New Player Retention

[Fearil 200]

HI! I just wanted to check in with you and see what you thought about new player retention? Mmmhmmm, I think you're right, it's kinda $#!7 and we should definitely do something about it....

 

Ideally, now we all together come up with some amazing ideas that the Devs ( @Darklords@Samool ? ), GMs ( @Pomona ) , and GCG ( @Krister ) vocally get on board with and can so easily and quickly implement that we fill all the servers again and we all live happily ever after...

 

BUT...

 

now we need to come up with those ideas.

 

I have a couple, and whether or not you like them is your thing, but I'm just going to throw them out there and see what sticks. I also have a huge list of ideas, some good, some less-so. Check those out if you need some heavily disjointed reading that never really lived up to my expectations of a somewhat satirical, comedic, masterpiece. I also don't really know anything about what a good tutorial system for the game would be, so while that's obvious, I won't mention it further beyond simple reference.

 

ONE: Starter Gear

The starting gear for players is pretty lacklustre, imo. I'd like to see tools that go up to an upper limit of QL that effectively have no market value. This, mostly, to increase the speed and success at which new players can accomplish the most basic of tasks. While I wouldn't want to take away ALL of the satisfaction for doing you first actions in game, I think that is better than someone getting frustrated because staring at the timers (not exactly riveting gameplay) gets old really fast when they're really slow. Likewise, dying to everything is real bad. I mean, not as bad as when I first started the game with no armour at all, but it's still pretty bad...

 

So, I suggest:

• Upping the starter Leather armour to 50ql and applying Web Armour at 25 power to all pieces (or perhaps just legs/chest).
• Make the starter tools 50ql (or at least 30ql) with WoA at 25 power.
  • The addition of enchants to showcase the value and existence of enchants to new players.
• Toolbelt raised to 30ql.
• Longsword is probably ok at 50ql, but bump the Medium Wooden Shield to 50ql as well.
• Compass raised to 50ql
• 2 Ropes, instead of one.
• Pre-fill the bowl with water (if it isn't already, didn't check that)
• Give the new folks a big, heart-shaped, no-drop cookie, or something like that. Maybe a Wurm Burger with Special sauce (that doesn't decay on them)

 

Make all of these no-drop, no-trade, with an option to discard > confirm discard (two level prompt to stave off accidents) for when they upgrade. Maybe some of the gear can stay on the corpse to allow new players the absolute thrill of dying multiple times trying to loot your own body, but perhaps not... Also, could be locked behind, or introduced in stages, in the tutorial. In this day and age, we should consider maybe having one of our lovely content creators voice the tutorial text. This would also make learning the game more accessible, imo.

 

TWO: STARTING SKILL, CHARACTERISTICS & (tangentially) SKILLGAIN

Starting skills at 0 also contributes to the extra slow start to the game. I really don't feel that there would be much harm in starting all skills at 10 to help reduce the repeated fails and timer agony.

 

The current starting characteristics don't seem to be a problem in terms of how they give goals to reach in order to access other features of the game (piloting ships, riding animals, etc), but I believe this should come with a flat +10 characteristic increase. My sole reason for this idea is to give new players a slight bump up compared to legacy players that dominate in the PvP world. Sure +10 wouldn't fix that, but would allow them to become competitive slightly faster. Regardless of how bad that idea might be, let me just point out that all new players are severely handicapped compared to legacy players, and I don't feel that new clusters of servers are an answer to that problem. There is a power creep issue that isn't greatly discussed, imo, where new players are so far behind legacy players that not only have the toons, materials, and knowledge that catching up becomes that much more monumental, and not every new players can be a Cipaku or [Insert Relatively New-to-the-game Master Skillgrinders Here].

 

Anyhow, accessing the extra +10 skill on start could be locked behind completing the tutorial, whatever it looks like. The one thing I might recommend beyond that is to allow the riding of horses that have been equipped with a saddle straight from go. This would encourage either gaining taming skill or founding a deed (for branding and applying equipment to the horse); One of these is an active goal, one of these sells silver, no real down side other than the often heckled and scary-as-heck thing we call 'Change'.

