LiF Poll

[Ganken 60]

I decided to make a new thread on this to make a poll. The question is:

If LiF turns out to be just like Wurm (terreforming & building), but with mount and blade combat, less grindy skills, and a diff dev team, would you quit wurm and play LiF instead?

 

MAJOR EDIT:

 

You can now post here if you are leaving Wurm Online for LiF, so we can see who.

 

The list so far:

 

Arowhun

Cndo

Jackburton

Protunia

Touchmee

Madrocks

Zehive

Edited March 27, 2014 by Ganken

[lithi 77]

Hard to say without actually playing it, but if I imagine the described conditions, most likely yes.

[Alec 731]

Nope.

 

First it should have uncapped skills, then we could talk.

[Dairuka 888]

Life is Feudal is not the niche I'm looking for. It will be a spectacular Player versus Player game, and I have no doubts it will appeal to a large amount of people who are looking for a game like that.

 

However, with an ease of skill leveling, without a sense or semblance of security, and a strict permanency for mistakes (Deforestation) - I fear it won't appeal to me.

 

Life is Feudal is for people who are looking for a truly hardcore experience. It will appeal to people who want war as often as possible.

 

Carebears, Casuals and Ex-PvP Fanatics probably won't be welcome there.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Dairuka

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Poll has too few choices.  Why would I have to quit Wurm to play LiF?  Why would I not be able to play both?

[Kegan 3,926]

I really don't think anyone will ever be able to get close to what wurm offers there are a few with aspects of wurm but they all lack something. I have tried all the other sandbox games that have come along and i end up back here in a day or two. What i want to happen is wurm evolve even more and it is all the time so unless someone really blows it out of the water i am here and i truly don't think LIF will even come close to be honest. 

[fatboy 448]

Planet Explorers, is already going above and beyond most sandbox games abilities :-)

[Jasmyn 41]

Nope.

 

First it should have uncapped skills, then we could talk.

 

This.

[Mormo 353]

Why is this poll anonymous? It`s not rebellious enough to poll.

[Ganken 60]

50% said yes.

Then why is Rolf feeling so entitled? He could lose his job pretty fast, as this shows.

[Hussars 511]

Life is Feudal is not the niche I'm looking for. It will be a spectacular Player versus Player game, and I have no doubts it will appeal to a large amount of people who are looking for a game like that.

 

However, with an ease of skill leveling, without a sense or semblance of security, and a strict permanency for mistakes (Deforestation) - I fear it won't appeal to me.

 

Life is Feudal is for people who are looking for a truly hardcore experience. It will appeal to people who want war as often as possible.

 

Carebears, Casuals and Ex-PvP Fanatics probably won't be welcome there.

 

Not to sound like an ad for the game, but the dev team have said it will have rent-able (completely safe) housing in the major city at launch.  It requires RMT rent to be paid, but it is there.  Also personal claims are "mostly safe" (i.e. No stealing from your claim) as long as you are not part of a guild at war, or not under the territory for a "kingdom" that is.  As long as this is true, no one but those the "claim" owner allows to can use or change items on the claim.

 

It is a more "real world" view on PVP and fuedal land ownership, a lot like the old UO system with better enforcement, and even if a guild/kingdom wants your land, (using Wurm terms) if they deed over your enclosure, you have 24 hours to decide to move or make a deal with them before they can try to force you from that land.  Door, gates, etc.. don't just magically unlock, you'll be tagged as an outlaw within their territory, but you can attempt to fight them off if you choose to.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Hussars

[Pwent 113]

Why is this poll anonymous? It`s not rebellious enough to poll.

Someone got a 30 day forum ban for just posting some screenshots and a link to LiF, don't think anyone would dare to vote in a public poll.

[Audrel 2,223]

Looked at the media for it. Seems to me to be a knockoff of what I play now. I choose to play on Freedom but if I wanted a full loot open world free-pvp experience, there's a portal right over there. I have tested out a couple that are up and running and found that when the alpha and beta ended, there were no resets or wipes and the best land was gone before it even launched. I have a good spot here and don't have to eat woodscraps.

[Ganken 60]

Someone got a 30 day forum ban for just posting some screenshots and a link to LiF, don't think anyone would dare to vote in a public poll.

Protunia? Really?

[Dairuka 888]

Not to sound like an ad for the game, but the dev team have said it will have rent-able (completely safe) housing in the major city at launch.  It requires RMT rent to be paid, but it is there.  Also personal claims are "mostly safe" (i.e. No stealing from your claim) as long as you are not part of a guild at war, or not under the territory for a "kingdom" that is.  As long as this is true, no one but those the "claim" owner allows to can use or change items on the claim.

 

It is a more "real world" view on PVP and fuedal land ownership, a lot like the old UO system with better enforcement, and even if a guild/kingdom wants your land, (using Wurm terms) if they deed over your enclosure, you have 24 hours to decide to move or make a deal with them before they can try to force you from that land.  Door, gates, etc.. don't just magically unlock, you'll be tagged as an outlaw within their territory, but you can attempt to fight them off if you choose to.

 

Life is Feudal is not for me. The rhetoric you've chosen to use pretty much screams to me, "Come be fodder for our game!"

 

If I do decide to join LiF in the future, it will be because I desire to rejoin the Hardcore PvP scene. (Lord knows I'm not going back to Mortal Online. Eww.)

 

Please don't try to pass it off as a mixture - it's not. It doesn't play like one at all. I guarantee carebears will be the first ones driven off after they discover all of the fancy tricks you spoke of amount to, "You're just going to be forced off your land if you don't join a Kingdom where you'll be forced into PvP anyways. Otherwise you hide in the newbie zone where you can craft all day without a real sense of land ownership - or the ability to enjoy the terraforming."

 

In other-words. Every other sandbox PvP game.

 

The only reason Wurm is unique, is because it offers a sense of permanence and ownership for the majority who decided to carebear it up on Freedom or Epic's debuff protected Home Servers. LiF won't have that. Not until they decide to segregate the gameplay styles in a similar sense... but even then, easier to grind skills and deforestation remains a major issue for that style of gameplay.

 

LiF is a great PvP game. No doubt. It will overshadow Wurm in that regards. I might even decide to go PvP in it once it's been around for a while and people get established.

 

However, I will probably keep playing Wurm - simply because it's PvE is better, and seems to me as if it will always be better.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Dairuka

[Shrimpiie 3,665]

Someone got a 30 day forum ban for just posting some screenshots and a link to LiF, don't think anyone would dare to vote in a public poll.

There is more to the situation than you know, but this is incorrect.

[thenewcndo 528]

There is more to the situation than you know, but this is incorrect.

this is why moderation subsections should be open publicly

[Shrimpiie 3,665]

No, they really shouldn't be, but this is not the thread to talk about this.

[Ayes 3,715]

Wouldn't even think a moment of playing a game such as this whose focus is pvp. As Dairuka said it will appeal to those who want a sandbox game ruled by pvp. Some PvE players may try it out but my guess is that they will soon depart.

 

As for the original Ultima Online, those who played when it was a pure pvp game with only Felucca will remember the results when Trammel was introduced. The pvp portion on Felucca was reduced to an insignificant wasteland. An ugly one too with its environment. Only thing that boosted the population there was the ability to place housing, which I did and sold a few to those who could not afford the expense of a tiny placed spot on Trammel. Then they added that Japanese style server with much housing room and even fewer went to Felucca for pvp.

 

Basically the same evolution from pvp to the PvE preference has taken place in Wurm as well. Now Xyson has added a PvE server and I don't think it will take much imagination to predect the results there as well.

 

=Ayes=

[Hussars 511]

Life is Feudal is not for me. The rhetoric you've chosen to use pretty much screams to me, "Come be fodder for our game!"

 

If I do decide to join LiF in the future, it will be because I desire to rejoin the Hardcore PvP scene. (Lord knows I'm not going back to Mortal Online. Eww.)

 

Please don't try to pass it off as a mixture - it's not. It doesn't play like one at all. I guarantee carebears will be the first ones driven off after they discover all of the fancy tricks you spoke of amount to, "You're just going to be forced off your land if you don't join a Kingdom where you'll be forced into PvP anyways. Otherwise you hide in the newbie zone where you can craft all day without a real sense of land ownership - or the ability to enjoy the terraforming."

 

In other-words. Every other sandbox PvP game.

