Remove Fatigue

[Ayes 3,715]

That there was a "fatigue" restriction upon playing was quite a surprise to me, since I have never hit it within all my years of playing the game and I knew nothing about it. A mining friend explained it to me, since they seemed to hit it fairly frequently. I have seen the "you feel rested" message pop up a number of times but didn't understand what that was about either.

 

Anyway, since this fatigue restriction prevents players from continuing to play the game as long as they desire, I think it should be removed. It seems very incongruous to me that a fee is paid for premium game time and yet it is restricted by this feature. Looks like a sneaky way to restrict paid for play time that is not openly advertised. Although perhaps not intended in that manner, that is its effect.

 

=Ayes=

[Nightcaper 0]

 

Anyway, since this fatigue restriction prevents players from continuing to play the game as long as they desire, I think it should be removed. It seems very incongruous to me that a fee is paid for premium game time and yet it is restricted by this feature.

 

 

+1

[Druidnature 1,118]

agree. a macro CHECKING system needs to be implemented instead of limiting play time . . roughly (a macro clicks in exact time frames)

Not all macros do, especially in today's world.

Today's world, you can get so close to a human player, it's not even funny. It just depends how good you make it - you can even make them to respond to most general questions. Or randomly do different activitys.

Most bots infact in today's generation have randomized patterns - and will slow down the mouse movement, or even make it go up/down at random to act like a real player, misclick, click other things (for example a random examine x item/tile) and even slow down other buttons, or of course speed up.

In reality, a player and bot aren't so different when being watched. Unless you actively try to talk to the not (and not general questions) you're likely going to have trouble finding out if it's a bit and not... And even if the person/not doesn't respond, it could just be there annoying you or aren't paying attention to chat (I've done that a lot myself, I just don't respond to random people I don't trust near me at times)

I've never personally used a bot in a Live game (only once on my own server) but I've seen a lot of them, reported them, and even learned how they function/work. It's interesting in some ways, but I've never fully understood the purpose why they are used - I know it's to "get ahead" of others, but meh.

As long as bots don't effect my economy, area, or craft in general in a MMO, I don't really care. But if they do, I want them removed immediately.

It's a bit like using exploits/hidden mechanics (god knows I find enough of those by chance) to your advantage - just in a much easier to use way (and in all ways a ban able offense in most games)

On a side note, I don't like calling it "macros". Macros are different (in most cases) while they do the same action, they don't repeat (repeating macros can) but in general a macro is a one button press to do multiple actions, which is allowed in almost all games. When I first came to wurm it confused the heck out of me, would be nice if they changed it to make it more clear on that part.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Druidnature

[Lovefall 148]

I am quite sure that 99% of players will never have a problem with fatigue - remember is not 8 hours per day of gameplay, but 8 hours of actions (grinding). Is just the 1% of hardcore players, that imho forget that WURM is just a game, who are affected by this.

Yet, while I won't hide the fact that I don't like at all that playstyle, truth is that if that's what they enjoy doing in life, there shouldn't be mechanics to prevent them doing what they feel like.

What I think though is that it is not a mechanic aiming to limit playtime or addiction, but just a backup solution for botting - in case everything else fails, and a botter is not identified, at least there is only so much damage he can do.

That's why I -1 it.

[Druidnature 1,118]

I am quite sure that 99% of players will never have a problem with fatigue - remember is not 8 hours per day of gameplay, but 8 hours of actions (grinding). Is just the 1% of hardcore players, that imho forget that WURM is just a game, who are affected by this.

Yet, while I won't hide the fact that I don't like at all that playstyle, truth is that if that's what they enjoy doing in life, there shouldn't be mechanics to prevent them doing what they feel like.

What I think though is that it is not a mechanic aiming to limit playtime or addiction, but just a backup solution for botting - in case everything else fails, and a botter is not identified, at least there is only so much damage he can do.

That's why I -1 it.

[Tuanta 484]

-1 working as intended

[Theodis 339]

don't forget 1 important thing....

 

 

Wurm attracts THOSE type of players, because in general, it is made for them (Or maybe it's not, but the way it is right now, works perfectly for them) That's why a lot of us are here I'd say.  Wurm doesn't make things easy - it takes you by the hand.......And throws you off the cliff without a parachute.