 

Finally, I strongly believe that a basic amount of skill should be gained for every relevant action. This could be a mere ten-thousandth (0.0001 if I understand numbers [not guaranteed]) of a point of skill. However, I do think that should should scale (.05 gain from 0-15 skill, etc, etc, 0.0001 at 90 skill). This is, in part, to get rid of what I've long called the 'useless work' model of skillgain where your actions, however many thousands, can potentially not count towards anything skillgain-wise. PLEASE NOTE that I have not considered how CoC, affinities, and caffeine would affect this, so the example minimum skillgain numbers I have given I would consider at an high net gain per action. Also consider that, as written, this would be a 100k action swing from 90 to 100 skill, which doesn't sound unreasonable to me, but tweaks can always be made: this is just an idea I think would help. I'm trying to give specifics to spark conversation and debate, rather than being stuck to any certain number..

 

THREE: NON-PREM LIMITS

I definitely think the present game model requires certain limits to be set in order to encourage purchases of Premium time. No question there, however, I think the limits could be slightly increased. Being able to retain hard-fought characteristic levels up to, perhaps, 50 would certainly be nice in terms of allowing non-prem play to be more viable. Likewise, skills should, imo, cap at 50 for non-prem characters. No change to non-prem priesting (restricted), but all first-level meditation abilities should be either allowable, or not allowed. Currently Path of Power has a definite advantage there. I haven't given thought to how that balances against non PoP characters in terms of their path benefits, so it could be balanced like that for a reason, but my thought is that the PoP power is very strong to have for non-prem characters. Why not allow Path of Love non-prem characters to access Refresh, and so on?

 

FOUR: AGGRO RANGES & STARTER TOWNS

This is in part to increase survivability early on, and overall tweak the mob aggression mechanics. It's always kind of bothered me that wolves, bears, and other normal animal creatures are so suicidally aggressive. This includes the large rats and such. I think a way to increase new player survival rates might be to limit the aggro range on these 'hostile' creatures (non-monster, non-humanoid), or simply have them passive until you stay inside a 1-4 tile aggro range for over a few seconds; Effectively poking the bear in a literal sense.
In addition to that, I would like to see a range around starter towns be devoid of all of the quite difficult (for new players) aggressive mobs. Think trolls, hell hounds, etc. Not a huge range, but I just think of the number of times that the area around Tapdance is just swarming with trolls. That could easily result in a very early quit scenario. Yes, there are Templars on starter towns, but those only work in the town, obviously. Anyhow, I think it would be a small tweak that would help new players.
Increasing the function of starter towns would be nice too, but I don't currently have specific suggestions there. Perhaps a certain set of new player privileges and a setup in town that helps new players experience the game from within the relative safety of the walls, for a time. A protected donation box to help new players acquire gear. Other things and stuff.

 

FINALLY: FIRST PREM BENEFITS

I do understand that there are some store specials for new players. I do think that new subscribers to either of those plans, 10s+ or 1 month Premium+, should all be given a Deed Founding Token that would allow the instant founding of their own settlement. Perhaps also include that token as a separate purchase for new players only.

 

Included in the Founding Token would be 1 month of upkeep for a min-sized deed with 1 guard, but not be allowed to disband until after that 1 month (to prevent potential abuse, fairly obvious, but maybe allow them to change the size/guard number at any time). Maybe throw a random skin in for shiggles. I just feel that expediting the process of getting new players into their own deeds should be a high priority with a low bar to entry. Yes, we want to associate that deeds will require a commitment, thus be accessed through purchase in the store, but otherwise, make it super easy. No, a deed stake isn't a big hassle, but I don't see why that exists in the first place. Yes, better than buying a settlement contract like it used to be, but I do feel like now it just doesn't need to be item based. Maybe just add it entirely to the silver shop, aside from this token for new subscribers?

 

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:

Make tents repairable and improvable. It's just SILLY that they aren't.

Mail Changes - letters are free, or 5i. Seriously simple offline messaging should be better integrated right into the game in a free way, not a bulletin board on deed, not 1c. Make it so mail is quick and easy. Not everyone likes using these forums, or is into the habit of it (Pot, Kettle). Also, make single item mail also very cheap (5i), and bulk items cheaper. Remove mailing and trading restrictions on almost everything (perhaps not vehicles or potentially game-breaking things)

Valrei (or Haven, or ?NAME?) Market: Server-portal to a central marketplace for all servers on the cluster (restricted from PvP, N/S cluster travel of course). Sure, there are a few good and functional player-run markets in wurm, but there are also a few crap ones too. Lets just have a central meeting space, as has been mentioned, for commerce and trade, and community (sparring grounds, racing, etc,.. aka fun community things:last man standing wave-based combat grounds, king of the hill area, etc, programmed on a timer like rifts). I'd love to see vehicles included in that market, but that might be a bridge too far. Which reminds me: bridges to server borders and plot course on foot/cart/wagon. Cross-server wagoners... I could go on.