 

The only reason Wurm is unique, is because it offers a sense of permanence and ownership for the majority who decided to carebear it up on Freedom or Epic's debuff protected Home Servers. LiF won't have that. Not until they decide to segregate the gameplay styles in a similar sense... but even then, easier to grind skills and deforestation remains a major issue for that style of gameplay.

 

LiF is a great PvP game. No doubt. It will overshadow Wurm in that regards. I might even decide to go PvP in it once it's been around for a while and people get established.

 

However, I will probably keep playing Wurm - simply because it's PvE is better, and seems to me as if it will always be better.

 

[in the spirit of full disclosure, I am now in the LiF alpha - I was not at the time of my initial post in the other thread here]

 

*Looks at his own post history*

 

Uh.. You do realize that I'd be the last person to try and swing someone to a PVP server/game simply to be cannon fodder?  I may be an ass-hat at times, but I'm not vain enough to think I can (or should) try to sway someone's opinion on what they enjoy in a game.

 

I share a lot of the same concerns you have expressed with LiF (and have openly said as much in the other LiF thread as well as when talking directly with Bobik - Dev of LiF), and there is a lot of discussion around the topic on their forum (granted mostly being started by 1 or 2 people).  My reply was simply providing a counter point on a gross over-generalization.  I give the Dev team there the same guarded benefit of the doubt I give Rolf et. al.

 

So we've both expressed our opinion, I tried to offer a polite clarification on one of the points you used to support your comments, just like I do on other forums when people talk about Wurm using generalized assumptions.  No need to cast me in the light of trying to lead people astray with my "rhetoric".

 

No matter what anyone decides to play, as long as you enjoy the experience, I'd be truly surprised if any of us "jump ship" to only one game or the other.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Hussars

[MaurizioAM 919]

Someone got a 30 day forum ban for just posting some screenshots and a link to LiF, don't think anyone would dare to vote in a public poll.

Why not? its just a poll, its nothing else cept for what this forum section is for, simply talking.

[MaurizioAM 919]

Life is Feudal is not the niche I'm looking for. It will be a spectacular Player versus Player game, and I have no doubts it will appeal to a large amount of people who are looking for a game like that.

 

However, with an ease of skill leveling, without a sense or semblance of security, and a strict permanency for mistakes (Deforestation) - I fear it won't appeal to me.

 

Life is Feudal is for people who are looking for a truly hardcore experience. It will appeal to people who want war as often as possible.

 

Carebears, Casuals and Ex-PvP Fanatics probably won't be welcome there.

It will not ONLY be PVP. Most people seem to forget that in a game like Wurm on chaos and a game like LIF, there is a lot of team game play where carebears fit in quite well and are needed. If you for example came to chaos to my deed, i can 99% guaranty you that if you did not want to be involved with any combat at all i would be able to provide that for you. Leaving 1% room for error, like forgetting to have another twig set in a safe location and so on. Wurm Chaos as well as LIF both provide the ability to play as a carebear. The only difference is in LIF there will be less of a loss if you so happen to die, where in Wurm because of the lack of options in equipment and the value of such things even 1 death hurts.

[Dairuka 888]

It will not ONLY be PVP. Most people seem to forget that in a game like Wurm on chaos and a game like LIF, there is a lot of team game play where carebears fit in quite well and are needed. If you for example came to chaos to my deed, i can 99% guaranty you that if you did not want to be involved with any combat at all i would be able to provide that for you. Leaving 1% room for error, like forgetting to have another twig set in a safe location and so on. Wurm Chaos as well as LIF both provide the ability to play as a carebear.

 

You can do that in any PvP game. Mortal Online, Darkfall, Shadowbane, Meridian 59, Never Winter Nights '94. It's always been that way, so this is nothing new.

 

However, choosing to be a pure carebear in a game like LiF or any of the aforementioned - has and will guarantee you'll never be respected. Hatred of Carebears is the war-call of the PvP'er, it's the go-to insult.

 

Once claims, deeds, guilds, clans, cities, factions and kingdoms are established - You get the Mortal Online effect: Trade is minimized as everything is often required to be donated in-house, or provided by well established in-house crafters. Trade is always risky, and the profits won't increase due to risk - predominantly because of high competition from PvP'ers who only PvE to increase profits. PvE Merchants in this case will only succeed if they belong to, or are extremely friendly to the largest Kingdom in any given game or server. (Where they become reviled by the rest of the community, and that's only if the big kingdom will let them trade to people outside of the Kingdom.)

