Keep Pristine Pristine.

[Hula_Girl 266]

Closing borders and introducing high customs duties has been always a good way to boost population's wealth and happiness. Also, if you really love some piece of land, it will be always pristine to you, even after you terraform it over and over again.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but this is the most absurd thread I've read in weeks.

[Bachus 462]

Any drawback you can see for join pristine to the cluster, its something you can say abut every new server that was created and joined in the past, so i don´t really see why the pristinians should have a different deal than the rest of the servers.

I don´t see any good in keep the comunity split, and the split is allaways negative, even wen necesary for keep 2 diferent play styles (pve-pvp).

As GreenHero expressed, you are depriving of participation in the new server a lot of people that has made his contribution to help in the goal of reach the state of the game rigth now, and don´t have the time or for any rason don´t want to start from 0.

I´ve started in Cele only a couple of months ago, there are tons of people more skilled than me, with more money, with more resources, etc, so under your point of view i neeed to call for a reset so all the people start at my level? I´´m only can do lvl 65 tools, so i want all the other crafters caped at 65, so they don´t ruin my market, also delete all enchants and block any future enchant, because i don´t have a priest.

No one is denying anoyone from going to the Pristine cluster. Just denying them being able to take thier boat full of insta-deed and super high ql stuff with them. Anyone can make a toon on the pristine cluster.

If you do not want a fresh start, stay on the freedom cluster.

If you want access to those high skilled crafter of old, stay on freedom cluster.

If you want a 'safe' enviroment devoid of the really big nasties, stay on freedom cluster.

If you do want a fresh start on equal footing with everyone else, go to pristine cluster.

If you want the chance to work up your skills and be the GoTo guy for your craft, go to the Pristine cluster.

If you want the challenge of developing around and someday defeating th big nasties, go to the Pristine cluster.

The Pristine cluster and the Freedom cluster appeal to as different playstyles as PVE and PVP if not more so.

Connecting them would Homogenize the population and make it all one playstyle again appealing to a smaller market again and losing people to boredom again.

To those that say in 3 years it will be the same as Freedom, well let's talk about that in 3 years; and if so start a new cluster then.

[Ecrir 887]

So Bachus, using your logic in the future we should have another cluster seperate from Freedom and Pristine, and then another, and another, and so on? After all if that isn't done then it's unfair to future new players as they wouldn't get the chance to start fresh on equal footing with everyone else otherwise. (Or are the pristine players suddenly special from future new players?)

And there's the entire problem, splitting the player base like that will result in some clusters going dead because new players would often favor servers where they can start on relatively equal footing to others and people can't move between clusters. In the future the oldest clusters could very well die due to this, and of course Chaos would too since it would only be connected to a small portion of the PvE servers, resulting in a much smaller influx of potential pvp players for that server (figured I'd mention that for the chaos players who hope to get PvP back on their server in full and haven't caught on yet to the implications of never linking up pristine).

And when such an old cluster dies, the few players who were still on it would lose nearly everything they have worked on over the years, increasing the chance that they will also quit. It's a loss loss situation for Wurm, Rolf and many of the PvE players if they don't connect Pristine and other future PvE servers to the Freedom cluster. Not even mentioning that it would be a case of false advertising, since some people probably joined the server because it would be connected up eventually, as it was advertised like that. So Rolf would then have to compensate many players too...

[snowblind 38]

please keep the server seperate from the rest. . thank you

[Hussars 511]

What it comes down to is, the server was announced as intended for new palyers to get their footing, then later be linked into the rest of Freedom. Everyone joining the server should have been aware of this.

You've already had a few of the people posting here that they joined with the idea to be able to eventually play on the other servers once they were linked. Players joined with the understanding that this was going to happen. So now you don't want the isle to linked?

There is no element of gameplay that is unique to Pristine that would support this other than market control. Sure you still have the unique critters, and once you have more than 2 or 3, 70 fight skill (fs) characters, guess where they're going hunting. It's not Epic where there is PVP, a skill curve and higher baseline fs monsters. It's not Chaos/Wild where there is PVP (okay Chaos and PVP is a running joke currently, but still, it is supposed to be PVP). What does Pristine have? You can't even claim it is only new players since there are a few complaints of established players making alts and "land grabbing".

