GV and Freedom

[Aeris 3,764]

Xandra: Okay, since you seem to be so concerned about the long time GVers I have a statement for you:

1. Long time GVers will never pay for themselves if they like what they get on GV and won't get on Freedom/Wild and

2. GV does not display the real Wurm.

None of those two are desirable for the game. Why should the game support this Xandra? I'm sure they're great people, but they don't add anything to the game and the GV server does more bad than good when displaying a game completely different from what you get on purchase.

You make it sound as if all the Freedom players are both egocentric and egoistic and don't know how to share the shovel in the sandpit. I can, from experience, tell that there are alot of helpful people on Freedom that aren't out to make new players into slaves. I can't figure out why you scare GV people by saying such things, but I suppose you're scared of the changes or something.

In fact many players are already, from what I've heard, in the works of making GV friendly shelters etc.

[Xandra 353]

Hi Spellcast,

thx for your detailed and educated reply!

There's some points I'd like to comment. A few possible misunderstandings among. Guess this will become a huge wall of text - those that cannot bear such, run! Now!

to start with, the monsters on freedom are not as bad as you try to make them out to be. [...]

Really? For sure, it's different; the first thing I had to learn when reaching Freedom was to travel with minimum weight. And to be quite careful - it's no fun to be chased by a croc far from the next road ...

There's a lot of mobs any skill capped players just cannot handle, you agree? And the ones that can be handled are usually killed fast so only the harder ones remain. What I have seen since I'm on Freedom: Some bears, some crocs, some scorpions, a lot of lava fiends & lava spiders, and some normal spiders. And 1 boar, 1 dog, and 1 roaming deer.

Might be that some cave bugs was among the animals met, ok. But you see? All but two animals I met was ways beyond the scope of a player just leaving the tutorial, even when attacked with a group.

Dog was tamed in a hurry, deer became meat in a few seconds, so still just crazy big critters roaming the land, for the newbie that comes after me, right? What a fun. Nothing to kill, just some invincible monsters that will kill the new player inevitably.

they have veins way above thier levels on GV as it is. there are utmost veins on GV that they mine all the time, so what.

Always thought on GV there was only the "poor" vein type that caps at QL 20? Never experienced such as on Freedom where there's iron veins that give only QL 1 ore to less skilled miners like me ("Acceptable", "Normal" and up)? Maybe this observation is wrong, ok.

As for non-prem slaves [...]

I know there's a whole lot of cool & nice ppl in Wurm, and these wouldn't change their habit in a quick switch. But there's other ppl, too, that love to shine as "mayor" or such (doesn't mean inevitably these wouldn't be cool & nice, too!). In an earlier post I talked about a scenario, grossly exaggerated for sure, I'll quote myself:

Freedom will become the new GV. It will take some time, it's larger, and there's quite some deeded areas. But what will the deed holders do? Increase their deeds to ridiculous sizes to keep at least a small area of nice nature in the vicinity? Bet a lot will leave for Epic as soon as it's available.

What will stay will be some slave-drivers that feel good commanding army's of minions. One or two premiums can support a whole lot of freebies , so that's what Freedom will become, sooner or later.

You see how this was meant? Not much use for skill capped "Freemiums" in a set up Freedom community, as you are confirming:

I'm not sure why people insist on believing that non-prem accts would make good slaves anyhow. with the exception of basic dirt moving and mining lump for creation, theres nothing a non-prem can do that would really save most people any time at all.

I agree with you here. Cannot imagine what a skill capped player would be able to do but simple basic work. But isn't it exactly this that would perfectly hit the common meaning of "slavery" as used in Wurm? Wouldn't it be exactly this that the "Freemiums" would need to do to get hand on these shiny enchanted high QL tools?

"You want this QL 45 woa35/ coc40 shovel? Then dig me 20 tons of dirt piles over here!"

about changes in game mechanics to accomodate non-prems.  there wont be any.

Good to hear - thank you for this information!

But this even fuels my concerns about the next point:

About being on a prem server reducing the need to go prem, to a point maybe.  they will have access to better tools, better houses (planned by prem players), enchants, etc etc.. however and this is a big point you are missing, they also have more incentive to prem up.

