Still waiting for some content...

[Spacy 659]

For all you doom and gloom people - can I have your stuff?

[Locath 533]

3 hours ago, Spacy said:

For all you doom and gloom people - can I have your stuff?

You might have misunderstood the (yet another) plea for updates and communication for "we quit". None of that was said.

As far as civil this conversation was up until this point, that's out the window i suppose.

[Stinboi 367]

2021 roadmap most of it isnt released or even talked about after

2023 roadmap havent heard a word about anything and we are now well over halfway in, 

 

Before this we had the animal revamp that was released with many bugs and took half year before they bother to do something with, and didnt it take ages for tem to pay out prizes to the winner of the design contest?

They made a thread about official small tutorials vids that never happen.

They asked for community thoughts about added red dots where deed was and the easy vs depth thread, did they ever consider that or was just "to show that they exist"

 

Exploration update isnt finish and by the look of it iseems to not been worked on atm(whats goin on here?)

 

Its a trend here,, its hard to see atm what they are trying to do or where they want to take wurm, 

 

Looking at history, it will be very hard to believe it if they do announce anything.

also strange that they could announce VR a few years back but not what they working on right now

 

Wurm is a game like no other(atleast right now) so i do hope they choose a direction that will give success but devolepment has to speed up and they need to stick with the way they go, its just so confusing.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Stinboi

[TheTrickster 2,290]

48 minutes ago, Stinboi said:

They asked for community thoughts about added red dots where deed was and the easy vs depth thread, did they ever consider that or was just "to show that they exist"

Yeah, even at the time it seemed a bit like flag-waving.  But at the time even getting flag-waving was more than people were accustomed to experiencing.  Depressing, really.

While depth/ease was a bit of a flag wave for players, VR was purely a flag wave for investors. 

 

It has reached the point that it isn't even dangling a carrot enticingly out of reach.  We are being told that possibly someone at some time might have something that just could be carrot-like, but we can't tell you about it yet.  

 

[Malvado 37]

8 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Yeah, even at the time it seemed a bit like flag-waving.  But at the time even getting flag-waving was more than people were accustomed to experiencing.  Depressing, really.

While depth/ease was a bit of a flag wave for players, VR was purely a flag wave for investors. 

 

It has reached the point that it isn't even dangling a carrot enticingly out of reach.  We are being told that possibly someone at some time might have something that just could be carrot-like, but we can't tell you about it yet.  

 

I personally have always tried to keep my customers aware on when I could be delivering what I was working on or when a session could be done in order to prepare them. 

I've also done some basic programming stuff, enough to see that if you have the manpower you more or less can predict approx when it should be finished.

And honestly I think that old projects that was talked about probably is way too complicated to implement properly and what we see are just add-ons and some graphics improvements. A lot of things needs to change in order to get very good results : c ode language, code platform to simplify a bit and proper engines for the different parts of the game.

[atazs 965]

16 hours ago, Stinboi said:

2021 roadmap most of it isnt released or even talked about after

2023 roadmap havent heard a word about anything and we are now well over halfway in, 

 

Before this we had the animal revamp that was released with many bugs and took half year before they bother to do something with, and didnt it take ages for tem to pay out prizes to the winner of the design contest?

They made a thread about official small tutorials vids that never happen.

They asked for community thoughts about added red dots where deed was and the easy vs depth thread, did they ever consider that or was just "to show that they exist"

 

Exploration update isnt finish and by the look of it iseems to not been worked on atm(whats goin on here?)

 

Its a trend here,, its hard to see atm what they are trying to do or where they want to take wurm, 

 

Looking at history, it will be very hard to believe it if they do announce anything.

also strange that they could announce VR a few years back but not what they working on right now

 

Wurm is a game like no other(atleast right now) so i do hope they choose a direction that will give success but devolepment has to speed up and they need to stick with the way they go, its just so confusing.

I'm sure they realised how insanely stupid VR Wurm sounds, and how unfeasably disastrous it would be, and silently abandoned the whole thing. One of the more sane decisions they've made in a while suppose. 