At the end of the day, there is no long term reason beyond a desire to retain control of the market (item or land) that would support this idea. As to fracturing the client base, just look at this thread for proof of this actually happening more so already.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Hussars

[KunAlt 844]

No one is denying anoyone from going to the Pristine cluster. Just denying them being able to take thier boat full of insta-deed and super high ql stuff with them. Anyone can make a toon on the pristine cluster.

If you do not want a fresh start, stay on the freedom cluster.

If you want access to those high skilled crafter of old, stay on freedom cluster.

If you want a 'safe' enviroment devoid of the really big nasties, stay on freedom cluster.

If you do want a fresh start on equal footing with everyone else, go to pristine cluster.

If you want the chance to work up your skills and be the GoTo guy for your craft, go to the Pristine cluster.

If you want the challenge of developing around and someday defeating th big nasties, go to the Pristine cluster.

The Pristine cluster and the Freedom cluster appeal to as different playstyles as PVE and PVP if not more so.

Connecting them would Homogenize the population and make it all one playstyle again appealing to a smaller market again and losing people to boredom again.

To those that say in 3 years it will be the same as Freedom, well let's talk about that in 3 years; and if so start a new cluster then.

Why this option was not offered to celebration? and more important why the people in pristine will receive a diferential treatment than the one in the rest of Freedoom clusters?

And by the way there is no such thing as ¨pristine cluster¨ and there is no such thing as ¨pristine playstyle¨, i have a char in pristine, and i see the same behavior than in any other freedom server, same problems, same good people, same bad people...

The main difference is that the uniques are still there and the templars kill anacondas.

[Mhyth 14]

So Bachus, using your logic in the future we should have another cluster seperate from Freedom and Pristine, and then another, and another, and so on? After all if that isn't done then it's unfair to future new players as they wouldn't get the chance to start fresh on equal footing with everyone else otherwise. (Or are the pristine players suddenly special from future new players?)

You are completely ignoring the fact that Wurm 1.0 has been declared the official release product by Code Club themselves. This isn't simply yet another server launch - it's a hugely significant point in time in Wurm's development. Trying to tie that to every single server launch in the future is just a blatant exaggeration.

Please, the original Freedom servers are not going to suddenly or even over the long term become abandoned. Folks whined and cried when Exodus was launched so short of a time after Deliverance was launched that the same thing would happen. It didn't. I watched a huge migration to the previous new servers and also a large influx of players moving back to and new players starting on Independence in the last several months. All this crying about splitting the community and server populations dying is just knee jerk hysterics and unrealistic. The way Wurm is played the vast majority of players rarely leave the immediate world area around their deed location anyway.

I've been playing for nearly 2 years, have a large deed on Independence, a character with 90+ digging and many 60-70+ skills, and have invested hundreds of dollars in that. I have no intention of abandoning that. I'm also playing on Pristine, and while being able to take advantage of those resources would be convenient - it's in no way needed and for all the reasons listed above and more connecting the servers will have many negative consequences.

Let Wurm expand and grow without all the self-centered entitlement attitudes. Hike your shorts up, venture onto he new servers and expend the effort to skill up and establish something new if you so choose rather than moaning that it's too hard to do it all over again and you shouldn't have to because 'Rolf said....waaaahhhh!'

[Stargrace 603]

It was released saying it would be connected. With the understanding that it WOULD at some point, be connected. 6 months 1 year 10 years, it doesn't matter. People did settle there with the thought that "one day" it will be connected.

Separating your player base is NEVER a good thing. In any game. When people have 90+ skills, when the unique are all dead, it will be the same as every other server out there. There's no reason for it not to be connected.

In the end none of that matters, it either will or it won't be, but it's absolutely disgusting to hear the rude comments and insults flung at people simply because of whether they're new or a veteran player. Veterans have been supporting this game for 6+ years now. New players help add to its current state. We ALL play Wurm and enjoy it for whatever reason. The reasons don't have to be the same. Stop turning this into some big mob scene of Us vs. Them. We are all playing the same game. Lets just continue to do that.

[Icerus 13]

I agree about "it would at some point be connected", only thing is - 10 years is good.

+1 to Mhyth.

