Mud / Log buildings Qol for new players

[Tpikol 1,057]

as any who has ever tried to help new players knows the first thing that makes players quit is how long making a basic house takes for new players. lets do for houses what Canoes will do for ships.

 

 add mud huts or log cabins or add both and let mud huts give masonry skill and log cabin give carpentry. make them need no skill to plan or build but have a small size limit (maybe 2x2) and make them use only a few actions and use basic materials for example 2 piles of dirt per wall for mud huts, 2 logs per wall for log cabins. make decay very high(or instant) if the player hasn't logged into the server for 30 days.

if possible make them use the old autoroof system all buildings had before multistory, so they cant be multistory and get a "free" roof instead.

 

 

[Cecci 1,612]

I thought that is what tents came in for.

[Locath 533]

Hey now! Veterans could enjoy those as well! Don't discriminate!

 

But on a serious note, building 1x1 structures over things on disbanded deeds to be able to pull them out of the ground is quite common. Having that possibility at the cost of 8 dirt would make some people very happy and some people very upset.

Not that building a wooden 1x1 for the same purpose is much of a challenge but i would walk past a 90ql lamp instead of wasting boards to pull it. If it was a matter of 2 dirt per wall for the same result, i would clean up the place.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Locath

[Tpikol 1,057]

41 minutes ago, Cecci said:

I thought that is what tents came in for.

tents do not act like buildings in any way. they are meant to be a spawn point you can move. and do not work at all for medium or long term storage.

 

37 minutes ago, Locath said:

building 1x1 structures over things on disbanded deeds to be able to pull them out of the ground is quite common. Having that possibility at the cost of 8 dirt would make some people very happy and some people very upset.

but like you said this happens all the time already so it couldn't be any worse in my opinion. 100% of deeds that disband right now are looted in the first few minutes, this wouldn't make it better but it cannot be any worse.

 

 

[Intensescorpio1025 73]

1 hour ago, Cecci said:

I thought that is what tents came in for.

you cant put in a bed (yes a bedroll that takes a lot of mats to make), cant put in a larder, or crates to keep food fresh or mats safe without a deed. Some players can't deed immediately but still wish to continue to gather materials for larger houses but need a safe place to be and work in the meantime. Can't physically be in the tent, safe from mobs, and craft without looking over shoulder constantly. Keeping food fresh is another very discouraging problem. While SMC, LMC, and larders are a simple solution for most of us, its hard to get ahold of for new (and non premium) players without help from another player. While that's also fine, some people want to hit the road hard and do everything themselves. Canoes and donkeys were a great start. Now we need simple beginner huts and looking into crude methods of storing food as well.

[Intensescorpio1025 73]

Log cabin style walls would be really cool, not just as a beginner style but also for some elegant wooden house ideas. Mud huts, structurally, cant be very big, so those would be a great simple small start for new players

[Schiann 995]

I appreciate the intent to make things a bit easier for new players, but I think we all know this would be used/abused by longtime players as an even easier way to stop deeds or pick up items. 

[Intensescorpio1025 73]

6 minutes ago, Schiann said:

I appreciate the intent to make things a bit easier for new players, but I think we all know this would be used/abused by longtime players as an even easier way to stop deeds or pick up items. 

everything will be abused in one way or another. Loopholes are  always found. Deeds blocked, people griefed, and pressured. Tensions arise. Its part of having territories. The biggest issue though is this is happening anyway. And even easier for veteran players with the mats and time to do it. So would it make any difference? Why not make it more appealing for new players? The devs are already working on that with canoes and donkeys

[Schiann 995]

5 hours ago, Intensescorpio1025 said:

you cant put in a bed (yes a bedroll that takes a lot of mats to make), cant put in a larder, or crates to keep food fresh or mats safe without a deed. 

 

Your items kept in your tent are safe without a deed.

 

If you're building crates before a shack, you've got your priorities mixed up.

 

If you're building a larder, I'd question why you don't already have a house or a village at your skill level.

[Intensescorpio1025 73]

13 hours ago, Schiann said:

 

Your items kept in your tent are safe without a deed.

 

If you're building crates before a shack, you've got your priorities mixed up.

 

If you're building a larder, I'd question why you don't already have a house or a village at your skill level.

so are you able to fit the mats for a whole house inside of a tent? i forgot that crates take so much more skill than a bsb does, but u cant put that in a tent either. same goes for a fsb. and as for a larder, it's usually a gift from someone which just goes to show that a new player has no means of keeping food fresh except making it daily until they are what, 60 in fine carpentry? putting a sandwich in a tent will have it near decayed away by morning. 

[Toeol 185]

+1 for Log Cabins, but I think they should require more than the 2 logs per wall  mentioned though, 

 

At present, a brand new player can plan a 1x1 house with 0 skill, increasing to 2x1 house with 3 skill, 

 

a 1x1 shack is 80 planks and 4 large nails, and I assume its the large nails that are the bigger stumbling block as they require a few steps that are not immediately accessible, like making the anvil/nails etc which require looking out for Iron, otherwise the other issue is the time it takes the player to make the planks, due to low skill and low ql tools. 

(not mentioning Timber framed walls due to grass and clay though of course they are the non-iron alternative)

 

given that all toons start with a hatchet and knife, perhaps make it so that each wall requires  6-10 logs, and 2 or so pegs, that way they get the concept of multi part construction without the pain of slowly making 80 planks at low skill. additionally, there should only be 2 wall types, "opening" and "wall"

 

I know weight limit will lengthen the process a bit when collecting logs, but i dont think players should be handed everything too easily.

 

Tents do serve there purpose as the initial branching point for players, to get established, allowing them to roam for the first few days of play to get themselves established, and are a nice way of storing starter things, and keeping valuables locked up, 

they can indeed fit all the parts of a house in it as long as its a 1x1 tile, 

they also get the newbie food and water buff, and are able to speak to NPCs to get this refilled, so i think the questions over that are moot, as are the questions about storing BSB's and FSBs, as if you are making those (which requires 25 planks and more iron than the house needs) then you are probably already able to make the normal house anyway, just need to switch priorities.

 

 

the other option, of course, is not to try and solo the first few days of the game and find their way to helpful villages to allow them to get established, but granted some prefer the solo life.

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Toeol

[Aeris 3,764]

18 hours ago, Schiann said:

I appreciate the intent to make things a bit easier for new players, but I think we all know this would be used/abused by longtime players as an even easier way to stop deeds or pick up items. 

 

These were my exact thoughts when reading the suggestion.

The suggestion itself doesn't offer actual newbies enough perks (or features they don't already have access to) to be worth running the risk of it being abused by experienced players.

[Tpikol 1,057]

30 minutes ago, Toeol said:

the other option, of course, is not to try and solo the first few days of the game and find their way to helpful villages to allow them to get established, but granted some prefer the solo life.

i wrote this suggestion not even really about players who want to do it all on their own on my own experience with many many players joining a deed, not wanting help to build their first house, building half a wall and qutting when they see how long that takes.

[Bearclaws 44]

+1

[antonslavick 137]

Log houses were recommended in a previous post.

 

[Idlamn 297]

We have tents tho...

[Miretta 1,415]

"crude" house consisting of crude walls and entrance, does not come with windows, would be easily made with logs, mixed grass and maybe clay?
more like a forest type quick shelter or like a more sturdy variant of a tent, enough to block hostile mobs movements.
Decays quickly, can't be build within perimeters(if that's possible?)

for bonuses besides easiness to make them, I would suggest something like reduced spoiling rate for foods inside (not quite as much as larder with snowballs, but maybe comparable to cave lesser spoilage?)
and an option to replace walls with wooden ones, instead of having to remove the walls (like reinforcing walls with planks and nails, similar to how rendering walls with clay works atm)



and about the concerns for griefing: for players who want to harm others in one way or another, they will always find a way. That's why we have rules and GMs to enforce them. Limiting the games possibilities because of the "bad eggs" will result in a game that no one wants to play, because of making everything as inconvinient and difficult as possible to be as least griefable as possible...

[Idlamn 297]

19 hours ago, Miretta said:

and about the concerns for griefing: for players who want to harm others in one way or another, they will always find a way. That's why we have rules and GMs to enforce them. Limiting the games possibilities because of the "bad eggs" will result in a game that no one wants to play, because of making everything as inconvinient and difficult as possible to be as least griefable as possible...

This is the case in Conan Exiles, to the point that bases looking like the ones in the trailers they provide with the DLCs got banned for land claim abuse (they were spread out like a village). This land claim abuse rule of conduct has been abused by many to destroy an enemy in PvP or simply get someone banned so they can be later looted. On a server I played it was a nightmare, people reduced their bases to little bunkers because they were afraid of getting wiped, and ultimately lost any desire to play because of the uncertainty of whether or not their progress will be wiped and the very restricted way you had to play to be safe.

It's better to have the game enforce things rather than offload everything to GMs. They will get bombarded with a ton of requests and will have little time to look into matters deeply. This isn't like banning someone off a Call of Duty server, people loose hundreds of hours of progress.

Important to mention Funcom offloaded the GM work to a third party. This is not the situation with Wurm. Still I think it's better to not overload GM work (as it is right now the response time is very fast and that's a big plus to the game) and overcomplicate rules for players.

 

Maybe the solution to griefing issues would be to move everyone to Epic where you can cata grief strctures teehee

 

[Miretta 1,415]

5 hours ago, Idlamn said:

This is the case in Conan Exiles, to the point that bases looking like the ones in the trailers they provide with the DLCs got banned for land claim abuse (they were spread out like a village). This land claim abuse rule of conduct has been abused by many to destroy an enemy in PvP or simply get someone banned so they can be later looted. On a server I played it was a nightmare, people reduced their bases to little bunkers because they were afraid of getting wiped, and ultimately lost any desire to play because of the uncertainty of whether or not their progress will be wiped and the very restricted way you had to play to be safe.

It's better to have the game enforce things rather than offload everything to GMs. They will get bombarded with a ton of requests and will have little time to look into matters deeply. This isn't like banning someone off a Call of Duty server, people loose hundreds of hours of progress.

Important to mention Funcom offloaded the GM work to a third party. This is not the situation with Wurm. Still I think it's better to not overload GM work (as it is right now the response time is very fast and that's a big plus to the game) and overcomplicate rules for players.

 

Maybe the solution to griefing issues would be to move everyone to Epic where you can cata grief strctures teehee

 

You are right of course, not everything should be offloaded to GMs, but it does need to be balanced how much a game restricts, especially in a game like wurm which is literally a sandbox game true to it's name.
But I also think, that while it's important to mention concerns of griefing within suggestions, because it IS a valid concern, I don't think it should be made the main deciding factor, of if a suggestion should be considered or not. Just one factor of many.