Cannot help but to disagree. Less decay, better tools - in what a way should this encourage more players to pay for Premium? They get ways more for free compared to today, right?

And most ppl on GV already know what is possible on the prem servers, they see the stone houses in ND, the big ships, and even occasionally bigger monsters during events.

I, and many others, purchased prem on jk-h precisely because we could see what other players were doing.

(bold by me)

Exactly this is what I think is a mistake many get caught in. It's not like "I and my friends" anymore, it's different today.

I came late, roughly in the time of the 4Chan invasion on GV. Ppl were different these days! When someone came wandering in our area, they usually asked where it'd be allowed to build, and they asked where they'd be allowed to chop trees. It was common sense these days, and even the Bro's (or most of them) behaved accordingly.

Today it's different on GV. They come, start to terraform 1 tile from your fences w/o even asking, chop any tree surrounding your place that isn't fenced, even fruit trees or bushes that you planted right next to your entrance. Then you log in and find your place changed to a wasteland.

They can, so they do. Trying to discuss this problem with them quickly leads to bickering and fights, so you better just wait until they're gone after a week, and replant then. GV chat is full of this, every day.

It's other people today. They're not like "You and me" anymore, a new generation has taken over. Quite a lot of cool ppl within still, but a huge bunch of certified morons, too. Times have changed, even if we don't want to recognize. 2010 isn't 2005 anymore.

I fail to see how non-prems coming to freedom adds pvp to the server.

This seems to be a misunderstanding, I wrote:

And quite some of the current Freedom population will be frustrated. Some will change to Epic, others might leave. Since there's quite some that do not want PvP in this game, their last resort is in danger now.

Meaning that the only non-PvP server (Freedom) is used for this. Epic will be PvP afaik, right? My concerns are that Freedom will take a hard hit, and so the non-PvP carebears (like me) might lose their refuge. See next point, too, plz.

the 4-chan invasion [...]

Another possible misunderstanding. Plz excuse, my English skills are far from good, tbh I'm not a native English speaker so I'll make mistakes sometimes, even if I try hard to avoid.

I had no problems ever with them Bro's - what I wanted to express was that there's always the possibility that large numbers of newcomers can flood the game. This can happen at every given moment, a game review in a gamer mag, a facebook hype, whatever.

Lemme try to explain my concern:

We have the Freedom server now with usually below 100 participants (at my gaming times). Add about the same number of GV population when these are put together.

You see, the paying customers of Freedom are already close to be a minority on "their own server".

Now add the results of a game review, or something similar. Maybe even one more wave from 4Chan*, or any other online community. Result? The only non-PvP server in game will get drowned.

This is why I'm strongly opposing the idea of merging Freedom & GV:

• In my picture it will have not much benefits, but a lot of potential back draws and risks.
  
• In my picture it will effectively hurt one part of the paying population (Freedom Premiums), sooner or later.
  
• And in my picture it will not have much influence on the rate of players starting to pay for Premium, rather will work diametrical.
  

A much better idea would be, IMHO, to make a new, dedicated "Freemium" server. A huge island like Freedom, that could be reached by boat/ portal by any Premiums (with the usual restrictions like they work for Wild -> Freedom travel), but that would effectively keep them Freemiums in their sandbox?

This way any mentioned benefits would be accomplished, and much dangers avoided:

• Premium players could travel there, maybe even live there, trade with them Freemiums and show up with all the glory a Premium account enables.
  
• The Freedom population would be out of danger to get overrun, and to lose what they're paying for.
  
• The newbies/ Freemiums could enjoy an environment tailored for them, without fear to get eaten over and over by trolls and crocs, with approbate tree growth and such benefits.
  
• And it would be possible to keep things like increased decay on this server, to create an incentive to really pay for premium, and not to stay in the free area endlessly.
  

One last comment: I'm sorry you feel that this is a curse for freedom, personally i am looking forward to having non-prems to talk to, show around, and help introduce to the wonderful game that is Wurm.

Thank you for participating in this discussion! I know, I always see the dark sides first, maybe it's because of my job - I have learned to always look for possible dangers & mistakes first. Even if you kill all & any of these before releasing, there still will be many not yet discovered ... Releasing with any dangers left open will only mean you'll have to face & repair these soon, plus the ones you forgot anyways, so better iron out all and any risks foreseeable at first. Or eat dirt later ;-)))

Intention of all of us is to add to the success of this game we love, right? This is why I felt obliged to point to things that I have recognized as shortcomings, even if I knew I'd receive bad vibes, like this one:

(Spellcast, "you" in the following explicitly doesn't mean you!)

Long time GVers will never pay for themselves if they like what they get on GV and won't get on Freedom/Wild

(not aimed at the particular author, just used as an example)

How often have I to emphasize that I'm a long time (relatively) GVer AND a paying Premium customer? And not just me, check this, you'll see that close to all have a Prem account ... It's quite old, there's tons more meanwhile. There's a vivid long timer scene on GV, that close to all have a Premium alt. These ppl are on GV to help getting new paying customers to Wurm, these ppl are spending time and effort to aid the game!

Is it really approbate to diss them in such a way? Wouldn't they have earned a right to be recognized in the change, due to their efforts for the game? No idea what Zephyr, just to name one, would think about. But he would lose the work of ages, in exchange to the great work he did on GV for years, in exchange for what he did to help the game.

He, and others like him (I'm far from this region, for sure, despite my best efforts ...), have actually spent a lot of time in the interest of the community, and the game. He was the one that kept me from leaving early back in the old days. Not only me, Zephyr alone created/ kept/ encouraged loads of todays paying customers - maybe one or the other of you remembers? And he is just one among a lot of others, I used his name because he is one of the most prominent ones.

There's more - have you ever experienced Telurius endlessly answering the same questions in the help channel on GV, with incredible patience and friendliness? Have you ever experienced Purkee that educates endless streams of newbies? Have you ever experienced what actually happens on GV? (there's a lot more ppl like these, plz excuse I cannot name every individual - but feel my respect, and my acknowledging of your work!)

Ask yourself: What have I done to add to the success of the game sitting on Wild or Freedom & skilling up?

Then, and only then, judge the GV long timers, please! We all could have easily just let rot our GV alt, not caring about the game at all. The time saved would have made our Premium chars ways better, right? Instead of making bazillions of sickles on GV I could have skilled myself, the Freedom Prem. Instead of answering the same questions day in day out, instead of healing hurt newbies, instead of providing loads of logs for free, instead of feeding the endless stream of starving ppl passing my house I could have worked on my fighting skill, right?

We did not. We took the challenge to keep an alt on GV, to defy the heavy decay there, to educate the newbies, to help to the success of the game. Now take away from me what I have build there in ages, right. Be sure I'll love it, I'm just greedy anyways.

Ask yourself again: What have I done to add to the success of the game sitting on Wild or Freedom & skilling up? We both are paying.

Call me greedy when I think this is not right.

Anyway, thank you all. Guess I have told what I felt was necessary to tell.

Have a good time, and might Fo bless you with insight! ;-)

Xandra

*) Since "4Chan" was mentioned this much here I feel obliged to clarify:

I never ever had any problems with them Bro's. They showed as nice ppl often, strange ppl sometimes, morons rarely. No difference to any other group of players.

There seem to be a group of them still on GV - Greetings, people of Brome!

[Maximilus 0]

I try to stay away from this but I really have to say one thing to you Xandra. And this is not the first time on this post, Stop frikking out, stop this nonsense. If any freebie wants the benefits you keep pointing out, then simple, go premium. Want to kill the "bigger" agroos?, premium up and raise the cap, there is nothing more to it. I wasted my time here telling you a gazillion jobs any cap skill player can do without the feel of been a slave and still you go on with this unnecessary rant. The "Picture" you are painting is 180 degrees far from what it is.