Although if we'll get to the point then it'll be like :

One side - "keep em of our precious Pristine server, we don't need superskillers, we'll do it on our own"

Other side - "Rolf promised to connect, he should do it, don't split our small community up"

While I am on the "new players" side, I still think that this question can be discussed, say, in 6 months, so we'd all see if there will still be a problem.

As for now -

1) argument about "Rolf promised" and "many of us came on Peistine thinking to go to friends on other servers later". Portal from pristine to other Freedom isles will make it.

2) argument about splitting community - as long as customer pays he has a right to choose how he wants to play this game.

P.S. Reference to money spent to help Rolf build this game sounds wierd as it's more like "I payed you for 6 years for your buggy game and I have a right to milk new players".

I myself spent around 500euros since pristine release on deeds and new premiums, so why - my opinion weights more than other? I think answer is the same as to the argument above.

[Hussars 511]

I agree about "it would at some point be connected", only thing is - 10 years is good.

+1 to Mhyth.

Although if we'll get to the point then it'll be like :

One side - "keep em of our precious Pristine server, we don't need superskillers, we'll do it on our own"

Other side - "Rolf promised to connect, he should do it, don't split our small community up"

While I am on the "new players" side, I still think that this question can be discussed, say, in 6 months, so we'd all see if there will still be a problem.

As for now -

1) argument about "Rolf promised" and "many of us came on Peistine thinking to go to friends on other servers later". Portal from pristine to other Freedom isles will make it.

2) argument about splitting community - as long as customer pays he has a right to choose how he wants to play this game.

P.S. Reference to money spent to help Rolf build this game sounds wierd as it's more like "I payed you for 6 years for your buggy game and I have a right to milk new players".

I myself spent around 500euros since pristine release on deeds and new premiums, so why - my opinion weights more than other? I think answer is the same as to the argument above.

First every player, F2P or Premium, should have the ability to have their say. Most of comments about long term players and money invested were to counter the "no old players"commenting statement.

Next, add you said everyone should be able to play as they want. so why does connecting this server to the rest of the pve cluster stop this? You don't want to talk to someone, buy their stuff, etc..., then don't.

Keeping servers separated only serves to create a "Us vs Them" situation. Again, look at this thread for the proof.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Hussars

[Aeris 3,767]

Pristine was released along with Wurm 1.0, and is essential in not scaring new customers away. Imagine not knowing how to even control your character and landing on a server where everyone else has 90+ skills and ql80 tools. The game is being marketed as a newly released one, so people will feel cheated when they come into something which does not at all have the "new game" feeling to it.

I think that the Pristine server should stay disconnected from the Freedom cluster and instead be the beginning of a new cluster. Pristine, Release and future servers can be their own cluster.

[Hussars 511]

Pristine was released along with Wurm 1.0, and is essential in not scaring new customers away. Imagine not knowing how to even control your character and landing on a server where everyone else has 90+ skills and ql80 tools. The game is being marketed as a newly released one, so people will feel cheated when they come into something which does not at all have the "new game" feeling to it.

I think that the Pristine server should stay disconnected from the Freedom cluster and instead be the beginning of a new cluster. Pristine, Release and future servers can be their own cluster.

And what happens when Pristine has 90skills and 80+ql items?

New cluster again?

I cannot speak for anyone else, but personally, I have no real desire to move to Pristine. However, I don't want to have the option for me to move one of my developed characters there after the server has had a chance to mature in skills and gear removed from me.

I've not seen a single post from those wanting to join the servers that has said it has to be "Now". Everyone seems to be saying the same thing, once the server has gotten established.

I'm trying to understand where this idea of "it's magically different" is coming from. It uses the same gameplay mechanics as the rest of Freedom cluster (minus Wild/Chaos), so not seeing the "WHY" of it being kept separate "forever".

::edit insert::

There is also an additional downside beyond fragmenting the community further. What about the people, like myself, who hire new players to help them earn money and skill and usually provide gear as well?

I think I've ever made 1 WTS post and that was to GIVE AWAY mid-ql logs and/or dirt, so I'm not looking for a link into the market or to "flood" the server in some way.

And to the idea of portals, unless you get to travel both ways and it is treated like any other server "transfer" you're not likely to get much support for that unless the server starts dying. For the same reason people would be expected to return to their deeds on the linked servers of Freedom.

