Poll: Localized resources

[Mystecore 0]

Don't know if this has been suggested, but what about area-exclusive crops such as sugar or tobacco? Anyone in that area would be able to grow them, negating the 'fenced off and hoard' tactic of static resources. These resources would be purely non-essential, perhaps giving slight benefits (sugar could add ql to meals for instance). This might not create the massive trade economy some want, but it would provide trade resources for those wishing to partake in such an exchange: without affecting the basics of the game.

[Ecrir 887]

more stuff to grow is always good, but I don't see the point in making it regional. If it's not essential then people won't pay for it so there will be no real trade, if it's essential then it will be a spot managed by one of the village priests, whom can maintain some fields.

Either way there is no point in making it regional, it's just a pointless restriction, and pointless restrictions are bad.

[Dashiva 13]

It's all about demand, and demand is driven by needs and wants. Needs are bad news, they make people quit the game. The wants are too weak. I may want a 90 QL tool, but I also want my silver coins. If I have a homemade tool, the choice is easy. Currency is really, truly valuable. It buys you deeds, upkeep, even premium time. Anything else is minor in comparison.

[Guest Faetyl]

It's all about demand, and demand is driven by needs and wants. Needs are bad news, they make people quit the game. The wants are too weak. I may want a 90 QL tool, but I also want my silver coins. If I have a homemade tool, the choice is easy. Currency is really, truly valuable. It buys you deeds, upkeep, even premium time. Anything else is minor in comparison.

You rock Dashiva

I'm very happy you are a decision maker in this game.

[Guest MrConor]

Wurm is strange, im wondering if it will work or people will just use the lazy way out if its implenmented?

IRL when the middle ages towns started up the reason they could was because the production of food and less wars meant there was alot more (Alive) people around. These people could spend time making tools and such and simply buy their food with their wares they sold and such.

I can't really see this happening in wurm though as food is easy to get and we have loads of time to grind.

[Guest QuakeIV]

Im just gun have to agree, wurm cant support a serious economy if everything is so easy.

[Danar 0]

It's all about demand, and demand is driven by needs and wants. Needs are bad news, they make people quit the game. The wants are too weak. I may want a 90 QL tool, but I also want my silver coins. If I have a homemade tool, the choice is easy. Currency is really, truly valuable. It buys you deeds, upkeep, even premium time. Anything else is minor in comparison.

I mostly agree with the needs thing, though I think perhaps that philosophy has been embraced too hard in Wurm. I wouldn't mind if I had to eat food once in a while. I wouldn't mind if there were a few more "needs" added to Wurm that worked on a similar scale to water. As far as using needs to drive an economy? Nah.

I don't think wants are too weak though. Silver's pretty nice, yes, but judging by people using merchants, the marketplace forum, and my personal experiences, people are willing to part with some coins for a fancy sail, or an enchant, or whatever. These sort of wants arise from an economy which encourages players to specialize in a skill. It may not be a well-structured, balanced, or even fully thought out system (e.g. pottery vs blacksmithing), but it's something.

I haven't read through this thread fully, but it seems to me that the people pushing this idea are pushing it for the wrong reason. The people who would monopolize the local resources are the people who get there first. They're the people who have been playing the longest. This really wouldn't significantly change the way the economy works, it definitely wouldn't benefit the average newbie. It would be cool, IMO, and it would definitely boost the economy (I have no idea how you can argue otherwise), but it wouldn't really do what you want.

If I could only grow corn, and someone wanted to sell me some imported potatoes "from the south", no way am I giving out coin for that. Balloon transport, on the other hand, especially with Freedom's eccentric terrain, would be something I'd look into paying for if it was unreasonable for me to do on my own.

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

Im just gun have to agree, wurm cant support a serious economy if everything is so easy.

And we haven't even gotten started with how it would be outright impossible for the decided hermits to play with your model.

[Guest MrConor]

Im just gun have to agree, wurm cant support a serious economy if everything is so easy.

And we haven't even gotten started with how it would be outright impossible for the decided hermits to play with your model.

Accursed Hermits.

Any other ideas to get people trading more?

Because although this game is based on crafting and terraforming, theres still stuff to trade, unfortuantly nobody doesn't really want to spend money(Or trust it) and the only people who make money are those who spend hours and hours grinding away so they can compete with the already highly skilled players.

[spellcast 983]

Any other ideas to get people trading more?

Because although this game is based on crafting and terraforming, theres still stuff to trade, unfortuantly nobody doesn't really want to spend money(Or trust it) and the only people who make money are those who spend hours and hours grinding away so they can compete with the already highly skilled players.

here i have to disagree. there are plenty of ways a person with reasonably low (20-40) skill can make money in wurm. they just involve labor instead of crafting and a small initial investment in some WOA enchanted tools (pick any 3 of the following; shovel, pick, chisel, hatchet, saw, hammer and trowel.).