And will: Integrating a themed memorial garden into every server. Ok, not new player related, but... We have a lot of people who have loved this game, and other players, and passed on. I don't suggest a graveyard, but a memorial site on every server (or the aforementioned market server) that is permanent and tasteful in memorializing past players and staff who are no longer with us. Add a few nice assets to the game to do these proud, maybe. Think of, if you have them, a memorial wall or monument (or combination within). I think I'm looking for the word Cenotaph, sort of. Where I'm from (Canada) most every town and village has a war cenotaph (this is the closest one to me, afaik). I'm not suggesting a military theme and definitely not something styled after one shady old white guy, but something Wurmian of course.

 

Alright, that's enough. If I think of anything else relevant to New Player Retention I'll add it in reply.

 

I'm curious to hear the thoughts of me fellow players, and also the Dev team, because, frankly, too seldom do I see any Devs commenting on suggestion threads and the rest of us are left feeling like we're spitting into the wind.

 

Cheers and Happy Wurming!

 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Fearil
Added section FOUR.

[Votip 1,619]

9 minutes ago, Fearil said:

Devs ( @Darklords

not anymore dude

[Fearil 200]

Meh, they need to update the staff page. I'll go check the announcement thread.

[Fearil 200]

Alright well I tagged @Samoolas Product Manager.

[Zera 175]

50 Skill cap is awfully high for a non-premium player.
While I feel that 20 is too low, 50 is too high. Perhaps somewhere around the 30 or 35 range would be more ideal. This would open up new features and functions in their skills that they otherwise don't get at 20 or less, but also doesn't give them near everything either. 50 is quite a high skill level that unlocks quite a few higher end functions and features that I feel a non-premium player should be encouraged to access premium status to reach those goals. 30/35 gives a proper taste of the higher skills without giving too much, where 20 doesn't give enough.

 

That said, I don't think that giving players the ability to ride a horse right out of the gate is a good idea either. There are donkeys and cows for the low skill players to ride, besides with a higher skill cap of 30/35 they'll be able to reach the skills needed to ride a horse without ever needing to get Premium playtime.

 

I also don't think that giving new players a +10 in their skills on creation is a good idea either. Part of the learning process of wurm is failing, figuring out how stuff works and what makes things work better. This 1ql plank has a lower chance to apply to my chest than this 5 or 10ql plank. Obviously then, higher QL planks (or whatever) are better to use than lower ones.
The tutorial also already encourages players to perform tasks which in turn increase those skills as well as explore the different things available in wurm. The journal adds to this by offering even more tasks to do which include rewards alongside the "do the task, get the gain".

 

I entirely believe that Wurm has new player retention problems, but I do not believe it has anything to do with the starting skills or the inability to ride a horse due to a lack of skill.
I do believe it has something to do with the limited amount of skill cap you can get. You hit 20 skill in most things very quickly and that can very easily be seen as "well I did this thing and I'm supposed to be able to do X or Y, but I can't or I won't be able to experience it unless I pay some money first". Skill cap at 20 is a big turnoff for a lot of people, they feel far too gated and don't get to learn enough about certain aspects or unlock anything fun or cool before they decide they've had enough and Wurm isn't for them. It's a shame really.
If they were able to drive a cart instead of drag one around everywhere, that alone I believe would make a MAJOR difference. But alas it's locked just beyond that 20 skill cap. New players would never know how much of a help having a Large Cart would be to their gameplay unless they paid money on a game they're still figuring out if it's for them.

[Fearil 200]

That does remind me, I had one more thing that my ADHD brain forgot mid-post.