A much better idea would be, IMHO, to make a new, dedicated "Freemium" server. A huge island like Freedom, that could be reached by boat/ portal by any Premiums (with the usual restrictions like they work for Wild -> Freedom travel), but that would effectively keep them Freemiums in their sandbox?

They are been move with the premiums so they can see what they can do to promote them to go premium, which has been said over and over. GV was never a place to stay forever, which sadly is what became. The mistake is been corrected and is about time.

Stop making wall of text over and over about the same things, stop frikking out for nothing, stop trying to save what can not be save and above all, just stop.

I really didn't want to sound like a craphead but this is ROFL's game and he will do whatever he thinks is the best for the game. If people like it, they stay, if they don't, they leave. Pick one of those and move on, for Fo's sake.

[Tamorlane 381]

""A much better idea would be, IMHO, to make a new, dedicated "Freemium" server. A huge island like Freedom, that could be reached by boat/ portal by any Premiums (with the usual restrictions like they work for Wild -> Freedom travel), but that would effectively keep them Freemiums in their sandbox?""

[Maximilus 0]

""A much better idea would be, IMHO, to make a new, dedicated "Freemium" server. A huge island like Freedom, that could be reached by boat/ portal by any Premiums (with the usual restrictions like they work for Wild -> Freedom travel), but that would effectively keep them Freemiums in their sandbox?""

The odds of anyone laying out the capital for the annual hardware lease, remote server administration, and associated bandwidth required to create a server that no one will be paying for is probably pretty low.

I took that form Xandra's post as for some reason the laptop I'm using was not letting me quote. I agree 100% on this but this people go on and on about "how about me" on a free server that only brings expenses to the owner of the game (not counting those of you who actually pay to play on the premium servers of course).

People are really blowing this way out of proportion, really. There is nothing to it. Pick up what you have and move on. It's basically part of the game. Think of it as a huge Volcano just pop up in the middle of GV and all of you are been evacuate to a new continent due to the impending danger...

[Mystecore 0]

At this stage it's kinda moot to argue about it.

[Aeris 3,764]

The odds of anyone laying out the capital for the annual hardware lease, remote server administration, and associated bandwidth required to create a server that no one will be paying for is probably pretty low.

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

How often have I to emphasize that I'm a long time (relatively) GVer AND a paying Premium customer? And not just me, check this, you'll see that close to all have a Prem account ... It's quite old, there's tons more meanwhile. There's a vivid long timer scene on GV, that close to all have a Premium alt. These ppl are on GV to help getting new paying customers to Wurm, these ppl are spending time and effort to aid the game!

Is it really approbate to diss them in such a way? Wouldn't they have earned a right to be recognized in the change, due to their efforts for the game? No idea what Zephyr, just to name one, would think about. But he would lose the work of ages, in exchange to the great work he did on GV for years, in exchange for what he did to help the game.

He, and others like him (I'm far from this region, for sure, despite my best efforts ...), have actually spent a lot of time in the interest of the community, and the game. He was the one that kept me from leaving early back in the old days. Not only me, Zephyr alone created/ kept/ encouraged loads of todays paying customers - maybe one or the other of you remembers? And he is just one among a lot of others, I used his name because he is one of the most prominent ones.

There's more - have you ever experienced Telurius endlessly answering the same questions in the help channel on GV, with incredible patience and friendliness? Have you ever experienced Purkee that educates endless streams of newbies? Have you ever experienced what actually happens on GV? (there's a lot more ppl like these, plz excuse I cannot name every individual - but feel my respect, and my acknowledging of your work!)

Ask yourself: What have I done to add to the success of the game sitting on Wild or Freedom & skilling up?

Then, and only then, judge the GV long timers, please! We all could have easily just let rot our GV alt, not caring about the game at all. The time saved would have made our Premium chars ways better, right? Instead of making bazillions of sickles on GV I could have skilled myself, the Freedom Prem. Instead of answering the same questions day in day out, instead of healing hurt newbies, instead of providing loads of logs for free, instead of feeding the endless stream of starving ppl passing my house I could have worked on my fighting skill, right?

We did not. We took the challenge to keep an alt on GV, to defy the heavy decay there, to educate the newbies, to help to the success of the game. Now take away from me what I have build there in ages, right. Be sure I'll love it, I'm just greedy anyways.

Ask yourself again: What have I done to add to the success of the game sitting on Wild or Freedom & skilling up? We both are paying.

No one is discrediting the time and effort put in by people like Zephyr. Infact, the presence of these "helpers" only adds to the pile of reasons for integrating the GV community with Freedom. Why? Because it enables them to continue with helping new players even better; the premium environment makes assisting new guys with everything from tools to protection and gameplay tips much easier and effective. Concrete examples: Instead of giving Newguy1 a 20QL sickle, you can give him a 50QL one with WoA. Instead of giving him that 20QL log, you can hook him up with twenty 70QL ones. Instead of feeding a crowd of hungry non-prems a small batch of 20QL meals, you can feed them a barrel full of 50QL meals. Instead of having Newguy1 build his farm within existing fences, you can go over there and bash it for him to allow him to build however he wants. Instead of tutoring Newguy1 over PA chat, you can invite him to your village and guide him first-hand, with all the resources of your deed available, the list goes on. Not to mention, you can play the game as you desire on the same server.

The situation that exists on GV with the PA's is not unique. Long-time GV'ers are not the only ones able and willing to help new guys; Both Wild and Freedom are full of them. The old Homeservers has always had a significant number of villages with tradition to take non-prem newbies in straight from the starter town. No joke; on JKH-Gold2 there was actually competition between towns over newcomers. And yet again; You weren't aware of this because you didn't play prior to GV. The people in these villages have been doing the exact same things Zephyr and the others have been doing since the beginning of times, but this opportunity was stripped away when GV was introduced. Reinstating non-prems on Freedom will start this off again (as currently only a small number of premium-newbies exist for us to take care of). I'm arguing in favor of the integration because I'm one of these helpful people. Bringing the GV-helpers and the Freedom-helpers together will create an overwhelming amount of resource for newcomers to rely on for help and guidance, there is no question about it.

If the long-time GV helpers are as noble and unselfish as you describe them, then the migration to Freedom should be a very small concern. Being resourceful and helpful is both the goal and the reward. As I've said, players like you, me and Zephyr has existed since the beginning of Wurm and never has any one been granted any special privileges or leverage for being an exceptionally helpful player (other than good reputation), neither prior to or after GV's implementation.

[Hordern 2,177]

Is it really approbate to diss them in such a way? Wouldn't they have earned a right to be recognized in the change, due to their efforts for the game? No idea what Zephyr, just to name one, would think about. But he would lose the work of ages, in exchange to the great work he did on GV for years, in exchange for what he did to help the game.

Zephyr is a CM and has been well aware of the situation for a long time. His situation was also quite different for reasons that only he should disclose if he wishes to. Speaking of being recognised, I see no reason why his accomplishments currently listed in the wiki should ever be deleted.

There's more - have you ever experienced Telurius endlessly answering the same questions in the help channel on GV, with incredible patience and friendliness? Have you ever experienced Purkee that educates endless streams of newbies? Have you ever experienced what actually happens on GV? (there's a lot more ppl like these, plz excuse I cannot name every individual - but feel my respect, and my acknowledging of your work!)

Yes, and I've done it myself. I was a PA after 4 month on GV and I didn't go Premium for another 2 or 3. I became a CM for GV shortly after. I started playing wurm at the end of June last year. I went Premium in December for 2 months, then only premed up again 3 months ago. I have a LOT of game time on GV, and I still think it should go. I was very attached to my multicoloured house (Varigated Villa by GD). However, I couldn't be bothered to keep it repaired any more so gave it to a new player (along with the beds, forge, oven, BSB, FSB, huge tub, barrels, chest, loom and coffins). I have no regrets and feel quite liberated by having let it go.

Ask yourself: What have I done to add to the success of the game sitting on Wild or Freedom & skilling up? we both are paying.

You need this one answered? Yes, you're paying in time, and it's appreciated, but by playing on Wild I have funded the game, enabling the game to survive and for free players to be able to play for free (which they will still be able to do). If every player decided to 'pay' by being helpful on GV, where would the game be? It would not exist.

