Posted March 14 It's looking great jay, can't wait for it to be implemented. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 (edited) 3 hours ago, jaytoo said: I'm not particularly a fan of reserves. People always seem to complain on the normal forum auctions when they are there especially if they are hidden. If someone can make a compelling case to implement them I'm interested in hearing it. But it will be difficult to change my opinion because someone's coins will be tied up in a bid for the duration of the auction, it seems unfair to me to not promise them the item if they win. Additionally I don't currently intend to allow players to cancel auctions with bids for the same reason. Also canceling an auction because someone you don't like has the lead bid is a discrimination I don't intend to allow. This would be very nice, i can look into it after the primary features are implemented. I don't do reserves. I just start my minimum bid at what I will accept to let the item go. Which, sadly, also leads to people complaining - spamming you in /tells until you block them and then they reply to your auction with their displeasure at asking more than they have dictated is the correct price. Which is another, related, thing about auctions: there should be no discussion during an auction: only bids. Questions can be via personal messages. Edited March 14 by Homestead fix typo 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 (edited) Like many auction sites, I presume the vast majority of bidding will be done on the day the auction ends - particularly the last few hours. That's potentially a lot of bidders all trying to access the same few items in a short space of time. Sunday night is usually the target time for a lot of sellers hoping to net the biggest catch of bidders, and most set their auctions to start and end at this time to get the most exposure. Peak ending times can generate the highest bids, but bidders can't bid on everything at once, and so a lot of less popular items ending at these times will fail to sell. You might need to use bookable 'time slots' to limit the amount of auctions set to end at exactly the same time. Perhaps you could charge lower fees for auctions ending at off peak times. The system could create a pre-generated 'fast short list' of Items Ending Soon (in the next few hours), so that it doesn't have to trawl up all the items in the database each time a player searches or refreshes just to see the latest top bids. Remember that watching the last minute auction bidding is entertainment for many people who don't bid as well as those who actually bid. Other fast short lists could include New Items Listed Today and Today's Hot Picks (popular items getting lots of bids) - these small fast short lists could be generated when the server is not busy, and provide a fast lookup for casual visitors. Fast short lists could be generated for the most popular categories of items searched - e.g CoC Tools if that proves to be popular. If a player wants to expand these short lists in order to see all items available in the database, they can, but they must know it may take longer to bring up all the items at peak times. Edited March 14 by Muse 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 (edited) In addition to an in-game notification when outbid, I think an additional email notification would be nice. Also, if possible, allowing people to bid through the online shop interface, in case they're at work or for any other reason is unable to keep up with the auction due to not having access to the game client. It would suck to lose an auction you really wanted to participate in because you don't have the means to boot up the game client at that specific time, for whatever reason. Edited March 14 by Kinganon 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 34 minutes ago, Muse said: Like many auction sites, I presume the vast majority of bidding will be done on the day the auction ends - particularly the last few hours. That's potentially a lot of bidders all trying to access the same few items in a short space of time. Sunday night is usually the target time for a lot of sellers hoping to net the biggest catch of bidders, and most set their auctions to start and end at this time to get the most exposure. Peak ending times can generate the highest bids, but bidders can't bid on everything at once, and so a lot of less popular items ending at these times will fail to sell. You might need to use bookable 'time slots' to limit the amount of auctions set to end at exactly the same time. Perhaps you could charge lower fees for auctions ending at off peak times. The system could create a pre-generated 'fast short list' of Items Ending Soon (in the next few hours), so that it doesn't have to trawl up all the items in the database each time a player searches or refreshes just to see the latest top bids. Remember that watching the last minute auction bidding is entertainment for many people who don't bid as well as those who actually bid. Other fast short lists could include New Items Listed Today and Today's Hot Picks (popular items getting lots of bids) - these small fast short lists could be generated when the server is not busy, and provide a fast lookup for casual visitors. Fast short lists could be generated for the most popular categories of items searched - e.g CoC Tools if that proves to be popular. If a player wants to expand these short lists in order to see all items available in the database, they can, but they must know it may take longer to bring up all the items at peak times. I'll do my best to optimize the interface but I think i'm just going to have to wing it for the most part. Since we don't have any way to know how large the load will be in peak times i'm planning to just put in a fairly simple search and wait. Should the performance be slower i'll bring more effort into slotting people into off peak hours. Items ending soon isn't something I had thought of though and that sounds like a great filter for launch. New items was going to be the default search I think already. I don't currently plan to have a way to do hot picks unfortunately as i don't plan on storing bid history. Enchantments are going to be rough unfortunately. More investigation will be needed but due to how that data is stored it is not easy to scan quickly and may not have much in the way of filtering on initial release. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 18 minutes ago, Kinganon said: In addition to an in-game notification when outbid, I think an additional email notification would be nice. Also, if possible, allowing people to bid through the online shop interface, in case they're at work or for any other reason is unable to keep up with the auction due to not having access to the game client. It would suck to lose an auction you really wanted to participate in because you don't have the means to boot up the game client at that specific time, for whatever reason. Lack of offline access is a very real downside in my mind. I would love to integrate this in some way, however that is a massive stretch goal. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 (edited) 46 minutes ago, jaytoo said: Lack of offline access is a very real downside in my mind. I would love to integrate this in some way, however that is a massive stretch goal. Maybe it can be something simple. For example, if you are adding an auction button so users can access the auction house, you could have an overlay on the button that is a *star on the button to indicate that you have a notification or a mini 1 or something. It could even be a notification symbol at the top bar kinda like the affinity food symbols. [AH] indicating you have a 'change' in something within the auction house. This notification could clear if the user clicks on the auction. Something minimal and not annoying. I don't think it should be something like when you receive an in-game mail because if you are not paying attention to your event window or your screen, you could miss the message. I understand this is a QoL request. Edited March 14 by Kierkegaard 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, jaytoo said: Enchantments are going to be rough unfortunately. More investigation will be needed but due to how that data is stored it is not easy to scan quickly Currently, sellers with market stalls have to rename their enchanted items with the cast type, cast power and runes - it is duplication of effort, because there is the mouseover to see the enchantments, but it makes it much quicker and easier for buyers to sort the items on the merchant in the client before choosing. I particularly liked the way the completed archaeology reports have been handled with 'Located' or 'Complete' in brackets after the name, and rare caskets in a similar way with the server name in brackets after the item name. It now seems easy for the client to sort these alphabetically by name on merchants and in inventory. Perhaps item enchantments could be added to the item name in brackets in this way, making them at least sortable by the client in the AH window using just the brackets, until such time as enchantments have their own filters in the AH interface. Edited March 14 by Muse 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 2 hours ago, Ame said: Could the name be "Market house" Trading Post! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 (edited) I wonder if the system could slow some of its functions (such as searching for new auctions, placing new auctions) artificially when it is clearly in the process of getting overloaded with the number of participants reaching high numbers so that it doesn't actually get overloaded and slown down as a whole. If you can directly access the auctions where you've placed bid directly under a seperate category, the slowing down of the search for new auctions would not impede you from competing on your ongoing bids. It could also shut down some of its functions temporarily such as putting new bid and nobid auctions when it is getting overloaded, with a polite statement saying the system is being overloaded and will return these functions as soon as possible. Non-essential functions (those which wouldn't create any unfair situations due being shut down) could be shut down temporarily so the essential functions can go on more smoothly during an overload. Edited March 14 by Simyaci Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 On 3/11/2024 at 6:00 PM, Vorticella said: Since portals between starter towns are in development, what about adding a teleport from our deeds to the starter towns and back too? Some will automatically react negatively to this idea, but I really think it's worth considering. It could be a craftable structure or even just an action taken at the deed token. Only useable by citizens of the deed to go to that server's starter town and back again. This way the auction house can be an in-world thing that is easily accessible to anyone with a deed regardless of location. It would naturally add more activity to the starter towns, might help revive markets in those areas and increase the chance of new players seeing other people around when they first enter the server. @jaytooIn case this comment got lost in the discussion about fees, I'm very curious to know if you'd be willing to consider this. If the teleport was attached to the deed token it would be even more convenient and accessible than mailboxes since everyone with a deed automatically has one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 (edited) 12 hours ago, jaytoo said: I wanna take a moment to say that I appreciate the discussion and time everyone here is contributing to this effort. I try to make each of my larger features an open discussion and the community here never fails to deliver valuable feedback which lead to design improvements. Thank you all for helping Thank you for the opportunity to discuss and for allowing us to provide feedback. Would it be possible for the team to share UI wireframes of the Auction house for community feedback? Edited March 14 by Kian 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 I understand the desire to see the UI but to be honest there are so many variables that it's not going to be something I can even mock up. The wurm UI is extremely old and many of the elements that are there were invented as a first in their class. Because of that I'll likely have make attempts to invent/reinvent new elements as I go that we're used to seeing everywhere in modern UI. When some of that process is completed i'll have a better idea of what it may finally look like. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 15 17 hours ago, Vorticella said: @jaytooIn case this comment got lost in the discussion about fees, I'm very curious to know if you'd be willing to consider this. If the teleport was attached to the deed token it would be even more convenient and accessible than mailboxes since everyone with a deed automatically has one. Unfortunately I don't think we can depend on features that aren't released Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 15 33 minutes ago, jaytoo said: Unfortunately I don't think we can depend on features that aren't released Couldn’t it work the same as the village teleport or being summoned by a priest, or the karma home? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 15 Whatever happens, it better be tested THOROUGHLY, and on the live test server. Seen far too many games with far too many AH shenanigans. Sadly AAA titles included... Diablo III, New World, etc. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25 (edited) I think the auction house should be accessible only via a special "auctioneer" NPC that you buy from a trader as a contract for around 2 silver, then place in the world for anyone to use, and not a mailbox. I'd also get rid of a buyout option and make it bidding only. You want to outright buy stuff? Use merchants. I'd also make all auctions anonymous so that you can't harass or troll sellers. And as someone mentioned, listing items on the AH should be restricted to premium only to avoid abuse. Edited March 25 by atazs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 The Auction House needs to be something that is built by players, and found at starter towns - not something pulled up on menu from anywhere, or a mailbox. You'd at least then have to travel to an Auction House to see all the things for sale. It has to convenience of showing you everything for sale but you still have to put some work in. But then why limit it to the buying/selling of goods. Why not include services? "I want a house built", "I want a priests services" ect. If these issues supposedly affect trading I see no reason it doesn't affect the trading of services too. No reason why these people should be left in the dark if we are saying that trading items is too obtuse. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 13 hours ago, Crumpet said: The Auction House needs to be something that is built by players I love this idea. A big one time (per starter town) event that brings the local community together to pool resources and get the auction house built. Those are the kind of experiences that are so unique to the MMORPG genre and are, in my opinion, underused. I'd go so far as to say that it should take a significant enough amount of resources that it might take a few months to get all of the auction houses built. Long enough to feel like a distinct period before we enter what will likely be a new era for the game. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 I agree with community projects in principal. So much that I implemented the rift colossus community projects. I also think building community infrastructure is very cool. The highway system in this game is something that is amazing to me and unique to wurm. That said we can't put access at the starter village unless we have portals from deeds to the starter village and that isn't planned right now. Players who live far from the starters would not have equal access to the auctions and that would cause alt parking at the starters, etc. Equal access is important. Which is why we have clung to the mailbox for this so far. To have an item in game which operates the auction house is fairly important to keep it immersive but it clearly has drawbacks to equal access. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 (edited) I still think its an easy path that emds up in a cul-de-sac to use the mailboxes. Mailboxes in this game just seems to be a long spiral of putting make-up on something that should have been re-written long ago. First off i think mailboxes should be tweaked in a few ways to be better at what they do today. 4 different versions, need enchanting, enchamts doesnt stack, enchants cant be dispelled, need runes for some items, no log because of wierd system, rift shop. And now we want to add a market to them? I understand that its a very tempting path, as its fairly easy. The mailboxes already send stuff. Im just also very convinced that you have the opportunity to really kill many birds with one stone here; 1. Fix mailboxes (finally) to be more convenient. 2. Include history of trades. 3. Add a new way of trading (market place). 4. Fix merchants to be something else than storage alts (no offense to all those nice markets, but are they really doing their purpose?). A fairly simple new structure that requires a market stall, a merchant and mailbox, that turns into a market place. Or simply just remove mailboxes and rewrite the merchant to cover both auction house and mailbox function. Edited March 26 by Nordlys Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 (edited) 3 hours ago, jaytoo said: That said we can't put access at the starter village unless we have portals from deeds to the starter village and that isn't planned right now. Players who live far from the starters would not have equal access to the auctions and that would cause alt parking at the starters, etc. Why can't you add an action to settlement tokens that lets you travel between starter town and your own deed, which works just like a priest summon/karma home? That seems (to an outsider) like the most straightforward and accessible solution. That kind of teleport mechanic is in the game already, and everyone with a deed would have access automatically. Edited March 26 by Vorticella 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 Location locked Auction House would mean 30+ free alts in local, nothing more. Each alt would login, say hi and do its business in the auction house for a few minutes, then logout to be replaced by another free alt logging in to do the same. Some of the free alts would be let online just to check the auction house frequently. It would be clunky for no reason while possibly lagging the server. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
