General Improvement Ideas

[Jochim 3]

Posting this here at the request of some in K-chat. Mainly a repost from the sticky on changes to make wurm more attractive. This is mainly intended to be about a more focused discussion of the ideas and to see what people's opinions on them are.

I'm fairly new but there's a few things I think that would help improve the game. Some of these may have been mentioned elsewhere, those that I have noticed I have omitted

UI:

The UI in my opinion is by far the part of the game which brings it down as a whole. It honestly speaking it feels terrible to use. A lot of what's been done so far is ok but is missing so many vital parts.

-A search function for the inventory. It's easy to lose stuff in there, ideally it would filter items as you entered each character.

-Remove the toolbelt system/Start with a 50QL toolbelt. Activating items through the inventory is unwieldy and just feels bad, removing a key piece of usability from the beginning of the game doesn't strike me as beneficial to anyone.

-Key mapping UI screen. Binding keys through console commands is not the hallmark of a modern game, a UI for binding keys to actions should not be difficult to create and speaks a lot about the quality of a game.

-Combine some Key Binding actions. While binding multiple actions to the same key can get out of control, combining some preset actions would be nice. Having "FINISH" and "IMPROVE" on the same key wouldn't make the game any easier. This would free up other keys for the remaining actions.

-More intuitive categories for item creation. Having everything under "Miscellaneous" isn't a good system. I'd like to see weapon and tool components put into their respective categories at least. Alternatively items could be grouped by their skill or what they're used for.

-Improvements to Item combining. Combine without activating. It's frustrating to have to deactivate my small iron anvil to combine two iron lumps it takes unnecessary time and doesn't add anything. Combine in container. I shouldn't have to move things to my inventory to combine them. Again it does not add any functionality but irritates players.

-Add a visible action queue. It'd be nice to see what I have queued up, with icons for each, click to remove that task from the queue. Small Quality of life fix, makes things better for everyone.

Graphics:

Not much to be said here, improvements seem to be coming in the future. The game itself has a certain charm but is let down by a lack of almost any animation. People floating above horses also doesn't look great.

Gameplay:

-Not 100% sure on gameplay as I have fairly low experience. This will mostly be things that I have encountered and found lacking or frustrating, some could be completely invalid but come from my experience as a new player.

-Increase starting armour/fighting skill. We come into this world completely vulnerable to every creature we may encounter. The starting sword and shield do nothing but offer a false sense of security. Additionally even a low quality set of chain armour will not do anything to protect you from the teeth and claws of wolves and mountain lions, not to speak of the other horrors stumbled upon in our explorations.

-Dynamic speed reduction. Currently you seem to go from full speed to really slow, it would feel nicer if this was smoothed out a lot more

-Make actions slow down only at 0% or very low stamina. Having the action queue is nice but actually using it feels like a punishment. Additionally it's inconsistent with other stamina related tasks such as walking, we only slow down at very low/null stamina. Actions take long enough to complete that they're often boring but aren't long enough that you can do something else.

-Add an option to actively increase crop growth rate through fertilization with manure or compost (giving a use for unused organic items?) Allows active players to spend time for a quicker/larger harvest. Also allows an active farmer to use less land for the same gain as a passive one.

-Combat overhaul. Fighting is a bit lacking, probably the second weakest part of the game after the UI, doesn't feel particularly rewarding or clear.

Personal Gripes:

Things which may not be valid at all but have bothered/affected me as a newb.

-Fences in front of mine entrances. If someone wants to block a mine entrance they should have to use a mine door, fencing off the entrance allows people to become trapped in the mine if they run out of stamina on the slope above. While a veteran player can destroy the fence in a reasonable amount of time, f2p/new premiums must mine around. Personally it took about 4 hours to extract myself and collect my possessions. Most new players would log out or quit well before that or be forced to lose their possessions. Add in that a fence is much easier to construct than the item intended for that purpose only nd you may see why it can be a problem.

Overall I'd say the majority of these changes are small, but improve the quality of life of the player drastically, without altering the feel of the game. Currently the game offers a lot but does not stand up to other modern games in the UI or Combat areas. Combat can be forgiven at the moment but a weak UI certainly cannot, many of the features not implemented have been standard for over a decade.