[Xsamuraizx 465]

There's more - have you ever experienced Telurius endlessly answering the same questions in the help channel on GV, with incredible patience and friendliness? Have you ever experienced Purkee that educates endless streams of newbies? Have you ever experienced what actually happens on GV? (there's a lot more ppl like these, plz excuse I cannot name every individual - but feel my respect, and my acknowledging of your work!)

Yes, and I've done it myself. I was a PA after 4 month on GV and I didn't go Premium for another 2 or 3. I became a CM for GV shortly after. I started playing wurm at the end of June last year. I went Premium in December for 2 months, then only premed up again 3 months ago. I have a LOT of game time on GV, and I still think it should go. I was very attached to my multicoloured house (Varigated Villa by GD). However, I couldn't be bothered to keep it repaired any more so gave it to a new player (along with the beds, forge, oven, BSB, FSB, huge tub, barrels, chest, loom and coffins). I have no regrets and feel quite liberated by having let it go.

Hordern is right. I played on GV since day one, Jan 2009. I went premium at Oct 2009 and at the same month I became a PA I believe, and here I am. I love GV, but it's not intended to have permanent residents.

I'm not sure what made you think the PA's work are being discredited, but this can also be done on Freedom as well if Rolf decides to keep the PA system. Telurius, Purkee, and other PAs will STILL give their help, regardless of which server.

Also, unless the PAs said it themselves that they wanted GV to stay because of their work or whatever, it's not wise to mention them and use them for your argument. Yes work is lost but bigger and better work can be done on the premium server.

[spellcast 983]

not going to reply to every point you brought up in your reply to me xandra, instead i'll just touch on a few points..

learning to move carefully in the wilderness is part of wurm, a part that has been lacking on GV because of the low animal count, and ties directly into the fact that GV is not a good demonstration of what playing wurm is actually like

the players who help on GV are wonderful, but there is so much more that can be done to help on a prem server, and moving to premium wont stop the helpers.

as elias said, on jk-h there were many many many chances to really help new players. I did a lot of that myself. i ran a work for tools program, where for a bit of minor work, a player could get a 20QL tool of his/her choice

-and by a bit i mean just that,

* mining 28 ores either from an iron vein that i provided (the amount it takes to fill 1 forge for smelting), or bringing me 20 pre-smelted lumps-

* making me 5 (finished or unfinished) heads of whatever tool they wanted

* bringing me 15 planks or shafts

all of the above was enough to get any 20Ql tool i could make.  for  bit more effort i would make 30 and 40QL tools for them.

often i would do on the fly trades as well, "i just died have no tools and need a hand"  reply - "come sow 30 field tiles for me (i provide the seeds) and i'll get you a couple of tools to start with"

to be honest the only reason i didnt do a lot to help players directly on GV is because it was too much of a pain to do anything there with the decay rates. to set up a place and actively help new players i had to give up too much time on my paid acct on freedom. ( i still ran a PA account , named Spelltest answering questions for the first year, before i ended up as GM Vali and my time to answer questions was diminished other duties)

As far as i know the PA system will continue onto freedom, channel and all, and there will be many more people able and willing to help out. people that have trouble running 2 clients or who only have limited time to play and as such didnt apply to be a PA even tho they liked helping people on the homeservers.

and yes, non-prems have access to a lot more on freedom, but again, they also have much greater exposure to the things they CANT do without premium skills. so yes, they do have more incentive to prem up, not less.

[Karys 77]

Ask yourself: What have I done to add to the success of the game sitting on Wild or Freedom & skilling up? we both are paying.

You need this one answered? Yes, you're paying in time, and it's appreciated, but by playing on Wild I have funded the game, enabling the game to survive and for free players to be able to play for free (which they will still be able to do). If every player decided to 'pay' by being helpful on GV, where would the game be? It would not exist.

