Resource Nodes Public Testing

[Arronicus 642]

3 hours ago, Gwiz said:

 

Back on-topic:

 

This would depend on your definition of "better". 

 

The graphics look nice and guess would be considered "better", but I don't play Wurm for the eye candy so that's a wash for me.

Having to roam further to get the resources I want - not better to me.

Having to roam further and click more to get comparable skill gain - not better to me.

Having to click on an item, as opposed to a tile - not better to me.

Having all the nodes with their blue outlines on mouseover lying all over the place - not better to me.

 

I will wait until final release with all the tweaks in place before I completely judge the new system, but thus far it's not really looking "better" in my opinion.

 

Agreed, it's subjective, but,

Graphics look nice and make more sense, no longer are there rocks and stuff that do nothing, now if you see it, you can interact with it. It's not just eyecandy, but even the eyecandy aspect is a big improvement. - better to me
You can now target the resources you want, so you're not filling up with as much random junk - better to me
Spotting interesting foragables and botany products while out and about is also a nice perk, as opposed to the incredibly boring 'everything is just hiding in the grass' system we have now - better to me

Having to click on an item instead of a tile, better to me
Having all the nodes with their blue outlines on mouseover lying all over the place - Uhhhhh, as opposed to the tile and vehicle and building and furniture and item and creature outlines everywhere  *all over wurm*? This one was a joke right?

I won't disagree that skillgain seems like it might be in a problematic place, and intend to do more of my own testing on that tonight, but the rest just seems like you'd rather be playing a calculator where you press +1 over and over, as opposed to roaming around a living world, interacting with things. 

[Gwiz 151]

Quote

Having all the nodes with their blue outlines on mouseover lying all over the place - Uhhhhh, as opposed to the tile and vehicle and building and furniture and item and creature outlines everywhere  *all over wurm*? This one was a joke right?

 

Actually no, I wasn't joking, My deed is located near a tundra mountain with lots of empty forest on the other sides of me. Anything outlined other than tiles is of interest to me, whether it's a creature, a random item, a beehive, etc.   With the new system I expect the landscape is going to look cluttered when I "explore" with the mouse pointer.

[Gwiz 151]

Quote

...but the rest just seems like you'd rather be playing a calculator where you press +1 over and over, as opposed to roaming around a living world, interacting with things. 

 

That might not be too far off the mark, to be honest. I find that type of gaming to be relaxing. That is why this game, with all of the grinding that is required, appealed to me in the first place.

[Arronicus 642]

3 hours ago, Gwiz said:

 

Actually no, I wasn't joking, My deed is located near a tundra mountain with lots of empty forest on the other sides of me. Anything outlined other than tiles is of interest to me, whether it's a creature, a random item, a beehive, etc.   With the new system I expect the landscape is going to look cluttered when I "explore" with the mouse pointer.

Alright, fair enough. 

[Wulfmaer 413]

16 hours ago, Lisimba said:

The new system has that by picking which nodes you harvest from though.

True you can pick which nodes you wish to collect from, but in the current system we can once we have enough skill select for foraging anything, vegetables, resources, or berries, and for botanize anything, herbs, resources, seeds or spices.

 

If we take, for example a briar patch node, it is a botanize node which gives "From most to least likely, you could find any of the following by botanizing here: Blueberries, handfuls of raspberries, rose flowers, bush sprouts, and branches." Which is a mix of bush items (forestry) and sprouts and branches (currently forage resource items). The other nodes are much the same, which is why I suggested the the two skill should be merged.

 

I'll repeat what I added about node regeneration, looking after 24 hours.

 

On live (Xanadu) after 24 hours 32 tiles can be foraged, and 31 botanized.

On test 2*thicket, and a nightshades (3 nodes) regenerated in one area, and an animal burrow, briar patch, mints, and roots and bulbs (4 nodes) in a second area.

 

Regarding skill gain, from memory the per item skill is not that different. What is different is that number of items within an area is vastly different. Which means that the opportunity for skill gain is vastly reduced. At my skill level (65ish forage/botanize) I am seeing around 125 skill tick opportunities with the current system, and only 24 with the new. At lower skill levels while the numbers are lower, the impact is probably bigger as it slows advancement.

[Damascus 381]

Was there not a plan to make all resources such as snow , trees and flowers and other  plant life gradual ?

Like how at the top of a mountain you have snow and as you come down it changes some to stone then starting of to small plants and on from there .

 

The new system should try to clump new plants and trees same way .

Large field with flowers or grass lands then coming near a forested area  with odd trees before it .

 

Costal area should be the same as for rocks to sea weed then kelp .

 

By the way sea weed should have a better chance at first to get clams then farther down the list .

 

As for graphics and the resource nodes people mentioned .

Look at the change they did with trees , new types and they had there own texture and colors , only to remove the texture sadly .

 

That was a good change all but the texture removal .

It did not make it harder to get wood or skill doing so .

 

This new system for resource nodes is is making it harder skill and gathering .

 

[Ostentatio 1,971]

22 hours ago, Gwiz said:

 

Actually no, I wasn't joking, My deed is located near a tundra mountain with lots of empty forest on the other sides of me. Anything outlined other than tiles is of interest to me, whether it's a creature, a random item, a beehive, etc.   With the new system I expect the landscape is going to look cluttered when I "explore" with the mouse pointer.

 

For what it's worth, resource nodes are only highlighted by the mouse cursor when you're within a few tiles of them. You won't see them highlighted from across a vast forest or field, or anything like that.

 

 

Regarding concerns about skill gain: We have a couple changes coming soon that should help with that. More specific notes will follow either today or tomorrow, along with those changes.

[Rockmodd 103]

11 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

 

For what it's worth, resource nodes are only highlighted by the mouse cursor when you're within a few tiles of them. You won't see them highlighted from across a vast forest or field, or anything like that.

 

 

 

 

I'm glad to hear this because I haven't foraged since I was a new player but I hunt for small creature all the time for missions.

[Arronicus 642]

6 hours ago, Ostentatio said:

Regarding concerns about skill gain: We have a couple changes coming soon that should help with that. More specific notes will follow either today or tomorrow, along with those changes.

 

Really looking forward to seeing what they are, good to see these concerns being addressed. I was going to do a bit of my own skillgain testing, but I'll hold off until those changes roll out

[Dellaca 75]

Would be superb if some resource node would give a small amount of water. Many times you are middle of the woods and notice your water is all gone. 

[Finnn 3,322]

that's what blessed-waterskin is for.. or carrying liquid container around, alternatively.. foraging used to give you all sort of berries, problem is.. to get any "juice" from fruits and berries -> you need fruit press, well, carrying one of these around is not practical, if there was a way to squish/juice fruits/veggies/berries with no tools...

[Hailiah 444]

Some sort of natural spring node, not to be confused with a source spring, or some sort of 'magical' water spring node credited to vynora, then you could have a water/water creature themed node structure, but still vanishes like the rest of the nodes.

Would have to limit the spawns tho, so you dont end up with loads in one area.

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Hailiah

[Lisimba 779]

2 minutes ago, Finnn said:

that's what blessed-waterskin is for.. or carrying liquid container around, alternatively.. foraging used to give you all sort of berries, problem is.. to get any "juice" from fruits and berries -> you need fruit press, well, carrying one of these around is not practical, if there was a way to squish/juice fruits/veggies/berries with no tools...

 

I remember climbing a mountain in my early Wurm days, and it turned out to be a far more difficult route than I anticipated. I had taken a water skin but that was not nearly enough. Fortunately it was winter, so I was able to gather snow and eat that to keep my water bar up, and I did reach the top and got back down safely, which felt like a great accomplishment at the time.

 

They could make it so eating berries and "wet" fruit like cucumbers or tomatoes also restores some thirst, like eating snowballs. Taking your own water should stay the better option, but being able to survive on foraged stuff is fun.

[Wulfmaer 413]

4 hours ago, Dellaca said:

Would be superb if some resource node would give a small amount of water. Many times you are middle of the woods and notice your water is all gone. 

 

3 hours ago, Hailiah said:

Some sort of natural spring node, not to be confused with a source spring, or some sort of 'magical' water spring node credited to vynora, then you could have a water/water creature themed node structure, but still vanishes like the rest of the nodes.

Would have to limit the spawns tho, so you dont end up with loads in one area.

 

 

Maybe such a natural spring node would only be able to appear on a water tile.

[Ostentatio 1,971]

Okay, so "tomorrow" became "Monday", but we've got a few improvements, mostly related to skill gain:

