Municipal worker NPCs

[Zera 175]

This is what I'm seeing/picturing/hearing so far from this thread's discussion and keep in mind this is just my take on what's being said:
 

Quote

• Add NPCs that do actual tasks around a deed, lighten our work load on a Deed and take over or substitute having other players to assist in Deed functions/actions/tasks.
• Require some very minimal maintenance for these NPCs to actually function, a bed, maybe some ingredients and possibly even allow one of them to cook for me because I don't want to have to cook to feed them. It's simply too much work, just like having a chicken coop is too much work to keep chickens.
• Larger Groups of players will have less of a need for NPCs to do tasks, because real people can do it instead. BUT that doesn't mean they couldn't have a bunch of NPCs to just do it for them instead, because ultimately who wants to sit around and make bricks and mortar all day or terraform that piece of deed, or spend forever tending and harvesting a large farm (which feeds everyone, including these NPCs).

 

This discussion went a complete 180 from "cosmetic" NPCs to make things look more lively to instead having AI NPCs doing actual chores with minimal input from players to keep them active and working on projects they'll be designated/hired to do.

 

Here's my biggest issue with this.
NPCs are now on a turning point to complete tasks that are given to them by the player with what sounds like minimal requirements being met to do those tasks.
What's the argument here? A Bed and some Food? Or at the very least, ingredients to assign cooking to an NPC?
So what's to say that job assignment couldn't straight up be:

1. You Farm
2. You Cook
3. You Mine
4. You Make Bricks
5. You Build this Building

Automation right there to make a structure with the most input a player has is at most telling these NPCs what to do.
Now here's the other thing, you've got an NPC that's mining stone, you've got another one making bricks. There's the market for new players making bricks to sell to other players. I don't see that as a good thing.
You have an NPC set to dig your Clay/Tar/Peat/Dirt, surface mine or whatever it is... That's Labor jobs that other players are losing out on simply because you have an NPC you can minimally care for to do it for you. It's also not "Player shaped" anymore, it's NPC AI instructed.

Also add to the fact that even if my Deed has 10 people to it, why wouldn't I just add NPCs to my Deed as well so that we'd escalate production/activity to accomplish things?
I don't feel that there is any need for productive NPCs whether you are a 1 man Deed or a 50 man Deed. If you have a huge image in your head to accomplish some elaborate fortress of a single person deed, great! But, understand that as a 1 person Deed it's going to take you quite a lot of effort and time to accomplish that, you can recruit/hire assistance, outsource labor, whatever it is just fine. There are plenty of players out there, new players even who are eagerly looking for work or deeds to build these kinds of things with others.

 

In the past 2 weeks I have had 5 different people, returning or brand new to wurm join my Deed. None of these people are family or friends from outside the game. People are out there, 2/3 of my people not only are they brand new to wurm but they are eagerly looking for Work and ways to help build and shape this world we call Wurm.
I think adding NPCs that would complete any of these tasks that these players would otherwise be thrilled to do would be a negative impact rather than a positive.
If anyone could "hire" NPCs to do these tasks around the deed, why would they bother recruiting additional deed-mates when they could just get these NPCs to do the work for them? There wouldn't be a need to offer space for another player to have their own private home, it would be reduced to having an additional bed somewhere on deed so that this NPC would have somewhere to call "mine" and literally nothing more than that.

 

I'm sorry, but productive NPCs gets even a harder NO out of me than the appearance/cosmetic NPCs do.

[TheTrickster 2,290]

Thanks @Zera.

 

Some are suggesting labour saving functionality - but that is definitely not what I was or am suggesting.  At most, for funcitonality I am suggesting things like moving cargo between docks and boats or itneracting with the deed token from wherever - merely minor QoL stuff. 

 

I do not think that these NPCs should be producing anything. They should be about atmosphere.  Taking up a builidng and bed was also part of atmosphere.

 

You are right to call this out - the shift from cosmetic to functional.  I am not suggesting functional NPCs - aside from very minor QoL stuff that you wouldn't be getting another player to do anyway.

[Zera 175]

17 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Thanks @Zera.

 

Some are suggesting labour saving functionality - but that is definitely not what I was or am suggesting.  At most, for funcitonality I am suggesting things like moving cargo between docks and boats or itneracting with the deed token from wherever - merely minor QoL stuff. 