Back when i was young in wurm, i made 20 silver in a single week, doing a couple of digging and mining jobs. building a couple houses, and the like.

Most people HATE to spend the time needed to nail 300 planks to a large building. offer to do it for a reasonable fee, and they usually jump at it.

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

Any other ideas to get people trading more?

Because although this game is based on crafting and terraforming, theres still stuff to trade, unfortuantly nobody doesn't really want to spend money(Or trust it) and the only people who make money are those who spend hours and hours grinding away so they can compete with the already highly skilled players.

I'm gonna quote tonygreen here:

Im always trying to throw silver at noobs trouble is they are lazy.

Those who aren't making money aren't working hard enough. Half of the time when someone says "the economy is broken, I can't make any money", they haven't really been trying. As I've said before, this is one of the few aspects of Wurm that works pretty much like IRL; Without getting your hands dirty or otherwise making yourself competitive, you won't earn anything.

The mistake too many are making is that they want to compete with the expert crafters, which is completely illogical if you just think about it for a second. Having high skill is comparable to having a university degree. If you don't have one yourself, you can't realistically expect to compete on the same grounds.

As spellcast says, there is a LOT of money to be made in labor (comparable to the "service sector" IRL), since the crafters will usually be busy crafting. Everyone can make money from digging, mining, masonry, general construction. Some people also pay well for woodcutting and coalmaking. Heck, for a while back on JKH I even hired a newbie to keep all piles of firewood near forges and ovens filled. Why labor is so often turned down upon is a mystery to me. Are people ACTUALLY lazy? Are newbies too proud to accept labor jobs?

Related note: My first job IRL involved scrubbing goddamn toilets from 06-15.

[Guest toltus]

shouldn't be implemented on existing servers, some people put a lot of money in their deeds because of the resources that are in their area, so those cannot just be taken away without proper compensation. It could be worth a shot on a new server but it really depends on the details, the idea itself is useless if the details are crap!

who said anything about takeing something away?    there would be two types of resources 

common:  iron wood  stone  ect

and localized :      marble  teak  pineapples  oranges  silk  bamboo

different  regons  would have certain  resources or products that  are localized     

these materials would have some valued roperty  like durability  or lightness  or astetics 

imagine building your home with marble blocks instead of  normal stone      food goods from other regons  may have a higher food score  that  foods grown locally  so instead of cooking  pork meat with onions  you cook pork meat with pineabble

normally these localizations are based partly on climate  in wurm  rolf would have to  figure  where the localizations are 

and yes it could be that  certain areas grow the "best  pineapples  and other areas nearby can produce a lower quality.

but it would be a powerful boost to the economy  right now there is no reason to  travel once you get settles in an area  that should change.

[Aeris 3,767]

Implementing new resources and expecting people to want them wouldn't work. If people have managed without them before they won't start a massive economy boosting trade just because they can. Not even iron which people actually needed managed to boost the economy in that way. Noone'd need oranges to get by, so they wouldn't even make "orange outposts" to import them. At least people wanted to get the iron so they made their own camps on wild to get it (or managed to get it otherwise for free). This however didn't help the economy, so making localized resources that are of no use wouldn't either.

[Guest toltus]

I think it would add up to village A controls most of a large forest, and can process it.

Village B has incredible farmland and almost no wood.

They exchange food and wood, or just sell to eachother for currency.

Essentially.

Even if some jerk makes a size 100 homestead on top of a special resource then this type of thing could be counted as greifing.

I say so?    its a special resource  it really only has  value when traded  for the most part    and you had just as much of a chance to drop your  homestead as he did.  using your example  first someone would have to locate and recognize this resource  and have the money for  such a large deed  and I expect most localized resources would be larger than even several deeds could cover.  and just think on wild serveer you could have whole  campaigns  over localized resources

[Aeris 3,767]

You're forgetting about AoC. If you fence an AoC noone can reach what's inside it. Planting deeds in such a way that makes all the AoC borders adjacent to each other and then fencing it all would stop everyone from entering.

So no, it's not impossible to get monopoly of a resource if they were made local.

Although I doubt anyone'd want to do it, but it's far from impossible and not at all as expensive as one would think.

[Guest toltus]

The deed holders will need workers.

why?

thats what alts are for.

additionally you assume that they will want to have lots of the resource availible.  lets look at this from the perspective of one of the hypothetical deed holders.

localized resources does not mean single point resources  it is unlikely that a single person could control more than even a small porton  of a localized resource even with the largest deeds    and really so what if they did?  he still has to interact with the rest of the  world  and get other localized resources  ( i do prefer that common resource qualities be  random  so that any person anywhere has an even chance at high wuality iron  or clay or wood or stone.

assume you have access to the only 50+Ql iron for kilometers in any direction, are you going to sell the iron, or are you going to turn it into good QL tools and sell them instead?.  If I were holding the deed and looking to make the most money, i'd sell the tools, it means i have exclusive access to a larger market since i have NO competition.

making the resources localized, even allowing for basic (under 50 QL) wont increase trade or foster interesting gameplay.

