People who are getting upset about the actions of the staff

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

People who are getting upset about the actions of the staff, you guys really need to grow up. You have to realise, this is *their* game. This game does not belong to you, it belongs to Rolf and his developers. And the CA's are appointed by those people given that power by Rolf, therefore you should respect them and do as they say. If they tell you to stop being immature in Kchat, then do it. You wouldn't like it very much if you got someone to look after your house when you went on holiday and they let people trash the place, same principle. CAs and GMs are here to care for Wurm and keep it working at peak efficiency, and it's just not right for people to argue with them. You guys should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Also, if you're nice to the CAs and you respect them, you'll find they give their all to help you out. If you're a headache for them, they'll return the favour tenfold. You want them to be nice? Be respectful. You don't own this game, Rolf does. Play by his rules.

</rant>

[Dextrome 123]

You have to realise, this is *their* game. This game does not belong to you, it belongs to Rolf and his developers.

Pretty sure the moderators have nothing to do with the development of the game lol... don't really see how it's *their* game.

Other than that I have no comments 

[ZaZ213 21]

Also, if you're nice to the CAs and you respect them, you'll find they give their all to help you out. If you're a headache for them, they'll return the favour tenfold.

This is the 'don't be an ass' rule that people always manage to not follow purposefully or not.

[SavageSaint 1]

I agree that public chat channels should be moderated, and that players should all follow the directions of staff, paid or otherwise, which are part of their role.

There is a problem though, in that there is no effective place for people who wish to have discussions which push the boundaries of what is acceptable in a public chat channel. To the extent of my knowledge, there is no way for an individual player to set up a conversation which multiple players from different villages and regions may participate in. Failing to provide the ability to invite players to a player made and moderated chat, or to join this chat without invitation is a serious flaw, in my opinion.

Providing a means for the players who wish to push the limits of what is socially acceptable in chat would go a long, long way towards reducing stress, workload and potential abuse of powers by staff and would reduce friction between staff, players, and other players.

Something to consider...

Lets not turn this into a CA, or staff bagging/kissup thread. It would go a long way toward actually solving the problem if people were to have an adult discussion...

[Skattemygel 0]

This game is neither ours nor the game developers. It is a shared, if there is no players there is no game and vice versa. The mods and gms have a responsibility towards the community to give us the best help they can. And we do have a responsibility towards the gms to not be stuck up brats.

But the threadstarter is just plain wrong to believe this is a game where Rolf can just do what he wants. I do believe he likes to share the game and improve it.

Otherwise I agree with the poster above, there should be player moderated conversations like village chat but across the server.

[Maximilus 0]

I know this topic is "sensitive" and probably the thread will be close soon, So don't take my comments as staff bashing or anything of the sort. Just pointing out what the flaw may be. The problem is that there is no consistency in between the moderation staff. What some consider "against" the rules, other don't and vice versa. Some may mute you while others simply will just friendly warn you on chat, for the same issue.

Also, some people do push the limits, even after warn, after other (not CA's) had told them numerous times to read the rule, to stop, etc etc., but nothing seen to happen, Even is half the chat ignores the person and it gets mute for that, another one picks it's place, making the /ignored/mute combo function obsolete.

What we do need is to get every CA on the same pages and have the Moderation be the same across the board, so person A, that don't say a word when CA 1 is on, but goes in raging party after CA 1 logs and CA 2 comes on, stops been an A only when specific CA's are online. And last, when people start arguing with the staff, on kchat, it looks bad on both of you, not only the original perpetrator.

Disclaimer: I'm not making any type of accusations against anyone, just making a comment on the situation as I was online when this happen yesterday on kchat. I'm not posting the chat logs due to the simple fact that it will be consider "fixed" to fit the situation, even if it's not. Take this as you will.

[Wossoo 1,915]

Okay,

I suppose I will address the tjemes which have arisen so far.

I won't lock this thread at the moment but if that does happen you can still send in your thoughts via PM to me, any of the other GM or Oracle, but bear in mind that Oracle gets alot of PM so PMing a GM should be more effective.

I know this topic is "sensitive" and probably the thread will be close soon, So don't take my comments as staff bashing or anything of the sort. Just pointing out what the flaw may be. The problem is that there is no consistency in between the moderation staff. What some consider "against" the rules, other don't and vice versa. Some may mute you while others simply will just friendly warn you on chat, for the same issue.

Also, some people do push the limits, even after warn, after other (not CA's) had told them numerous times to read the rule, to stop, etc etc., but nothing seen to happen, Even is half the chat ignores the person and it gets mute for that, another one picks it's place, making the /ignored/mute combo function obsolete.

What we do need is to get every CA on the same pages and have the Moderation be the same across the board, so person A, that don't say a word when CA 1 is on, but goes in raging party after CA 1 logs and CA 2 comes on, stops been an A only when specific CA's are online. And last, when people start arguing with the staff, on kchat, it looks bad on both of you, not only the original perpetrator.

Disclaimer: I'm not making any type of accusations against anyone, just making a comment on the situation as I was online when this happen yesterday on kchat. I'm not posting the chat logs due to the simple fact that it will be consider "fixed" to fit the situation, even if it's not. Take this as you will.

I know what you mean, and i've seen it before. As a team, we have guidelines and policies and we try to follow them. Obviously, since our moderators are volunteer it is more difficult to strictly enforce these policies but when they are broken we do get reminded, especially when there are complaints sent to Oracle.

Secondly, some of the rules are deliberately left open to a degree of interpretation so that people can't dance on the borderline. Our guidelines outside of the rules are meant to govern the grey areas somewhat, and make them more clear to us.

One of our guidelines is not to get involved in arguments with players in public chats. Obviously there can be disagreement, but we should do our best to keep it out the public sphere because as you rightly said it looks bad on both.

I agree that public chat channels should be moderated, and that players should all follow the directions of staff, paid or otherwise, which are part of their role.

There is a problem though, in that there is no effective place for people who wish to have discussions which push the boundaries of what is acceptable in a public chat channel. To the extent of my knowledge, there is no way for an individual player to set up a conversation which multiple players from different villages and regions may participate in. Failing to provide the ability to invite players to a player made and moderated chat, or to join this chat without invitation is a serious flaw, in my opinion.

Providing a means for the players who wish to push the limits of what is socially acceptable in chat would go a long, long way towards reducing stress, workload and potential abuse of powers by staff and would reduce friction between staff, players, and other players.

Something to consider...

Lets not turn this into a CA, or staff bagging/kissup thread. It would go a long way toward actually solving the problem if people were to have an adult discussion...

This is what the ingame irc function is for. Try typing irc in the console. You can then create a channel for any purpose which any people can join, ingame or out of game. This function is not used to its potential I think. Maybe it needs some more publicity?

[Jericho 60]

The in-game IRC is a lazy workaround. Need real in-game chat channels that are player-made. Every time I type /fsleep into the IRC by accident, Fo kills a kitten. Being able to have an "alliance chat" means having to explain to villagers young and old alike how to edit their autoruns to launch it, join the IRC, et cetera. Half of them can't or won't. Sometimes the IRC doesn't connect. I got banned for being a bot in IRC for a night, once, when I only use it on my alt to still talk to my village friends and a few deeds in  the surrounding area.

I have always been of the (much controversial) opinion that the moderation should be kept to a minimum. We have swear filters, we have ignore, let the players in general police themselves. Keep the CMs there to mute spammers or people typing in ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME FOR THE NEXT 10 LINES, not people who use caps in a few words of a sentence.

Muting for saying "lmfao" or "wtf" is just... man. What.

Also yeah, need to work on rules across the board. Things that apply to one should apply to all, and all the CMs should be on the same page.

Just gonna leave this here.  ;D

Secondly, some of the rules are deliberately left open to a degree of interpretation so that people can't dance on the borderline. Our guidelines outside of the rules are meant to govern the grey areas somewhat, and make them more clear to us.

