Posted March 13 3 hours ago, Simyaci said: I'd be fine with it if opening it regularly (in a clumsy way) gave you regular rewards while opening it more professionaly with a lockpick gave you a chance to obtain some extra rewards based on what could already be inside those chests already, only from items that are in the regular opening pool. It could even be expanded to treasure chests and more. However, you'd still need to have a PvE skill alternative for the same purpose like what I've suggested and possibly more. WoW has craftable key alternative (and some other items with the same functionality) to lockpicking because only Rogues can lockpick. The PvP'ers in Wurm are similar to Rogues in WoW. They have the skill. Hundreds of people leveling the skill from nothing for that purpose would be like grinding a Rogue from scratch in WoW as an alt to lockpick your chests, due not having any alternative. WoW had a lot of Rogues both as mains and as alts. Even those who didn't play a Rogue often had a Rogue alt already. Yet still, WoW provided alternatives to lockpicking to open these lockpickable items. We don't have as many PvP'ers as WoW had Rogues in percentage and PvE players don't have as many PvP alts as WoW players had Rogue alts. Yet still, we should not have any alternative to lockpicking and let it monopolize content? I think it is a PvP should reign supreme over everything approach. It won't make PvP'ers out of PvE'ers, if that is a side goal. The reason why PvE players don't want to step foot in PvP is not because PvE doesn't have enough PvP in it, it is because PvP doesn't have enough PvP in it. Wurm PvP has always been all about eliminating competition, settling more land, choking enemy expansion and not leaving breathing space for new kingdoms to pop up. It is a big monopoly game board. I can't relate on how you think lockpicking is a PVP skill. It's not even an act against another player on it's own Lots of other games have lockpicking, just naming Skyrim as an example, where you can find locked chests when exploring the world (and I'm not talking about breaking into NPC houses). WoW like you mentioned also has those chests you can randomly find, either out in the world or as loot, and the skill there does not even have a use in PvP. Here is an example what you could do if you did not want to skill lockpicking yourself: you could ask someone to unlock a chest for you that you have found in the wild, just like you would have ask around for a rogue in WoW. This is similar to any other skill in Wurm that you do not have yourself but need for anything. However, I can totally imagine also being able to bash a chest instead of unlocking it, maybe with a chance to loose some loot, since, this is a rather violent approach. This might not even need a new skill line, as we already have weapons and fighting. 🤔 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 13 6 hours ago, Cayce said: ... Where exactly is lock picking used in PVE in wurm? I may be missing something. If the proposal is to have locked rare, supreme, and fantastic drops, with increasing difficulty, that's fine by me. The proposal though is more a discussion and less a proposal. Also WurmNode 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 13 (edited) 2 hours ago, Rustblade said: Where exactly is lock picking used in PVE in wurm? I may be missing something. If the proposal is to have locked rare, supreme, and fantastic drops, with increasing difficulty, that's fine by me. The proposal though is more a discussion and less a proposal. Also WurmNode 1.77 level Lockpicking guy managed to enter the top 50 NFI rating. LMAO! Chaos is pretty old so there are some 30 levels on the bottom in SFI. Look at the great masses of PvE Lockpicking enthusiasts! I was worried the OP could be wasting his time trying to promote a skill he was just starting to level up and feel excited about but I am glad my worries were misplaced. Edited March 13 by Simyaci Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 13 So what is the point to denigrate the proposal, and slander the OP? If you are against, leave a -1 and possibly a sensible argument, why not. Lockpicking is bit better off than Yoyo and Puppeteering which certainly are not "PvP skills". I like the idea to have containers you either break by bashing, with some loss of contents, or lockpick, retrieving everything. It needs not to be all loot on gob camps, and could be extended. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 Well that made me laugh. Anyway after giving some thoughts, got some ideas about expanding/alternatives to original point to accomodate alternative ways of opening. How about, chests that are dropped are not regular wooden small chests, but made out of metal and have a decorative look, preferably several looks like different metal candelabra, but looks wouldn't be determined on metal type but random and can be of any metal from iron, gold, other regular metals, to alloys and moonmetals in rare ocassions for collection purposes so the chest itself would be also valuable without content inside. And sure you can bash it with large maul like you would bash wardrobe, coffer or some other locked containers currently(don't know if you tried it in game, but it takes few hours, forgot if being ondeed makes some difference if does that would need to be taken into consideration as it should not be faster than lockpicking) to get content but as a trade of you loose the box. How that sound? However, in that case, other ingame containers that you can bash to get content of them when locked like wardrobes, large storage units, coffers (not sure what else can be bashed) be also lockpickable. I suppose people will wine about this too, but whats fair it's fair, you can't have it both ways, if you want alternative to lockpicking to be