 

Riding Animals: Again, not specific to new player retention, but I think all animals should receive a bit of a buff to speed. I mean, horses and hell horses are good. Personally I think Unicorns should be on par with hell horses (with 1 rider), or maybe a slight bit slower. Mind you I haven't ridden a unicorn lately so I'm not exactly sure where they sit on the scale these days. Otherwise, the other speeds for non-standard mounts (exclude Horses, Cows, Bulls, Unicorns, HH) should be viable at near-horse standard, and include mounting saddles. Again, this area of the game is vague to me, because I don't see much point right now in riding a brown bear. Anyways, more viable riding mounts would be great, and including smaller animals that can become large champions (think wolf, sheep, etc) should be ridable.

[Zera 175]

Just now, Fearil said:

That does remind me, I had one more thing that my ADHD brain forgot mid-post.

 

Riding Animals: Again, not specific to new player retention, but I think all animals should receive a bit of a buff to speed. I mean, horses and hell horses are good. Personally I think Unicorns should be on par with hell horses (with 1 rider), or maybe a slight bit slower. Mind you I haven't ridden a unicorn lately so I'm not exactly sure where they sit on the scale these days. Otherwise, the other speeds for non-standard mounts (exclude Horses, Cows, Bulls, Unicorns, HH) should be viable at near-horse standard, and include mounting saddles. Again, this area of the game is vague to me, because I don't see much point right now in riding a brown bear. Anyways, more viable riding mounts would be great, and including smaller animals that can become large champions (think wolf, sheep, etc) should be ridable.

This was one you'd already put in your giant list of suggestions in another thread.

[Fearil 200]

2 minutes ago, Fearil said:

my ADHD brain forgot

 

 

 

Words are hard. hehe

[Fearil 200]

  

5 minutes ago, Zera said:

50 Skill cap is awfully high for a non-premium player.
While I feel that 20 is too low, 50 is too high. Perhaps somewhere around the 30 or 35 range would be more ideal. This would open up new features and functions in their skills that they otherwise don't get at 20 or less, but also doesn't give them near everything either. 50 is quite a high skill level that unlocks quite a few higher end functions and features that I feel a non-premium player should be encouraged to access premium status to reach those goals. 30/35 gives a proper taste of the higher skills without giving too much, where 20 doesn't give enough.

 

Yep, totally fair. I provided numbers that I thought balanced, but by no means am I tied to them. Overall the bottom line is that, like you, I think 20 a bit low. My idea of how it balances though is what does 50 give you that affects the player economy in any real way. I can't really think of anything at 50ql that is much of a commodity.

 

8 minutes ago, Zera said:

That said, I don't think that giving players the ability to ride a horse right out of the gate is a good idea either. There are donkeys and cows for the low skill players to ride, besides with a higher skill cap of 30/35 they'll be able to reach the skills needed to ride a horse without ever needing to get Premium playtime.

 

Again, fair, but I do think that adding the saddle would be a fair way of balancing the earlier access to a decent mount. I respect your feedback on it though.

 

9 minutes ago, Zera said:

I also don't think that giving new players a +10 in their skills on creation is a good idea either. Part of the learning process of wurm is failing, figuring out how stuff works and what makes things work better. This 1ql plank has a lower chance to apply to my chest than this 5 or 10ql plank. Obviously then, higher QL planks (or whatever) are better to use than lower ones.
The tutorial also already encourages players to perform tasks which in turn increase those skills as well as explore the different things available in wurm. The journal adds to this by offering even more tasks to do which include rewards alongside the "do the task, get the gain".

 

I entirely believe that Wurm has new player retention problems, but I do not believe it has anything to do with the starting skills or the inability to ride a horse due to a lack of skill.
I do believe it has something to do with the limited amount of skill cap you can get. You hit 20 skill in most things very quickly and that can very easily be seen as "well I did this thing and I'm supposed to be able to do X or Y, but I can't or I won't be able to experience it unless I pay some money first". Skill cap at 20 is a big turnoff for a lot of people, they feel far too gated and don't get to learn enough about certain aspects or unlock anything fun or cool before they decide they've had enough and Wurm isn't for them. It's a shame really.
If they were able to drive a cart instead of drag one around everywhere, that alone I believe would make a MAJOR difference. But alas it's locked just beyond that 20 skill cap. New players would never know how much of a help having a Large Cart would be to their gameplay unless they paid money on a game they're still figuring out if it's for them.

 

Yeah I do feel that the initial super slow timers involved with those 0 skills are part of the new players experience that offer nothing in terms of good points for retention. I definitely couldn't argue against the sense of achievement and the learning journey, but ultimately my opinion is that the +10 skill thing wouldn't do much harm to that and would make things a touch more bearable.

I totally agree that being able to drive a large cart, or being able to say hitch a cow/bull/bear to a small cart would be REALLY great for new players. We did get a recent increase to the dragability (new words today, fun) of carts and such, but idk if that is much of an improvement for a new player with low strength and stamina. Anyhow, that's a great idea imo!

[Lethyria 161]

42 minutes ago, Fearil said:

Starting skills at 0 also contributes to the extra slow start to the game. I really don't feel that there would be much harm in starting all skills at 10 to help reduce the repeated fails and timer agony.

I agree some things are super painful at low skills, but isn't the better solution to reduce the difficulty of certain actions or providing alternatives. Skills starting at 10 not 0 feels kinda weird to me.

 

48 minutes ago, Fearil said:

My sole reason for this idea is to give new players a slight bump up compared to legacy players that dominate in the PvP world. Sure +10 wouldn't fix that,

As for this one, I think you have identified issues but missed on the solution. A lot of people I've seen start out in wurm are super proud when they can first unload and load a crate, ride a horse or command a wagon. I don't think its good to take these away in order to compensate for the inevitable gap in pvp. If you want to address newer people then surely the balance here would be to alter the pvp scaling of stats.

 

53 minutes ago, Fearil said:

. The one thing I might recommend beyond that is to allow the riding of horses that have been equipped with a saddle straight from go

I feel here the first issue is to address the way of a new player finding a donkey or horse in the wild, and given donkeys can be ridden from the start I'm not sure this is the biggest issue. This is potentially also an area to add some depth to tracking as a skill.

 

 

44 minutes ago, Fearil said:

Finally, I strongly believe that a basic amount of skill should be gained for every relevant action.

I'm not super opposed to WU style success based skillgain as opposed to 0-40 power but a minimum limit would make reaching 100 in a skill orders of magnitude easier, I'm not a fan but that is the effect. Also I assume this minimum would have to vary with the difficulty multiplier otherwise characteristics and harder skills would become linear in gain at some point.

[Zera 175]

44 minutes ago, Fearil said:

but ultimately my opinion is that the +10 skill thing wouldn't do much harm to that and would make things a touch more bearable.

Rather than making a +10 skill then in that regard perhaps the "newbie buff" could include a higher success chance rate instead.
Less about the skill value and more about the journey going from 1 to 10. While going from 1 to 20 goes too quickly, even if you increase that skill limit you're also yet still narrowing down the gap further by just giving away "free skill" in this regard.

44 minutes ago, Fearil said:

Again, fair, but I do think that adding the saddle would be a fair way of balancing the earlier access to a decent mount.

A saddle has nothing to do with a decent mount or not though. Putting a saddle in a new player inventory has no effect on much of anything, especially if they are unable to find something to put it on the first place (which is the case for a lot of the NFI servers right now), lack a deed to brand it to or the skill to tame it (which if I'm not mistaken if it goes un-tamed then the saddle is lost which is a turn-off in it's own right as that is a timer that continues to tick even when you are offline).

24 minutes ago, Lethyria said:

1 hour ago, Fearil said:

Starting skills at 0 also contributes to the extra slow start to the game. I really don't feel that there would be much harm in starting all skills at 10 to help reduce the repeated fails and timer agony.

I agree some things are super painful at low skills, but isn't the better solution to reduce the difficulty of certain actions or providing alternatives. Skills starting at 10 not 0 feels kinda weird to me.

I also feel strongly this way, starting at 10 feels very off. If it's because "things are hard" then as I said the "newbie buff" should provide some buff that either increases all success chance to actions or increase skill gain for the duration of that buff. (Kind of like free sleep bonus for the duration).

But it also poses the problem of giving a wrong impression too. Without the challenge of having low skill and lower success chance it can easily come across as if attempting to accomplish a task that you are just barely skill enough to do won't be so bad. Like trying to build a smelter at only just hitting 50 Masonry skill.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Zera

[Fearil 200]

10 minutes ago, Lethyria said:

I agree some things are super painful at low skills, but isn't the better solution to reduce the difficulty of certain actions or providing alternatives. Skills starting at 10 not 0 feels kinda weird to me.

 

Heard. Reducing the difficulty won't solve the inherent issue of extremely boring timer-staring in the early game though, I don't think. Characteristics don't start at 0 either, so, for me at least, starting at 10 doesn't feel weird. I get you though.

 

11 minutes ago, Lethyria said:

As for this one, I think you have identified issues but missed on the solution. A lot of people I've seen start out in wurm are super proud when they can first unload and load a crate, ride a horse or command a wagon. I don't think its good to take these away in order to compensate for the inevitable gap in pvp. If you want to address newer people then surely the balance here would be to alter the pvp scaling of stats.

 

Yeah, I think we could definitely do a whole other thread on how to improve and balance the PvP experience across the board. It's a hard thing. I think we need to value the time people have input into becoming the best PvPers possible as it stands, but find a good inroad for newer players. It'd beyond me without suggesting a total revamp of how PvP is approached (skillcaps, scaling, w/e), and that's definitely not my bailiwick. I'd perhaps suggest then that the requirements for those accomplishments also get that +10, so the milestones stand, but the characteristic gap between new and old is narrowed a bit. That's more of what I was aiming for, not removing any sense of achievement. I will admit, when I first started drafting my post I wasn't going to suggest any change to Characteristics, so it's not high on my personal list of changes I would like to see.

 

14 minutes ago, Lethyria said:

I feel here the first issue is to address the way of a new player finding a donkey or horse in the wild, and given donkeys can be ridden from the start I'm not sure this is the biggest issue. This is potentially also an area to add some depth to tracking as a skill.

 

IMO donkeys aren't exactly usable in any real sense for travel. You're better off walking 99% of the time, though dragging one around behind you can be useful for the height advantage in combat. Otherwise, I don't see donkeys as a viable mount in any meaningful sense. That being said, I haven't experienced the game as a new player with donkeys in the game, so I'm totally spitballing.

 

16 minutes ago, Lethyria said:

I'm not super opposed to WU style success based skillgain as opposed to 0-40 power but a minimum limit would make reaching 100 in a skill orders of magnitude easier, I'm not a fan but that is the effect. Also I assume this minimum would have to vary with the difficulty multiplier otherwise characteristics and harder skills would become linear in gain at some point.

 

Yeah, I get you but personally I don't see how the current focus of years on a skill (at least, for non-obsessive play) or two constitutes anything other than abuse of the people that play the game. Ultimately, just looking for a happy middle ground on having our time valued in a way. I mean, can we really consider something like 200k actions to get 100 too easy? Right now it's way higher, I think, someone knows the math, I'm sure.

As for WU, I have no idea what you mean with that since I've never been a WU player, so I can't speak to that. Otherwise I wouldn't change normal skillgain as it stands at present, except to guarantee that if I dig, I get a skill tick - if it's outside the normal range, then I get that guaranteed minimum.

[Fearil 200]

4 minutes ago, Zera said:

A saddle has nothing to do with a decent mount or not though. Putting a saddle in a new player inventory has no effect on much of anything, especially if they are unable to find something to put it on the first place (which is the case for a lot of the NFI servers right now), lack a deed to brand it to or the skill to tame it (which if I'm not mistaken if it goes un-tamed then the saddle is lost which is a turn-off in it's own right as that is a timer that continues to tick even when you are offline).

 

I also feel strongly this way, starting at 10 feels very off. If it's because "things are hard" then as I said the "newbie buff" should provide some buff that either increases all success chance to actions or increase skill gain for the duration of that buff. (Kind of like free sleep bonus for the duration).

But it also poses the problem of giving a wrong impression too. Without the challenge of having low skill and lower success chance it can easily come across as if attempting to accomplish a task that you are just barely skill enough to do won't be so bad. Like trying to build a smelter at only just hitting 50 Masonry skill.

 

No, I agree, but also I'm not suggesting new characters be given saddles on day 1.

 

Lacking a deed isn't a big concern for me because really I think we need to think in real terms that the new player experience will, overall, want to entertain but also funnel new players into becoming long-term premium players with deeds and all that entails; also introducing and building the player economy. I don't think it takes much time or skill at all to cut some grass (maybe sickle as a starter tool would be good, actually) and tame a cow/bull/donkey/horse. It might not really require any skill at all to do so, then you can add a saddle (saddles should be able to be put on any rideable animal, imo) and go to town. Still, your saddled bull/cow/donkey is stilll a pretty crappy way to get around compared to a horse (and a bog standard horse not great either). Perhaps newer players can educate me on actually how useful a donkey/cow/bull actually is early game.

 

We can definitely talk about the difficulty in finding a riding animal on some servers, for sure, I think it's a real issue. Maybe remove hyenas and gorillas (whose utility is extremely low), make certain potentially sought-after mobs slightly more rare (idk, hell hounds and lava spiders for charcoal type of thing) and increase or guarantee a certain number of on deed and/or unpenned horses/donkeys/etc exist in the wild... Could lower the rate of bulls and cows (not a great solution, since its a noob mount also), or unicorns or [some mob] to achieve the same effect. Or just increase the mob count on server. I don't know how the current servers manage mob count so maybe possible, maybe not.

 

The 'Newbie Buff' idea I really like. Even something like a week or two of premium-equivalent with w/e noobie benefits otherwise might help. Especially since now non-prem characters aren't deleted. My only concern would be making sure it couldn't be abused in some way to make a bunch of priest batteries on the fly or something like that.


I'm genuinely enjoying the back and forth discussion. Ultimately from the thread I'd like to see ideas refined and discussed for balance. Change is uncomfortable, so I just want to say that instead of 'this is a bad idea' or feel weird I'd love to see more 'this is a bad idea, this is why, here is a better idea', otherwise we're really just treading water.

[Zera 175]

2 hours ago, Fearil said:

Perhaps newer players can educate me on actually how useful a donkey/cow/bull actually is early game.

Bulls actually require a decent Body Control to ride. It's higher than a Horse if I recall right.
 

 

2 hours ago, Fearil said:

increase or guarantee a certain number of on deed and/or unpenned horses/donkeys/etc exist in the wild... Could lower the rate of bulls and cows (not a great solution, since its a noob mount also), or unicorns or [some mob] to achieve the same effect. Or just increase the mob count on server. I don't know how the current servers manage mob count so maybe possible, maybe not.

Creature limits are based on specific mob type as a general whole I believe. Which is why it's so hard to find Wild Horses and the like because the caps have been taken over by the many breeder programs.
Increasing these limits or separating the Bred vs Wild numbers would mean that you'd find Wilds after the fact but it would also put a lot more creatures on the server and cause increasing lag as the population of kept creatures continues to grow and grow exponentially.

 

2 hours ago, Fearil said:

The 'Newbie Buff' idea I really like. Even something like a week or two of premium-equivalent with w/e noobie benefits otherwise might help.

I don't think Newbie Buff should in anyway be anything like Premium or allow for Premium actions/status'. But acting as a small booster to get a feel for things, a way to really focus and "train your skills" I think would be the best route.
Considering that Premium status is the unlocking of the higher skills mostly with a few other relatively minor restrictions that a new player won't even be looking at let alone ready to experience or do, I don't feel the Newbie Buff could ever truly function in a "Premium Free Trial".
24hrs playtime or even upping it to say 36hrs of Newbie Buff (this is a stretch I think, 36hrs) for a "leg up" in action chance window increase. Otherwise the only other solution would be to look at everything from the skill of 1 to 100 and reduce the difficulty to do things as a whole. Even if it was just a 1-2% chance increase to do a certain task at it's earliest available skill level.

[Fearil 200]

ADHD Strikes Back... or at least returns the memory of another suggestion I was going to make. Adding Part 4 to the original post...

[Fearil 200]

On 7/20/2023 at 7:25 PM, Fearil said:

Mail Changes - letters are free, or 5i. Seriously simple offline messaging should be better integrated right into the game in a free way, not a bulletin board on deed, not 1c. Make it so mail is quick and easy. Not everyone likes using these forums, or is into the habit of it (Pot, Kettle). Also, make single item mail also very cheap (5i), and bulk items cheaper. Remove mailing and trading restrictions on almost everything (perhaps not vehicles or potentially game-breaking things)

 

 

So, a thought could be, to avoid free letter mail, simply allow offline PMs for those who enable it in their profile settings, perhaps?