[Alec 730]

No idea why people have this silly idea that time consuming equals difficult.  It's not; it's just time consuming.  Stop pretending like you're performing some kind of amazing feat.  The learning curve in wurm isn't because it has depth.  It's just because it has an obtuse interface that even for the most basic things like binding keys requires typing commands in a console.

 

Besides the obtuse interface and counter-intuitive(wogic)  is because you need to repeat a hundreds if not thousands time the same actions, and wait for those timers to end. If we did not have timers and skilling wasn't such a time consuming task, I think you could do everything that Wurm has to offer in a week of 6-8 hours playing per day.

 

Wurm actually have very little content, but the little it has is made in such a way that makes you play for years.

 

 

/offtopic

[Druidnature 1,118]

No idea why people have this silly idea that time consuming equals difficult.  It's not; it's just time consuming.  Stop pretending like you're performing some kind of amazing feat.  The learning curve in wurm isn't because it has depth.  It's just because it has an obtuse interface that even for the most basic things like binding keys requires typing commands in a console.

 

I'm not saying I hate wurm or anything.  I'm just not so deluded into thinking I'm challenging myself by dumping too much free time into it .  I wouldn't mind adding more depth to the simulation but anytime someone brings up a suggestion along those lines in the forums it gets attacked by people that want to keep their grind simple and straightforward with no interupptions.

 

But anyway.  I'm waaaaaay off topic now.  I'm all for removing fatigue.  Never hit it myself but I'm all for letting people decide how much gaming is too much for themselves and I doubt it helps that much with bots.

 

 

Nothing in all of history is difficult if time doesn't matter.  I can go buy a mansion, it's easy as baking a pie.  it only takes a bit more time.

[Theodis 339]

Nothing in all of history is difficult if time doesn't matter.  I can go buy a mansion, it's easy as baking a pie.  it only takes a bit more time.

What is more difficult?  Playing a game of chess against a grand master with a 10 second turn limit or a game of tic tac toe in which you wait a minmum of 1 day between moves?  Dragging things out doesn't make something trivial more complex but there are things which are genuinely more challenging even if they don't take as long.  Time can make some things more difficult but wurm is hardly any more an endurance test than most games are.  In fact because it's less mentally fatigueing and less of a test of fine tuned reflexes than many games it wouldn't make much of an endurance test compared to other more demanding games either because it's just simple repetative motions.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Theodis

[Druidnature 1,118]

spend 30 years learning chess, Is it difficult? guess not. 

 

 

Name one game that's difficult - and remember, you have infinity to redo any mistake you make the first time apparently....

 

See my point?  While you may not understand time in being difficult, it IS a part of the grand scheme of difficulty, without it.....your going to be missing a vital part. 

[Theodis 339]

spend 30 years learning chess, Is it difficult? guess not. 

 

 

Name one game that's difficult - and remember, you have infinity to redo any mistake you make the first time apparently....

 

See my point?  While you may not understand time in being difficult, it IS a part of the grand scheme of difficulty, without it.....your going to be missing a vital part. 

You're getting things backwards.  It's not the time spent that makes a game difficult, but yes a complex game takes more time to master.  The reverse doesn't hold up.  Just because you can spend 30 years playing tic tac toe doesn't make the game as deep as chess.  You can spend years upon years slowly raising numbers in wurm but it doesn't make the process involved difficult.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Theodis

[Druidnature 1,118]

You're getting things backwards.  It's not the time spent that makes a game difficult, but yes a complex game takes more time to master.  The reverse doesn't hold up.  Just because you can spend 30 years playing tic tac toe doesn't make the game as deep as chess.  You can spend years upon years slowly raising numbers in wurm but it doesn't make the process involved difficult.

 

Correct, But with time, do you not learn how to do things more better, faster, and overall easier on your life?

 

Even in wurm, which is just a game, you learn things with time - which will make things easier.

[Alec 730]

Even in wurm, which is just a game, you learn things with time - which will make things easier.

 

 

But even with that you can not deny that 70% of the difficulty of Wurm is the mindlessly grinding and timers, the other 10% the interface and the remaining 20% the actual game mechanics.

Tho' I would change the percentages on PvP servers.

 

 

So if we can shave off a bit by removing the totally useless fatigue mechanic, everything will be a tad easier.

[Zetuka 118]

+1 to remove it if it stays the way it is now, but i got a suggestion how to solve this problem while making the entire community happy:

 

I would suggest to add ale to the game, drinking ale would reset the fatigue level.

