that happening.

Every time I log in to see I've lost more tiles of enchanted grass the frustration comes back to the surface.  

 

The most in one night(less than 12 hours)  was 4 tiles of enchanted grass. I don't see how any reasonable person could lose 4 days worth of cooldowns in a night and say "enchanted grass is fine as is". It baffles me. 

[Talilon 57]

sick and tired of having to use my cooldown to try to keep up with enchanted grass that's disappearing daily. The clear majority feel that something needs to be done to fix this, why isn't something being done?

My guess is someone on the dev team took on the project of nerfing enchanted grass because they felt it needed changed, and is ignoring the opinion of the player base based of their own preference or bias. Not smart.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Talilon

[Stonesolid 159]

At least Healing Hands and Refresh are there to keep me on the Path. Can't even give away the cooldown for enchanted tiles though. 

 

Not that other paths don't have less useful abilities.

[Emane 158]

It should stay enchanted, but have varying stages of height. When it's at "The grass looks cut short," animals can't graze on it. When they are higher, they can graze on it, and it will lower one stage of grass per grazing action.

 

Short - No grazing, doesn't pack

Medium - One grazing action

Tall - Two grazing actions

Wild - Three grazing actions

 

Enchanted grass should grow back faster than normal grass, and if you have a good animal ratio, it grows back even faster.

 

 

Great suggestion...love it!

[MrGARY 12,421]

sick and tired of having to use my cooldown to try to keep up with enchanted grass that's disappearing daily.

 

Just curious, what sort of pen setup do you have, and how many animals?  I'm in 3 deeds total all my pens with enchanted grass, some are 1x2 pens for hell horses and a few breeders, rest are in big open pens, some flat, some sloped.  I get maybe 1 tile packed per week or two if I'm lucky.  Yes it's frustrating, but it's workable (not saying I like it), and to get it packed daily, something's wrong.  Either pathing is bad and they're clumping up, or the pens are overcrowded.

[Talilon 57]

Just curious, what sort of pen setup do you have, and how many animals?  I'm in 3 deeds total all my pens with enchanted grass, some are 1x2 pens for hell horses and a few breeders, rest are in big open pens, some flat, some sloped.  I get maybe 1 tile packed per week or two if I'm lucky.  Yes it's frustrating, but it's workable (not saying I like it), and to get it packed daily, something's wrong.  Either pathing is bad and they're clumping up, or the pens are overcrowded.

 

it may simply be a matter of volume.  

I have about 120 tiles that I'm trying to keep enchanted. Most of it is in a big pasture type area but the animal to tile ratio is very low. More than 2 tiles for every animal.

The rest is in 1x2 pens with never more than 2 animals per pen except one pen that is setup as a test. This test pen has as many animals as I can pack into it until they get diseased then I move them out so count varies, but never less than 4 animals in it at a time and it has never packed in more than two months since I started testing.

 

I usually have 1 tile pack a day with the most tiles packed in one day(overnight) being 4. Every once in awhile I'll get a stretch of a day or two where no tiles pack which allows me to keep up, but never get ahead. 

Edited July 17, 2013 by Talilon

[Silures 91]

Enhance my graaaaaaaaaas

 

 

One pack a day one pack a day one pack a daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

 

Awon packaday one packa day one pakadaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay?

 

Hawon pacaday pack packa day daaaaaaay.

 

Thankyou, gnite

[Talilon 57]

Enhance my graaaaaaaaaas

 

 

One pack a day one pack a day one pack a daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

 

Awon packaday one packa day one pakadaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay?

 

Hawon pacaday pack packa day daaaaaaay.

 

Thankyou, gnite

lol nice

[sunsvortex 599]

Below is why I think they should not change enchanted grass back to permanent. Nothing but 1 x 2's as far as the eye can see. Luckily since the change..these types of pens are a lot less common now and most are rotting away..as this one is. this is a good thing. Keeps horse hoarding to a minimum.