bashing, alternative to bashing should be lockpicking. And I strongly disclame this as i'm sure some people will get it wrong again, i'm not suggesting everything to become lockpickable just containers you can otherwise bash to get acces to it's content, as far as i know thats wardrobes, coffers, large storage units, nightstands a maybe few more. I'm not suggesting lockpicking wagons, carts, boats etc. (although mind you, you can lava them when they are locked to get access to content) just the locked containers you can currently bash. P.S. yeah, in case you didn't know, wurm is a mess of inconsistences of what can and can't be done on simmilar things Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 horrible idea Why.. it's purely pvp utility skill; it's really slow to grind(gated by enchants and huge timers, rng for gains); you need a lot of time and metegaming to get into it camps are pvE events lice similar to rift camps/etc if such spawn on pvp maps - sure, for pvE maps.. horrible idea 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 49 minutes ago, Finnn said: horrible idea Why.. it's purely pvp utility skill; it's really slow to grind(gated by enchants and huge timers, rng for gains); you need a lot of time and metegaming to get into it camps are pvE events lice similar to rift camps/etc if such spawn on pvp maps - sure, for pvE maps.. horrible idea Why is there a fixation on this being a pvp thing? It's only a "pvp skill" because it doesn't currently have any use on pve... so what's the problem with adding one? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Vorticella said: Why is there a fixation on this being a pvp thing? It's only a "pvp skill" because it doesn't currently have any use on pve... so what's the problem with adding one? That's because the ask is not to make it an alternative in many fields, but to make it a monopoly holder in one field. It is a big jump from being nothing in PvE to being everything in one narrow field in PvE. That is not very reasonable when PvE'ers have no skill in it, it is a slow skill to grind, the grind won't be producing anything useful, PvP'ers already have it, PvP'ers have already been using it and benefiting from it. On top of that, the OP vehemently opposes any PvE skill being an alternative to it in the fields it would start to be applied in PvE as a mandatory requirement. It comes out as ''I am already on top 3 with this skill, I've leveled it high already for my own reasons in an environment where it had no use in PvE while having significant impact in PvP, but now I want it to be put at the top of the food chain in some fields in PvE. Just put it there and I don't want any PvE skill to share the spot because while lockpicking has not been leveled in PvE and is a very rare skill overall, these skills are not as rare and had PvE utility even if they have not had been as profitable or beneficial over the years, so people who have high skill in them exist.'' Edited March 14 by Simyaci Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 1 hour ago, Vorticella said: Why is there a fixation on this being a pvp thing? It's only a "pvp skill" because it doesn't currently have any use on pve... so what's the problem with adding one? understanding the problem is big part of understanding the problem.... lookup lockpicking on the wiki, realize how slow and pitiful the process is.. try it.. realize how awful it is... then you understand once you hear other how it works and how it's grinded, how terrible you misunderstood it all and you now start to metagame and use calculators, enchants, certain ql and prayers to all gods to get gains, even with all that help and metagaming.. it's all gated by rng ticks and time delays to get skill gains you have speeddating with meditation's cousin but you just can't get out of this deal basically it's awful horrible idea 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 there's no good reason to gate loot behind lockpicking on pvE.. if nothing on pve uses it.. if it's suddenly introduced with variety of uses.. maybe... various events, various loots, proper balancing, fun for all and all that... maybe... sounds like proper balanced gg content introduced as loot rewards for 1 event.. likely a meta to reward pvpers on pve servers, which seems really weird, given there's nothing for pvE players to do on pvp maps if they don't want to pvp.. not even full ban of pvp during global casts +/- time around it to get safely out and have tickets handled, etc(borders eat boats and people sometimes) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 @Simyaciyou're starting to get to annoy me with I am in top 3 argument, i've played this game for 10+ years, not gonna appologize to someone because i have 90 skill. And this suggestion is not nothing massive i would dominate, it's just one miniscule aspect of once again one miniscule aspect of game. Your arguments could apply to meditation which seriously more benefits to someone with skill over someone without and it's painfully slower maybe, and no it has nothign to do with most people have high skill here, new players still doesnt. Hell it's not even that slow skin to grind just requires patience and good organization, i wasn't even trying that much, if i had i would probably have 100 by now. the fact that someone on NFI has it even higher then me proves that. And if skill had some benefits on freedom like i'm suggesting it wouldn't be the case that someone with 1.7 skill get in top 50 like you said. Both of you and @Finnn look to me like narrowminded people who has some beef with lockpicking and pvp and are looking for excuses in order to defend your prejudice instead of looking to things from other perspective, you both already stated you disagreement so i would kindly ask you to restrain yourself from future commenting