Again, I don't understand this "our server will always be fresh and friendly for new players" idea, when there are no in-game mechanics to enforce this. At least in GV there was a 20 skill cap so there was a limit to how much you could do easily...

I still only see this as a way for people to maintain control of markets (item and/or land) without needing to compete with more established characters. Funny thing is, the people I see arguing the loudest for this are the longer term players who moved there..

Edited December 21, 2012 by Hussars

[Aeris 3,767]

It's not about the idea that the servers will always be "new and fresh", it's more about giving players that came here because of the 1.0 release an honest chance. We all know that there will never be "fairly distributed" skills across the servers, but having two PvE server clusters will at least separate the long term characters from newly created characters just enough for there to be a "new game" appeal for a while. Of course the players on Pristince and Celebration will reach high skills eventually, but at least give the players that arrive now that wants to check out the "new game" a chance.

[Icerus 13]

First every player, F2P or Premium, should have the ability to have their say.

That's what I was saying. Won't go in details too many posts involved.

Next, add you said everyone should be able to play as they want. so why does connecting this server to the rest of the pve cluster stop this? You don't want to talk to someone, buy their stuff, etc..., then don't.

Keeping servers separated only serves to create a "Us vs Them" situation. Again, look at this thread for the proof.

Yup, this thread is a proof that there are a solid group of players (look at the poll results) that think that "connecting this server to the rest of the pve cluster stop this" or they wouldn't come here, vote, and so on. So there is some viewpoint that many people on that server do not want to connect.

With all that. I don't want to argue. My point is "this topic should be reviewed in 6 months again". There are too many alts and new players in unknown proportion. many accounts will last for 2 months... maybe, and maybe not. It's too early to talk about.

[Notsodirt 139]

If you really want this Silliness.

Then I request a option to transfer a Character

From Pristine to the other freedom servers " with or without none noob tools"

[Hussars 511]

[...] Of course the players on Pristince and Celebration will reach high skills eventually, but at least give the players that arrive now that wants to check out the "new game" a chance.

Rereading the thread again, but still not seeing anyone saying it has to be now. Maybe something said in GL-Chat I missed? (I tend to ignore GL lol)

In your previous post, you specifically asked that they be kept separate for reasons that you now appear to be saying are fine as long as it is only on Pristine... So, new players joining after Pristine/Release have 90skill and 80+ql items is fine, but not okay for Pristine to join a server with the same conditions?

::edit insert::

I'm not saying they need to link the servers now, I agree, let them establish their markets and local politics, but they need to keep an eye towards joining the world at large

::/edit::

[...]With all that. I don't want to argue. My point is "this topic should be reviewed in 6 months again". There are too many alts and new players in unknown proportion. many accounts will last for 2 months... maybe, and maybe not. It's too early to talk about.

The problem is that those who have been here for longer than a month fear that topics put off are never addressed. Or are addressed but in a manner never intended.

As to linking the servers, and timing, now is actually a good time to do so. Characters are not established, so if this is to be a discussion on the final outcome, it only serves those wanting to keep them separate to NOT discuss it now. Again, you're already seeing players talking about leaving the server or asking for options to be transfer because they joined under the stated intent of joining these new servers to Freedom.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Hussars

[Aeris 3,767]

In your previous post, you specifically asked that they be kept separate for reasons that you now appear to be saying are fine as long as it is only on Pristine... So, new players joining after Pristine/Release have 90skill and 80+ql items is fine, but not okay for Pristine to join a server with the same conditions?

To be honest I do not know what your problem with this is. The new servers aren't made for the old players, they're intended to attract new players to the game. If you don't want to spend time creating a character that won't ever be able to go to your home in the Freedom cluster then don't create that character on Pristine.

I'm not saying that it's "unfair and boohoo", I'm saying that people joining NOW think they're joining a newly released game (because that's what it's being announced to be). Let's not rob them of that.

I just don't see a point in connecting Pristine to the rest of the old servers since it's not intended as an extension - it's intended to be a fresh start for 1.0. And fine, Rolf might later decide that he wants to connect it to the rest of the servers and it might work out just fine. The point is though that there is no real reason to connect it.