[Bottles 1]

lol

[TheTrickster 2,290]

On 7/14/2023 at 10:32 AM, joedobo said:

I wish Wurm would have asked the players what they find fun and add enabling content. Instead Wurm just decided that we need to explore more. And then adding content to try and get us to do so. I guess I should be happy because they could have gotten out the stick instead of the carrot and started nerfing play styles that don't explore.

 

Most of the player-side calls for exploration content were coming from players who were exploring and wanted something that actually rewards that.  Somebody seems to have completely misunderstood that, because what was delivered was a mechanism that rewards non-exploration with a chance of something at the end of an Easter-egg hunt.  It also felt like exploration was completely misunderstood as meaning leaving the deed.

The playstyle that explores got almost exactly nothing out of this "Exploration Update."

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by TheTrickster

[elentari 2,660]

6 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

.  It also felt like exploration was completely misunderstood as meaning leaving the deed.

The playstyle that explores got almost exactly nothing out of this "Exploration Update."

Hit the nail on the head right there. Which is why at one point I also suggested treasure maps should drop from goblins / trolls or other monsters. 

 

 

[Tor 530]

Actual new content probably only after new/relevant dev staff fill the placeholders

[Dredsol 12]

Shame on us

You wonder why staff don't communicate, in this very thread a dev tries to communicate and people argue with them about their JOB.

 

Modding and development are like saying manufacturing is the same as jury rigging, they are not even comparable.

 

Shame on them

That said, Wurm is garbage about treating their players with respect as far as direction or providing any sort of confidence in the continued success of the game.

 

Why add a convoluted and overall disjointed skill like cartography but not overhaul the tutorial and NPE?

 

Why not finish one of the most widely requested (and delayed) updates like camps?

 

I think adding some actual content IS straight forward and very easy to forecast profitablity with weighted sub measurements, so why not?

 

At least TELL US why not or what direction they intend the game to go instead

 

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Dredsol

[Demonix 79]

On 7/13/2023 at 6:54 PM, Dao said:

 

Always try to look deeper.

 

They won't do it for other reasons.

First, copyright. Where is the guarantee that tomorrow the "inventor" will not come with lawyers and will not try to take away their last pants? Always keep your own lawyer with you and run around the courts? It costs money.

 

Second, automation. This is a god feature for the owner of a small WU server. This can help attract 2-3 more people to his server. But automation (and macros/bots) is a big problem for owners of large servers. This reduces online time of each individual player. Multiply this by hundreds of players.... And the owner suddenly discovers that online has fallen, statistics have fallen, investments have fallen. Potential players see the stats drop in the project and think "Things are going badly for them. I won't go there." Falling interest is falling profits. This is the worst option for a large project.That's why WOW stopped publishing online statistics.

 

I'm not a big fan of Wurm's management team, but you're wrong about that.

 

 

I dunno, if i could automate brickmaking I could spend more time mining or smithing;  i could have a couple of donkeys to turn the driveshaft and smith in the open air.   It should probably require a minimum level of stonecrafting and not produce rares but often quality doesnt matter for bricks/planks in bulk.  I'd come back if I could do that, it sounds great.

[TheTrickster 2,290]

10 hours ago, Demonix said:

 

I dunno, if i could automate brickmaking I could spend more time mining or smithing;  i could have a couple of donkeys to turn the driveshaft and smith in the open air.   It should probably require a minimum level of stonecrafting and not produce rares but often quality doesnt matter for bricks/planks in bulk.  I'd come back if I could do that, it sounds great.

 

Yeah, mills could function quite well.  Currently, look at how much ore you can put into a smelter - you can batch process 100 lumps with no more action than lighting it, fueling it, filling it, emptying it. Why not the same of other processes?  I made  a suggestion for crafted items as well, where you can go to a more bulk production at the cost of rares and maximum QL (e.g. spindle to "hand-make" strings individually and the spinning wheel to turn out bulk).  Basically, this would then reflect a mid-game where you have the skills for production of bulk but currently not the means.

