Rift Update Testing

[Vorticella 958]

1 hour ago, jaytoo said:

Shoulder pads are now repairable, new shoulder pads will be impable.

 

This is great news!

[Borstaskor 503]

5 hours ago, jaytoo said:

Shoulder pads are now repairable, new shoulder pads will be impable.

 

Hell yes, thank you!

 

Two questions..

1. By "new shoulder pads" - will there exist an old version and a new version of all the existing pads?

2. Is it possible to also get the rings impable? I wouldn't mind if jewelrysmithing was a bit more useful.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Borstaskor

[SweetSerenade 183]

I just hopped onto the PTR, noticed a few things

- Chain shoulder pads uses platesmithing skill, not sure if this is for ease of understanding, thematically chainsmithing makes the most sense but for ease keeping it the same as all the others makes sense

 

-No charge level on Artisan rings, not being able to tell how much charge they have is going to be incredibly tedious having to click them every hour to see if the option appears, not sure if they go off the old system either of skill ticks obtained, or from the hours charged jewelry

 

-Makes sense to add recharging to the other jewelry to maybe boost functionality a bit, eg, necklace of replenishment, the stealth ring, and Artisan necklace being rechargable would be great 

 

-Can the old artisan rings be converted to the new system too (same skill), would be nice to not have them becoming totally obsolete

 

-Can we tone down the intensity of the lights or have them go once the rift starts, looking at 3 giant white lights in every direction for an hour or more is a little nauseating

 

--"That would be very bad for your karma and is disallowed on this server." When I attempted to bash the colossuses, super nitpicky but would be nice to have something a little more thematic to the lore

Edited July 30, 2023 by SweetSerenade

[Jaz 2,666]

It would be nice to change the lighting when you enter the rift area - similar to the effect of the new holy sites, but I would even more prefer to make the area more dark and desaturated like it was on Jackal. That was really great and added a lot to the immersion.

[Cavemannn 162]

On 7/29/2023 at 6:30 PM, Jaz said:

Price at 1000 RP is way too low in my view, it is definitely a more powerful item than metallic liquid. I would bump it up to 2-3k at least.

+1

[jaytoo 687]

First your other post about pvp balance with faith requirements. This may be grumpy old man speaking but yall probably just gonna have to get along if you want the other colossus built. The leading group using the rifts as a gatekept source of rift mats and points for only them is not something I like in general.

 

3 hours ago, SweetSerenade said:

- Chain shoulder pads uses platesmithing skill, not sure if this is for ease of understanding, thematically chainsmithing makes the most sense but for ease keeping it the same as all the others makes sense

 

 

For chain pads I agree it's a little hard to place, it's both the only pad that would use chainsmithing and also one that the name clearly indicates it should. Sometimes the pads come out as a jewelry metal and will use jewelry smithing though as well.

 

3 hours ago, SweetSerenade said:

-No charge level on Artisan rings, not being able to tell how much charge they have is going to be incredibly tedious having to click them every hour to see if the option appears, not sure if they go off the old system either of skill ticks obtained, or from the hours charged jewelry

 

 

I agree I can try to add an examine function similar to socketed rings.

 

3 hours ago, SweetSerenade said:

-Makes sense to add recharging to the other jewelry to maybe boost functionality a bit, eg, necklace of replenishment, the stealth ring, and Artisan necklace being rechargable would be great 

 

 

I wasn't able to get to every item in this update but item rebalances take a long time to get approval on from the team and this branch is thousands of lines I need to merge the main branch into every time they make an update. The socketed ring specifically is a problem for that as it touches all rune application on everything. Due to that I'm going to get this feature set out and will continue to make small updates for other items and balance and w/e as we go along. Other items are just trash as well, some rings effects can only apply in pvp situations but are disabled there, etc. I intend to fix those things eventually.

 

3 hours ago, SweetSerenade said:

-Can the old artisan rings be converted to the new system too (same skill), would be nice to not have them becoming totally obsolete

 

 

This should already be the case. All of the old items "should" become the new version.

 

3 hours ago, SweetSerenade said:

-Can we tone down the intensity of the lights or have them go once the rift starts, looking at 3 giant white lights in every direction for an hour or more is a little nauseating

 

 

I"m gonna look at changing the ambient effects. Ost implemented some stuff for holy sites i'll try to steal. I'm not a client oriented developer so i'm not about to implement anything custom but stopping the global beams when the rift spawns enemies is an option.