• Some more tweaks have been made to resource node spawning and despawning, in order to fix some minor bugs. These shouldn't impact resource node availability very much, but should cause resource nodes to be a bit more dense over time on tiles that get them more often, such as grass, and a bit less dense over time on tiles that don't, such as sand.
• Mineral debris nodes are slightly less common on rock now, to give rubble more of a fighting chance.
• Your current alcohol level will adjust the difficulty of gathering from resource nodes. This is accounted for in the difficulty estimate in the Lore command, and should make skill grinding more viable at higher skill without having to search for less common resource types.
• Glove enchantments now function for resource node gathering and the Pottery skill!
  • Enchantments cast on gloves such as Circle of Cunning, Wind of Ages, and runes will use their effects when gathering from resource nodes, creating clay items, or improving clay items with your hand.
  • The average enchantment level of both gloves is used.
  • The glove itself is still not being used as the "tool" for these actions, and only magical effects are taken into account. In other words, the rarity, material, quality level, and type of glove has no effect, and the glove will not take damage from use, but enchantments will decay from use.
  • Resource gathering quality runes will function for collecting resource node items, but will never give you higher quality items than the maximum you could get for your skill (currently, this maximum is your skill level plus 20% of the way toward 100QL, in both the new and old systems). At particularly high skill levels, this will result in you nearly always getting the maximum quality possible.
  • This functionality may or may not be expanded in the future to other actions that use your hand (or no tool), but for now, it is limited to resource nodes and Pottery creation/improvement.

[Arronicus 642]

1 minute ago, Ostentatio said:

•  
• Your current alcohol level will adjust the difficulty of gathering from resource nodes. This is accounted for in the difficulty estimate in the Lore command, and should make skill grinding more viable at higher skill without having to search for less common resource types.

This is really nice but...

 

2 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

Glove enchantments now function for resource node gathering and the Pottery skill!

• Enchantments cast on gloves such as Circle of Cunning, Wind of Ages, and runes will use their effects when gathering from resource nodes, creating clay items, or improving clay items with your hand.

 

Holy. Cow. Didn't realize it was christmas already.
 

[Ekcin 2,425]

Right a question: Will snowball gathering in winter be forced onto resource nodes too?

[Wulfmaer 413]

Glove enchant/runes having an effect is nice.

 

Looking at the two test (10x10) areas mentioned earlier, it looks as if the node have either despawned since Friday, or been wiped, and new nodes spawned. Now having:

In area 1 - wild grasses, vines, and wildflowers.

In area 2 - 2 x thicket, 3 x briar parch, wildflowers, 3 x mints, wild grasses, and nightshades.

 

It is noticeable that all these nodes are botanizing ones. It is also very noticeable that current forage items are now found by botanizing. This really does raise the question of why are there two skills.

 

The number of skill ticks I saw on test is a long way down to the number I am seeing with the current system. About a quarter of the ticks in total over those two 10x10 areas compared with a single 10x10 on live (11 vs 42).

 

 

[Hailiah 444]

7 hours ago, Ostentatio said:

 

• Glove enchantments now function for resource node gathering and the Pottery skill!
  • Enchantments cast on gloves such as Circle of Cunning, Wind of Ages, and runes will use their effects when gathering from resource nodes, creating clay items, or improving clay items with your hand.
  • The average enchantment level of both gloves is used.
  • The glove itself is still not being used as the "tool" for these actions, and only magical effects are taken into account. In other words, the rarity, material, quality level, and type of glove has no effect, and the glove will not take damage from use, but enchantments will decay from use.
  • Resource gathering quality runes will function for collecting resource node items, but will never give you higher quality items than the maximum you could get for your skill (currently, this maximum is your skill level plus 20% of the way toward 100QL, in both the new and old systems). At particularly high skill levels, this will result in you nearly always getting the maximum quality possible.
  • This functionality may or may not be expanded in the future to other actions that use your hand (or no tool), but for now, it is limited to resource nodes and Pottery creation/improvement.

 

How will this work with gloves made from Archaeology fragments and Magranon Fissure fragments ?

Will these possible enchants/runes now appear on them?

[Bekador 211]

Can someone test if timer lenght influences skill gain? So do you have dismiss WoA/Botd for skillgain?

[Finnn 3,322]

8 hours ago, Ostentatio said:

Okay, so "tomorrow" became "Monday", but we've got a few improvements, mostly related to skill gain:

• Some more tweaks have been made to resource node spawning and despawning, in order to fix some minor bugs. These shouldn't impact resource node availability very much, but should cause resource nodes to be a bit more dense over time on tiles that get them more often, such as grass, and a bit less dense over time on tiles that don't, such as sand.
• Mineral debris nodes are slightly less common on rock now, to give rubble more of a fighting chance.
• Your current alcohol level will adjust the difficulty of gathering from resource nodes. This is accounted for in the difficulty estimate in the Lore command, and should make skill grinding more viable at higher skill without having to search for less common resource types.
• Glove enchantments now function for resource node gathering and the Pottery skill!
  • Enchantments cast on gloves such as Circle of Cunning, Wind of Ages, and runes will use their effects when gathering from resource nodes, creating clay items, or improving clay items with your hand.
  • The average enchantment level of both gloves is used.
  • The glove itself is still not being used as the "tool" for these actions, and only magical effects are taken into account. In other words, the rarity, material, quality level, and type of glove has no effect, and the glove will not take damage from use, but enchantments will decay from use.
  • Resource gathering quality runes will function for collecting resource node items, but will never give you higher quality items than the maximum you could get for your skill (currently, this maximum is your skill level plus 20% of the way toward 100QL, in both the new and old systems). At particularly high skill levels, this will result in you nearly always getting the maximum quality possible.
  • This functionality may or may not be expanded in the future to other actions that use your hand (or no tool), but for now, it is limited to resource nodes and Pottery creation/improvement.