 

 

Now...I have started with new pens that are working quite nicely. I use Camelia hedges so that they only grow to medium height and use the new roundpole fence gates. the pens are 3x3 with an Oak in the center. The oak creates grass and kills any new trees that may like to try and invade. I have had the horse pictured in this pen for a couple weeks now. Only ever see 1 tile packed so if I get OCD about ,it a quick flower planting and its back to good. Since im using hedges as the fences one can easily construct off deed pens with outer stone walls and inner hedge walls to minimize maintenance and use your perimeter if you so wish.

 

 

Any way you want to build them..just build bigger pens if you must have pens. I should have enough room on my deed to hold 40 animals all in their own individual pens just by surrounding the deed with pens and have all the core of the deed free to do everything else.

 

I have no real issues with grass being trampled at all.

Edited July 18, 2013 by sunsvortex

[Lithien 268]

Below is why I think they should not change enchanted grass back to permanent. Nothing but 1 x 2's as far as the eye can see. Luckily since the change..these types of pens are a lot less common now and most are rotting away..as this one is. this is a good thing. Keeps horse hoarding to a minimum.

 

 

Now...I have started with new pens that are working quite nicely. I use Camelia hedges so that they only grow to medium height and use the new roundpole fence gates. the pens are 3x3 with an Oak in the center. The oak creates grass and kills any new trees that may like to try and invade. I have had the horse pictured in this pen for a couple weeks now. Only ever see 1 tile packed so if I get OCD about ,it a quick flower planting and its back to good. Since im using hedges as the fences one can easily construct off deed pens with outer stone walls and inner hedge walls to minimize maintenance and use your perimeter if you so wish.

 

 

Any way you want to build them..just build bigger pens if you must have pens. I should have enough room on my deed to hold 40 animals all in their own individual pens just by surrounding the deed with pens and have all the core of the deed free to do everything else.

 

I have no real issues with grass being trampled at all.

Are you serious?

 

Because of the changes, I have had to turn my beloved big pens into the hated 2x1s.

 

I liked the look and feel of my big pens, but all the animals would always pile up in one corner of the pen. There would be a lot of packing in the corner, and animals would rather starve than eat of the tiles with grass on, so I would have to plant flowers twice a day. The solution could have been to use enchant grass pre-nerf, but now that gets packed too (and is way too difficult to re-enchant, if it happens often), so I made 2x1 pens, where my enchanted grass rarely gets packed. The non-enchanted grass still gets packed often in the small pens, and as I don't have all the pens enchanted yet, I am still replanting flowers daily, but at least I have been doing that so much now, that I rarely lose the flowers.

 

I love the look of your pens though, but 9 tiles pr animal on deed wouldn't leave much room for farms, trees, buildings, roads etc and unfortunately your comment about using those pens on perimeter, only works if you don't breed your animals, as the miscarriage rate off-deed is quite high and way too often results in the pregnant animal's death.

[leaf 283]

Has anyone tried marsh to see if animals will feed off of it?

Edited July 19, 2013 by leaf

[sunsvortex 599]

Are you serious?

 

Because of the changes, I have had to turn my beloved big pens into the hated 2x1s.

 

I liked the look and feel of my big pens, but all the animals would always pile up in one corner of the pen. There would be a lot of packing in the corner, and animals would rather starve than eat of the tiles with grass on, so I would have to plant flowers twice a day. The solution could have been to use enchant grass pre-nerf, but now that gets packed too (and is way too difficult to re-enchant, if it happens often), so I made 2x1 pens, where my enchanted grass rarely gets packed. The non-enchanted grass still gets packed often in the small pens, and as I don't have all the pens enchanted yet, I am still replanting flowers daily, but at least I have been doing that so much now, that I rarely lose the flowers.

 

I love the look of your pens though, but 9 tiles pr animal on deed wouldn't leave much room for farms, trees, buildings, roads etc and unfortunately your comment about using those pens on perimeter, only works if you don't breed your animals, as the miscarriage rate off-deed is quite high and way too often results in the pregnant animal's death.

Edited July 19, 2013 by sunsvortex

[Talilon 57]

Everyones play style and tastes are different. Why limit other people on what they want just because you don't feel like you need it?  

 

For example, enchanted grass being permanent. What is your reason for not wanting the change reverted?