on this thread. Not a single argument you provided had any stance but your own personal hatred towards lockpicking it seems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 (edited) And this is why i stopped and will stop again to post suggestions, as everytime you get into two stuborn clowns like you two to lose your nerves on, i guess it could be for other people too. If someone posted suggestion that with 90 yoyo skill you get a chance for a unique new item on preforming it, or pupettiring give some buffs based on skill i wouldn't cry against it cause i have 1 skill and some lucky dude has 90, i would sit and grind the skill if i'm interested in it. Put a ###### charcoal inside a box as a reward as far as i'm concered and i would still use the skill because i like using the skill, that's why i grinded it, and that's why i suggested this, so the skill has more use. Like it would kill you if this gets into game and other people enjoy it. If you're not interested don't use it and grind it plenty of other aspects of game. Edited March 14 by kochinac Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 It is strange how you say I have hatred against lockpicking when I've said couple of times that it should have a lot of uses in PvE as long as it doesn't gatekeep it, become sole mandatory requirement for it and a longstanding PvE skill or several of them share being the required utility for the content alongside lockpicking. You want all the meat but you can't take any heat, telling people to not comment under your topic because they are not nodding in agreement to your completely selfish suggestion, the immediate beneficiaries of which would be fewer than the number of fingers on two hands. I have no beef with PvP or lockpicking. I don't have a beef with you either. However, I can't see any good reason for lockpicking to gain monopoly in PvE all of a sudden when it had almost no presence before. It doesn't even have monopoly on locked boxes in WoW where you've inspired this idea from, so why do you want monopoly here when lockpicking is much less common here than in WoW? Anyone who offers a compromise is adding to the likelihood of your wishes becoming a reality. That is only true if your wish is for lockpicking to have relevancy in PvE, and not supremacy. I can't even see a good number of PvP'ers here who come to agree with you, probably because you are not willing to have a balanced result where there are alternatives and no monopoly. Your all or nothing approach increases the likelihood that it will be nothing, instead of something. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 Having monopoly is not an argument. What do you want me to do then, ask to lower my skill to 0 so i have to grind? And monopoly over what? like i said if you have put a ###### coal inside it, never said it has to be something groundbreaking valuable but that's not the point. People who had 90 beverages and gardening before coffe were at advantage when coffe came up, thats how things work. It happens that i have higher skill but what can i do about it, it not's an argument that idea is bad and it shouldn't be implemented. I think you overestimating argument thing. I doubt you have clue about grinding lockpicking and how time it takes, and i doubt you have expirience with it, at the end of the day don't 90 skill to open 90 lock it will just take longer with 50... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 6 minutes ago, kochinac said: Having monopoly is not an argument. What do you want me to do then, ask to lower my skill to 0 so i have to grind? And monopoly over what? like i said if you have put a ###### coal inside it, never said it has to be something groundbreaking valuable but that's not the point. People who had 90 beverages and gardening before coffe were at advantage when coffe came up, thats how things work. It happens that i have higher skill but what can i do about it, it not's an argument that idea is bad and it shouldn't be implemented. I think you overestimating argument thing. I doubt you have clue about grinding lockpicking and how time it takes, and i doubt you have expirience with it, at the end of the day don't 90 skill to open 90 lock it will just take longer with 50... it's NOT the same, you can grind either(beverages/gardening) super fast, vs a lot longer time to grind lockpicking, on top it's metagamed with lots of math, etc.. rng/delays.. suggest fix to the time it takes to grind lockpicking and sure, even ground, while there's huge gap in that.. it's imbalanced idea for the wrong cluster.. suggesting pvp skill to be used in pvE content, it's just weird, add events and more places to use the content, etc.. introduce it first to the cluster in some way.. not just top rewards in single newest content and you'll have warmer welcome for it, but new content.. rewards gated by pvp skill in pvE servers... weirdness all around, wrong place, time, etc.. such is the sense I get from this, that's all 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, kochinac said: Having monopoly is not an argument. What do you want me to do then, ask to lower my skill to 0 so i have to grind? And monopoly over what? like i said if you have put a ###### coal inside it, never said it has to be something groundbreaking valuable but that's not the point. People who had 90 beverages and gardening before coffe were at advantage when coffe came up, thats how things work. It happens that i have higher skill but what can i do about it, it not's an argument that idea is bad and it shouldn't be implemented. I think you overestimating argument thing. I doubt you have clue about grinding lockpicking and how time it takes, and i doubt you have expirience with it, at the end of the day don't 90 skill to open 90 lock it will just take longer with 50... Lockpicking being