Go back and reread Xandra's post, I think you missed something:

How often have I to emphasize that I'm a long time (relatively) GVer AND a paying Premium customer? And not just me, check this, you'll see that close to all have a Prem account ... It's quite old, there's tons more meanwhile. There's a vivid long timer scene on GV, that close to all have a Premium alt. These ppl are on GV to help getting new paying customers to Wurm, these ppl are spending time and effort to aid the game!

Xandra is talking about paying premium players who also keep a GV alt, these are people who are both funding the game and assisting new players at the same time.  They are not just "paying in time," but are paying with actual money the same as any other premium player.  They just also dedicate a portion of their time to helping newer players on the GV server.

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

Xandra is talking about paying premium players who also keep a GV alt, these are people who are both funding the game and assisting new players at the same time.  They are not just "paying in time," but are paying with actual money the same as any other premium player.  They just also dedicate a portion of their time to helping newer players on the GV server.

[Hordern 2,177]

Elias got it. It was late last night and I didn't reply (I'd written half a post) because I couldn't express my point clearly. Charity assistance is great, and every Wurm team member (and other players I'm sure) are very grateful to those players, but it is absurd to think that those players would rather spend time on an alt on GV helping players rather than playing on their main accounts, spending time improving their own deeds etc. whilst still helping new players. It's a win win situation for absolutely everyone. The only possible reasons I can see for complaints are those players on GV who will 'lose' stuff (but we've dealt with that one, there are very few of these players and they can stay anyway oif they want now.) and the prem players who don't want to be invaded - but again, notice that all premium players who have experienced it in the past are welcoming it. This should send a message to those premium players who have not experienced it and are concerned...

[vinius 1,496]

I'm sure the majority of griefers will be deterred by a 30 minute tutorial, and as a fail safe, GV will crash before Freedom does.

[ReaverKane 363]

Off-topic:

There's more - have you ever experienced Telurius endlessly answering the same questions in the help channel on GV, with incredible patience and friendliness? Have you ever experienced Purkee that educates endless streams of newbies? Have you ever experienced what actually happens on GV? (there's a lot more ppl like these, plz excuse I cannot name every individual - but feel my respect, and my acknowledging of your work!)

Yes, and I've done it myself. I was a PA after 4 month on GV and I didn't go Premium for another 2 or 3. I became a CM for GV shortly after. I started playing wurm at the end of June last year. I went Premium in December for 2 months, then only premed up again 3 months ago. I have a LOT of game time on GV, and I still think it should go. I was very attached to my multicoloured house (Varigated Villa by GD). However, I couldn't be bothered to keep it repaired any more so gave it to a new player (along with the beds, forge, oven, BSB, FSB, huge tub, barrels, chest, loom and coffins). I have no regrets and feel quite liberated by having let it go.

[Hordern 2,177]

Only 2 walls? When I handed it over it only had 5 walls left Glad to hear I was able to help even in my absence

[BobFudd 0]

I'm hoping someone can clear up a couple issues:

Another post in this forum strongly implied that free players who transfer from GV to Freedom will not be auto-resurrected when they die. Is this correct? So death of a character is essentially permanent?

And I assume that the GV process of "fasting" is not present on the Freedom server, so you actually need to eat or starve to death, correct?

[Elwood2 352]

I'm hoping someone can clear up a couple issues:

Another post in this forum strongly implied that free players who transfer from GV to Freedom will not be auto-resurrected when they die. Is this correct? So death of a character is essentially permanent?

And I assume that the GV process of "fasting" is not present on the Freedom server, so you actually need to eat or starve to death, correct?

as far as i know, the players that somehow happen to die on Freedom will likely be respawned at the Howl deed, south of Freedom market.

and as for fasting, thats false aswell, we have the same fasting system on freedom as far i can tell.

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

I'm hoping someone can clear up a couple issues:

Another post in this forum strongly implied that free players who transfer from GV to Freedom will not be auto-resurrected when they die. Is this correct? So death of a character is essentially permanent?

And I assume that the GV process of "fasting" is not present on the Freedom server, so you actually need to eat or starve to death, correct?

1. Can't say much about it, never heard of it. The only remotely related thing I've heard getting discussed (by players, not devs) is a suggestion on reinstating the perma-death for nonprem accounts with too little body strength (this was a method used in the past to discourage suicide alts).