[Dao 145]

12 hours ago, Demonix said:

 

I dunno, if i could automate brickmaking I could spend more time mining or smithing;  i could have a couple of donkeys to turn the driveshaft and smith in the open air.   It should probably require a minimum level of stonecrafting and not produce rares but often quality doesnt matter for bricks/planks in bulk.  I'd come back if I could do that, it sounds great.

 

1 hour ago, TheTrickster said:

 

Yeah, mills could function quite well.  Currently, look at how much ore you can put into a smelter - you can batch process 100 lumps with no more action than lighting it, fueling it, filling it, emptying it. Why not the same of other processes?  I made  a suggestion for crafted items as well, where you can go to a more bulk production at the cost of rares and maximum QL (e.g. spindle to "hand-make" strings individually and the spinning wheel to turn out bulk).  Basically, this would then reflect a mid-game where you have the skills for production of bulk but currently not the means.

 

A typical posts of a typical hypocrites.

"I'm against automation. Bots are bad. They ruin the gameplay! But if I personally could automate the process a little, it would be good for me. It would not affect the game in any way."

 

(This is not a quote, this is an expression of the thought behind the post. Otherwise, some hypocrites have already accused me of lying)

[Sheffie 1,120]

The silver lining in all these clouds is that, since my premium is paid up through the end of the decade, and my deed has 600 days of upkeep, I don't have a difficult decision about whether to "QUIT quit" or just take a break.

The problem is, since my premium is paid up through the end of the decade, and my deed has 600 days of upkeep, there isn't much of an incentive for the devs to add new features. They can't expect much more income from me whatever they do.

 

I would like a reason to come back, and I am looking for one...

[elentari 2,660]

11 minutes ago, Sheffie said:

The silver lining in all these clouds is that, since my premium is paid up through the end of the decade, and my deed has 600 days of upkeep, I don't have a difficult decision about whether to "QUIT quit" or just take a break.

 

Kinda in the same boat. 

 

My upkeep is so small it can last for years on my petite deed on Deli. As for prem, I've decided to let my priest unprem and will let my main unprem itself eventually next year. I have zero incentive to spend anything on Wurm since wurm atm has nothing new to offer for years, no actual content that can daze me or say "wow, so happy I stayed prem for this!". 

 

Fact of the matter is wurm is a business and it needs to have the give < > take reciprocity of any business. Wurmians pay for...honestly at this point I dunno? Server upkeep costs? Do we even have 3 paid dev positions on the team? Two? Whatever wurmians are paying for they're not really getting and the fact that the forums , the servers and the trade chat in general dies more and more each day tells the story that they've given enough and people are slowly trickling away. Atm players aren't given much content for what they are giving. 

 

This string of failures in the past year needs to be fixed with some wise decision making. I am too cynical at this point to expect that to happen. 

[Archaed 2,282]

I always maintain with things, especially Wurm - you pay for what’s there, rather than for what’s coming. 
 

if what’s there doesn’t interest you, absolutely support taking a break 

[Finnn 3,321]

29 minutes ago, Archaed said:

I always maintain with things, especially Wurm - you pay for what’s there, rather than for what’s coming. 
 

if what’s there doesn’t interest you, absolutely support taking a break 

+1

 

It's not like there's a big drama with the game, you just need a break, you've taken many before, you just bark at the wrong tree right now, detach for a second, have fun with whatever entertains your attention more, return when you crave some more wurming.

 

[Dredsol 12]

2 hours ago, Archaed said:

I always maintain with things, especially Wurm - you pay for what’s there, rather than for what’s coming. 
 

if what’s there doesn’t interest you, absolutely support taking a break 

Nah, you pay for the NEXT 30 days not the previous 30 days.

 

If you buy a game outright, you pay for what is there.

 

On the other hand, the subscription model is to pay for the continued development and support of a game.

 

An mmo represents a time investment. 

 

Players have a stake in whether these games survive because if it fails we can't keep playing single player like a game you buy outright.

[Locath 533]

1 hour ago, Finnn said:

you just bark at the wrong tree right now

Solid advice.