[Wraithglow 787]

Amazing - I normally read these kinds of "multiple idea" threads and hate them because they have 1 good idea buried in bad. This one, I agree with. ALL OF IT.

+1

[MrGARY 12,421]

-A search function for the inventory. It's easy to lose stuff in there, ideally it would filter items as you entered each character. I'm not sure this is necessary, you can already organize by quality and alphabetical order, and to a less useful extent, damage and improve item. +0

-Remove the toolbelt system/Start with a 50QL toolbelt. Activating items through the inventory is unwieldy and just feels bad, removing a key piece of usability from the beginning of the game doesn't strike me as beneficial to anyone. -1, you're lucky to actually start with that 20ql toolbelt now, before you had nothing. Imo, no starter item should exceed 20ql.

-Key mapping UI screen. Binding keys through console commands is not the hallmark of a modern game, a UI for binding keys to actions should not be difficult to create and speaks a lot about the quality of a game. +0/+1, I'm okay with binding keys through console, but a window to actually bind keys more efficiently would be nice.

-Combine some Key Binding actions. While binding multiple actions to the same key can get out of control, combining some preset actions would be nice. Having "FINISH" and "IMPROVE" on the same key wouldn't make the game any easier. This would free up other keys for the remaining actions. This would be nice. +1

-More intuitive categories for item creation. Having everything under "Miscellaneous" isn't a good system. I'd like to see weapon and tool components put into their respective categories at least. Alternatively items could be grouped by their skill or what they're used for. This as well, +1

-Improvements to Item combining. Combine without activating. It's frustrating to have to deactivate my small iron anvil to combine two iron lumps it takes unnecessary time and doesn't add anything. Combine in container. I shouldn't have to move things to my inventory to combine them. Again it does not add any functionality but irritates players. It is sort of necessary, though. Items may have enchants that force you to have to activate it so you don't lose the enchant. Yes, the game could automate that, but I'd rather the game not make choices for you.

-Add a visible action queue. It'd be nice to see what I have queued up, with icons for each, click to remove that task from the queue. Small Quality of life fix, makes things better for everyone. Eh, could be nice. +1/0

-Increase starting armour/fighting skill. We come into this world completely vulnerable to every creature we may encounter. The starting sword and shield do nothing but offer a false sense of security. Additionally even a low quality set of chain armour will not do anything to protect you from the teeth and claws of wolves and mountain lions, not to speak of the other horrors stumbled upon in our explorations. Big -1, sorry. It's a sandbox game, you start fresh, and make your own fate. Wurm is not an 'easy mode' game.

-Dynamic speed reduction. Currently you seem to go from full speed to really slow, it would feel nicer if this was smoothed out a lot more Currently there are 3 speeds, full, half, and encumbered-almost-can't-move. I kinda like the way it is now so everyone can move the same speed within a range of carry weight. -1/0

-Make actions slow down only at 0% or very low stamina. Having the action queue is nice but actually using it feels like a punishment. Additionally it's inconsistent with other stamina related tasks such as walking, we only slow down at very low/null stamina. Actions take long enough to complete that they're often boring but aren't long enough that you can do something else. -1, some longer actions increase skill gain. It gets better with higher skill, higher quality tools, WoA enchants, etc. Especially as of late, timers were heavily changed to benefit speed.

-Add an option to actively increase crop growth rate through fertilization with manure or compost (giving a use for unused organic items?) Allows active players to spend time for a quicker/larger harvest. Also allows an active farmer to use less land for the same gain as a passive one. As long as it doesn't remove the benefit/rewards of grinding high farming skill, +0.

Replies are in bold.

[GravityDog 41]

Replies are in bold.

^ I agree with MrGARY

Edited September 12, 2012 by GravityDog

[Jochim 3]

-1, you're lucky to actually start with that 20ql toolbelt now, before you had nothing. Imo, no starter item should exceed 20ql.

I understand that in the past we didn't start with any quickslots, but I don't understand why having quickslots should be limited to people with high leatherworking and access to leather. Personally I think it adds an unnecessary level of "complexity" in that we are tying basic UI functions to ingame items, while the compass makes sense I do not believe choosing which tool to use quickly should be limited in the same way. However I'm interested in why you feel the current system is more beneficial to the game.