 

Even with the central main city's stalls to sell your goods from, transferring goods to that site is a dangerous, difficult and time-expensive process where the rewards are rarely worth it. (This means, high profit/high caliber goods only.) Most PvP'ers loathe the existence of a site like this, and due to ongoing pressures - sites like this are demolished for the sake of "increasing PvP" a year into a failing sandbox PvP's lifespan. Once that happens - Regional Trade sites are regularly looted (Unless it belongs to the big kingdom on campus), making trade less fun for the PvE'er who thought this would be his saving grace.

 

Life is Feudal will have a freshly re-named newbie zone where your land ownership is extremely limited. You will never be able to solo-run a claim. You will always have to answer to a higher power Kingdom (Eventually). Material gathering will be highly risky, with minimal rewards. (Mortal Online again!)

 

The fools who pretend neutrality exists, will disappear just as fast as they disappear on Chaos and Elevation. War always wins out.

 

However, Wurm is not a hardcore PvP game. Call it FFA-lite similar to EVE online. You can literally choose to go back and forth between pure PvP and pure PvE at your hearts content. Chaos has Freedom - Epic has debuff protected home servers. If you wanted to own a deed, you'd just move to Independence or Serenity, run a business for a couple of days, then return to PvP to your hearts content.

 

You won't have that luxury in LiF. It's hardcore PvP or the equivalent of Mortal Online's PvE gameplay. PvP will always be at your doorstep, waiting to jump on you like a Lion pounces a Gazelle. The big guild comes to your solo-run claim, and you're toast. Gankers wait for you outside your resource zone, and you're toast. You get jumped on your way to your merchant stall, and you're toast. You learn to PvP or you quit.

 

Or, like you said. You hide behind the banner of the biggest kingdom on campus. Be their crafter-######. You don't gather your own supplies unless it's deep within their territory. You craft when they tell you too. You aren't allowed to sell to their enemies. (If they're the big guys, that includes everyone.)

 

Tack on other extremely foolish decisions such as deforestation and a ridiculously easy skilling curve - and even if PvE was a viable gameplay element in LiF, it'd be an extremely boring one, again, similar to Mortal Online's PvE gameplay, except probably worse.

 

The only difference is in LIF there will be less of a loss if you so happen to die, where in Wurm because of the lack of options in equipment and the value of such things even 1 death hurts.

 

Similar to Ultima Online and Mortal Online, this will encourage people to seek out high caliber resource zones to gank gatherers.

 

It will also mean Merchants traveling to known stalls will be targeted as well. (Most gankers just stay outside of the newbie zones for guaranteed prey.)

 

PvE'ers become the preferred prey, because they will be the most profitable to kill.

 

It's actually quite remarkable to see the exact same mistakes being made over and over again in each Sandbox PvP game.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Dairuka

[Ganken 60]

LiF looks like its all, so I can understand why many would be against it. They aren't going to get the PvE crowds.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Ganken

[MaurizioAM 919]

You can do that in any PvP game. Mortal Online, Darkfall, Shadowbane, Meridian 59, Never Winter Nights '94. It's always been that way, so this is nothing new.

 

However, choosing to be a pure carebear in a game like LiF or any of the aforementioned - has and will guarantee you'll never be respected. Hatred of Carebears is the war-call of the PvP'er, it's the go-to insult.

 

Once claims, deeds, guilds, clans, cities, factions and kingdoms are established - You get the Mortal Online effect: Trade is minimized as everything is often required to be donated in-house, or provided by well established in-house crafters. Trade is always risky, and the profits won't increase due to risk - predominantly because of high competition from PvP'ers who only PvE to increase profits. PvE Merchants in this case will only succeed if they belong to, or are extremely friendly to the largest Kingdom in any given game or server. (Where they become reviled by the rest of the community, and that's only if the big kingdom will let them trade to people outside of the Kingdom.)

 

Even with the central main city's stalls to sell your goods from, transferring goods to that site is a dangerous, difficult and time-expensive process where the rewards are rarely worth it. (This means, high profit/high caliber goods only.) Most PvP'ers loathe the existence of a site like this, and due to ongoing pressures - sites like this are demolished for the sake of "increasing PvP" a year into a failing sandbox PvP's lifespan. Once that happens - Regional Trade sites are regularly looted (Unless it belongs to the big kingdom on campus), making trade less fun for the PvE'er who thought this would be his saving grace.

 

Life is Feudal will have a freshly re-named newbie zone where your land ownership is extremely limited. You will never be able to solo-run a claim. You will always have to answer to a higher power Kingdom (Eventually). Material gathering will be highly risky, with minimal rewards. (Mortal Online again!)

 

The fools who pretend neutrality exists, will disappear just as fast as they disappear on Chaos and Elevation. War always wins out.

 

However, Wurm is not a hardcore PvP game. Call it FFA-lite similar to EVE online. You can literally choose to go back and forth between pure PvP and pure PvE at your hearts content. Chaos has Freedom - Epic has debuff protected home servers. If you wanted to own a deed, you'd just move to Independence or Serenity, run a business for a couple of days, then return to PvP to your hearts content.

 

You won't have that luxury in LiF. It's hardcore PvP or the equivalent of Mortal Online's PvE gameplay. PvP will always be at your doorstep, waiting to jump on you like a Lion pounces a Gazelle. The big guild comes to your solo-run claim, and you're toast. Gankers wait for you outside your resource zone, and you're toast. You get jumped on your way to your merchant stall, and you're toast. You learn to PvP or you quit.

 

Or, like you said. You hide behind the banner of the biggest kingdom on campus. Be their crafter-######. You don't gather your own supplies unless it's deep within their territory. You craft when they tell you too. You aren't allowed to sell to their enemies. (If they're the big guys, that includes everyone.)

 

Tack on other extremely foolish decisions such as deforestation and a ridiculously easy skilling curve - and even if PvE was a viable gameplay element in LiF, it'd be an extremely boring one, again, similar to Mortal Online's PvE gameplay, except probably worse.

 

 

Similar to Ultima Online and Mortal Online, this will encourage people to seek out high caliber resource zones to gank gatherers.

 

It will also mean Merchants traveling to known stalls will be targeted as well. (Most gankers just stay outside of the newbie zones for guaranteed prey.)

 

PvE'ers become the preferred prey, because they will be the most profitable to kill.

 

It's actually quite remarkable to see the exact same mistakes being made over and over again in each Sandbox PvP game.

 

From your reply i take it that you have not done much reading as to how they plan to implement balance between what you are so worried about becomes a PVP gank show by the largest Kingdom. Yes in politics there will be stronger kingdoms and weaker ones, and i have played in many games with an open more PVP oriented aspect in which yes there are and have been plenty of smaller not so tough villages who stand on their own... And about PVPers not respecting Carebears you are dead wrong about that, Yes PVPers dont respect a Carebear who only plays on a PVE server, but PVPers do respect Carebears who play on a PVP server, so the respect level in games like Darkfall and roma victor and LIF are much higher towards carebears then on Wurm.

 

Clearly you are not interested in the game and thats all fine, but i will comment only a little bit more about what you have not read which helps with PVP 24/7.. First travel is one of them, the world is large and going to take a while to get around the map, this however does not really stop all random gankings.... But a good alignment system does stop random gankings. LIF has an alignment system which will penalize players for random ganks... You must be at war or you will end up turning into an outlaw. There is also skill loss and as an outlaw your skill loss is by far worse then if you were playing Honorable. I am in no means saying it is 100% perfect or going to be 100% perfect, but thats what testing is for to try and find a balance. Much of everything was already thought about which you list in your concerns and because all of it what thought about is also the reason why there will be balances for such matters, giving a benefit for groups to play Honorably is a start, now player politics will also play a big part in things, and I can assure you i know a lot of full clans coming from games like DF that will easily form a zerg alliance to take down that Ruling Kingdom you talk about if they pose to much of a dishonorable zerg situation.

 

So yes over all, you will be able to play "Somewhat" neutral if you know how to dance around the political gaming world. And this even goes for Wurm, for about 1 year I was able to keep somewhat neutral relations with the kingdoms on chaos, and it was due to politics and also our actions. Its not Impossible its just not likely that everyone can pull it off. I have said it for years that Wurms Chaos/wild server are not what most make it sound to be.... yes there are some crazy raids where everything is lost but 9 times out of 10 Chaos is quite for the most part.