Stop asking for communication or content. You have put tens of thousands of euro in to the game over the last 10+ years and you want to be told how things work or what's in the pipeline to come? Silly you.

Take a break and return in few months to see nothing has changed, nothing new was announced and nothing was added.

BUT! Make sure that you paid your upkeep for years to come, otherwise everything you made will be gone. Premium as well! Then you can play other games and not be a burden on the forums and take up valuable server resources.

 

Maybe this will be easier to understand:

 

I have bought Tetris 35 years ago. I paid for it once and never again. It hasn't been updated since and this is what i expected. Other than replacing batteries, it's a once off purchase of a complete product.

 

Collectively we have spent a lot of money on Wurm but that wasn't enough to finance some of the oldest bugs to be fixed.

As per Finn's advice. Keep paying, stop hoping (worse yet, having the audacity to ASK) for good things to come, go away and play other games.

 

To explain further:

In this post people are asking for simple changes, NOT for advise on how to avoid Wurm or how to deal with years worth of disappointment.

If we didn't love Wurm and want it to thrive, this post wouldn't exist. It comes from passion and hope that things will finally change and that Wurm will become attractive to more people. Not only those of us who enjoy spending years grinding a single skill.

[Finnn 3,321]

You've put thousands into buying bread, have you seen yourself going to the bakery and pulling a wild Karen rant infront for a new bagel?

 

Be reasonable, you cant just rage at everybody every time you are bored.

 

Things here clearly move, if it's not up to your expectation, that's another topic, don't think either is in position to judge. Last I checked nobody have a title or present their porfolio to back their "status" as judge, even then it's just a comment, you do not offer help or proper constructive critique, it's usually a rant. And I do not mean 'you' you.. it's a general speaking, most comments are opinions not facts.

 

Game's slow, really slow, it's normal to take breaks.

Tripple-A games struggle to keep player's attention, this happens for 1-2months(or less lol...) when they release new DLC or battle-pass. True? True.

 

@Locathshow me 1 game you play where they show you any pipeline for content, a dare?

Show me two.. if you pull a bunny out of that hat, oh now 3, 4, 5, 10? How many hours have you lost by now to prove that statement?

Nobody shows roadmaps, etc. You are lucky to read about a leak for new content.

 

28 minutes ago, Locath said:

Solid advice.

Stop asking for communication or content. You have put tens of thousands of euro in to the game over the last 10+ years and you want to be told how things work or what's in the pipeline to come? Silly you.

Take a break and return in few months to see nothing has changed, nothing new was announced and nothing was added.

BUT! Make sure that you paid your upkeep for years to come, otherwise everything you made will be gone. Premium as well! Then you can play other games and not be a burden on the forums and take up valuable server resources.

 

Maybe this will be easier to understand:

 

I have bought Tetris 35 years ago. I paid for it once and never again. It hasn't been updated since and this is what i expected. Other than replacing batteries, it's a once off purchase of a complete product.

 

Collectively we have spent a lot of money on Wurm but that wasn't enough to finance some of the oldest bugs to be fixed.

As per Finn's advice. Keep paying, stop hoping (worse yet, having the audacity to ASK) for good things to come, go away and play other games.

 

To explain further:

In this post people are asking for simple changes, NOT for advise on how to avoid Wurm or how to deal with years worth of disappointment.

If we didn't love Wurm and want it to thrive, this post wouldn't exist. It comes from passion and hope that things will finally change and that Wurm will become attractive to more people. Not only those of us who enjoy spending years grinding a single skill.

Yo, gaslight.. chill?

 

There are better ways to ask for content or active feedback/communication with the staff, Karen approach is not among them.

 

[Locath 533]

Just now, Finnn said:

You've put thousands into buying bread, have you seen yourself going to the bakery and pulling a wild Karen rant infront for a new bagel?

If the bread i buy is stale or moldy, you can bet i complain.

 

1 minute ago, Finnn said:

@Locathshow me 1 game you play where they show you any pipeline for content, a dare?

https://techtonicagame.com/techtonicas-development-roadmap-is-finally-here/

https://rust.nolt.io/roadmap

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/roadmap

https://muonline.webzen.com/en/news/update-roadmap/detail/13/2

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1614550/view/3405311447045407628 (Astro Colony)

 

Those are just some of the games i play. Those aren't "write something up to keep them happy", they stick to their roadmaps.