That's not what I said.

i wasnt replying to you. i was replying to quake.

for the record tho even if additional new resources were added above and beyond the current ones, if they are useful and regional i would expect more or less the same things to happen. players will try to form a monopoly on them if they can. While regional bonuses might work if they covered en entire quarter of the map (or maybe a 1/9th, have 9 subregions) at that point you'll have the same thing happening that we had when wild and home were linked. 

since the resources are spread over enough area to make them easy to get to for anyone (or hard for a single person or group to lock up), pretty much everyone (or at least pretty much every village) will have an alt or a camp set up in each region and there still wont be as much trade as the people who want to be merchants seem to think.

[Guest Natam]

I like this idea, and would also like to see the current forage and botanizing items based upon the geography of the local area, as well as trees, growing better of worse depending on the local geography too. 

[Artillery 6]

I remember wurm doing something like regional resources before, didn't it all fail?

Anyways, See HavenandHearth for a prime example as to why you shouldn't have regional resources

[Danar 0]

I remember wurm doing something like regional resources before, didn't it all fail?

Anyways, See HavenandHearth for a prime example as to why you shouldn't have regional resources

At some point after JKH was opened up to PvP but before Freedom, someone posited the idea of a wood and crop cap on wild to complement the ore cap on home, that way trade wouldn't be so one-sided, but it was shot down as it was massively unpopular. I don't recall any valid reasons why it would have failed though.

Gonna have to explain Haven&Hearth to those of us who don't play it.

[Othob Rithol 700]

Each Kingdom can be divided into 3 regions:

The War Zone ("Wild")

• Includes only one Trading Post, which is far from the front and heavily fortified.
  
• Dirt reverts to Tundra (not grass)
  
• Ore is High Quality
  
• Wood is Average Quality
  
• Crops are Poor Quality
  
• Spawns are limited: deer, bear, trolls, and lava fiends/spiders (plus some new cold monsters)
  
• Very cold and Mountainous area (see environmental damage at end of post)
  
• Highest level of volcanism.
  
• Multiple passes require defense/observation and can lead to partial penetrations.
  
• The primary Battleground, ideal for Experienced Players.
  

The Midlands

• Includes more Trading Posts than any other region.
  
• Ore is Average Quality
  
• Wood is High Qaulity
  
• Crops are Average Quality
  
• The most diverse and plentiful spawns.
  
• Spiders and Goblins common in the forests.
  
• Meant for the average player, and expected to be the main population center.
  
• Dark Green on the map below.
  

The Coast

• Includes Capitol : trading post and new player entry.
  
• Ore is Low Quality
  
• Wood is Average Quality
  
• Crops are High Quality
  
• Highest concentrations of Clay, Tar and Peat Deposits
  
• Most spawns are domestic, non aggressive, or weak aggressive (rats etc)
  
• Optimal for Beginners and dedicated farmers.
  
• Light Green on the map below.
  

A Crude Example:

• The colored lines correspond to the three capped categories (blue is ore, yellow wood and red crops).
  
• Where it crosses the main map vertically is the line of maximum quality.
  
• The graph below shows how quality is reduced by distance from this "ideal meridian".
  
• The orange dots represent the trade post networks.
  

All that made it into the general discussion were the localized resource caps, which were very unpopular. The orange trade networks were to provide a place to sell raw resources to NPC merchants, with raid-able NPC (or even PC) caravans hauling goods from areas of good production along the trade network. I am hoping that some of the ideas on that thread were absorbed into Rolf's ideas about Epic.

[Guest MrConor]

stuff

That sounds like a good idea, but the map should be kinda less symetrical.

[Norad 0]

not sure if its been said but -1 for wild, something else for people to complain about being bias.

[Othob Rithol 700]

That sounds like a good idea, but the map should be kinda less symetrical.

[Danar 0]

not sure if its been said but -1 for wild, something else for people to complain about being bias.

That's like being jealous of the people who have settled on an island. On a wild server, if someone monopolizes a resource like that, you can, oh, I don't know, raid them?

But you're right, people would complain anyway.

...[Players on wild] are the ones playing the game as intended, participating in the lights "story", and risking what we have via pvp. That means we deserve the game to its fullest and nothing less.

The home servers can be "economy servers" if they want and trade.

We don't really care about trade, villages on wild are for the most part self-sufficient in themselves and we like it that way.

[Guest QuakeIV]

Othob, that map looks like an awesome idea to me