Xanadu Map v2.0

[MamaDarkness 880]

Hello, I have not done much with the map since setting it up and letting the editors working on it.  But there are some potential updates so I thought I would share some.  I have been discussing with a programmer who is working on an overhaul and things have progressed pretty well.  The bulk of the framework should hopefully be taking place next week and if that goes well it should go forward nicely.

 

What I wanted to do here is just give some basic concepts that have been discussed for it to date, and allow players to give their own feedback during the development process as well as make any feature requests.

 

Key Features:

• Google API Based


• Direct add to map from players (no forums post required)


• Editor Capabilities for editors to make corrections and approve player submissions.


• Admin capabilities to undo player edits if required similar to how wiki works.  


• Optional user/pass for deed owners to manage their own deed information, links, pictures, contact info, etc. etc.


• Properties can show on the deed for mailbox, recruiting, etc.


• Alliance groupings to indicate deeds of a particular alliance if desired.


• Alliance Custom layer.  Make your own annotations for your alliance!


• Public market special icons, varying deed icon sizes etc.


• Introduction of the Xanadu Global Positioning System (XGPS) featuring reference markers distributed on the server in game.  Use of the XGPS will not be a requirement to mark a deed location.  It may, however, be an incentive to use it by limiting some advanced customization functionality to XGPS listed deeds only.  The XGPS system currently envisions player field surveyors and more detailed information on this system I will leave out until it is further along.


• Layers to separate deeds/roads/resources/Region labels etc. and custom viewing.


• Possibility for detailed deed plan layouts tied to the marked deeds.  This would likely come at a later date.


• Possibly a market trade/auction system (this is only a concept currently.  It would be worked on after the map not concurrently)

 

So that is the bulk of the concept.  One of the base underlying ones is that players would be able to directly add their own deed to the map without having to post on a forum, waiting for an editor to update etc. etc.  For that to work it required the ability for editors to revert changes in case of errors or sabotage.  Also a system where edits can only go live if approved by an editor.  So an editor is mostly approving submissions, not actually creating the data.

 

And that's it for the moment.  If you have any features you think would help, please provide them. 

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

very nice upgrades and potentials..   thanks in advance for the hard work put into this.  sounds much more user friendly and interactive!

[solmark 546]

Sounds awesome. Nice work!

[Araninke 490]

I think it all sounds great, welcome improvements to the map system!

[Sizzle 184]

Will that programmer open source the util ? I'm also looking for an update on our Chaos version of the old app.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Sizzle

[MamaDarkness 880]

A very good question Sizzle!  I will talk to him tomorrow and find out.  We did talk about possibly adding other server maps but currently are just focused on Xanadu, and I'm not wanting to step on other server mapmakers toes either.

[Wurmhole 3,650]

One of my biggest concerns are accurate roads on the map, once EUs are allowed to edit directly. Your XGPS makes me wonder if it would be possible to use it as a tracker and then run all the major highways, recording the data to be drawn right onto the map.  That would also have a lot of exciting applications in alliance overlay maps.

 

Two huge thumbs up for map v2.0!

[Ayes 3,715]

Quite the ambitious and useful project MamaDarkness. If this functions as do Google maps for a search to somehow type in reference co-ordinates, it will be a very handy way to locate another's deed on this map. Also allowing players to place their deed location on their own will help to expedite this process considerably concerning submissions.

 

I will have to see it in operation but I am prepared to be amazed that you have accomplished such a mapping project for our fond little game hidden within the mists. Best wishes on its successful implementation.

 

Safe Travels

=Ayes=

[MamaDarkness 880]

Regarding roads the thought was to have XGPS referenced for the main ones and probably show them as a bolder or darker or other layer.  Somehow to separate them visibly.

 

And I forgot there will be a tool built into the map for helping with this.  It would track your movements (manual entry) so you can record the path from an existing xgps reference point.  (or just use for other purposes).  so you could enter in 3 west, 2 south, 5 west, 1 north, 3 west etc. and it will keep track of everything.  Elevation can be included too.