 

1) I don't want people being able to horde animals - Fixed with the deed ratio

2) I don't want people being able to keep animals in 1x1 pens - the enchanted grass change makes 1x1 pens more desirable as they don't pack as often because the animal never moves! Large pastures pack often and are harder to keep up

3) Path of  Love was overpowered - You can create a tile that is used for looks, or feeding animals. Overpowered? Really?

4) Unlimited grass is unrealistic - Magic mailboxes, Enchants, Spells, ect

5) I don't think people should be able to feed unlimited animals off of one tile - The animal disease feature fixes that

 

What other reasons are there?  Are they worth losing players, and people losing interest in animal husbandry?

 

If we are honest here, the majority of people who are against enchanted grass being permanent are trying to limit someone else and how they play because they don't agree. If you don't want permanent enchanted grass, you don't have to use it! But please don't try to force your idea of fun on those that want it. Options are good!

 

There have been many great ideas on a compromise in this thread, including adjusting enchanted grass decay rate so it isn't as hard to keep up, or adding grass levels to enchanted grass so that it can be eaten down but not packed but I have yet to see a single developer comment in here, or give any indication that they are  listening to our suggestions and feedback.  I'm very disappointed with the lack of response especially considering Wurms small player base, the response to this thread is huge

[spellcast 983]

I am going to jump in here and make a few comments, that will probably not be very popular. I will however point out that I am doing so as a player, not in any official capacity, and the opinions are MINE and in no way reflect onetwofree or the GM teams policies.

 

Everyones play style and tastes are different. Why limit other people on what they want just because you don't feel like you need it?  

 

 

Every time we have a discussion about something (farming, breeding, enchanting, watching grass grow)  this argument gets used, usually by someone who feels that a change (proposed or implemented) makes their personal gameplay style harder.

The issue I have with the argument is that it doesn't always make a lot of logical sense, and I believe that this is one of those cases, and here is why.

 

EVERYTHING in wurm takes a certain amount of effort, to me that is one of the major reasons to continue to play, there is no "Win" button. Now, some activities take more effort than others, but the general concept (to me) that underlies everything is - more effort, more reward;

by the same token, the more that you try to do, the more time and effort you have to put in, its far easier to build a small house than a giant castle, so keeping a few animals should be a lot harder than keeping a hundred of them.

 

Having animals is a cool thing, its a goal that many players aspire to, BUT like everything else it should take some regular effort to maintain things. Enchanted grass avoided a lot of that because it takes away a significant part of the challenge of keeping animals healthy and fed, especially if you want to have a LOT of animals.

 

This is why I feel that the change to grass is a good move. It does make keeping a lot of animals harder, but only because (As I see it) the enchanted grass itself working as it did was unintentionally making the task easier than rolf intended it to be. 

Play style and tastes are all well and good, but not If they are based on something that goes counter to what the game is intended to be, In this case Its like me saying "I'm a blacksmith, my play style would be a lot easier for me if things didn't need to be glowing with heat to create or improve. If you don't want to leave your smithing items cold, you don't have to do it!"

 

Keeping animals fed is (as far as I can tell from changes rolf has made throughout the time I have played) intended to be part of the challenge of having lots of animals.

 

As a potential solution however (if the idea of keeping the grass short/med/long as xallo suggests is too hard to do), why not give enchanted grass a significant boost to longevity (but still not permanent) as long as it's on a deed.  Deeds already prevent decay on houses and fences, but the moment the deed is gone those things begin to decay normally, and at least with a deed you are contributing something in order to receive your extra benefits. 

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

To all those who say enchanted grass was OP, it made keeping animals too easy, do YOU have the ability to enchant grass?  Did you spend the time meditating the love path to get the ability?  From what I can see, all those who say the change was good can't enchant grass, which means most of your words are basically jealousy, because you don't have it.

[Talilon 57]

As a potential solution however (if the idea of keeping the grass short/med/long as xallo suggests is too hard to do), why not give enchanted grass a significant boost to longevity (but still not permanent) as long as it's on a deed.  Deeds already prevent decay on houses and fences, but the moment the deed is gone those things begin to decay normally, and at least with a deed you are contributing something in order to receive your extra benefits. 