Big -1, sorry. It's a sandbox game, you start fresh, and make your own fate. Wurm is not an 'easy mode' game.

I understand that but at the moment encountering any aggressive animal is certain death for a new player. You stand no chance of killing a mountain lion or a wolf. I do not want the game to be easy, but the starting areas at least should be a little easier. I'd be happy to see these values adjusted so that a new player can kill a lion or wolf but sustain heavy injuries while surviving. At least they will be given the opportunity to train their fighting skills on these animals. I use these two as an example due to their prevalence in my own starting area.

By all means make the other creatures more difficult to compensate, I just think newbs shouldn't be murdered by absolutely everything they see.

I find you're other points reasonable or agreeable, thanks for taking the time to leave your feedback.

[atazs 965]

^ I agree with MrGARY

[Hussars 511]

Yay.. I can give opinion now

For the Fight Skill issue, part of the problem is that you could very well get lucky with the Random Number Generator (RNGâ„¢) and kill that lion or wolf. Part of it is that animals age in Wurm, and depending on what age the animal is in when you encounter it, will have a huge impact on how well you do against it.

As a new player (just entering the game) you are encouraged to stay near the starter town/areas which generally have guards to assist you (either tower guards you have to /say Help, or Spirit Templars who come kill anything that is aggro). This "fear of death/dismemberment" can be a good thing and will help show the new player, the world will kick you butt if you're not careful.

Overall, to me, this is a good thing. There is not that sense of "safety" you get in other MMO's. In Wurm, you're not born a "Hero", you become one.

As to skilling up, there are ways already in-game to do this with no risk to the character (practice dummies and archery targets) which you can make or buy from other players.

Does this help a new player/character? Nope.. at least not until they make their way, (usually running and screaming) to the nearest guards/town and have a chance to get their barrings. And while I'll be the first to admit it irritated me as well.. it made me want to defeat the world all that much more... As a FYI, my first death in game... falling off a cliff and down the hill west of the Howl...running from wolves...

Edited September 12, 2012 by Hussars

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

I understand that in the past we didn't start with any quickslots, but I don't understand why having quickslots should be limited to people with high leatherworking and access to leather. Personally I think it adds an unnecessary level of "complexity" in that we are tying basic UI functions to ingame items, while the compass makes sense I do not believe choosing which tool to use quickly should be limited in the same way. However I'm interested in why you feel the current system is more beneficial to the game.

It's like this way because toolbelts have always been considered luxury items for higher-end players. They were specifically added for this, because back then tool activation through the inventory was commonplace and quickslots in general has never been considered a "basic UI function". Their usefulness has probably proven to be a bit too great now so maybe there is reason to make an extended quickslot system more available, but as of right now I wouldn't support reducing the usefulness of toolbelts considering their massive importance to the leatherworker trade what with leather armor being balanced the way it is.

I understand that but at the moment encountering any aggressive animal is certain death for a new player. You stand no chance of killing a mountain lion or a wolf. I do not want the game to be easy, but the starting areas at least should be a little easier. I'd be happy to see these values adjusted so that a new player can kill a lion or wolf but sustain heavy injuries while surviving. At least they will be given the opportunity to train their fighting skills on these animals. I use these two as an example due to their prevalence in my own starting area.

By all means make the other creatures more difficult to compensate, I just think newbs shouldn't be murdered by absolutely everything they see.

I find you're other points reasonable or agreeable, thanks for taking the time to leave your feedback.

Run

Seriously though, if there are lots of aggressive animals around the spawn areas then it's obviously a problem, but it's a different one. Regarding fightskill training opportunity, new players does have the option of using training dolls, which provides enough preparation for those wolves and lions.

Edited September 12, 2012 by EliasTheCrimson

[alaskanbob 225]

Replies are in bold.

Agreed.

[Jochim 3]

It's like this way because toolbelts have always been considered luxury items for higher-end players. They were specifically added for this, because back then tool activation through the inventory was commonplace and quickslots in general has never been considered a "basic UI function". Their usefulness has probably proven to be a bit too great now so maybe there is reason to make an extended quickslot system more available, but as of right now I wouldn't support reducing the usefulness of toolbelts considering their massive importance to the leatherworker trade what with leather armor being balanced the way it is.

I don't understand how you can't consider 0-9 quickslot keys as a basic UI function when they have been common in both RPG and MMO genre's since at least 2003. Using a UI element to prop up a material market seems to point to poor design. I maintain that the lack of a 0-9 slot for new players is simply an irritation that doesn't add to any gameplay or difficulty whatsoever and serves only to annoy.

Run

Seriously though, if there are lots of aggressive animals around the spawn areas then it's obviously a problem, but it's a different one. Regarding fightskill training opportunity, new players does have the option of using training dolls, which provides enough preparation for those wolves and lions.

I agree that buffing new players is not the only solution. As far as I know most animals can outrun new players though and the use of guards/water as a defence isn't explained at all. Perhaps adding a short section to the tutorial about these would help?

Yay.. I can give opinion now

For the Fight Skill issue, part of the problem is that you could very well get lucky with the Random Number Generator (RNGâ„¢) and kill that lion or wolf. Part of it is that animals age in Wurm, and depending on what age the animal is in when you encounter it, will have a huge impact on how well you do against it.

As a new player (just entering the game) you are encouraged to stay near the starter town/areas which generally have guards to assist you (either tower guards you have to /say Help, or Spirit Templars who come kill anything that is aggro). This "fear of death/dismemberment" can be a good thing and will help show the new player, the world will kick you butt if you're not careful.

I can't remember being encouraged to stay in the starting area, but that may have been my own misconceptions about the Epic cluster as a PvP server. As I mentioned in my reply to Elias, perhaps the tutorial could include some information about calling guards/hiding in water? I think it would help new players feel less helpless at least, even if they aren't fighting the animals they'll know how to avoid them.

As to skilling up, there are ways already in-game to do this with no risk to the character (practice dummies and archery targets) which you can make or buy from other players.

These tools exist yes, but their difficulty to make isn't proportionate to the level of player they are intended for, the requirement of rope for archery targets and pumpkins for practice dummies come to mind. Both things which are not readibly accessible to newbs but are required for equipment intended for those newbs. I'd advocate changing these items drop the rope/pumpkin requirement or add in "crude" versions which cause more damage to weapons/arrows or take more damage themselves.

Does this help a new player/character? Nope.. at least not until they make their way, (usually running and screaming) to the nearest guards/town and have a chance to get their barrings. And while I'll be the first to admit it irritated me as well.. it made me want to defeat the world all that much more... As a FYI, my first death in game... falling off a cliff and down the hill west of the Howl...running from wolves...

My first 5 or so were trying to travel to a quiet place away from other players and encountering all manner of beasties I believe in a dangerous world, but think that "dangerous" spawns in newb areas should be less common than they currently are, or that ways of escaping/protecting yourself should be explained during the tutorial.

[Hussars 511]

These tools exist yes, but their difficulty to make isn't proportionate to the level of player they are intended for, the requirement of rope for archery targets and pumpkins for practice dummies come to mind. Both things which are not readibly accessible to newbs but are required for equipment intended for those newbs. I'd advocate changing these items drop the rope/pumpkin requirement or add in "crude" versions which cause more damage to weapons/arrows or take more damage themselves.

My first 5 or so were trying to travel to a quiet place away from other players and encountering all manner of beasties I believe in a dangerous world, but think that "dangerous" spawns in newb areas should be less common than they currently are, or that ways of escaping/protecting yourself should be explained during the tutorial.

Hmm, I think it might also be a playstyle and server choice issue. It sounds like you're trying to solo the gameplay as much as possible (nothing wrong with this) on the Epic server, but this server tends to have lower populations and less "deeded" land which impacts both the number of creatures you'll run into, and makes it more likely they'll be in an older age bracket. As well as Epic, is..well, Epic. The creatures are a lot tougher, and there are things there that are only on Epic. [edit insert: While everyone's playstyle is up to them, the game does STRONGLY encourage interdependence and group/team play especially in combat until you have more understanding of the actual mechanics used in the game]

On the positive side, you'll skill up really fast (epic has a skill advancement curve in place).