Wont this make 10x times easier to grind to 99-100 for/bot skills?

Well.. technically 2x/+ only.. but with the ability to fix difficulty, it's game over anyway.

From there this skill alone like archaeology is parasitic in nature and spawns variety of resources, of very, VERY easy to obtain high QL.

Seriously unbalanced.

[Arronicus 642]

15 minutes ago, Finnn said:

Wont this make 10x times easier to grind to 99-100 for/bot skills?

Well.. technically 2x/+ only.. but with the ability to fix difficulty, it's game over anyway.

 

Your ability to get skill ticks is dramatically lessened compared to what's currently in the game (Due to nodes and the quantity of ticks available from them being far less plentiful than 'forage/bot available tiles'). With the glove enchant, you're still going to be skilling a lot slower than you can right now. So... no?

Edited November 14, 2023 by Arronicus

[Wulfmaer 413]

A brief comparison using a new character on both test/live - so starting with 1.0 foraging skill.

 

With the new system:

foraging 10 nodes, I travelled 0.3km, got 26 items, and 1.733047 skill.

botanizing 10 nodes, I travelled 0.38km, got 28 items, and 2.127670 skill

 

With the current system:

To find 26 items with foraging, I travelled 0.24km and got 2.151703 skill, but it took 44 actions as not every action gave anything (in the same way not every tile could be foraged). The distance travelled includes a short distance over steppe to get to tiles that could be foraged.

To find 28 items with botanizing, I travelled 0.17km and got 2.028097 skill, taking 28 actions.

 

At the starting level, skill gain doesn't look that much different. But, there is a world of difference in the usefulness of the items found, with only a few vegetables from the botanizing nodes I found.

[Damascus 381]

6 hours ago, Wulfmaer said:

It is noticeable that all these nodes are botanizing ones. It is also very noticeable that current forage items are now found by botanizing. This really does raise the question of why are there two skills.

 

 

 

 

They should just make it one skill and call it harvesting .

But then people will have one less skill title for journal update that is easy enough to get ..

 

[Finnn 3,322]

5 hours ago, Arronicus said:

 

Your ability to get skill ticks is dramatically lessened compared to what's currently in the game (Due to nodes and the quantity of ticks available from them being far less plentiful than 'forage/bot available tiles'). With the glove enchant, you're still going to be skilling a lot slower than you can right now. So... no?

as I said.. it's best to have the two systems, not have new one replace the old superior system, new system's diluted loot and bigger variety provides a lot more junk, it's hard to focus loot for just something specific you need, there are still no indications what is for, what is bot action, no icon no interaction tool, players are bound to remember which type is what action type to use it or what I guess will be the standard for a long time is usb-flipping around.. try foraging the node, if it doesn't work try botanizing, oh repeat since it doesn't work and 1st action was far from the node to start it properly..

adding enchant doubles gains, adding difficulty spice-'r turns the skilling chase - game over, it's exceptionally dumb easy to get 90-99-100 skill in very very very short time with limited resources spent on the grind;

 

4 hours ago, Wulfmaer said:

A brief comparison using a new character on both test/live - so starting with 1.0 foraging skill.

 

With the new system:

foraging 10 nodes, I travelled 0.3km, got 26 items, and 1.733047 skill.

botanizing 10 nodes, I travelled 0.38km, got 28 items, and 2.127670 skill

 

With the current system:

To find 26 items with foraging, I travelled 0.24km and got 2.151703 skill, but it took 44 actions as not every action gave anything (in the same way not every tile could be foraged). The distance travelled includes a short distance over steppe to get to tiles that could be foraged.

To find 28 items with botanizing, I travelled 0.17km and got 2.028097 skill, taking 28 actions.

 

At the starting level, skill gain doesn't look that much different. But, there is a world of difference in the usefulness of the items found, with only a few vegetables from the botanizing nodes I found.

that will be the big negative side of the new system if it replaces old system, loot is set by the "biome" or tiles where it spawns, some places will be great, some wont be good for anything, pretty much how archaeology works, even if arch fixes itself after 10 years, for/bot new system wont improve with time at all