 

I do not think that these NPCs should be producing anything. They should be about atmosphere.  Taking up a builidng and bed was also part of atmosphere.

 

You are right to call this out - the shift from cosmetic to functional.  I am not suggesting functional NPCs - aside from very minor QoL stuff that you wouldn't be getting another player to do anyway.

As far as functionality goes:

1. I could accept lamp refilling and lighting as the sun sets and rises. Something that a Templar would do if you had one (supposedly anyway, I never keep them). You'd still have to keep a stash of fuel, whether it was oil, tar or whatever the like. They wouldn't gather it for you.
2. Perhaps having them as a sort of weaker guard system wouldn't be bad either, but they would only answer to call (or perhaps not require being called at all, just kind of auto-jump into action) if a member (or one of themselves) of their own Deed was being attacked, and they wouldn't be as strong as say a Guard Tower and definitely not as strong as a Templar.
   • Like Towers they could get stronger the more they survived fights. 🤔 Gear-able like towers but given that they belong to a deed, could not be equipped or looted by non-members of same deed.
   • Having them be a target to be hunted, no different than a player or a Prey-Animal like a Cow would add to that feel of "realism" without making them exactly like a player. Requiring players to be aware of their existence more than just "they're here, they provide semblance of activity" they need to be properly cared for and looked after, otherwise eaten/killed by hostiles.
3. Emptying/Refilling Chicken Coops? I could see that, maybe even filling them provided that food and water was made available to do so. Grains and Seeds in a FSB and a Well/Fountain or Barrel within X many tiles of said coop could be used for this purpose. This would be the same FSB that they'd deposit the eggs into after collecting them from a coop.
4. Deed Cleanup? I feel this one is a bit of a stretch but perhaps picking up items such as dropped wood-scraps or items that have started to decay (not things like chests mind you) and putting them into a Trash Heap or properly labelled container where the named container would be the "match result" destination.
   • So if you had a Crate or BSB or something name "Woodscrap" and they were laying around deed, they could pick them up and deposit them into the crate (so long as the crate was not behind a lock that did not allow deedmate access).
     • If there was no accessible Crate or BSB with a matching name found that could be accessed (or had available space), the items would be left until they started to take DMG and then would be put into a Trash Heap.

A few minor tasks and I mean just the bare-minimum tedious tasks but certainly nothing that says "take care of me" such as cooking or producing bulk items or performing tree-chopping/mining.

[TheTrickster 2,290]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:24 AM, Zera said:

A few minor tasks and I mean just the bare-minimum tedious tasks but certainly nothing that says "take care of me" such as cooking or producing bulk items or performing tree-chopping/mining.

 

Yes.  This.  Mostly the "tasks" are the stuff that is encompassed in upkeep so not something you have to actually do in game other than pay the upkeep - the premise being these are the people you are paying.

As to your points - they are all good, but here are some specific responses.

1. Currently on-deed lamps, torches and I think even candles remain full and automatically light, so this really is just to provide some animation to the deed by having characters doing what the game tells you is being done (i.e. upkeep). 
2. I hadn't thought of anything like this but it seems fair enough.  Being able to to provide clothing and equipment (or maybe even being required to do so) would be good. 
3. Seems good.  A player is still required to provide the food and water and have it available, but the NPC is merely keeping the coop supplied - this would alleviate some of the QoL problem that renders coops little more than decoration for many.
4. I am not even sure of the need for a crate or BSB to retain things - once something is left lying around long enough to take damage (beyond some very low threshold) have the NPC place it in a designated Trash Heap.  I am not against the idea of having a designated container but I think if people want to keep stuff they should keep it, not just drop it.  Maybe again it is only done when some damage occurs.

 

I am liking the idea of providing some kind of municipal building for these NPCs and their activity.  A cottage with a kitchen, a couple of beds, containers for equipment and supplies, a trash heap etc.  It could be a requirement that it be player made before NPC workers can be hired, and the supplies would be something a player must keep provisioned.  Considering that these would be needed more in places where the deeds have fewer people, it should not be a daily chore to provision, but something weekly-ish.  Heheh, like when the chickens all leave a coop when the food/water runs out, maybe the municipal workers could all go fishing when the food runs out, or sit on the porch doing nothing if equipment wears out (or there is less than a month of upkeep left).