 

"You are really tired today, you need a boost !"

 

That way, we keep a system against bots and we get ale (which is awesome).

I am sure that people with a lot of playtime who reach the fatigue limit will have time to make ale, or to buy some. 

 

I don't think ale would be difficult to add here, probably just need to implement a new crop like hop.

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

+1 to remove it if it stays the way it is now, but i got a suggestion how to solve this problem while making the entire community happy:

 

I would suggest to add ale to the game, drinking ale would reset the fatigue level.

 

"You are really tired today, you need a boost !"

 

That way, we keep a system against bots and we get ale (which is awesome).

I am sure that people with a lot of playtime who reach the fatigue limit will have time to make ale, or to buy some. 

 

I don't think ale would be difficult to add here, probably just need to implement a new crop like hop.

[Steeloxide 146]

 "macroers only need to switch characters to circumvent it."

[Steeloxide 146]

Or coffee, I suppose. Restores 1min/ql/L So 90ql would give 1.5h fatigue per litre, 8L for a full bar.

All this would do is force the botters to gather "Ale" or "Coffee" before they go back to normal botting business - or just switch characters when they hit max like they probably already do.

I think the whole system needs to be changed / removed for something more effective.

Perhaps something along the lines of a CAPTCHA prompt popping up randomly at the end of actions from time to time - maybe around the same frequency as rare chances. If you try to avoid it too many times by logging off when the prompt appears, or fail the captcha too many times, your flagged and a GM can then do his sneaky detective work and determine if your actually a bot.

The prompt could be anything too from a simple word Captcha, to a short wurm themed minigame of some kind - something that a bot would not be able to accomplish. Maybe even offer a small reward for completing it (50iron or something) to make the random prompt less annoying for people who actually aren't bots.

 

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

All this would do is force the botters to gather "Ale" or "Coffee" before they go back to normal botting business - or just switch characters when they hit max like they probably already do.

I think the whole system needs to be changed / removed for something more effective.

Perhaps something along the lines of a CAPTCHA prompt popping up randomly at the end of actions from time to time - maybe around the same frequency as rare chances. If you try to avoid it too many times by logging off when the prompt appears, or fail the captcha too many times, your flagged and a GM can then do his sneaky detective work and determine if your actually a bot.

The prompt could be anything too from a simple word Captcha, to a short wurm themed minigame of some kind - something that a bot would not be able to accomplish. Maybe even offer a small reward for completing it (50iron or something) to make the random prompt less annoying for people who actually aren't bots.

 

Our existing botcheck is a multichoice question. Last one I got was:

Which of these is a colour?

Boat

Blue

Bird

Band

[Steeloxide 146]

Our existing botcheck is a multichoice question. Last one I got was:

Which of these is a colour?

Boat

Blue

Bird

Band

Ahh, I would think that would be sufficient then.

Im glad to see its not just fatigue system haha, I thought it was all the protection there was.

*Wipes brow*

 

Edited August 27, 2014 by Steeloxide

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

That's what I'm saying, though. If it was a matter of hitting fatigue > Question > Answer > Fatigue reset, I'd be gravy. That seems ideal

[silakka 2,360]

-1 for remove

but every system can always improve

 

I've personally never hit it, and for those people's health, I think a break is in place if you are getting close to cap

You don't have to spend all the time with actions queud, being premium is much more, like riding a horse to random places once awhile for fun.

I'm not a doctor nor i can tell you how to play your game and how to achieve fun, but reaching that cap is a nice warning bell.

[geode 292]

Its the game's way of telling you to... TAKE A BREAK!!!!

 

This. I want to see the 8 hour limit remain, even though I sometimes exceed it myself.

 

Most MMOs have had problems with Botters and the ONLY reason they leave is when game changes are put in that make it not worth their time money wise to keep botting. As long as Wurm is a game where Players can make money in it there will be Botters. A huge change to the Fatigue system won't bother the Botters much since they have a financial incentive to adapt, but it may cause real legitimate Players that play Wurm for fun and enjoyment a bunch of unnecessary headaches.

 

Leave the system as it is please.

Edited August 27, 2014 by geode

[Ruger 610]

Im pretty sure I have +1'd t his so Im going to just say...

 

bump

[darthryan 588]

+1. If someone has a whole weekend free, and wants to spend it grinding, then why not let them?

Doesn't effect lazy people like me, but I hear from my hardcore grinding friends it can be annoying.