Posted October 20, 2022 Wow, fantastic direction! Hopefully it works out as intended! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 20, 2022 6 hours ago, Nomadikhan said: I feel Ike having no downvotes is a bad idea. A suggestions can have 400 likes and 50000 views, but how do you know those other 49500 visitors were neutral and instead disliked the suggestion but couldn’t be counted. If there's 50,000 views and only 400 likes there's one of a few things: It's a bad idea Everything else is getting 50,000 views and getting more likes The discussion link included will have more talk about it. Also high votes doesn't mean its going to get in, it's that it's going to be responded to, if it's a bad idea to only get a <1% like rate, it's not going to be added. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 20, 2022 I can't be the only player that doesn't want to deal with suggestions forum. It's a headache discussing suggestions with other players. I think it's a nice compliment to the suggestions forum to let those of us who don't want to discuss can now simply vote on things. But there are issues: Problem: It would be easy to spam out multiple voting accounts. Fake IP + disposable email. Solution: Link the voting accounts to in-game accounts. Couldn't you give players a means to generate a hash confirmation code in-game which is used in the upvote account creation stage? It would let you link game accounts with the voter accounts on the site. Problem: I don't want to have to look at vote options more than once. Solution: There needs to be a way for us to hide a suggestion and remember this between site visits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 20, 2022 (edited) If everyone joined in, this might be a useful additional level of abstraction to help you in obtaining data in the format you need, but I fear that in creating yet another website for people to choose to register, you will be seriously reducing the size (and therefore possibly the accuracy/reliability) of your data set. It will never represent the views of people who *just play* without some direct link to vote from within the game. People who play Wurm: Spoiler People who use the forums regularly: Spoiler People who want to sign up to yet another website to vote: Spoiler Just teasing you, I hope your site is successful, but please don't forget the everyday people who *just play* in game and will never get to hear about these suggestions, let alone vote on them. Edited October 20, 2022 by Muse 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 20, 2022 My concerns are that you choose what suggestions show up. By doing this your still choosing only what you want to work on versus what people want to suggest or would like to see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2022 That you guys are making visible efforts to show us that you're listening, even though you likely we already and we just couldn't see it, is awesome! With rare exceptions, more communication is usually better. The updating roadmap will be a truly amazing feedback mechanism! However I have to echo many of the concerns others have posted, primarily the additional site and registration, and the lack of downvotes. The additional site has been detailed sufficiently, considering that the communication is moving the wrong way in that instance: away from the active player population and more toward the armchair forum warriors. The move should be toward implementing suggestions and discussion of suggestions in the game itself to make it easier for more to participate. I do want to talk more about the voting. Really, having only a single choice (of popularity) won't tell you guys anything except how popular a thing or submitter is. And if that vote tally is visible (sorry, haven't and probably won't register), it just leads more toward popularity contests and peer pressure. For one, the vote should be hidden. No non-dev (not even GMs) should know how well an idea is faring once it gets to the voting stage. And as long as what we each decide remains anonymous, you are more likely to get genuine feedback. And instead of having a single popularity choice, have multiple choices: - I don't have any preference for or against this proposal - I really like this idea and it should be implemented as described - I support this idea overall even though I don't like some parts of it - I really don't like this idea and it probably couldn't be changed to make me support it - I can't support this idea as is, but it could be changed in ways that would make me support it - I don't wish to vote at this time Each of those options gives important information about the proposal under consideration. The last option would allow revisiting the proposal at a later time to cast a vote. If there are a number of votes about wanting changes, that's a sign the discussion might not really have been over about this. The "no" votes are just as important as the "yes" votes, as already mentioned multiple times. Obviously, this community has people who will vote negatively just to shoot down any idea but their own, but as long as the devs (and only the devs) can see who votes for what, they can quickly identify and ignore the trolls. Unfortunately, you won't be able to let a mindless uptick counting bot determine what is next on the agenda. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, Davih said: - Finally, i'll just go into a bit deeper but even more worrying meta: One could just (intentionally or not) suggest something in a poor way, like presented with poor explaination or in an obnoxious way, and that would be it for that suggestion, as duplicates aren't allowed, we get to stick with the first but poor version of it because it's not possible to duplicate or improve upon it?... So... this is the suggestion for the merge now: I guess this is it? if i would, for some reason i decide to be pro-merge, i'm supposed to upvote this because we now can't have duplicate suggestions? Even the one who wrote it didn't upvote it, and how did it even pass moderation, lol. Edited October 21, 2022 by Davih 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2022 I'm no expert on this, but I think some people are missing the intent and thinking if it reaches x votes it's going in. I think this is like the white houise petition system where if a petition (or suggestion) hits x votes, it simply gets reviewed and commented on. It's basically giving a way for the devs to identify popular suggestions and comment on whether it's something that needs attention. It's also not guaranteed to go in as-is, as that would be silly, something with enough votes shows popular support for something, but doesnt necessarily mean the suggestion itself fixes the issue. TL;DR Downvotes would mean nothing, all upvotes do is have the devs give comments on it, this is not a democratic way of putting content in (nor should it be) so it doesn't need anyone to downvote it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2022 On 10/20/2022 at 11:34 AM, Keenan said: I want to set some expectations around the lifecycle of a suggestion. Suggestions will live in the Open state for at least a week before being put into Under Review. Once in Under Review, it may take at least a week to make a determination. If accepted, we will mark it as Planned and it will show up on the Roadmap. If not accepted, it will be moved to Closed and a comment will be added explaining why we rejected the suggestion. As mentioned above, this will be subject to change as we tweak the process! Please see Keenan's edit of the OP if it's been missed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2022 9 hours ago, Davih said: Did you suggested that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Tor said: Did you suggested that I obviously did not, was pretty clear from context, lol Edited October 21, 2022 by Davih Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Davih said: I obiously did not, was pretty clear from context, lol I was mean more in a way "Are you faking it that someone else suggested that and not you?" Not really blame you or anything, it means anyone can troll suggest something that they don't like in a way that's sounds or looks like nonsense, for the opposite effect Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Tor said: I was mean more in a way "Are you faking it that someone else suggested that and not you?" Not really blame you or anything, it means anyone can troll suggest something that they don't like in a way that's sounds or looks like nonsense, for the opposite effect Yeah, that's exactly my original concern that i quoted from myself. I'm not against a merge, i still kinda have to make up my mind about it, but i have no reason to suggest it poorly with bad hints of SFI elitism, lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2022 There was a Suggestions forum-place years ago where we voted on improvements. Did it get discontinued? There were a lot of good ideas in that one. Food for thought, Cheers, Hughmongus Cartographer of Indy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2022 are we going to have an other skill gain event like last year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2022 alternative to alternative platforms.... new separate forum section with only polls and some sort of simplified answers.. while original-post keeps things literally down to a sentence or 2-3.. and a link to actual suggestion(where people could comment).. so the polls area remains for just votes(lock right after creation, delete any posts if there are any comments after the poll).. there should be a way to see the ones with most votes on them.. and figure if there's support/dislikes or somebody remains with questionable standing for the suggested content.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites