Municipal worker NPCs

[TheTrickster 2,290]

This is essentially more of a cosmetic suggestion than anything.

 

Have NPCs performing animations on deeds to reflect what upkeep is paying for.  Make them maybe as interactive as tower guards, maybe a little more (would like to see the guards a little more interactive as well).

 

These are the people who light the lamps, fix the fences, wash the windows, sweep the streets etc.   Number of NPCs on a deed could be a function of the deed size, and possibly even the length of upkeep.  

 

The idea is simply to give villages and towns a more lively atmosphere.

 

Possibly even hire them like spirit templars, but of course WAY cheaper because they don't add any actual functionality.

 

Or maybe they could also serve as a kind of mobile deed token for citizens.  

[Zera 175]

I can't say I like the idea of random NPCs just roaming/lurking about on Deeds.
Ruins the idea or presentation that Wurm's world is Player Made and Player Run. Having random NPCs just idling walking around and appearing to do tasks around a Deed to look like they're being productive, even if it's just for show.

[TheTrickster 2,290]

But ghosts, merchants, wagoners and tower guards are fine?

 

[Zera 175]

2 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

But ghosts, merchants, wagoners and tower guards are fine?

 

I didn't say that, but there's also no reason to add onto either.
Tower Guards, Spirit Templars serve a protection purpose. Wagoners were added for convenience and while they're nice and even I'll admit I've used them, I do feel they were not needed. Merchants also provide a use and do come in handy for that "I'm not online, you are online, here's what I'm offering to sell".
They all serve an actual purpose. What you're proposing is just random, non-useful AI NPCs that just wander around to appear as if there's more people around then there is. 🤷‍♀️

 

I'm afraid this question/argument though is like saying "I stubbed my pinky toe on the coffee table, might as well jam the other one on there too!".

[DannyUK 212]

I'm all for making the deed more lively, the only lively thing on my deed is the wagoneer chatting away to me 😁

 

I'm sure it won't hurt to have something like this and maybe disable them if not wanted or if bought then don't buy them.

[kordethbludscythe 762]

I agree that we could use a few cosmetic or useful npc's for our deeds, let us face the obvious many of us have deeds that have no citizens and would really appreciate something to liven up the place or even a npc worker that could slowly do little things like tend gardens/orchards or slowly make things like building parts or collect resources at a reduced ql. I think it would be awesome to see a guy walk around and light all my lanterns as dark approachs and then when morning arrives go around and snuff them all or even a guy that goes around my water's edge randomly fishing with a fishing net or a fishing pole or occassionly pulling out a canoe and slowly trawling through my canals for fish(they dont actually have to provide fish but just be cosmetic like that) heck i would pay coin for a fisherman type cosmetic NPC just so my shoreline looks in use

i do also believe that adding npcs to the village would count against the citizen count too so that someone would not be able to just go overkill with it

[TheTrickster 2,290]

12 hours ago, Zera said:

I didn't say that, but there's also no reason to add onto either.
Tower Guards, Spirit Templars serve a protection purpose. Wagoners were added for convenience and while they're nice and even I'll admit I've used them, I do feel they were not needed. Merchants also provide a use and do come in handy for that "I'm not online, you are online, here's what I'm offering to sell".
They all serve an actual purpose. What you're proposing is just random, non-useful AI NPCs that just wander around to appear as if there's more people around then there is. 🤷‍♀️

 

I'm afraid this question/argument though is like saying "I stubbed my pinky toe on the coffee table, might as well jam the other one on there too!".

I was making a genuine point, but I was also making a wee joke.  Hopefully I didn't offend.

 

I would argue that Deed NPCs DO serve a very important function.  One thing that seems to come up reasonably regularly when people either review the game or try it and leave and at least can be bothered to explain their reason is that the deserted feel.  It isn't the lack of infrastructure it is the lack of other characters. 

 

Also, I did suggest actual in-game functions as well - at least a couple and I can think of more.  Put a practice dummy or two in a building, a deed NPC could be a tutor.  You might even need to pay them a bit (which goes into upkeep) and get better skill gain than just training alone.  Or you could spar with one, similarly.   You could have an on-deed on-player bridge building ability by telling a deed "employee" to "hold this a minute".  You could access the deed token and the deed notice board (if there is one) by asking an NPC questions, and perform some of the functions by giving them instructions.  Don't bother with mooring a boat if your deed has dock areas (we don't have docks, but many have areas that function that way - just need cleats for this).  Just sail up to the spot and disembark.  A deed NPC dock worker will have you moored in a jiffy.  Give them a tip when you board and as soon as you start sailing, you will be automatically unmoored.  Lots of QoL improvements available on-deed so that upkeep does more than just keep the deed rented.

8 hours ago, kordethbludscythe said:

i do also believe that adding npcs to the village would count against the citizen count too so that someone would not be able to just go overkill with it

Yeah, good idea.  

[TheTrickster 2,290]

Sell NPC contracts, and for interactions have players charged some small amount, with the money going into upkeep, less a tax to the kingdom coffers.

[Zera 175]

35 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

the deserted feel.  It isn't the lack of infrastructure it is the lack of other characters. 

I don't think a few NPCs is going to alleviate that feeling that no one is around when they're playing.
An NPC is not the same as another player and can't interact like other people do. We're social creatures by nature, NPCs can't exactly fill that void need for interaction with other people. 

 

Wurm's problem in this area is that there's too many maps, too much space and too few players in relation.
It's kind of a Catch-22 situation, need people to populate the empty space but no one wants to populate an empty space. 🤷‍♀️
I personally have a few deeds standing in my area on Cadence but I have not once seen anyone who actually belongs to those deeds. I wanted company so I recruited some folks to join me at my deed. We're now 6 people strong and 2 of them are brand new to the game (having only 3-4hrs into the game before coming to join me).
My latest was drawn to the idea of working with others as a team. An NPC can't fill that desire like another player can.

[TheTrickster 2,290]

21 hours ago, Zera said:

My latest was drawn to the idea of working with others as a team. An NPC can't fill that desire like another player can.

Absolutely true.

21 hours ago, Zera said:

It's kind of a Catch-22 situation, need people to populate the empty space but no one wants to populate an empty space. 

Also, true.  NPCs won't resolve that, but might help to alleviate it a little.  NPCs almost invariably add a bit of atmosphere.  Even if all they do is keep people around long enough for a few to coincide and connect, that can start a dynamic where there actually are more people populating the space.  

21 hours ago, Zera said:

An NPC is not the same as another player and can't interact like other people do. We're social creatures by nature, NPCs can't exactly fill that void need for interaction with other people. 

But from what I have experienced in WO and WU, is that often players are quite social without crossing paths in local at all.  We have that social interaction, but lack the visual character interactions that are interesting.  Real players are far better, but NPC are not nothing in that regard.

 

I get that you don't see this adding anything positive.  That's your view and you are entitled to it.  I don't agree that it would ruin anything, though, unless you count emptiness and silence.  Players interact with guards simply for the fun of it.  There is a reason for that. 

 

Wurm's world is already not totally player made or player run, it is partially both.  Deed NPC's would be player made as much as towers are, or markets might be a better example.  They wouldn't be compulsory but would be contracts that are bought, so any given deed could go without them completely, but the mayors who would like them can have them - in keeping with Wurm being an open world where each player finds their own path.

Edited July 22, 2023 by TheTrickster
new thought, new paragraph

[antonslavick 137]

It can be enjoyable to have a lively village atmosphere. We currently have wagoners who say random things in the chat, and it would be even better to have some NPCs wandering around the village.

[TheTrickster 2,290]

On 7/22/2023 at 2:48 AM, kordethbludscythe said:

I think it would be awesome to see a guy walk around and light all my lanterns as dark approachs

This is almost exactly the first thing I picture for this.  A town lamplighter.

 

I also thought, since many people change their grass to lawn - someone needs to keep trimmng that.  Also the hedges would start looking pretty woolly unless someone keeps them nice.

 

Oh, and our local wagoner Rebecca is sometimes the only person chatting in local.

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by TheTrickster

[Darnok 218]

On 7/21/2023 at 11:43 AM, TheTrickster said:

This is essentially more of a cosmetic suggestion than anything.

 

Have NPCs performing animations on deeds to reflect what upkeep is paying for.  Make them maybe as interactive as tower guards, maybe a little more (would like to see the guards a little more interactive as well).

 

These are the people who light the lamps, fix the fences, wash the windows, sweep the streets etc.   Number of NPCs on a deed could be a function of the deed size, and possibly even the length of upkeep.  

 

The idea is simply to give villages and towns a more lively atmosphere.

 

Possibly even hire them like spirit templars, but of course WAY cheaper because they don't add any actual functionality.

 

Or maybe they could also serve as a kind of mobile deed token for citizens.  

 

Let's go further. Instead of a fixed cost of deed, I suggest breaking it down into smaller parts.
And so, when hiring an NPC to repair fence, we pay him x/month.
Builder would repair buildings, chests, etc. for a small fee too.
Miner would prevent collapse of mine tunnel under deed.
Shepherd boy would replant grass trampled by animals and refill bowls.
Farmer helper would point out tile that needs attention and, for example, protect crops against pests that could be added.
etc

Edited July 24, 2023 by Darnok

[TheTrickster 2,290]

No, I think then this would no longer be an option meant for adding atmosphere and become a necessary cost structure for people who may only want their deed upkeep to function as usual, or who may actively dislike deed NPCs.

 

I try to make suggestions that people can opt in to have, rather than ones that change defaults and force people to opt out, or worse remain in a system they don't want.  The aim is to not affect the people who are happy with the status quo while offering something to those who want something more. 

[Tairon 65]

On 22/07/2023 at 04:21, Zera said:

 

 

Wurm's problem in this area is that there's too many maps, too much space and too few players in relation.
 

I would like to challenge this base hypothesis and say WURM is a soloplayer-MMORPG. Sounds weird but not unheard of. Elite dangerous is kind of the same. Incredibly large space, no need for interaction with others.

 

The number of incidents of enforced cooperative behavior is quite low. Rifts, Rites, Holy Sites, Sermons, Champions, that’s about it. The rest might require a person with better skills, but no cooperative behavior. There are some optional objectives that greatly benefit from cooperative behavior like task splitting in production chains, running active & successful ingame market places, community projects like bridges, canals, impalongs. But that’s about it on PVE servers. The rest is solo gaming in a persistent world and it is this by design.

 

NPCs for immersion only are truly nice idea but developement resource intensive. I would tie their number to the activity of the village players and the upkeep. Hence, the NPCs, or better their absence, would be an indicator for a soon to disband deed.

 

I could even imagine carefully designed functional NPC, as servant producers for bulk commodities. I am fully aware of the can of wurms (pun intended)i am talking about. therefore i don’t spill ideas on that.

[Miretta 1,415]

I think, so far all the type of humanoid NPCs we have, have very specific functions that would look weird if there wasn't a person behind it, but I think when it comes to decorative, I would rather see something like "enslaving goblins" whom could perform some of the really low effort but tedious tasks on deed. 
either visually to fuel and light lamps as example or with an actual function like making certain bulk items very slowly.
I do feel wurm is missing out on some potential uses for taming/dominating and humanoids in general...we can "capture" horses and such and breed them, but not humanoids.

[Vorticella 958]

I like the idea of adding more npcs and more interaction with the ones we already have. I like applauding guards after a fight and seeing them bow, it's very charming

 

A while ago someone suggested a groundskeeper npc that you would need to provide with housing and meals. I love this idea, and it could work with this suggestion. I can imagine them going into their house at the end of the day and coming back out in the morning. Having to provide a home for them would make it so they are still effectively player created. They would also only be there when players are active, assuming they'd leave when their larder is empty for too long, but could be called back again later.

 

In order to make the world feel more lively I think it's important to have the npcs connected to player activity in some way. I noticed that wagoner chatter in local doesn't add any sense of liveliness, but seeing them travel on the road does. I think it's because they only travel on the road when a player has triggered that to happen, vs the idle chatter that happens all the time by itself. So if the maintenance npcs have to be kept fed, it would be a little sign that someone is active on that deed, just like when we see crops in fields we know someone has been around recently.

[Miretta 1,415]

37 minutes ago, Vorticella said:

I like the idea of adding more npcs and more interaction with the ones we already have. I like applauding guards after a fight and seeing them bow, it's very charming

 

A while ago someone suggested a groundskeeper npc that you would need to provide with housing and meals. I love this idea, and it could work with this suggestion. I can imagine them going into their house at the end of the day and coming back out in the morning. Having to provide a home for them would make it so they are still effectively player created. They would also only be there when players are active, assuming they'd leave when their larder is empty for too long, but could be called back again later.

 

In order to make the world feel more lively I think it's important to have the npcs connected to player activity in some way. I noticed that wagoner chatter in local doesn't add any sense of liveliness, but seeing them travel on the road does. I think it's because they only travel on the road when a player has triggered that to happen, vs the idle chatter that happens all the time by itself. So if the maintenance npcs have to be kept fed, it would be a little sign that someone is active on that deed, just like when we see crops in fields we know someone has been around recently.

I love the idea of having to provide for them! ❤️ 
I could even see this as possible expansions on skills we currently have, like changing animal husbandry to husbandry or to add new skills
(honestly, why are taming, husbandry, milking not part of the same category?)

[TheTrickster 2,290]

7 hours ago, Miretta said:

I would rather see something like "enslaving goblins" whom could perform some of the really low effort but tedious tasks on deed. 

No, thanks.  I am picturing paid workers, not slaves.  I do NOT want slaves in Wurm.

[TheTrickster 2,290]

11 hours ago, Vorticella said:

I like the idea of adding more npcs and more interaction with the ones we already have. I like applauding guards after a fight and seeing them bow, it's very charming

 

A while ago someone suggested a groundskeeper npc that you would need to provide with housing and meals. I love this idea, and it could work with this suggestion. I can imagine them going into their house at the end of the day and coming back out in the morning. Having to provide a home for them would make it so they are still effectively player created. They would also only be there when players are active, assuming they'd leave when their larder is empty for too long, but could be called back again later.

 

In order to make the world feel more lively I think it's important to have the npcs connected to player activity in some way. I noticed that wagoner chatter in local doesn't add any sense of liveliness, but seeing them travel on the road does. I think it's because they only travel on the road when a player has triggered that to happen, vs the idle chatter that happens all the time by itself. So if the maintenance npcs have to be kept fed, it would be a little sign that someone is active on that deed, just like when we see crops in fields we know someone has been around recently.

I like the idea of providing them housing - at minimum a bed in a building (the combinations there could be interesting).  I think providing food would be terrific, but I don't know about meals in a larder.  There are WU crafter NPCs (not something I am suggesting here) that you must provide with a forge for them to smith.  Providing staff with a bed in a building with kitchen facilities in the form of an oven and a FSB that you need to stock would be great, though.   If you don't have a bed for them you can't hire hem.  If you don't stock the FSB then they will be too busy working on getting their own food to do any work around the deed.  

I also think that some of them would be given individual tasks directly - like a dockworker mooring your vessels, or transferring your cargo from the ship to a BSB/Crate on shore; you pay them some token amount for the job (like paying for mail) which goes partly to upkeep and partly to coffers.

[Darnok 218]

17 hours ago, Miretta said:

I think, so far all the type of humanoid NPCs we have, have very specific functions that would look weird if there wasn't a person behind it, but I think when it comes to decorative, I would rather see something like "enslaving goblins" whom could perform some of the really low effort but tedious tasks on deed. 
either visually to fuel and light lamps as example or with an actual function like making certain bulk items very slowly.
I do feel wurm is missing out on some potential uses for taming/dominating and humanoids in general...we can "capture" horses and such and breed them, but not humanoids.

 

One of my old ideas 😉

 

 

[Vorticella 958]

7 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Providing staff with a bed in a building with kitchen facilities in the form of an oven and a FSB that you need to stock would be great

 

The reason I suggested meals is because it's so easy to stock a FSB with tens of thousands of ingredients which don't expire. Since the larder is more limited it requires regular player input. That naturally connects the presence of that npc to the presence of active players, which is key to making the place feel more alive.

[TheTrickster 2,290]

1 hour ago, Vorticella said:

 

The reason I suggested meals is because it's so easy to stock a FSB with tens of thousands of ingredients which don't expire. Since the larder is more limited it requires regular player input. That naturally connects the presence of that npc to the presence of active players, which is key to making the place feel more alive.

Good point.  I just didn't want to make too much of a chore to feed them.  Unless I can hire one as a cook and give THEM the ingredients  🤣.     I am mindful of how tedious a chicken coop is due to the need for constantly adding food and I wouldn't want that to happen.  Maybe some specific consumable like flour, or cooking oil, or fuel even.  <shrugging>  I like the idea of provisioning them in a way that means player activity keeps the NPCs active, but realistically is should take very little player activity because a deed full of active players has less need of NPCs for atmosphere while a one-person deed has more need of them and that one person likely has enough other stuff to do.  I am not against the larder idea, just grasping for something a little less like a chore.

 

EDIT:  Maybe a specific barrel as part of the NPC quarters, lowish capacity and lowish decay. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by TheTrickster

[TheTrickster 2,290]

3 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

One of my old ideas 😉

 

 

Please no captive workers.   Honestly, slavery is so abhorent we shouldn't have it in a game.

[Vorticella 958]

1 hour ago, TheTrickster said:

Good point.  I just didn't want to make too much of a chore to feed them.  Unless I can hire one as a cook and give THEM the ingredients  🤣.     I am mindful of how tedious a chicken coop is due to the need for constantly adding food and I wouldn't want that to happen.  Maybe some specific consumable like flour, or cooking oil, or fuel even.  <shrugging>  I like the idea of provisioning them in a way that means player activity keeps the NPCs active, but realistically is should take very little player activity because a deed full of active players has less need of NPCs for atmosphere while a one-person deed has more need of them and that one person likely has enough other stuff to do.  I am not against the larder idea, just grasping for something a little less like a chore.

 

EDIT:  Maybe a specific barrel as part of the NPC quarters, lowish capacity and lowish decay. 

 

I totally 100% agree on the chicken coop issue. It shouldn't be too much of a chore to maintain the npcs and I can see how it would get tedious to keep up with making meals for them.

 

It could be that you just need to keep a supply of food ingredients in a special type of storage container as you suggested (personally I'd prefer a cupboard over a barrel but that's just details). It could just work the same as a small crate with no decay but limited storage. It should only require input at most once per week. Maybe better quality ingredients make the groundskeeper stay longer, up to a month at a time or something like that.