Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) While I'm thinking about it, having to tame a horse every time to remove/add/change its gear seems odd, too. Wouldn't it be more realistic for horses to require a "broken" trait first, and then anyone can ride/manage it without taming? So, a horse wrangler breaks a horse of wildness first, and once done, you don't need taming to add/remove gear. Edited March 15, 2018 by Roccandil 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Roccandil said: While I'm thinking about it, having to tame a horse every time to remove/add/change its gear seems odd, too. Wouldn't it be more realistic for horses to require a "broken" trait first, and then anyone can ride/manage it without taming? So, a horse wrangler breaks a horse of wildness first, and once done, you don't need taming to add/remove gear. I don't think I'd recommend walking up to a random horse you've never met before and slapping a saddle on its back You don't have to take it out to dinner or anything but you probably want to get acquainted a little first. Just sayin'. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Reylaark said: I don't think I'd recommend walking up to a random horse you've never met before and slapping a saddle on its back You don't have to take it out to dinner or anything but you probably want to get acquainted a little first. Just sayin'. Is that really the same as making a -pet- of the creature every time you want to repair a horseshoe? That just seems silly odd. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 16, 2018 Sure, removing gear while riding is ok, but to pick a sprout, harvest apples/cherries, etc., or attach a lock to a gate "you must be on solid ground to do that." We get told that would not be "realistic." Things that make you say hmm. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 16, 2018 9 hours ago, Roccandil said: While I'm thinking about it, having to tame a horse every time to remove/add/change its gear seems odd, too. Wouldn't it be more realistic for horses to require a "broken" trait first, and then anyone can ride/manage it without taming? So, a horse wrangler breaks a horse of wildness first, and once done, you don't need taming to add/remove gear. When you brand a horse, you dont need to tame it in order to take/put on the horse gear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 16, 2018 8 hours ago, Vomusu said: When you brand a horse, you dont need to tame it in order to take/put on the horse gear. I know, but that still seems odd. Realistically, branding is a claim of ownership, it has nothing to do with whether or not a horse is broken to ride. (How often were horses branded, compared to other animals like cattle? The thing about cattle is that they often had to be taken "off-deed" to graze, so branding helped keep who belonged to whom straight.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, Roccandil said: I know, but that still seems odd. Realistically, branding is a claim of ownership, it has nothing to do with whether or not a horse is broken to ride. (How often were horses branded, compared to other animals like cattle? The thing about cattle is that they often had to be taken "off-deed" to graze, so branding helped keep who belonged to whom straight.) Dude , it's a game. You have to prioritize gameplay over immersion in some cases. For example : making your character break his back and die because he had too much rock in his inventory would be immersive, but it would be a really bad idea for a game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Gladiator said: Dude , it's a game. You have to prioritize gameplay over immersion in some cases. For example : making your character break his back and die because he had too much rock in his inventory would be immersive, but it would be a really bad idea for a game. We have strength to govern carry weight, and that seems a reasonable and immersive-enough mechanic. Taking horseshoes (which in RL involves removing nails!) off a galloping horse while riding it, however, is beyond silly. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, Roccandil said: Taking horseshoes (which in RL involves removing nails!) off a galloping horse while riding it, however, is beyond silly. yeah but how often do you ride a horse thats on fire or a mystical unicorn irl 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 16, 2018 I have no problem with the fact that people who are into that sort of thing get to do it. I don't really give a flip what others do for the most part as long as it doesn't affect me. I sorta do have a problem with the idea that certain play styles get concessions to their QoL, while others do not. I just find it very interesting that picking a sprout from a tree (and dozens of other harmless actions), isn't allowed and yet removing gear while riding a horse is allowed. Wonder why that is. Any time a suggestion is made to allow picking sprouts while mounted, it's immediately shot down and usually because of the "realism" argument. So, why doesn't the "realism" argument apply to removing gear while mounted as well as picking a stupid sprout? Just gotta lol sometimes. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 16, 2018 1 hour ago, MrGARY said: yeah but how often do you ride a horse thats on fire or a mystical unicorn irl Ah, but that's the game's lore, and is thus reasonably immersive. Where is the lore explaining our incredible power to unshoe a horse at full gallop? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Roccandil said: Ah, but that's the game's lore, and is thus reasonably immersive. Where is the lore explaining our incredible power to unshoe a horse at full gallop? where is the lore explaining our incredible power to hold glowing hot metal and mash it into an anvil to create a complex creation where is the lore explaining our incredible power to hold glowing hot metal and mash it into said complex creation to improve it where is the lore explaining our incredible power to put glowing hot metal armor against our bare skin for protection where is the lore explaining our incredible power to chop down an entire overaged tree with a rake where is the lore explaining our incredible power to pick up the entire felled tree and put it in our pocket where is the lore explaining our incredible power to dig entire massive chunks of dirt and hold it in our pockets in pristine form awaiting removal from our pockets the list could go on for ages in fact, wurms reality is so intensely horrifying, that the lore requires us to have a little bit of qol to deal with the painful reality we see in ourselves as we rip the armor off our melted charred skin with our disfigured hands and that's how it explains our power to take gear off a horse 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 17, 2018 7 hours ago, MrGARY said: where is the lore explaining our incredible power to hold glowing hot metal and mash it into an anvil to create a complex creation In this case, assuming the tongs/hammers are abstracted into the "anvil" isn't too bad; the result is close enough. I wouldn't mind seeing this improved, though; most such tools are explicitly defined. 7 hours ago, MrGARY said: where is the lore explaining our incredible power to hold glowing hot metal and mash it into said complex creation to improve it Yeah, I find the imping system a little odd. I've made suggestions. 7 hours ago, MrGARY said: where is the lore explaining our incredible power to put glowing hot metal armor against our bare skin for protection Ironically, you -can't- put glowing hot horseshoes on a horse, for just this reason. I have no idea why this isn't true for our own gear, but +1 to the suggestion. 7 hours ago, MrGARY said: where is the lore explaining our incredible power to chop down an entire overaged tree with a rake Now that's impressive. If it came to it, I'd say that shouldn't be possible. 7 hours ago, MrGARY said: where is the lore explaining our incredible power to pick up the entire felled tree and put it in our pocket Again, this is tied to strength, so it's not too bad. Might be good to introduce inventory -volume-, however (with gear to improve it). 7 hours ago, MrGARY said: where is the lore explaining our incredible power to dig entire massive chunks of dirt and hold it in our pockets in pristine form awaiting removal from our pockets the list could go on for ages See above; strength is fine, but a volume for inventory could be a nice immersion improvement, if done right. 7 hours ago, MrGARY said: in fact, wurms reality is so intensely horrifying, that the lore requires us to have a little bit of qol to deal with the painful reality we see in ourselves as we rip the armor off our melted charred skin with our disfigured hands and that's how it explains our power to take gear off a horse Clearly, we shouldn't be able to put on glowing hot armor, but by using that a justification for removing horse gear from a charging horse, you're effectively confirming we shouldn't be able to do that, either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 17, 2018 Thus we achieve a catch 22 To make the game more realistic in your eyes would make it unrealistic to play 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, SmeJack said: Thus we achieve a catch 22 To make the game more realistic in your eyes would make it unrealistic to play So taking horse gear off a running horse is actually realistic in -your- eyes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 17, 2018 realistic game play yes, I'm under no illusions that I'm in a fantasy world and my value comes from the enjoyment of playing the game not making it more frustrating and as such unenjoyable I'm quite happy to keep pulling shoes off moving horses, keep my magical mary poppins bag pockets, keep my molten skin and i'll +1 being able to contort to pick sprouts from horseback 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 17, 2018 Interesting definition of realistic, but all right, let me ask you this: isn't removing horse gear from a galloping horse a way around full loot drop? From my perspective, it looks like a developer-supported exploit to make PvP less hardcore. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 17, 2018 It can only be done if its tame, it can only be done before the horse dies, if the horse dies then it has anti loot mechanics blocking looting the corpse (since you are on epic), if you did get it off and its in your inv then its subject to a res stone which is a way around full loot drop. Its really not that big of a deal to be calling it a developer supported exploit, if you want to take it off too soon and hinder your speed your choice, if you want to take it off too late and potentially miss the boat also your choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 17, 2018 The reason why removing gear while riding is allowed is because gear is expensive. A full set of 90w gear runs you about 4-5s and a full set of rares enchanted about 25s, Since horses die so fast, and people can snatch a corpse instantly (on Chaos) before you can pick it up once you are dehorsed, its a sure way to loose 25s everytime your horse dies. Horses die a lot. This type of "immersion" is not sustainable. The developers know this and have given us a way from saving our gear during fights. You can easily two or one shot a non barded horse. Trust me, if you had to pay 25s everytime you fought a troll on Freedom, you'd be asking for a change too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Angelklaine said: The reason why removing gear while riding is allowed is because gear is expensive. A full set of 90w gear runs you about 4-5s and a full set of rares enchanted about 25s, Since horses die so fast, and people can snatch a corpse instantly (on Chaos) before you can pick it up once you are dehorsed, its a sure way to loose 25s everytime your horse dies. Horses die a lot. This type of "immersion" is not sustainable. The developers know this and have given us a way from saving our gear during fights. You can easily two or one shot a non barded horse. Trust me, if you had to pay 25s everytime you fought a troll on Freedom, you'd be asking for a change too. I wonder if perhaps a more realistic way to counter this would be to actually make the horses harder to kill or perhaps get rid of the CR bonus for being on a horse or perhaps some of both? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 17, 2018 17 hours ago, Amadee said: Any time a suggestion is made to allow picking sprouts while mounted, it's immediately shot down and usually because of the "realism" argument. So, why doesn't the "realism" argument apply to removing gear while mounted as well as picking a stupid sprout? Just gotta lol sometimes. I've seen picking sprouts from horseback work very well in WU, but there we got 5 sprouts per action. How many do we get in WO these days? To me, it means the noob riding around on his cow with a 5ql sickle can still get a lot of sprouts even if every phat cat out there grabs thousands they just want to stuff in bsb racks of bsbs racks. I was pretty against allowing harvesting from horseback for that same reason. Olives (for example) are pretty valuable and to the noob that travels all over just to find a forest, it would be disheartening to find the first 2/3rds of it completely denuded in the last hour. Might not be a realistic concern in retrospect. I do think you're absolutely right though, if we can remove horseshoes at a full gallop, which is ridiculous, then we should be able to pick a sprout on horseback... which is not ridiculous. That will inevitably lead to grabbing olives, apples, etc. on horseback as well, but maybe, probably, my concerns on that were unfounded. 19 minutes ago, Nappy said: I wonder if perhaps a more realistic way to counter this would be to actually make the horses harder to kill or perhaps get rid of the CR bonus for being on a horse or perhaps some of both? Was thinking the same but I'm with Amadee on just having to lol sometimes. A pve player asking if we could possibly not have goals that involve pvp is summarily rejected by pvp players completely unaffected by it, but removing horseshoes at a full gallop? Oh yeah, absolutely, that should be in game immediately. I'm unaffected by it, so if that makes them happy, sure, who cares. The double standard they don't even remotely begin to recognize is just mind boggling though. There must obviously be a reason why killing horses so easily suits the very same people who don't want to lose their gear, otherwise it would have already been changed. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 17, 2018 The mechanic predates this random monetary justification and making horses harder to kill puts us back at old hellhorses which made people cry 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 17, 2018 1 minute ago, SmeJack said: The mechanic predates this random monetary justification and making horses harder to kill puts us back at old hellhorses which made people cry which people? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 17, 2018 Im not playing group vs group It was those whom it impacted 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Nappy said: I wonder if perhaps a more realistic way to counter this would be to actually make the horses harder to kill or perhaps get rid of the CR bonus for being on a horse or perhaps some of both? A horse with barding or oakshell is already hard enough to kill. And being able to remove gear while riding a horse is no more unrealistic than seeing trolls and spiders the size of VWs while you ride around, its a game not a real life simulator, get over it already. Edited March 17, 2018 by JakeRivers 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites