Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/77110-three-months-five-hundred-euro-a-fair-and-unbiased-analysis-of-the-game/#entry763433This thread is kind of a reply to the posts in the link above about how wurm could use some eve factor.Well, I would leave the skill system wurm has now as is since as I see it, its good as is. Yes Im sure there are skills others will say needs tweaking, but other then that its fine.First off, really need to get known bugs fixed, and strengthen the server and client files.http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/77110-three-months-five-hundred-euro-a-fair-and-unbiased-analysis-of-the-game/page__st__20#entry763568Server 1: Kind of as now. Warring kingdoms, mixture of mobs, deeds, defenses, towers etc. same resources.Server 2: Can't plant deeds, can build stuff* including towers, a couple of more valuable resources.Server 3: Can only build towers, tough mobs, another couple of resource types.Server 4: Can't build anything, lots of monstrous mobs, most valuable materials.Well one way to go about this is to have one large server, without being linked to any other server or cluster. The server should be about 8x8 the size of independence. With dead in the center a protected or pve area that would cover the size of 2x2 independence maps. So those that wish to play without pvp can do so. And around the protected area there should be a 1x4 ring/box around it lets call it, the outer ring for now.Lastly a full out PvP 2x8 on the edge of the server, for now called Free mans land.There will be water ways that flow all the way out to the edge of the deed. Add high mind logic ships that sail faster but has the cargo hold of a small cart up to ones that can fit two rafts.As in small ships that can hit 30km/h+ but need 30+ mind logicFreedom Skill gainPlenty of water ways that reach from the center to the outer edge of the server150-200 dirt layerPlayer StandingRevamp the alignment system to be effected by killing animals and players or taking part in killing other players.(leaving the old system in use for the religions)So, a player with 0.0 standing is neither Friendly nor Foe, 0.0 - +40.0 is neutral, 40.01 - 70.0 is good, 70.01 - 100 is excellent-0.01 - -40.0 is Bandit, -40.01 - -70 is Outlaw, -70.01 - -100 is Murderer Killing or taking part in killing players will lower your standings, while killing animals depending on how strong they are will increase your standing.Wild cat increase by +0.003Troll increase by +0.01Killing a player decrease by -0.50 (Or attack and the player end up dying within 10minutes of your last attack hitting them)There will not by a 3x gain on this skillPlayers with -50.0 standing or lower will not be able to enter the Protected/PvE area without the templars attacking themProtected/PvEWell, within this area players can build and live as they please but with limited QL of metals and weaker animals roaming around other then a few trolls and hell critters for players to hunt or watch out for. The area will be guarded by Templars that will not attack aggressive animals, only players with a negative Standing.Players can place their own deeds and have their own templars, but towers can not be built within the PvE area.No PvPNo stealingNo damaging housesNo looting bodiesAlliance/village wars enabled(PvP only no looting or raiding)1-40QL veins can be foundEach god will have its own starter town.(Mag/Fo/Vyn/Lib)Each town will have an altar of the god they followEach town will have one or two tradersEach town will have a building with beds to rent along with two forages and two ovensThe outer ringThis area is unguarded can either be an unbuild able area to allow own hunting or limited PvP.IF limited PvPPlayers can place their own deeds and hire templars, Towers can be built here.PvP enabledCan damage housesCan loot bodiesCan stealCan not drain tokensStrong animals can be found roaming around, with a mix of weaker ones.1-70QL veins can be foundAlliance/village wars enabled(Same limits PvP/can loot/can steal/cant drain token)IF unbuild able areaPlayers can not place deedsTowers can not be builtHouses and fences can not be built1-70ql veins can be foundStrong animals can be found roaming around, with a mix of weaker ones.PvP enabledCan loot bodiesCan stealFree mans landPretty much just like epicPlayers can place their own deed and hire templars. Can build towersPvPCan stealingCan loot bodiesCan damage housesCan drain tokens1-99QL veins can be foundStrongest animals can be found roaming around, with a mix of weaker ones.Protected areaOuter ringFree mans landx x x x x x x xx x x x x x x xx x x x x x x xx x x x x x x xx x x x x x x xx x x x x x x xx x x x x x x xx x x x x x x xQ&AWhy should one server have both PvE and PvP on it?​That way there will always be a supply of weapons, tools, and materials to use if you wish to buy them rather then make em yourself. So if you change your mind on what kind of play style you want to experience without having to re-level skills and buy new gear.Why such a large server?To support a large number of players once Wurm is more "player friendly" and or popular.More area to hunt, gather materials, explore, and live off of.End the need/want of new servers every few months.Why not just use the server link/border system?So everyones on one server, not limited to just one server of animal use, Dont need to maintain a number of "camps" to keep animals at for raiding other servers. Can go any where by cart/animal. Edited March 10, 2013 by Ronnie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) Double... Edited March 8, 2013 by Protunia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 8, 2013 -1 sorry no way.The whole Idea is not going to fly for most people.In fact it will never happen here. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) If I wanted to play Eve where I am at risk of gankings by other humans to get to the good stuff without paying for it I would be playing Eve. You can still have a risk vs. rewards location based structure for PVE that is identical to that of PVP, you just remove the human vs. human fighting that many people simply do not care for and replace it with mob fighting. While PVP thrives on human conflict and prefers that as a solution to all problems, PVE would much rather have the GMs as a neutral third party deal with any actual human conflicts that do exist.For example if marble was only available in distant lands protected by hostile croc spawns, it would be more rare and valuable creating risk vs. reward. This is not the same thing as a cartel that bottles up a dragon and milks it for offspring skin, PVE should by about open access to all and limited but not unique supply for those who dare risk. However the vocal minority has already cried out they was denied access to marble floors because it required the minor risk of looking for it across the land or being lucky to have it at no risk other than cave spawns they have to wait for the templar to get at, and the devs relented and now everyone has it or knows a neighbor that does and there simply is no market for it. So even though risk vs. reward makes for a much more interesting dynamic game, a generation has been raised in the era of participation trophies and instant gratification and have no concept of what that actually means. Edited March 8, 2013 by yarnevk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) QUICK! SHOOT THE IDEA DOWN! *aims the Howitzers* Kill iiiitttt!!!Edit: If this was ever implemented, it'd be a new game-play all its own and would need its own cluster.There's ALOT of people who don't even want to catch of whiff of PVP or any of that, so they play on freedom.I am quite content with Epic's current PvP system aswell.A nice idea, but... would never work. Edited March 8, 2013 by Radni Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) -1 sorry no way.The whole Idea is not going to fly for most people.In fact it will never happen here.Thought I'd never ever agree but -1 so much to OP I think you should start playing another game. Edited March 8, 2013 by Tineen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 8, 2013 -1 heh will never ever fly....My vote heck to the no way! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 8, 2013 -1 sorry no way.The whole Idea is not going to fly for most people.In fact it will never happen here.I agree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) No. Edited March 8, 2013 by Lolly1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 8, 2013 This really doesn't make much sense as a setup, having people who want to pvp be restricted to outer areas of the map, and have to go through wurms long travel times to go fight each other is pretty much the opposite of encouraging pvp.Add more weapons along with balance them outSo at least each weapon class has a slow but high damage and a fast but low damage weapon. So 2 two handed swords, 2 one handed swords, ect....So players can pick between either attacking fast but weak, or slow and hard.Have different armor types protect against different attack typesSlash/chop/bash/stabOne armors better at one defense then the others.This already exists.Small maul, large maul,Small axe, huge axeShortsword, 2h swordChain is good vs mauling, weak to piercing/cuttingPlate is good vs cutting/piercing, weak to mauling Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) This really doesn't make much sense as a setup, having people who want to pvp be restricted to outer areas of the map, and have to go through wurms long travel times to go fight each other is pretty much the opposite of encouraging pvp.This already exists.Small maul, large maul,Small axe, huge axeShortsword, 2h swordChain is good vs mauling, weak to piercing/cuttingPlate is good vs cutting/piercing, weak to maulingyour missing the point, your compairing 1hand weapons to two hand weapons.Great sword vs Broad swordSabre vs ScimitarThat kind of mix.... not this bloody vague setup we have now...Also:Chain armour generally provides a middle ground base defense with moderate penalties to speed. The wearer will walk moderately slower and have a moderately slower attack speed. Chain armor offers a defense bonus vs. stabbing damageI mean different types of chain mail, padded chain mail, plate mail, full plate, breast plate, ect.And Those of you that play on Epic, look at how your clusters setupHome servers on the out side, and PvP server in the center. Dont you think this is some what, what the devs already have in mind? This way PvE in the center and PvP on the outskirts. Edited March 10, 2013 by Ronnie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 11, 2013 +1I'll say the following:One server is always better than muli in any game for keeping the population together and promoting trade.The rings concept is already proven to work (ala eve) and the purely pve people there like it just fine.I will also say this:Not sure the current game engine can support this size server; and if it can, I don't think most people's computers can in the current engine.A change of this magnitute would require a massive shift, ala wurm 2.0. You would have to remove all the existing servers, which would kill the playerbase.Wurm has more important things to do first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 13, 2013 +1 I really like the aspect of the ideas, I see alot of it from mortal mostly grabbed but I did like that once your dead there you have to either go loot your body before they do or hope your crap is there. I wanna see more this in games but most mmos are going to be kiddy cornered because thats how some people are. They want it handed to them not earned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) No to combined PVP/PVE. Mortal Online is a great example why not to do it.The amazing growth of PVE here should prove there are plenty of people that do not want to kill their fellow man for sport and fun, but have no problems killing fantasy creatures. You would loose the entire population of PVE if you say their creation and gathering is nerfed from now, because you are forcing them to participate in PVP for better stuff.More forum warrior PVP posters saying they need more sheep for their wolves is really just because they are bad PVP players that cannot compete, so they need people worse than them in the game that do not want to fight so they can get any 'PVP' at all, which their victims instead would describe as homocide and robbery by gankers, and hardly a resource motivated war between kingdoms.PVE can have the same risk from mobs, they do not need PVP ganking farmers to add the risk vs. reward to the game. Edited March 13, 2013 by yarnevk 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 13, 2013 I do think that one world, even if set up on multiple ways on various ways would benefit the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 13, 2013 I'd say go to epic and you can sort of find this type of thing.And again -1 to combining servers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 13, 2013 I am all for having all the Freedom servers mashed together and everybody plays on one big (insanely huge!) map. The idea of creating communities and markets based on regional proximity like ye olden days sounds fun to me. I am not at all interested in being unable to travel somewhere (like, to the ocean) because I'd have to cross a PVP zone to get there. I dislike PVP immensely. I enjoy the fighting against something smarter than computer AI, but hate the ugly competitive profanity laden talk that goes with it. And you're proposing a system whereby I will constantly be worth less than those that do PVP, because the area where you're saying I'm allowed to settle will have weaker materials, weaker mobs, weaker everything. So for me to gain even 60ql material to work with, I have to go do something I loathe, taking precious time away to travel there (including the probable building and maintenance of a second base camp in the contested zone), do all the gathering work and fight my way back home against players and mobs - all this just because I want to upgrade my shoes? Alternatively, I pay through the nose to get it materials from someone who is fine with PVP, being price gouged as all my neighbors also try to hire that guy to provide THEM with the materials I want? No. This is ill-thought out and alienates every freedom player who has specifically chosen not to engage in pvp in any form. PVE players outnumber PVP by a wide, wide margin. Reverse your proposed map so that PVP players are clustered in the center to have the weaker materials and all the skill limitations that will flow from that system, but have all the fun of beating on each other and capturing each other's castles in compensation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2013 There is this thing called Rod of transmutation, I only said veins were limited, nothing about rock tiles.And you cant get ganked while within the protected area. As PvP would be turned off.Hoping in and out of "safe zones" can be fixed rather easy. Make a 20tile boarder before the PvP area that disables healing,bandaging and recovering over time. And that your unable to shoot into said area from out side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2013 This is your proposed system for PVE players:Well, within this area players can build and live as they please but with limited QL of metals and weaker animals roaming around other then a few trolls and hell critters for players to hunt or watch out for.The area will be guarded by Templars that will not attack aggressive animals, only players with a negative Standing.Players can place their own deeds and have their own templars, but towers can not be built within the PvE area.Limited QL of metals - Say what? So if I choose to avoid the PVP areas, I will never be able to advance past a certain point in my crafting skills? How is this fair in any way?Weaker animals roaming - So I cannot gain fight skill easily (or eventually at all) in order to get better at fighting so I can beat off the animals that will, at some point, overrun my deed. How is this fair in any way? How is this going to preserve one of the selling point of Wurm, the fact that the environment is dangerous? Towers cannot be built - Say what? Are you going to give us poor PVE players some wild cats to toy around with, something even a newbie can take on, so we just don't need towers? So the only safety for the "few trolls" and "hell criters" is to run for a deed which probably has locked gates on it? How is this fair in any way?Your proposed system, at least as it relates to how PVE will function, is deeply flawed and somewhat insulting to my intelligence as a player. You are asking me to live in a sheltered box with no challenge, crippled skill advancement and no way to defend myself other than staying within my four walls and letting my templar handle anything larger than a rat - since it will be difficult-to-impossible at best to get any better at sword swinging.PVE specific players are not adverse to conflict and adventure - we are adverse to fighting other humans. Rethink your proposal - PVP players should not be rewarded with access to the best of everything simply because they are PVP players. That's ludicrous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) This is your proposed system for PVE players:Limited QL of metals - Say what? So if I choose to avoid the PVP areas, I will never be able to advance past a certain point in my crafting skills? How is this fair in any way?Weaker animals roaming - So I cannot gain fight skill easily (or eventually at all) in order to get better at fighting so I can beat off the animals that will, at some point, overrun my deed. How is this fair in any way? How is this going to preserve one of the selling point of Wurm, the fact that the environment is dangerous?Towers cannot be built - Say what? Are you going to give us poor PVE players some wild cats to toy around with, something even a newbie can take on, so we just don't need towers? So the only safety for the "few trolls" and "hell criters" is to run for a deed which probably has locked gates on it? How is this fair in any way?Your proposed system, at least as it relates to how PVE will function, is deeply flawed and somewhat insulting to my intelligence as a player. You are asking me to live in a sheltered box with no challenge, crippled skill advancement and no way to defend myself other than staying within my four walls and letting my templar handle anything larger than a rat - since it will be difficult-to-impossible at best to get any better at sword swinging.PVE specific players are not adverse to conflict and adventure - we are adverse to fighting other humans. Rethink your proposal - PVP players should not be rewarded with access to the best of everything simply because they are PVP players. That's ludicrous.Guess you havnt played to many games out there other then PvE servers. This system balances risk vs reward. Higher the risk, greater the reward.This isnt a carebear hello kitty island setup.There are items already ingame that players can use to get 99ql veins, How would you be limited? Bo ho, you have to spend a week ingame selling things to make the coin to buy it. These ideas that "games most hold your hand" nonsense really has to come to an end.And I did say a few trolls and hell critters roaming around. A few for the size of the land mass would be greater then 300. Edited March 15, 2013 by Ronnie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 15, 2013 Forcing pve players to play in a pvp enviroment is not a good idea, and countless games as proved this before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 15, 2013 -1 to this terrible, horrible idea. This was thought only through the eyes of a PvP player and it would disrupt the game for most of the population. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