[Hussars 511]

My problem with it is, the main players I see pushing it to stay separate are LONG TERM PLAYERS ::edit insert:: who are PLAYING on the server. ::/edit::

The truly new players starting didn't know about the tutorial safe zone skill farming.

They don't know the fastest way to skill up in the world.

They don't know which skills have the largest impact on character development.

Reports (in this thread no less) of stupidly over priced starter items.. claims of 5s for a rope? Really? Sure, it could have been someone who didn't know better, but I'm willing to bet that was a long term player's alt gouging while they can.

You want to keep it for truly new players, kick (and block) every established player's alt off the server.

::Additional Edit Insert:: Already having issues reported like this one, yeah new players.. right

but you know what, you're right I don't intend to make a character to play on a server that has the same mechanics I'm playing by now. Let it do what it will do, but get the established player's alts out of the driver's seat. Let the real new players try their hand at the reins.

Best of luck to those on the new servers.. from the look of things.. you'll need it lol

::/edit::

Edited December 21, 2012 by Hussars

[Aeris 3,767]

You want to keep it for truly new players, kick (and block) every established player's alt off the server.

No, they're good to have around. They know how the game works and can help people out by explaining things to them. What they don't need is high QL items and terraforming masterpieces thrown at them while entering a supposedly new game.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Aeris

[Laiwyn 188]

I just don't see a point in connecting Pristine to the rest of the old servers since it's not intended as an extension - it's intended to be a fresh start for 1.0. And fine, Rolf might later decide that he wants to connect it to the rest of the servers and it might work out just fine. The point is though that there is no real reason to connect it.

And where did Rolf specifically say that Pristine and any future servers (such as Release) are not intended as an extension? What's that? Oh yeah, he never said that. Also, I can't see how you don't see that not connecting Pristine and creating a new server cluster is a bad idea when it will be essentially the same as current Freedom. There have been countless posts in this thread already talking about why it's pointless to do what you're suggesting.

Also, I don't believe Rolf has tried to fool anyone into believing this is a brand-new game. It has the 1.0 release title but if you read articles about the game's 1.0 release you will find they talk about the game being in beta for years.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Laiwyn

[Aeris 3,767]

Well for one - he didn't connect it.

[Laiwyn 188]

Well for one - he didn't connect it.

Well when he said that the server wouldn't be connected for an undetermined amount of time it's pretty obvious he views Pristine as a delayed extension of the Freedom cluster.

[Hussars 511]

No, they're good to have around. They know how the game works and can help people out by explaining things to them. What they don't need is high QL items and terraforming masterpieces thrown at them while entering a supposedly new game.

The experienced players are available via forum and GL-Chat, as well as /CA, they don't need to be on the server to help.

::edit insert:: with the POSSIBLE exception of the mappers like DarkMalice. They provide a service that is better supported by being on the server at least until it is handed off to someone else. ::/edit::

Edited December 21, 2012 by Hussars

[Aeris 3,767]

The experienced players are available via forum and GL-Chat, as well as /CA, they don't need to be on the server to help.

Okay. So what would be the point of connecting Pristine to the Freedom cluster? You've listened while I've explained why I think it's unnecessary to connect them, now I'll listen to your reasons for thinking they should be connected.

[Hussars 511]

Look, I've listed them throughout the conversation, and usually in counter to the "keep them separate because" posts..

Want the short list?

Based on the linking to occur AFTER Pristine has established its own market and local politics (maybe 1 year or even 2, but would suggest it be based on number/percentage of characters at a set skill level and market levels instead of time):

• Potential increases to all markets (resources and finished goods) both into and out of Pristine. [The server could be low in Marble/Slate or could be the resource capital of the cluster for all we know] And don't forget things like grass enchants won't be on the server for months due to the time requirements.
  
• Ability for established players to expand into new area (both the Rest of Freedom players moving in and the Pristine players moving out)
  
• Better able to highlight creative abilities within the game. (Older deeds have had a lot more time to build, some players like to go see things "in person" since a screen shot only shows so much, just like people travel in real life)
  
• A stronger base for Freedom players to expand/promote ideas for PVE changes which leads into...
  
• Less potential hostilities between clusters. (look at Epic "vs" Freedom or "Chaos vs Rolf" lol)
  

Just off the top of my head.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Hussars