I do agree though, the tutorial (known to be incomplete - think there is a message during the tutorial that says this as well) could use a bit more information about self protection (both general combat/use of guards, and PVP)

Edited September 13, 2012 by Hussars

[Tekari 133]

^ I agree with MrGARY

[alaskanbob 225]

I don't understand how you can't consider 0-9 quickslot keys as a basic UI function when they have been common in both RPG and MMO genre's since at least 2003. Using a UI element to prop up a material market seems to point to poor design. I maintain that the lack of a 0-9 slot for new players is simply an irritation that doesn't add to any gameplay or difficulty whatsoever and serves only to annoy.

I disagree. Toolbelts are a vital element of the leatherworking skill set. Wurm is not like other RPG's ~ MMO's. & I'll stop playing the day it turns into one. While you may only start out with a 2 slot one high ql ones can be purchased for a reasonable price. Friending someone who is a leatherworker may also be another means of obtaining a better one. You may master another skillset and have something to offer him in return. Its all about give and take. This game encourages cooperation among the community.

I agree that buffing new players is not the only solution. As far as I know most animals can outrun new players though and the use of guards/water as a defence isn't explained at all. Perhaps adding a short section to the tutorial about these would help?

If you are loaded down with gear they'll catch you. If however you aren't the only animals you should worry about at least on freedom are Hell Hounds and Crocs. Hell hounds are fairly visible and if you swim for it you'll be fine. Crocs ..Try and trap them on a wall.

I can't remember being encouraged to stay in the starting area, but that may have been my own misconceptions about the Epic cluster as a PvP server. As I mentioned in my reply to Elias, perhaps the tutorial could include some information about calling guards/hiding in water? I think it would help new players feel less helpless at least, even if they aren't fighting the animals they'll know how to avoid them.

Tutorial is whacky but Wurm is all about the learning experience. I enjoyed running around exploring and even dying my first few days. I met lots of people. Some of whom were nice enough to patch me up after being ninja'd by a spider. Ask questions ~ people will help if you are polite about it. We were all at that helpless stage at one point in another and it wasn't always a bad thing.

These tools exist yes, but their difficulty to make isn't proportionate to the level of player they are intended for, the requirement of rope for archery targets and pumpkins for practice dummies come to mind. Both things which are not readibly accessible to newbs but are required for equipment intended for those newbs. I'd advocate changing these items drop the rope/pumpkin requirement or add in "crude" versions which cause more damage to weapons/arrows or take more damage themselves.

Never underestimate the power of simply asking someone along your travels if they could spare a pumkin or rope. Most people won't be bothered too much. Joining a village will give you the added benefit of the added time and growth put into the area so you will have some means of protection and they can help you out in small ways such as those you mentioned. Going solo is viable but it can be more challenging at times.

My first 5 or so were trying to travel to a quiet place away from other players and encountering all manner of beasties I believe in a dangerous world, but think that "dangerous" spawns in newb areas should be less common than they currently are, or that ways of escaping/protecting yourself should be explained during the tutorial.

Wurm unlike WoW doesn't have easy mode.

[Zeroaus 0]

Binding multiple items to one key is essentially a macro which is against the rules afaik.

[Wiro 370]

I don't mind tying UI actions to in-game items as it was put a couple posts above, as long as the option exists.

[Jochim 3]

I don't mind tying UI actions to in-game items as it was put a couple posts above, as long as the option exists.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Jochim

[atazs 965]

I don't mind UI functions that make sense being tied to in-game items, but 0-9 is pretty basic stuff. Keeping it away from new players only serves to make the game look and feel bad. I also don't think that saying toolbelts are the only thing that makes leatherworking worthwhile is a valid argument. All that argument shows us is that the leatherworking skill is underdeveloped or poorly implemented, just like the current UI system.

Which is why I said some specific keybinds should be merged. Not that players should be able to bind whatever they want to a single key. As I suggested, Just combining the Finish and Improve keybinds would be nice, without any advantage other than opening up a key for another binding.

Edited September 17, 2012 by atazs

[Jochim 3]

Leatherworking is fine as it is and so is the UI. This isnt wow where you get a huge action bar and then bind all sorts of actions for that. No wurm is not your generic MMO. Be glad you even have a 9(10) slot toolbelt because 1 year ago or so the max we had was 6 slots at 60ql. With 1 slot at 20ql and new players didnt start with a toolbelt. I agree that the tutorial needs to explain the game a bit more especially after it drops you in the starter zone but thats about it.

I don't play WoW. I have however played several games that have been released after 1990 and I assure you its quite a common occurence in game design (not just in MMOs) to not make your UI as annoying as possible, especially for new players.

[Hussars 511]

I think part of the issue remains, player expectation.

For long time Wurm players, this was not part of the basic functionality. From the stance of the design, this was never really meant to be a "friendly" game. Over time, it has become, (well maybe not domesticated - but more tolerant?) of players and a bit more approachable. After playing for a while, I've found (and had this mirrored/mentioned by others) that more than 5-6 slots is nice, but not needed. Honestly, in most cases 3-4 slots is more than you need, since everything has weight, you will likely start finding yourself limiting what you carry and becoming more specific task oriented in your outings.

On the PVP servers even more so as there is a real risk of loss if you're carrying all of your best gear everywhere.

I think the other part is that modern MMO's do tend to spoil people/players in an effort to gain a more mass market appeal. We've gotten used to the idea that a tool belt/slot system = tools and command short cuts, and not just used for tools/items. In faster paced games this type of combined shortcut UI is more important, and in some cases vital, in Wurm (Watching Grass Grow Onlineâ„¢) this becomes a much smaller issue. These types of items tend to promote a "Must do it faster" mindset, which will drive you mad in Wurm, since no matter how quickly you can change items in use, you still have timers on pretty much everything.

That said, the UI could use a revamp in some areas (click economy being one), however it is a solid presentation. It also falls to the mindset and expectations of the user needing to be better prepared for the reasoning behind it (and the reality of it) as it exists.

[Tekari 133]

In most other MMOs you have like 8 to 40 different skills/spells you need to have on your action bar so you can reach them in a second when fighting.

Now believe me, in games like LotRO I always was short in slots in my action bar.

But here in Wurm you simply don't need that. You don't have to switch between 20 different tools in every second. In Wurm you need time.

And in general... comparing Wurm to any other MMORPG is a mistake. Wurm just isn't your typical MMORPG...

And that's exactly what the majority of the players like about this game.

(I agree however that some parts of the UI need some tweaking)

[Jochim 3]

In most other MMOs you have like 8 to 40 different skills/spells you need to have on your action bar so you can reach them in a second when fighting.

Now believe me, in games like LotRO I always was short in slots in my action bar.

But here in Wurm you simply don't need that. You don't have to switch between 20 different tools in every second. In Wurm you need time.

And in general... comparing Wurm to any other MMORPG is a mistake. Wurm just isn't your typical MMORPG...

And that's exactly what the majority of the players like about this game.

(I agree however that some parts of the UI need some tweaking)

Which is why most MMOs generally have Alt and Ctrl action bars as well, that is not what i'm suggesting. My problem is that it turns completing a task into "find and seek" for newbs, any RPG UI that forces you to actively look for something you need is a bad one. Additionally it just feels bad activating tools with the mouse even after finding them.

[atazs 965]

Which is why most MMOs generally have Alt and Ctrl action bars as well, that is not what i'm suggesting. My problem is that it turns completing a task into "find and seek" for newbs, any RPG UI that forces you to actively look for something you need is a bad one. Additionally it just feels bad activating tools with the mouse even after finding them.

Edited September 18, 2012 by atazs

[Hussars 511]

Okay, think this will be my last post on this..

Which is why most MMOs generally have Alt and Ctrl action bars as well, that is not what i'm suggesting. [...]

Edited September 18, 2012 by Hussars

[Jochim 3]

Okay, think this will be my last post on this..

Isn't this what you asked for here?

[Jochim 3]

Sorry i wasnt clear earlier. I didnt mean only MMO's i meant ALL GAMES. Wurm is different. Its a special game. Its not like any other games out there and thats what makes it special. Do not compare wurm to any MMO's RPGs or anything like that.

I'm sorry but i'm not sure if you're joking. Wurm isn't special in any way you seem to think. There are a few unique aspects, but it contains the core elements to pretty much every RPG ever as well as some elements key to MMOs, to say otherwise is to be wilfully ignorant.

I'm not sure if you meant to but you quoted from my reply to Tekari, who was arguing that because MMOs have many more spells than wurm they have action bars built in, that was why I pointed out they also have Ctrl and Alt bars which I am most definitely not advocating.