[MamaDarkness 880]

forgot another one, was going to see about linking in the twitter feed so when a deed disbands it would automatically archive the deed or disable it or grey it out or something.  (keep the data though not just delete it)

[angedemort 12]

As a suggestion, if there are floating names next to the markers on the map allow them to be moved slightly around the markers they are attached to to avoid some of the cluttering of names we have on the current map, perhaps a line that points to the marker they are associated with

[Wurmhole 3,650]

forgot another one, was going to see about linking in the twitter feed so when a deed disbands it would automatically archive the deed or disable it or grey it out or something.  (keep the data though not just delete it)

Fantastic.

[joedobo 1,187]

Could we please find another name other then XGPS? I"m guessing that these reference points won't actually accurately correlate to in game locations. 

 

 

The problem I have with that name is the anti-map crowd likes to slam technological ideas. For example GPS needs satellites, something Wurm doesn't have. It just sets up the map for people to try and undermined or insult it.

 

 

If we could come up with a name rooted in a magical themed position type system it would go better, imo.  For example:

 

Spirit Ley line system...SLS.  Here I'm playing around with the idea of a mythical force that mail spirits use.

 

Xanadu Leyline System...XLS

Edited January 10, 2015 by joedobo

[Cryptik 4]

Could we please find another name other then XGPS? I"m guessing that these reference points won't actually accurately correlate to in game locations. 

 

 

The problem I have with that name is the anti-map crowd likes to slam technological ideas. For example GPS needs satellites, something Wurm doesn't have. It just sets up the map for people to try and undermined or insult it.

 

 

If we could come up with a name rooted in a magical themed position type system it would go better, imo.  For example:

 

Spirit Ley line system...SLS.  Here I'm playing around with the idea of a mythical force that mail spirits use.

 

Xanadu Leyline System...XLS

 

Originally, the relative system was to be known as the XRPS -- Xanadu Relative Positioning System.  Mamadarkness came up with the name XGPS in order to avoid confusion over the name XRPS.  The main reference position of XRPS/XGPS is precisely known, allowing accurate placement on the map provided that the relative coordinates are correct, and assuming a constant 4m/tile and 0.1m/dirtslope.

 

 

 

Will that programmer open source the util ? I'm also looking for an update on our Chaos version of the old app.

 

The website will not be open-sourced due to the complexity and integration of the system into my database.  However, the data for the map will be publicly available as a JSON or XML based API.

 

 

One of my biggest concerns are accurate roads on the map, once EUs are allowed to edit directly. Your XGPS makes me wonder if it would be possible to use it as a tracker and then run all the major highways, recording the data to be drawn right onto the map.  That would also have a lot of exciting applications in alliance overlay maps.

 

Two huge thumbs up for map v2.0!

 

It is conceivable that this could be done, but Rolf's restriction on data mining from the client makes this a violation of the terms and conditions.  That is, unless Rolf either approves a utility like this, or comes up with an API for Wurm.

 

 

As a suggestion, if there are floating names next to the markers on the map allow them to be moved slightly around the markers they are attached to to avoid some of the cluttering of names we have on the current map, perhaps a line that points to the marker they are associated with

 

The system we have in place now shows only the largest deeds on the maximum zoom level, then progressively smaller deeds as you zoom in, virtually eliminating the clutter of deed names.  Of course, this system wouldn't work in all scenarios (i.e. latitudinal-aligned deeds), but it will work in most scenarios.  Of course, filtering will also reduce clutter by allowing you to show deeds with specific properties (i.e. water, altars, market, mailbox, etc)

 

 

Quite the ambitious and useful project MamaDarkness. If this functions as do Google maps for a search to somehow type in reference co-ordinates, it will be a very handy way to locate another's deed on this map. Also allowing players to place their deed location on their own will help to expedite this process considerably concerning submissions.

 

I will have to see it in operation but I am prepared to be amazed that you have accomplished such a mapping project for our fond little game hidden within the mists. Best wishes on its successful implementation.

 

Safe Travels

=Ayes=

 

A coordinate system is already in the works with XGPS, a simple two-letter identification for the server, then a measurement of the relative position of the coordinate from the XGPS master reference.  For example:

XAE04231N11325 would be the Xanadu master reference, 4,231 meters to the east, and 11,325 meters north.  Condensed for less precision, XAE042N113.  I will publish a document detailing the XGPS (or XRPS) system in the future for perusal.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Cryptik

[MamaDarkness 880]

As a suggestion, if there are floating names next to the markers on the map allow them to be moved slightly around the markers they are attached to to avoid some of the cluttering of names we have on the current map, perhaps a line that points to the marker they are associated with

 

This could happen and it was discussed between cryptic and myself already.  In the short term it was settled on using the layers to filter some as he described above but this could be added if needed too.  I'd rather it come later though and not in the initial release.  I do not want every requirement in the initial release or it will take too long to get a working system up.  Of course Cryptic may come up with a simple solution for it very quick and just throw it in as well but no promises.

[MamaDarkness 880]

I came up with xpgs since i kept mixing up xprs and xrps in design discussions.  XGPS seemed easier to remember but now that you mention it I wonder if it should even reference Xanadu at all.  The intent is to use it for xanadu but still have the capability of being server neutral overall.  So perhaps ' Wurm Positional System ' (WPS) or something related to wurm, not a specific server would fit better.  Suggestions are welcome.

[joedobo 1,187]

GPS is a term that everyone understands and it makes perfect sense why Mama preferred to use that.  While I personally have no problems with that term I also know that people (the anti-map crowd) will uses it as a basis for attacking the validity of maps.

 

 

Goodness I wish Wurm would give us a limited use tool for fetching specific locations. The information is already in the client. It shouldn't be that hard to add a tool to fetch it that has either long cool down or a high cost. 

 

I see now that the relative system will rely on characters doing tile counting ingame. I guess this is better than what we got now but it didn't' work out the last time it was tried (Artashes? FRAM or FRAP....something).

The only way this can legally work is if a Wurm official representative releases the exact coordinate of some reference point. If this is to be done I don't' see the difference in letting the players fetch the location for any spot. And of course that ability would limited considerably.

[MamaDarkness 880]

yes it would definitely rely on tile counting for the reference system, which is why it cannot be required to add a deed or the map would have very few listings.  But it will be visible what is referenced and what is not.  People may hate it but the reality is unless we make a reason for using it not many will bother.  And so it may be that certain advanced features will require your deed be on the reference system.  There is no defined line for this yet but we anticipate having many options to draw the line somewhere.  Stuff not really mentioned even yet here is deed/alliance forums, personal annotations, a message system etc.  If we put some of these more bonus features (not really map related) as the upgrade it would be an incentive to use the system and be referenced.  The other idea currently is to have defined player surveyors who would survey your deed location for you to make it easier if you choose to be referenced.  This can tie into other things later such as mapping your deed as well to show village maps of building layouts and other things.

[Ripsipiirakka 104]

We should get a proper map dump of Xanadu. It's not like it will spoil anything because we already have the map. Just with crap quality.

[MamaDarkness 880]

I had planned to ask again after these changes and if we still cannot get one possibly just a higher resolution of the current map that is in game to use.  Xanadu being much larger than other servers it's, well, plain horrible to view when zoomed in.  The resolution just isn't enough.

[rapidron 142]

There is a thread somewhere about what makes the game easier.  Look to me like you just decided to do it.  Thank you.

[joedobo 1,187]

I don't think this will make the game easier. There is nothing here that automates the process of figuring out where your toon is on the map. That has always been the troubling point.

 

The big deal here is they are letting more people do addition and alterations while keeping all those changes subject to revision control (undo/redo). This is what makes the wiki a success.

 

I hate to say it but the reference system won't' be used much. I can't think of 6 people who have somewhat successfully done tlie accuracy maps (I'm not counting the client hacking map makers). Its more an idealistic goal that may not be achievable.  Players will make mistakes in counting. Players will reference from other deed/roads and assuming that they are accurate instead of putting in the extra effort to count back to an official reference point. The sad truth is players are lazy and if we have to do lots of work to get coordinates may errors, errors that are both unintentional and intentional, will occur. Now, if we only had the option of fetching our (just your token as mayor, not anyone elses) token's location....

[Jaz 2,666]

Yeah current map "dump" is horrible just can't show actual terrain, where a plain to expect you can find impassable mountains. Missed last dragon on it so it would be a huge achievement to have a better dump of Xana...

Anyway your initiative is great!

[MamaDarkness 880]

it is a bit slowed due to RL issues in the way of coding, but still alive.

[Onyr 185]

Thank you for your efforts, MamaDarkness.  The current map is amazing already, and the updates you propose are astounding.

 

/hat tip