 

3 hours ago, SweetSerenade said:

--"That would be very bad for your karma and is disallowed on this server." When I attempted to bash the colossuses, super nitpicky but would be nice to have something a little more thematic to the lore

Could be done but does require some custom conditionals on bashing and I try to avoid getting involved with doing stuff on such general actions.

[jaytoo 687]

2 hours ago, Jaz said:

It would be nice to change the lighting when you enter the rift area - similar to the effect of the new holy sites, but I would even more prefer to make the area more dark and desaturated like it was on Jackal. That was really great and added a lot to the immersion.

 

I'll look at stealing the holy site effects. If it's really difficult it might go outside of this release.

[jaytoo 687]

7 hours ago, Borstaskor said:

1. By "new shoulder pads" - will there exist an old version and a new version of all the existing pads?

 

None of the old effects will remain they will be converted to the new system. Old pads that exist before the update will mostly be able to be imped. However some of them do not have metal types or are Bone material. Those cannot be improved but will still be able to be repaired. Pads created after the update will have a usable material.

 

7 hours ago, Borstaskor said:

2. Is it possible to also get the rings impable? I wouldn't mind if jewelrysmithing was a bit more useful.

 

Probably possible. Old rings may suffer from similar issues as pads.

[jaytoo 687]

15 hours ago, Synjor said:

For the skull shoulder pad, would it be possible to also have it cut down on the "wind-up" time for dualwielding? Currently, offhand weapons don't attack until you're a good 20 seconds into combat, essentially making them deadweight for much of a fight. Any way this wind-up time could be reduced or completely removed while the pads are equipped? (this wouldn't effect pvp as shoulder pad effects are disabled on those servers)

Unfortunately getting this effect approved at all was a battle. Using heavy offhand weapons (looking at you mauls) becomes super overpowered on multiswing. Any additional buffs to it would be very hard to get approved. You'll be glad to know however that your extra swing also has a chance to not consume your swing. So on rare occasion you can find yourself doing some crazy combos.

[user 609]

I don't believe it was the intent with the Colossus feature, but along with the resources being cut in half could it possibly be made easier/quicker? I think it'd be nice to allow newer players "do their part" and work on the colossus. I am a big fan of recharging the jewelry, I love using them but they were a headache and didn't seem worth it before. Cool stuff.

[jaytoo 687]

I'd like to publicly recognize and thank @Synjor 

 

In addition to general testing he has already spent a lot of time manually testing the bracelet of inspiration even after I disabled the test MOI and he was able to grind out a real MOI which failed to rare a cart and consumed a bracelet. Logs from that allowed me to correct the issue and save someone a lot of trouble down the line.

 

I'm just a wurm player and a volunteer dev in my off hours trying to improve this mess of a game we love. The unfortunate reality is I just don't have time to run down every test path myself, so it means a lot for all of you to help out.

 

Thanks to everyone here.

[SweetSerenade 183]

Wanted to say Thank you Jaytoo for all the work you have done and the communication and time you have spent to explain your reasoning, it means a lot to be able to have an active discussion

[Synjor 466]

To add to the apparent importance of being able to imp the jewelry rewards, it seems artisan rings for example have different powers associated with their QL, which players have no control over. 

I have 3 rings each assigned to carpentry, with slightly varied QLs. 

82ql has a bonus of "Artisan Ring Skill Bonus of 0.08288839," 86ql "Artisan Ring Skill Bonus of 0.086913355," 87ql "Artisan Ring Skill Bonus of 0.08738547."

It seems unfair that I can receive a slightly less powerful ring for the same price. Either force the rings as 100ql to ensure it provides the .1 bonus or allow them to be imped.

Similarly, the power of shoulder pad effects is tied to their ql. So while i expect to receive "up to 15% chance per pad to not consume the off hand swing in a combat round," instead i get 12% on one pad, and 13% from another. This issue is offset some on shoulder pads as they're now impable.

 

One complaint i have regarding the Fo colossus bonus, is that in the event you've taken a large amount of small wounds from a caster or warmaster using ice/fire pillar, the Fo blessing heal tends to target an extremely small wound rather than your largest. This may end up frustrating people as they may be counting on a nice heal to come only to find Fo decided to cure their frostbitten toe rather than their gaping head wound.

 

Artisan rings and other rift jewelry don't actually count as jewelry when trying to enchant them with things like Nolo. I'm assuming this is intentional to force players to choose between enchants vs skill bonuses

 

The model for Socketed rings placed on the ground and when equipped on the character show an emerald on them, even when empty or with a different gem socketed. 

 

The god colossi disappeared as expected when the rift closed, however their associated beams did not. Relog might fix, haven't tried yet.

 

Gathering from rift nodes with 90 skill and 90ql blank tools averages 40ql mats, having access to some 90ql really is a great change. Thanks for that

 

New rift spawned, unfinished colossi spawned properly and can be seen from a good distance now. Mobs began spawning instantly and trees in the area weren't destroyed like they usually are. I assume this is just due to the test server?

Edited July 30, 2023 by Synjor

[jaytoo 687]

Starting to feel like i should either ql lock rewards to 70 and allow imping, or remove 10ql on recharge and allow imping. Jewelry smiths are weak in the market and this would help there.

[jaytoo 687]

1 hour ago, user said:

I don't believe it was the intent with the Colossus feature, but along with the resources being cut in half could it possibly be made easier/quicker? I think it'd be nice to allow newer players "do their part" and work on the colossus. I am a big fan of recharging the jewelry, I love using them but they were a headache and didn't seem worth it before. Cool stuff.

I could reduce difficulty based on faith or reduce parts required more. It would be really nice to allow newer players a place in the process. The issue i have is just the idea of one guy coming in 5 min after the beam shows up with 100 masonry and 95ql materials and slamming out the entire project in 30 min. I don't know how to reconcile with that.

[Finnn 3,322]

Why do we need to bid points on the building.. cant we build simple pillars instead and name them, and to be less relevant who builds them, I am personally not a fan of weekly build projects so they can be demolished in 48hours...

We could just get 2x more points for actually killing things, etc.. during the rift, why is "the preparation" half of the content now?

 

Whole new building seems like alien new feature, this used to be, come to the red beam at this hour, murder, burn hearts, gather resources, go home.

 

While woa clay is possible to speed up normal building of these colossuses.. this will be the easy points.. and always force some to trick other.. one will scoop easy points, other will suffer with bricks.. one is way easier to transport, other not at all; at the same time the materials to build a colossus SCREAM - bring a wagon with a lot, A LOT of materials, just to waste them.. every week.

These resources do not just respawn.. on top colossuses need quite high ql resources to not fail a lot.. 

 

ON TOP OF ALL THAT(imagine 72 font size) the amount of time to build 1 colossus exceeds the silly 30minutes to get through a full rift, it's an overkill and the buffs from the colossuses.. are silly small to be worth building.

As time, resource amount and value on the market for same resources and work investment this is just pointless.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Finnn

[Lisimba 779]

4 minutes ago, jaytoo said:

I could reduce difficulty based on faith or reduce parts required more. It would be really nice to allow newer players a place in the process. The issue i have is just the idea of one guy coming in 5 min after the beam shows up with 100 masonry and 95ql materials and slamming out the entire project in 30 min. I don't know how to reconcile with that.

 

Can you modify the difficulty based on how much someone has contributed to it already? Lore wise, something like the rift powers starting to actively work against you the more you work on the colossus. Mechanics wise, basically a stacking debuff. The first two dozen or whatever things you attach would basically be super easy so even a first day noob could get that done, and then it scales up to the point that your 100 masonry person can't really get past, say, 50% on their own. Your skills still matter because with high skills you can finish a considerably bigger part, but everybody can contribute and you *need* several people to finish the thing.

[Synjor 466]

2 minutes ago, Finnn said:

We could just get 2x more points for actually killing things, etc.. during the rift, why is "the preparation" half of the content now?

 

Whole new building seems like alien new feature, this used to be, come to the red beam at this hour, murder, burn hearts, gather resources, go home.

The prep isn't half the content. It's simply an additional way for players to get points if they can't handle the combat or for those who can't attend the actual rift due to time issues. 

 

You're more than welcome to still come to the red beam at this hour, murder, burn hearts, gather resources, go home.

[jaytoo 687]

11 minutes ago, Finnn said:

Why do we need to bid points on the building.. cant we build simple pillars instead and name them, and to be less relevant who builds them, I am personally not a fan of weekly build projects so they can be demolished in 48hours...

We could just get 2x more points for actually killing things, etc.. during the rift, why is "the preparation" half of the content now?

 

Many players can't attend most rifts due to schedules and will not travel to other servers. Due to this Even I find myself only able to attend a rift every couple months. We need to allow players a method to get points outside of these time constraints. Additionally, many players choose not to build fight skill for various reasons. My wife played for years without going over 20 fs for no strong reason other than lack of interest. After Jackal she changed her ways but It has become more apparent to me over time that these players need it be incorporated into this content.

 

Ostracizing players who just want to casually build has done us no favors over the years.

[jaytoo 687]

9 minutes ago, Lisimba said:

Can you modify the difficulty based on how much someone has contributed to it already? Lore wise, something like the rift powers starting to actively work against you the more you work on the colossus. Mechanics wise, basically a stacking debuff. The first two dozen or whatever things you attach would basically be super easy so even a first day noob could get that done, and then it scales up to the point that your 100 masonry person can't really get past, say, 50% on their own. Your skills still matter because with high skills you can finish a considerably bigger part, but everybody can contribute and you *need* several people to finish the thing.

 

You could but this punishes small servers where only a few people will show up. If the debuff only lasts 6 hours though there might be a path forward there as a compromise.

[Lisimba 779]

6 minutes ago, jaytoo said:

You could but this punishes small servers where only a few people will show up. If the debuff only lasts 6 hours though there might be a path forward there as a compromise.

 

Yeah, it could go down over time or time out.

 

You might also just cap how many percent someone can contribute, and raise that cap gradually as it gets closer to the start of the rift. So if you roll up five minutes after the beam shows up, you can only finish, say, 10% of the thing and that's it. Then over the next 36 hours that's gradually taken up by 2.5% per hour, which means no single toon can hog the entire thing up to 12 hours before rift start. This creates a window of a bit over a day where it's reasonably likely anyone can add at least something, and still makes it possible for one or two people to do it on their own as well, as long as they do so on the last day.

 

You might want to tune the numbers more, for example you can do a nonlinear percentage change or just keep it at 10% for the entire first 24 hours and then ramp up, based on how people make use of it.

[Finnn 3,322]

1 hour ago, jaytoo said:

 

Many players can't attend most rifts due to schedules and will not travel to other servers. Due to this Even I find myself only able to attend a rift every couple months. We need to allow players a method to get points outside of these time constraints. Additionally, many players choose not to build fight skill for various reasons. My wife played for years without going over 20 fs for no strong reason other than lack of interest. After Jackal she changed her ways but It has become more apparent to me over time that these players need it be incorporated into this content.

 

Ostracizing players who just want to casually build has done us no favors over the years.

What about spawning a tree or whatever plant .. that blooms or whatever... -> go to it in the 48 hours, chop a branch, and plant it somewhere, anywhere.. and have a cooldown like using coffee or w/e.. but different for a week, this planted branch grows and spawns a rift camp.. 

- player can gather only one, only the player planting such can see and fight the creatures spawned by such rift camp.. etc etc etc..

** limit alt or not or gathering per ip or w/e.. based on what is op and not to be possible to do if a player owns 40 alts, is it ok or not.. in the end it's prem char and only such can do rifts, if they do it anywhere.. should be ok, limit such spawns to 10 spawned at a time.. reset such mini personal sites etc if they aren't completed just like map/treasure chest/ hidden creatures, with option to reset and regain the spawn item or loss.. if the player cant complete it.. etc etc 

 

Simplification, instead of different mechanics, resources, building, etc, it's not doing a rift, it's colossus/masonry quest to get rift points with this implementation, idk.. it's a big difference this way.. there's no combat, just building and many players lack masonry skill, colossuses require high skill, also require high ql materials, materials at ql40 or below will force many action fails and this 2x-3x++++ the time to build a colossus.

 

Please consider involving players who have done such events with some form of NDAs. A lot better implementations could be done with several minds brainstorming alternatives. Just a suggestion.

 

-- edit

this used to be a violent alien bunny combat event, not a lego-colossus dyi builder

Edited July 30, 2023 by Finnn

[MordosKull 829]

Jaytoo, thanks for the diligent engagement. Good stuff that Wurm needs.

[Synjor 466]

1 hour ago, jaytoo said:

Starting to feel like i should either ql lock rewards to 70 and allow imping

This is the route I'd go. Allows people to purchase the reward and still use it to decent effect and have the option to have it imped with high ql seryll to get everything they can out of it.

Having to re-imp as well as pay to recharge would be a bit much imo, although I don't know what the cost to recharge actually is atm. How many rift points does it take for an artisan ring recharge?

Edited July 30, 2023 by Synjor

[Borstaskor 503]

4 hours ago, jaytoo said:

None of the old effects will remain they will be converted to the new system. Old pads that exist before the update will mostly be able to be imped. However some of them do not have metal types or are Bone material. Those cannot be improved but will still be able to be repaired. Pads created after the update will have a usable material.

 

 

Probably possible. Old rings may suffer from similar issues as pads.

 

My current human pads have no material. Human pads are LW on the test server. Will my current ones become leather or will they stay nomats and I'd have to buy a new pair?

Edited July 30, 2023 by Borstaskor