Posted March 26 Fatigue, while it serves some purpose, is not a good system for this game, I know that a large majority of people may not ever reach their fatigue limits, but once you do, it becomes annoying to get out of. I love long timers in Wurm, it means I can grind a skill while otherwise multitasking and doing IRL things, I queue up x actions, go away for 2 minutes, come back and do it all over again. Filler text ahead, I made it a spoiler incase you don't care about how i got to this point lol Spoiler I get it, that's probably not the experience that people expect to have in a game, however its my preferred way to do long skill grinds while not being glued to my desk all day so I can move around and get on with little bits around the house. I recently decided to grind mining because i wanted to hit 99, I have a low QL CoC tool nicely optimised for my grind, I go to hit Marble Veins for hours over the weekend because I didn't have much else going on, however come Sunday, I have reached my fatigue limit, so I was forced to stop playing. I come back Monday, I have a few hours of Fatigue left, so I can only grind for what, 3 hours +1 that I might get from the "You Feel Rested" message. Its restricting, I don't understand the point to being limited in a game that I want to play, I get it was probably because of the dreaded M word, but all it means is that I now have to not play for a few days to be able to put in a long grind again (and it doesn't really work against those kinds of people anyway) Priests can grind channelling, I can fight mobs, I can climb a wall indefinitely, I can walk around and groom animals, and none of this affects me, but If I want to stare at a wall for a day and go at it, I am penalised? A community member kindly pointed this out from a VI thread in 2020 Quote Feeling Fatigued There's been an ongoing discussion around fatigue, and we know that it is a cause of annoyance for players who hit that wall. We want you to know that we are listening, and while we haven't decided on a full decision, we are discussing possible changes. Maybe this should be brought back to the table, because otherwise I'll just have to not play the game for a week so I don't get fatigued out by making crates 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 There's a lot of messages that have been said in the past and most of them have continued to exist in the space of "well it doesn't affect me so I don't care" You can very easily dismiss a lot of the concerns you can raise about removal of fatigue because the system is that worthless. It's unreal how such a crap system has stayed around, though from what I've learned it's because it's so awfully intertwined to stuff that removing it would be something of a challenge. But we're getting an action rework in full so maybe it could be something in scope? "But it helps to ban macroing players!" Ultimately no, from a GM I know, fatigue at best and most frequently is just checked and seen as some check that doesn't hold a lot of stock anymore. I don't recall ever hearing of a ban directly linked to fatigue concerns. "But it helps prevent players using macros making money!" Priest casting is one of the last markets that would really heavily benefit from macro usage and casting doesn't use fatigue. If you're making bulk goods, with the 100% creation chance you literally just spin up a new alt now to get around fatigue, devs have been undermining the system for ages. "I've never hit it so it's not an issue" Yes and you never got X illness so it's not an issue for anyone right? We have a wonderful mechanic for promoting you logging off, it's called sleep bonus. We even have restlessness now which only lowers when you're offline or on another cluster, so another reason to promote players taking this break. We don't need a game to nanny us, especially not a monthly sub game. Let us play the god damn game. 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 (edited) I dont (m word) but can spend 12hr mining veins and hate seeing fatigue get low or close to 0 forcing me to stop the grind. Id be down with (M word) checks to make sure im really there doing the work and not some (M word) system thingamajigs doing the work. Edited March 26 by starnova typo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 11 minutes ago, starnova said: I dont (m word) but can spend 12hr mining veins and hate seeing fatigue get low or close to 0 forcing me to stop the grind. Id be down with (M word) checks to make sure im really there doing the work and not some (M word) system thingamajigs doing the work. One thing I've not really understood when I learned that fatigue left is checked when a GM macro check is done... Why does it have to limit gameplay? If a manual macro check is done by a GM anyway, and who knows how much more checks to clear, why not just keep fatigue as an invisible system for GMs to see, but doesn't just put a halt on your gameplay once you hit that 12 hour mark? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 yes love that idea "why not just keep fatigue as an invisible system for GMs to see" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 Please educate my ignorance, how Fatigue prevents me from setting a M#### for 11 hours 59 min. I don’t see the system as a foolproof anti##### feature, and I see it more like the Energy system in so many Money sink Mobile games. Or we will soon get Fatigue hours in the Silver Shop, who knows. Note: I never experienced the issue myself of running out of fatigue, but I understand other people’s situation. as a Classic MMO, with a sub model, the system is ridiculous, If I want to mine 16 hours a day, I should be able to do so. I’m paying whatever amount it is every 30 days, that is 720 hours. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 I'd like consuming 1 sleep powder to add 1 hour to fatigue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 How did you get to fatigue limit? How often do you get there, no, not once you got there - you chose to keep drowning in it.. if you get to the bottom.. you leave it recover to full or 10 hours to get good buffer again, so.. how often do you get from 10-12 hours to 0? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 1 hour ago, Simyaci said: I'd like consuming 1 sleep powder to add 1 hour to fatigue. A bit of a scary suggestion. This would monetize fatigue and paywall grinding. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 9 minutes ago, Finnn said: How did you get to fatigue limit? Already explained it in my original post Quote you chose to keep drowning in it.. Yeah, I chose to keep playing a game that I enjoy playing? Quote how often do you get from 10-12 hours to 0? Considering this is my first serious grind, I have already reached it about 3-4 times and probably will quite a bit more. Not sure if the response is worded poorly but I feel like you read one line and decided to comment, its not about how often i reach fatigue or how I keep "drowning in it", its that a mechanic is in the game that stops you from playing if you play it for long periods of time, considering most of this game involves heavy time investment into skills, its a bit backwards Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 The problem is account sharing. Aren't we had and still having accounts in game that are used and grinded by few different players in same time? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 2 minutes ago, Tor said: The problem is account sharing. Aren't we had and still having accounts in game that are used and grinded by few different players in same time? Not sure how that's the fatigue issue, realistically fatigue would just be a time gate for that but the end result ultimately the same. It was a thing in the past but I'm not aware of a group grinding a single account anymore. With the changes to allow only 2 others access to an account I think the desire and potential for it to happen has waned drastically. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 3 minutes ago, Madnath said: Not sure how that's the fatigue issue, realistically fatigue would just be a time gate for that but the end result ultimately the same. It was a thing in the past but I'm not aware of a group grinding a single account anymore. With the changes to allow only 2 others access to an account I think the desire and potential for it to happen has waned drastically. Well, i don't really wanna point fingers if anyone still doing it or not, but having this opportunity of unlimited grinding 24/7 on one account by 3 players without any kind of cap may or may not be an issue. If there's no such opportunities, no cap fatique might be a good thing for any new player that wanna be competitive, especially in pvp and willing to grind like there's no tomorow and perhaps catch up in few years Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 11 minutes ago, Tor said: Well, i don't really wanna point fingers if anyone still doing it or not, but having this opportunity of unlimited grinding 24/7 on one account by 3 players without any kind of cap may or may not be an issue. If there's no such opportunities, no cap fatique might be a good thing for any new player that wanna be competitive, especially in pvp and willing to grind like there's no tomorow and perhaps catch up in few years I feel like if it's going to be an issue it'd (hopefully) be somewhat shortlived. Eventually a group wanting to do that would run out of SB one way or another, promoting them to finally take that step back if they don't want to just keep slamming themselves into menial tasks when they can have a normal life instead. Maybe a bit of a pipe dream, there's lots of SP, but I do think eventually it's just not going to be as viable, if ever. It's a good concern to raise though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 (edited) I am against removing fatigue system and also against increasing the regen speed but I think increasing the maximum fatigue could be a good idea bcause most players normally only come across running out of fatigue after they've been just hyperfocused on something for a few days. Increasing maximum fatigue wouldn't bring any issues with it as long as regen speed is kept the same. Edited March 26 by Simyaci Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 11 minutes ago, Simyaci said: I am against removing fatigue system and also against increasing the regen speed Why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 5 minutes ago, Madnath said: Why? I don't want account sharing 24/7 char to compete with anybody in PvE or PvP. I wouldn't be that opposed to slightly faster fatigue regen while offline (than it is now) though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 1 hour ago, Blueheart said: Already explained it in my original post Yeah, I chose to keep playing a game that I enjoy playing? Considering this is my first serious grind, I have already reached it about 3-4 times and probably will quite a bit more. Not sure if the response is worded poorly but I feel like you read one line and decided to comment, its not about how often i reach fatigue or how I keep "drowning in it", its that a mechanic is in the game that stops you from playing if you play it for long periods of time, considering most of this game involves heavy time investment into skills, its a bit backwards not really.. if it doesn't happen often, it doesn't really need attention and works as intended, if you land on it often, it's curious what you do, because this means hours and hours and hours and hours and .... without any kind of breaks, it's interesting, since there's nothing but action timers going on during this time, no movement, no interaction of any kind, only timers, I had my reason to ask specifically what I wrote; I grinded to 100 pickaxe and mining last halloween and a bit before it.. to get there, I do not recall reaching fatigue, play-style and long hours yet .. depends how many we can invest at a time and how often, etc.. Normally if I get close to low fatigue I take a day or 2 off, lets me chill from the piano lessons for hours(smashing keys nonstop for few hours), some grinds are pretty heavy with the interaction, depends what and how you grind it. Everything have some limitation, and with it, the higher skill becomes more valuable, if you had no fatigue and you could hw macro mine nonstop, it was only going to take a few days to get from 1 to 90+ At high skill we can do a lot of terrain changes at large scale in short time, it's all tied to interaction time pool(fatigue), without it, anyone with high skill could nonstop keep generating any amount of services/bulk/work/spam actions of all kinds, further with the account sharing... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 37 minutes ago, Finnn said: curious what you do, because this means hours and hours and hours and hours and .... without any kind of breaks, it's interesting, since there's nothing but action timers going on during this time, no movement, no interaction of any kind, only timers, I had my reason to ask specifically what I wrote; It's almost like the game doesn't full reset after uptime. Say you mine on the side while doing other stuff as it's just spamming actions. You get down to 0 then log in the next day. You only get 4 hours. So then you start the process of grind then wait and grind then wait. Until you are forced to just not play for 24h to refresh your fatigue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 1 hour ago, Atndy said: It's almost like the game doesn't full reset after uptime. Say you mine on the side while doing other stuff as it's just spamming actions. You get down to 0 then log in the next day. You only get 4 hours. So then you start the process of grind then wait and grind then wait. Until you are forced to just not play for 24h to refresh your fatigue. Longer than this, full fatigue refresh is 36 hours, and thats assuming i do nothing for what is effectively 2 days Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 (edited) 2 hours ago, Finnn said: not really.. if it doesn't happen often, it doesn't really need attention and works as intended, if you land on it often, it's curious what you do, because this means hours and hours and hours and hours and .... without any kind of breaks, it's interesting, since there's nothing but action timers going on during this time, no movement, no interaction of any kind, only timers, I had my reason to ask specifically what I wrote; I grinded to 100 pickaxe and mining last halloween and a bit before it.. to get there, I do not recall reaching fatigue, play-style and long hours yet .. depends how many we can invest at a time and how often, etc.. Normally if I get close to low fatigue I take a day or 2 off, lets me chill from the piano lessons for hours(smashing keys nonstop for few hours), some grinds are pretty heavy with the interaction, depends what and how you grind it. Everything have some limitation, and with it, the higher skill becomes more valuable, if you had no fatigue and you could hw macro mine nonstop, it was only going to take a few days to get from 1 to 90+ At high skill we can do a lot of terrain changes at large scale in short time, it's all tied to interaction time pool(fatigue), without it, anyone with high skill could nonstop keep generating any amount of services/bulk/work/spam actions of all kinds, further with the account sharing... It's curious what I do? I'll let you know, I bind my mouse key to mine, do 9 actions, about what 2 mins ish, then while those long timers are running, i walk about my room and do other stuff. Or I play other games, or I chat to other people Grinding a skill like mining is not something that needs my attention, I queue my actions and then do other stuff, its very easy to build up time, especially when working from home, or having a week off, or whatever Its already been said, and I can't say it better Quote We don't need a game to nanny us, especially not a monthly sub game. Let us play the god damn game. I pay to play this game, not to have an automated system tell me when I should stop playing Edited March 26 by Blueheart 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 Drinking alcohol and smoking is ''pay to be unhealthy'' so I think Wurm Online could also offer this choice by making sleep powder give 1h fatigue when consumed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 28 minutes ago, Blueheart said: It's curious what I do? I'll let you know, I bind my mouse key to mine, do 9 actions, about what 2 mins ish, then while those long timers are running, i walk about my room and do other stuff. Or I play other games, or I chat to other people Grinding a skill like mining is not something that needs my attention, I queue my actions and then do other stuff, its very easy to build up time, especially when working from home, or having a week off, or whatever Its already been said, and I can't say it better I pay to play this game, not to have an automated system tell me when I should stop playing The game is already very fast to grind skills, drop fatigue, what's next, asking for autobot system paid or free, automatically eat sleep powders, eat, drink, grind, just buff in 2months of botting to 90 stats, get into pvp.. push everyout out of the server, get bored all are at same level and quit? Same on pve.. 90 skill or higher matter because they take time and are rare, what happens if one can grind in fraction of the time what other gained in week/s, with pauses, etc.. burnouts, on and off playing, switching things around to prevent burnouts also.. Normally people take a break and catch up on irl or other game things, work or w/e you want irl.. alternatively here some also dive into hunting since it takes no fatigue, could do treasure maps, etc.. You're not prevented from playing, you're prevented from nonstop pressing keys and being in endless cycle of pressed keys on rotation which does not seem to have breaks and accumulates into many continuous hours of grinding over and over, a normal human being eventually needs a break. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 26 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Finnn said: The game is already very fast to grind skills, drop fatigue, what's next, asking for autobot system paid or free, automatically eat sleep powders, eat, drink, grind, just buff in 2months of botting to 90 stats, get into pvp.. push everyout out of the server, get bored all are at same level and quit Bit extreme mate, i just wanna click F and not be prevented from doing so by a flawed system Edited March 26 by Blueheart Friendly reword :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