 

I think this is an awesome idea. I'm 100% fine with enchanted grass not being permanent, it's losing multiple tiles a night and not being able to keep my area enchanted that's driving me crazy.

 

 

I appreciate your insight, and sharing your perspective!

However, in keeping with your blacksmithing analogy, you don't have to log in every day to heat your tools to glowing hot. You can throw them in a chest and come back a month later and repair/improve them and you are good to go. With animals you could lose months of traits.

 

There are days that I don't feel like playing Wurm. Either vacation, or I just feel like doing something else but I feel like I HAVE to log in every single day to make sure one of my pens isn't packed and to use my enchanted grass cooldown so I don't get even further behind.

In my opinion, enchanted grass was a game saver because I could actually focus on grooming for skill, or planning which animals to mate to get the best traits.

 

And don't forget that it took considerable time and effort to earn the ability to enchant grass.

 

I guess you could say I shouldn't be messing around with animal husbandry if I don't want to put in the time and effort, which I have considered, but it's an aspect of this game that I really enjoy. 

[sunsvortex 599]

Everyones play style and tastes are different. Why limit other people on what they want just because you don't feel like you need it? 

 

For example, enchanted grass being permanent. What is your reason for not wanting the change reverted?

 

1) I don't want people being able to horde animals - Fixed with the deed ratio (and enchanted grass tweak)

2) I don't want people being able to keep animals in 1x1 pens - the enchanted grass change makes 1x1 pens more desirable as they don't pack as often because the animal never moves! Large pastures pack often and are harder to keep up (I disagree - see below for explanation)

 

If we are honest here, the majority of people who are against enchanted grass being permanent are trying to limit someone else and how they play because they don't agree. If you don't want permanent enchanted grass, you don't have to use it! But please don't try to force your idea of fun on those that want it. Options are good!

 

OK...I had to go looking for this one as its been a long time since I was heavily breeding. I used to have 100+ animals...90% horses and the below shot is just a small portion of the upper pens I had...long before any of the new fences and multistory. New animal graphics were just starting to come out when this was taken. As you can see there are a lot of 1x2's and 2x2's in this shot. The 1x2's are holding a single animal and the 2x2's hold 2. Notice there also no tiles of enchanted grass...I used crops...I was just starting to get enchanted grass going down on the lower pens so I think there was only 1 enchanted grass tile ..maybe 2 over to the left of the pic that's not shown....So here is my point...all those pens required "daily" replanting with crops or flowers. Even the 1x2's that you say do not get packed as much and are made more desirable now. Such a statement is simply not true. replanting in those 1x2's was a "daily" chore..unless you got the enchanted grass in...no more work then.  You can easily see the new crop tiles in the 1x2's. To state that removing the permanency from enchanted grass tiles encourages 1x2 pens..is simply not true...or for those who think that's a solution..they will learn...as I did...its a daily chore. that's why all those old horse pens in my first post are rotting away..they simply don't work anymore unless you really want to spend all day replanting tiles.

 

[Talilon 57]

 To state that removing the permanency from enchanted grass tiles encourages 1x2 pens..is simply not true...or for those who think that's a solution..they will learn...as I did...its a daily chore. that's why all those old horse pens in my first post are rotting away..they simply don't work anymore unless you really want to spend all day replanting tiles.

 

 

Thanks for posting your experience, but mine has been quite different. As I posted earlier this week, I've had a test 1x2 pen for a couple of months now to see if more animals per tile does make enchanted grass pack faster. I keep a changing number of animals in it from 4 which is the maximum you can have without them getting diseased, up the as many as I felt like putting in there and not one packed tile in that pen since I enchanted it.

 

So, yes. I love my big pasture with a low population of animals, but it seems to pack way more often than the 1x2 pens.

Also, I've not tested this but I'm told 1x1 pens pack even less because the animal can't move so no automatic pathing.

 

so, feel free to post your experience, I welcome it. But don't call me a liar just because your experience didn't match mine.