Cartography navigation

[Vorticella 958]

22 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

use a dioptra on any astral object and it'll tell you what region of the map you're in

 

Woah! I had no idea about this! Just tried it, very cool So yeah just as you said, this suggestion really just adds a visual effect and skill to something we can pretty much do already. But it would also provide good motivation for players to engage with the cartography system.

[Ame 99]

12 hours ago, Dao said:

 

That is why they sailed along the coast on ships not intended for the open sea. 🤣

You didnt know vikings found America, Greenland, Iceland?

[Muse 2,232]

I think this is a really good suggestion @Vorticella

 

I think it could mean the difference between a lost player leaving the game due to bewilderment and frustration, or actually staying in game until he has found his feet.

 

As with all features like this, it should be activated for new players, but selectable/de-selectable by everyone, so that the experienced players can still choose to navigate by their wits.

[TheTrickster 2,290]

13 minutes ago, Ame said:

You didnt know vikings found America, Greenland, Iceland?

Oh, no, apparently they did all that without leaving sight of land, or at least only being out of sight of land too briefly to get lost.  It was at that point I reached for the "ignore" button so I couldn't tell you what else - but apparently historians are still pondering Viking oceanic navigation methods for no reason at all.

[TheTrickster 2,290]

Okay, I view a post to see what someone else was quoting about and saw this.

 

3 hours ago, Dao said:

That's why I didn't say anything to TheTrickster. Because he did not get out, but directly said "I do not want any cartography, I want a vulgar GPS with clear details."

@Dao You have used quotes here to specifically claim  that I "directly said" something that I did not ever say.  Please apologise for your lie and retract it.

 

EDIT:  By the way, I am on record as having suggested cartography mechanics and having spoken against GPS-like mechanics.  So in fact what I have directly said is exactly the opposite of what you have dishonestly claimed.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by TheTrickster

[Vorticella 958]

1 hour ago, Muse said:

I think this is a really good suggestion @Vorticella

 

I think it could mean the difference between a lost player leaving the game due to bewilderment and frustration, or actually staying in game until he has found his feet.

 

As with all features like this, it should be activated for new players, but selectable/de-selectable by everyone, so that the experienced players can still choose to navigate by their wits.

 

This wouldn't help brand new players since it's part of cartography and those tools are not really accessible in the early game. It's for experienced and well established explorers, not fresh survivors. The skill has to be learned by practicing cartography, so while it's not there for beginners, it is something for them to work towards which adds to the sense of progression as one gets deeper into the game and becomes capable of more things.

 

Remember we are not talking about any kind of "GPS" system contrary to what Dao keeps insisting. This would be done by performing a skill-based action, so anyone who sees this location indicator is intentionally making it happen. Just as we already have the option to use the dioptra to estimate our location, as I learned today  

 

If the location indicator is small enough to be of any real help, it's only because the player has dedicated enough time and effort to gain the skills for it, and bothers to carry the tools around to use those skills. Nobody will have this showing up on their map if they don't want it

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Vorticella

[Coach 196]

20 hours ago, Vorticella said:

This action would not be game changing in any real way,

Disagree.

 

20 hours ago, Vorticella said:

but it would still give us motivation to learn the skill.

Agree.

 

20 hours ago, Vorticella said:

This action would not be game changing in any real way, but it would still give us motivation to learn the skill.

Why would it give us motivation to learn the skill?

Because the action would be game changing in real way IMO.

And a game changing decision can heavily affect the motivation to play this game.

 

1 hour ago, TheTrickster said:

4 hours ago, Dao said:

That's why I didn't say anything to TheTrickster. Because he did not get out, but directly said "I do not want any cartography, I want a vulgar GPS with clear details."

@Dao You have used quotes here to specifically claim  that I "directly said" something that I did not ever say.  Please apologise for your lie and retract it.

Uh oh.

[Vorticella 958]

1 hour ago, Coach said:

Why would it give us motivation to learn the skill?

Because the action would be game changing in real way IMO.

And a game changing decision can heavily affect the motivation to play this game.

 

That's a fair point, I guess it's a bit subjective how game changing it would be. I don't personally feel like I need the location ability because I mentally keep track of my position, use the highway system, and follow along with external maps as I go. It would be just slightly more convenient in some circumstances to get a rough location estimate using only in-game tools. Since the in game maps are so vague, we'll still use the detailed external maps and have to watch deeds, landmarks etc as we currently do to find exact locations. That's why I feel it's not significantly game changing, but enough to make the skill compelling.

 

But this is just my perspective, in what way do you think this would be significantly game changing?

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Vorticella

[Dao 145]

8 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

 

@Dao You have used quotes here to specifically claim  that I "directly said" something that I did not ever say.  Please apologise for your lie and retract it.

 

EDIT:  By the way, I am on record as having suggested cartography mechanics and having spoken against GPS-like mechanics.  So in fact what I have directly said is exactly the opposite of what you have dishonestly claimed.  

 

 

Spoiler

just backup copy

 

@Dao You have used quotes here to specifically claim  that I "directly said" something that I did not ever say.  Please apologise for your lie and retract it.

 

EDIT:  By the way, I am on record as having suggested cartography mechanics and having spoken against GPS-like mechanics.  So in fact what I have directly said is exactly the opposite of what you have dishonestly claimed.  

 

Oh really?

 

Let's read together.

 

Spoiler

just backup copy

 

I am in two minds about this.

 

I think map-reading is a genuine skill, so to me it makes sense for a character's skill in that area to be meaningful.  On the other hand, map reading is not map making.  Cartography is map making.  IRL, I have pretty good map reading skill and exceedingly pathetic map making skill.