hard to grind and taking a long time to level up is making this much worse. It is very hard to obtain and you've already got it. You didn't grind it with the knowledge that it was going to be the sole mandatory requirement to access new content. You have a very high skill on it, you know the great majority of people don't have any skill in it, you know it takes very long to grind, you know it is mainly utilized in PvP and grinded by PvP players, and yet you want new content to be locked behind that skill knowing all of this. I didn't tell you to grind this skill, you've grinded it on your own and I don't want to be gatekept by it especially in PvE when it is a PvP skill. You give coffee as an example but it is a bad example. It is a bad example because beverages is an universal skill and people have already been leveling it in PvE. It is a bad example because coffee didn't benefit only the producer but also the user. Wanting loot to be locked and only openable with lockpicking so you with your 90 skill can open it and allow people to access it through you (only if you wish to sell and not keep to yourself and hoard forever) is not the same as the addition of coffee benefiting the beverages skill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 10 minutes ago, Finnn said: it's NOT the same, you can grind either(beverages/gardening) super fast, vs a lot longer time to grind lockpicking, on top it's metagamed with lots of math, etc.. rng/delays.. suggest fix to the time it takes to grind lockpicking and sure, even ground, while there's huge gap in that.. it's imbalanced idea for the wrong cluster.. suggesting pvp skill to be used in pvE content, it's just weird, add events and more places to use the content, etc.. introduce it first to the cluster in some way.. not just top rewards in single newest content and you'll have warmer welcome for it, but new content.. rewards gated by pvp skill in pvE servers... weirdness all around, wrong place, time, etc.. such is the sense I get from this, that's all and you can be constructive and suggest to remove timer on grinding lockpicking that i might have overlooked to improve suggestion instead of comming here and yelling horrible idea like you almost always do on peoples suggestions. but no, you have to be hating everything and acting like a jerk atttacking skill that it is pvp only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 13 minutes ago, Simyaci said: Wanting loot to be locked and only openable with lockpicking so you with your 90 skill can open it and allow people to access it through you (only if you wish to sell and not keep to yourself and hoard forever) is not the same as the addition of coffee benefiting the beverages skill. Again you're acting like it i don't know what kind of loot, it's all gonna be scale, tomes and gold inside(i'm ironic ofc), would be a chance to drop, probably won't do that much goblin camps so i won't get that many on my hand, not more then others, if they don't know what do to with them it will not benefit me, if they want to sell it to me or other people they will still get money so it will benefit them. Plenty of things is locked behind other skill, the fact that's harder to grind has nothing to do with it. Peope will get skills faster than you think if reward is good. You are strawmaning me for no reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 (edited) Like you're saying all other people who would enjoy content can have it cuz I have 90 skill and your hyper fixation on conspiracy theory that I will get unhealthy rich out of it Edited March 14 by kochinac Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 (edited) It is even worse if you don't get rich out of it but hoard all the items in 100 large magical chests on your deed just to look at them everyday. It will be up to you to whether keep it, sell it or bury it. The content will be gatekept behind the few who has the skill while there are a lot more people playing the game. It has nothing to do with getting rich, it has to do with a broken system which only benefits the few in the beginning while taking a very very very veeeeeeeeery long time to start benefiting anyone else. It is not even just benefit, it is a solid lock on content that only lockpickers can open. It is like a DLC that is locked behind money but instead of real money it is locked behind the lockpicking skill. Only few people have lockpicking high. It will take forever for anyone else to reach high levels on it even if they somehow learn exactly how they need to lvl it and be willing to do it. A DLC locked behind money at least funds the further development of a game or a sequel while not making the content available to everyone for free. When locked behind lockpicking, it doesn't fund the game, it doesn't benefit the hundreds to thousands of people playing the game. It only benefits 4-5 people who already went nuts on leveling it, while not making the content available to everyone just like a cash locked DLC. Edited March 14 by Simyaci Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14 26 minutes ago, kochinac said: and you can be constructive and suggest to remove timer on grinding lockpicking that i might have overlooked to improve suggestion instead of comming here and yelling horrible idea like you almost always do on peoples suggestions. but no, you have to be hating everything and acting like a jerk atttacking skill that it is pvp only There were some constructive suggestions, but all I heard was crickets on your part, you just called us stubborn clowns for not agreeing unconditionally to every stupid or unbalanced proposal that comes up on the forums, and they are many. The mere fact that we are sidetracked so much speaks volumes for the viability and fate of this proposal. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