 

6 minutes ago, Finnn said:

There are better ways to ask for content or active feedback/communication with the staff

Better than on official forums, politely, in the correct forums section? I'm not going to knock on dev's door and offer them a beer for a smidge of information about the pipeline.

[Stargrace 603]

This post and a lot of the comments are frustrating to read. Please don't presume to speak for the entire player base. 

 

It's really easy to make demands, accusations, and to take issue with what is / isn't done when you're not the one doing whatever it is that isn't happening. 

 

No developer or game company WANTS to let down their player base. They don't want to have to issue 'it's late, we know' statements, or to keep people in the dark. They're passionate about the game, and they want it to succeed. They want it to grow - it benefits them just as much (or more) than it benefits players. 

 

It's just not that simple. People in this thread keep saying it is without any concept of what the day to day is actually like. The post that said after 20 years they expect all games to have at least 10 paid developers on staff - that's just one of many shining examples of commenters having no clue. Someone else said it wasn't being compared to other games when I saw at least 3 other games mentioned, plus WU. These are not comparisons that work in this situation. 

 

How long did we wait for bridges?

How long did we wait for multi-floor buildings? 

 

You guys are complaining about stuff announced in 2020 or 2021 that we don't have - it's just not that simple. It's antique code, with volunteers, in a game that is niche at best. Even AAA games have issues with players vs. content. Players will devour content and then complain that there's no content. 

 

This isn't to say that there are not things wrong (I've made lots of posts myself over the issues I have with holy sites, treasure maps, and cartography, to name a few) or that the game is perfect. It's not. I do think that expectations from most players in this thread do not match the actual situation, and in some instances are calling for unreasonable requests. QoL stuff has been worked on, we've been getting updates. Yes, they're not your definition of content - but with limited time, and limited resources, that's what we've been given. In a game like this, I would expect a lack of content because QoL changes are being pushed. In a perfect world, sure we'd get it all. That's just not a reasonable or realistic request. 

 

It's also OK to have issues with all of it but there's also a way to word it so that you're not just making unreasonable demands from an already taxed team just trying to do their best within the limitations they're given. 

 

 

[Locath 533]

3 minutes ago, Stargrace said:

<snip>

I completely agree. Not everything can be changed easily or at all. 

We aren't asking for the impossible though.

Transparency in communication would be a good start. It costs nothing. It can help making the right call on some of the planned features based on reactions to the announcement rather than reactions to the (enabled for everyone by default initially) head bob for example. If this was announced in pipeline, within first 5 comments the "please don't enable it by default/give us an option to turn it off" response would appear and there wouldn't be 6 posts and 2 days of slagging the devs in GL because of it. That's all that's needed.

 

If we saw what the plans are, we would be more inclined to stick to being online more than just to check up on the animals. We would discuss the planned changes or additions ahead of time and effectively provide feedback which could save a lot of ranting after deploying the change. Less rage-quitting because "the pickaxe i paid €100 for years ago is now effectively useless" and such.

 

People are throwing ideas about what they would like added, yes. 

People aren't saying "do this or else". 

Can we please get back on topic?

 

(this part is not directed at you, Star)

Can we stop complaining about people complaining? 

Can we instead work on making changes which will make people not complain, en masse, about the same issue, for years?

[Archaed 2,282]

2 hours ago, Dredsol said:

Nah, you pay for the NEXT 30 days not the previous 30 days.

 

If you buy a game outright, you pay for what is there.

 

On the other hand, the subscription model is to pay for the continued development and support of a game.

 

An mmo represents a time investment. 

 

Players have a stake in whether these games survive because if it fails we can't keep playing single player like a game you buy outright.

Correction, you pay ahead for what is currently there. 

 

So if you like what is currently in the game, you pay ahead for the 30 days. You don't pay ahead for what MIGHT come in that 30 days.