Open to degrees of interpretation also means that one moderator will mute you, while another may not. I'd rather stand by solid rules than have a chance of being muterated by someone having a bad day! 

[Protunia 735]

If you are going to play with fire sometimes you are going to get burned.

Thats just the way it is.

[Jericho 60]

Protunia you are a fine person and a valuable member of the wurm community. Could you please explain your post for me? I am having some trouble understanding 

[Wossoo 1,915]

We don't mute for wtf, lmfao etc. now.

However, if acronyms etc. are used intentionally to disrupt chat and/or offend others and break the rules then that is a different story.

[Jericho 60]

Ah, good to hear.

I think a translator that automatically turns bad words into hilarious, Wurm-swear words would be amazing.

[Wossoo 1,915]

The problem we have is less with the words per se and more with their intention.

Alternatives could work but not if used as a substitute for real words to offend someone or such like that.

[Klaa 4,872]

Ah, good to hear.

I think a translator that automatically turns bad words into hilarious, Wurm-swear words would be amazing.

[Jericho 60]

I remember UO Curse. It was fun.  ;D

Team fortress 2 also has a hilarious built in translator for its medieval style melee-only map. Pyro becomes Pyromancer, "lol" becomes "lolleth" or "I say, that is full of mirth!" and so on. Spy became Brigand or Rogue.

I believe SA also does it, turning the F word into "loving caress" which makes me grin to this very day.

The problem we have is less with the words per se and more with their intention.

Alternatives could work but not if used as a substitute for real words to offend someone or such like that.

[birdynumnnums 0]

its stupid the tell oracle thing

how you can tell oracle when you are banned?

[Enola 53]

If you can post on the forums, you can send him a PM.

[Maximilus 0]

Snip***

[birdynumnnums 0]

this is over protect in the game

many little people in protect in chat more than players in game

[TheLastOne 2]

This is why i /ignore so many people that kind of crap is childish

[spellcast 983]

just as an aside, players can edit the filter as its client side.

if you edit words.dat in a text editor (the file is in your named config folders) you can set up something very much like UO Curse for yourself.

as to differneces in moderation style, that happens. people are only human and while we have a guide to what is and is not acceptable, differnet people are more strict than others. Keep in mind that all of us are volunteers, and sometimes we dont have our attention focused 100% on any given conversation, especially those of us who are also GM's.  I often miss things in the chat that i would warn or mute for because i'm taking care of a /dev call.

Even the non GM's arent allways watching chat closely, it can be hard to warn someone who deserves it while trying to flee from the overgrown troll that jumped down a cliff after you. sometimes character survival trumps muting idiot#19856B

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

I apologise for the OP, I'd been having a bad few days IRL and it just got to me how disrespectful some people are towards the people meant to be looking out for us. This whole thread was extremely unnecessary of me.

My bad.

[Littlebear 3]

I heard a rumour that if you pay for something its actually yours.

[Farmerbob 369]

There really needs to be player made & player moderated channels.

The best example of what a player moderated channel might be in any game I've ever played was the EVE Online player created channel for EVE University.  Self moderated.  Mostly safe for work.  Many members.  Enough people cared about the quality of chat that usually out of control folks could be talked down before forceful moderation was needed.

No clue if EVE-U even still exists, but I still miss that channel at times when I'm watching kingdom chats.

[Othob Rithol 700]

There really needs to be player made & player moderated channels.

The in-game IRC is a lazy workaround.... Being able to have an "alliance chat" means having to explain to villagers young and old alike how to edit their autoruns to launch it, join the IRC, et cetera. Half of them can't or won't.

QFT

Totally against allowing abbreviations from passing through as "not cursing" however. No different at all from using the real words except it's lazier. If you can't show the maturity, decency and tact to watch what you are saying in public than you have no excuse and don't belong in civil society. In private among friends say what ever you want.