2. You cannot starve to death. The food/nutrition system works exactly the same on all servers.

[kokin 0]

I am really glad to see the majority of Freedom players to agree upon injecting GV population into Freedom community.  

Personaly, I thought there would be much more complains and fears from you guys. Something like after opening JKH server for warfare. I am really glad you teach me different.

As i recall non-prems where always a good fit in the community back on JKH Gold 1 and JKH Gold 2. And since Freedom is coded much more anti-grief than both of them  -  non-prems should fit even better.

I dont remember correctly - when and why did GV appear? In the same Aftermath of Home-Openings as Freedom did?  To soothe the fears of the new 'forced' Freedom players? To lessen their stresses?

If as such, and being not very sussesful as tutorial server - GV's legitimacy is over!

Regardless of all roads and tunnels and penned livestock. The grazy people who are doing it on GV for months can do the same on Freedom.  Sure enough they no longer can show off with this - but then, GV is not meant to be a place where you can bolster your ego for free.  ;D

Well its not for free - premium players do pay for it, not Rolf!

[Karys 77]

Elias got it. It was late last night and I didn't reply (I'd written half a post) because I couldn't express my point clearly. Charity assistance is great, and every Wurm team member (and other players I'm sure) are very grateful to those players, but it is absurd to think that those players would rather spend time on an alt on GV helping players rather than playing on their main accounts, spending time improving their own deeds etc. whilst still helping new players. It's a win win situation for absolutely everyone. The only possible reasons I can see for complaints are those players on GV who will 'lose' stuff (but we've dealt with that one, there are very few of these players and they can stay anyway oif they want now.) and the prem players who don't want to be invaded - but again, notice that all premium players who have experienced it in the past are welcoming it. This should send a message to those premium players who have not experienced it and are concerned...

You're missing my point.  I wasn't talking about whether it's better to help GVers on GV or Freedom:  you were deriding Xandra and claiming to be better for paying for the game, when Xandra is doing that as well.

You need this one answered? Yes, you're paying in time, and it's appreciated, but by playing on Wild I have funded the game, enabling the game to survive and for free players to be able to play for free (which they will still be able to do). If every player decided to 'pay' by being helpful on GV, where would the game be? It would not exist.

(boldface added for emphasis)

This comes across as a bit insulting and accusatory, by claiming Xandra is not paying for the game and that his actions would halt the game's existence, yet you fail to acknwoledge that in maintaining a premium alt, he is doing just the opposite, and is funding the game every bit as much as you.  Whether the assistance given to new players would be better on the GV server or the Freedom server is irrelevant to my point.

[Hordern 2,177]

Then I'm sorry my point was misconstrued. It was not supposed to be directed at Xandra personally. The disagreements in this thread have started from people wanting or not wanting Free players on Freedom and whether GV should continue existing. I was reacting from that context, not on an individual basis. As such, the argument that players on premium servers who do not have alts on GV [please note I have spent FAR more time on GV than Wild] and thus don't help out free players on GV were doing less for the survival of Wurm than those players who made a personal sacrifice as it were is not the case. I used personal pronouns in my response because points were made directly at me. I'm sure Xandra has probably put more actual money into Wurm than me.

We are talking across purposes and misunderstood where each was coming from, as such I would suggest we leave this topic alone from now on.

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

You're missing my point.  I wasn't talking about whether it's better to help GVers on GV or Freedom:  you were deriding Xandra and claiming to be better for paying for the game, when Xandra is doing that as well.

Even if Hordern is wrong, his reaction is founded on Xandra doing basically the same thing in the his/her original post by implying that players who keep their mains on premium servers are not "contributing to the success of the game" because they aren't assisting newbies on GV when in fact the only thing preventing these players from doing so is the recognized impracticality of GV itself.

Ask yourself: What have I done to add to the success of the game sitting on Wild or Freedom & skilling up? we both are paying.

This sentence is no less provocative and insulting to Freedom/Wild players than any of the replies to it.