 

I think that as map reading improves, the in-game map should give the player (who is the driver of the character) better feedback.  I don't like the blue shading from treasure hunting for that.  I think the "I am know I am somewhere in here) area should be reasonably brightly lit and decently coloured while the area beyond that should be slightly dimmer and definitely greyer.

 

I don't like cartography in-game.  I think it lacks practical use, requires too much "high skill" gear for starter carters, and created more items that have no function other than as components of this system.  I would like to have seen player-made maps able to be incorporated into their in-game map when it is displayed.  Like an overlay with more detail than just markers.  Possibly zoomable as a pop-out inset map.

 

I like salami, but have no idea what it has to do with this suggestion.

 

 

17 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

I think map-reading is a genuine skill, so to me it makes sense for a character's skill in that area to be meaningful.  On the other hand, map reading is not map making.  Cartography is map making.  IRL, I have pretty good map reading skill and exceedingly pathetic map making skill.

 

 

It's just rubbish to show everyone your erudition and put yourself in the advantageous position of being "smarter". It has nothing to do with the topic.

 

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17 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

I think that as map reading improves, the in-game map should give the player (who is the driver of the character) better feedback.  I don't like the blue shading from treasure hunting for that.  I think the "I am know I am somewhere in here) area should be reasonably brightly lit and decently coloured while the area beyond that should be slightly dimmer and definitely greyer.

 

This is also just rubbish to express your off-topic opinion that nobody cares about. You just wanted someone to pay attention to it.

 

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17 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

I like salami, but have no idea what it has to do with this suggestion.

 

This is just a primitive attempt to troll me. Not even worth a reaction.

 

17 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

EDIT:  The more I think on it, the more I think this would be a great addition (although not the blue circle, please).  

The same

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Now we have moved on to the main part of the post. This part is short as always.

 

17 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

I don't like cartography in-game.  I think it lacks practical use, requires too much "high skill" gear for starter carters, and created more items that have no function other than as components of this system.

 

Doesn't that mean "I don't want cartography"? Or does it have some other meaning? For example, "I don't like cartography, but I really want it. In order to suffer with "too much "high skill" gear and items that have no function" "?  So you didn't say it or is it a substitution of concepts?

 

And now the most important thing.

 

17 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

I would like to have seen player-made maps able to be incorporated into their in-game map when it is displayed.  Like an overlay with more detail than just markers.  Possibly zoomable as a pop-out inset map.

 

Like this?

 

You just described a vulgar minimap from any vulgar MMORPG.

 

Doesn't that mean "I want a vulgar GPS with clear details"? Maybe the minimap is not an analogue of the GPS?  Or "the minimap is not a GPS because it's called a minimap and not a GPS"?

 

So you didn't say it or is it a substitution of concepts?

 

And if this is a substitution of concepts, then "were you lying then, or are you lying now"(c)

 

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Let's move on to the conclusions. Are you going to insist that you never said such a thing? Or is it all about QUOTES? What next, you say that the quote isn't correct because I highlighted it in red, while you didn't write in red?

 

And finally, I will do the same as you did. Please apologize for your lie and retract it.

 

 

P.S. Do you have a personal grudge against me? It's your problem. Do you want to troll me? It's your right. I will not run to complain and I will not ask the moderators to delete your posts, as they delete mine. But I also know about the existence of Aristotle's Sophistical Refutations and Karel Capek's Twelve Techniques of Literary Controversy and know how to use these techniques as well as you. And this is my right.

 

P.S.S. To the moderators. It is neither morally nor professionally ethical to remove the posts of one of the participants in the controversy due to personal preferences.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Dao

[TheTrickster 2,290]

Sorry, folks.  Trying to take it to PM.

[Coach 196]

14 hours ago, Vorticella said:

in what way do you think this would be significantly game changing?

No, the focus should be on what makes people lose their motivation to play this game in order to know what motivate people to play this game.

 

5 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Sorry, folks.  Trying to take it to PM.

Good luck. BTW, does the thread below helps? I might want to try.

 

[Vorticella 958]

2 hours ago, Coach said:

No, the focus should be on what makes people lose their motivation to play this game in order to know what motivate people to play this game.

 

Looking at why players don't engage with new content IS focusing on what makes people lose motivation to play the game. This suggestion is about making recently added content more engaging, which helps give players fresh motivation to play.

 

It was that "Still waiting for content..." thread that lead me to start this topic. People keep talking as though the devs haven't added anything in ages but this simply isn't true. They have added new things, but still get complaints about no new content. I wondered why that is, and it seems to me that if the new content isn't engaging enough, it's quickly forgotten and players feel like there's nothing new even though there is. So what could make the new content compelling? This was one thing that came to mind with what seems to me like a fairly straightforward solution.

[Coach 196]

6 hours ago, Vorticella said:

Looking at why players don't engage with new content IS focusing on what makes people lose motivation to play the game.

Looking at why players don't engage with the old content IS focusing on what makes people mainly lose motivation to play the game.
They can stick to the old content which motivate them, if they don't engage with the new content. I haven't even touched the new holy sites content but i am still playing.
Although some new content could affect on how people engage with the old content, that's why need to think twice before adding it.

 

6 hours ago, Vorticella said:

People keep talking as though the devs haven't added anything in ages but this simply isn't true.

Agree.

 

6 hours ago, Vorticella said:

So what could make the new content compelling?

If we are the all the same.

[Aetheldred 2]

+1 Cartograhy is pretty useless now. Though I would prefer to be able to locate yourself *only* in areas you have mapped, else people will grind the skill once and done.

Also the game doesn't take place in our own reality, and it is "urealistic" in a thousand ways, so using "But, but on our history!!" arguments is dead from the start.